Sixteen years... back to the basics

[learnin]

From Kolar's book - pages 228-229:

"It would take a year before the black and red Essentials brand
jacket Patsy was photographed wearing was finally delivered to
them. It was frustrating. The clothing articles seemed to trickle
into their office a piece or two at a time. In one instance, a sweater
– that Patsy was said to be wearing under the jacket – was
delivered that looked like it had just come off the shelf of a retail
clothing store. The fold marks were crisp and clearly present,
suggesting it had never been worn.

Trujillo advised me that lab technicians had identified eight
different types of fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape used to
cover JonBenét’s mouth. They included red acrylic, gray acrylic,
and red polyester fibers that were subsequently determined by
laboratory examination to be microscopically and chemically
consistent to each other, as well as to fibers taken from Patsy
Ramsey’s Essentials jacket.

Further, fibers from this jacket were also matched to trace
fibers collected from the wrist ligature, neck ligature, and
vacuumed evidence from the paint tray and Wine Cellar floor.

Some intruder theorists thought that the transfer of Patsy’s
jacket fibers to the duct tape may have taken place after John had
removed it from JonBenét’s face, and placed it on the white
blanket in the cellar. They believed it possible that prior contact
taking place between the blanket and jacket could account for the
transfer of these fibers to the tape.

Lab technicians had conducted experiments with the same
brand of duct tape, by attempting to lift trace fibers from the
blanket recovered in the Wine Cellar. Direct contact was made in
different quadrants of the blanket. There was some minimal
transfer of jacket fibers made to the tape during this exercise, but
Trujillo told me lab technicians didn’t think that this type of
transfer accounted for the number of jacket fibers that had been
found on the sticky side of the tape. It was thought that direct
contact between the jacket and tape was more likely the reason for
the quantity of fibers found on this piece of evidence.

BPD investigators looked to the other jacket fibers found in
the Wine Cellar, in the paint tray, and on the cord used to
bind JonBenét as physical evidence that linked Patsy with the
probable location of her daughter’s death – the basement hallway
and Wine Cellar.

The paint tray was reported to have been moved to the
basement about a month prior to the kidnapping, and investigators
doubted that Patsy would have been working on art projects
while wearing the dress jacket. The collection of jacket fibers from
all of these different locations raised strong suspicions about her
involvement in the crime.

Investigators also learned that fibers collected from the
interior lining of the Essentials jacket did not match control samples
from the sweater that had been provided to police by Ramsey
attorneys. Investigators thought that this suggested she had been
wearing some other article of clothing beneath the jacket."

Sounds as if she (PR) might have torn the tape and stuck it to her jacket while she finished doing something else. I've done this before with duct tape. Tear a piece off and stick it to my shirt so it's ready when I want to place it.

 

[wengr]

Sounds as if she (PR) might have torn the tape and stuck it to her jacket while she finished doing something else. I've done this before with duct tape. Tear a piece off and stick it to my shirt so it's ready when I want to place it.

Yes. A very natural thing to do when you need both hands to manipulate something you intend to apply the tape to.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Hi ILTBP - I thought of those trophies too. I also thought about the kitchen.
So many places where an item would be found to cause the head bash. Did we ever see a list of BR's Christmas presents? We're they fighting over one of the new toys that could have been used?
The BPD sure fell short on what should have been done; Like JR disappearing for
2 hours. This case should be reopened and all that has been sealed should be presented. BR's medical records alone would probably be a shocker. I just have the feeling there was a lot of jealousy towards JB. I think the cost of re-opening the case is what is holding back, and that they don't want to go up against Lin Wood.
Not to change the subject, but I wonder sometimes if any of the family, or friends read here. If they do and one of them caused her death or was an accessory, I don't know how they can live with the burden of what they did.
I would guess that they would prefer for people to put the blame on PR, and if she carried secrets to her grave we will never know.

Steve Thomas thought Pasty had inflicted the head bash in the bathroom, and James Kolar thought it happened in the kitchen.



Forget about Burke. If he had injured JonBenet he can not be charged. He missed that by three weeks. I take Burk out of the staging and murder of JonBenet. If it was Pasty and/or John, there is that cross pointing defense that still is in play, with John blaming a dead Pasty.

James Kolar laid out how to bring this case to trial, but I don't think it ever will happen. Alex Hunter and several others in LE believed Pasty did it, but Hunter said if there was a grand jury indictment he would not follow though on it.

John Ramsey's money and standing was what was keeping LE at bay. Some think John worth was seven million dollars, but Steve Thomas said John was worth between thirty and forty million dollars. With that kind of money a lot of promises can be made and keep mouths shut.

I still lean toward Pasty ,but I do have to put John into play somewhere in there because of his shirt fibers.

I think John found her at eleven that morning like he told JAR,MR, and SL when John had them brought to Boulder during a kidnapping.
I think John unstaged some of what Pasty had done. He unstaged the broken window earlier that morning when he said he had broken it when he couldn't get in the house. So he kicked it and unlatched it and slid in after stripping down to his underwear and socks. As he stood before that basement window he had a window and door to his left that led right in the main floor of the house that he could broken into.

 

[Nom de plume]

I am in the process of rereading all the books I can find on this case. I just finished ST's book. This is something I don't remember from before. This one sentence changes everything for me. It might not rule out PR & BR as an abuser, but there has to be a grown male that was abusing her. Even if many others had slept in that bedroom, surely with JBR's bedwetting and soiling issues, all of the bedding would have been washed at some point after others had slept there. Like so much other evidence in this case, DNA testing was probably never done. How in the world do you ignore that kind of evidence in the bedroom of a dead 6 yr old that had been molested? That one piece of evidence could have solved the whole case.


"They were also looking for traces of semen, and in the victim's bedroom, ultraviolet light showed stains on the bed and surrounding carpet."

JonBenet" Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas pg 44

I am now back to my original theory that PR caught JR molesting JBR and either swung at JR & missed, or blamed JBR & hit her intentionally. Both would have something to hide, and a reason to cover for the other. :moo:

 

[Darlene733510]

No DNA testing when a child has been sexually molested, is a totally derelection of duty.
No wonder nobody was ever charged by the GJ. if somehow they did put the blame on. BR, they knew no charges would be made because of his age. Surely LW knew that and may have concocted whatever was presented to the GJ. What did he cars. JB was dead, and he could go on milking the money man. Then with PR'S death some think that if she did it she would never talk or be charged. That takes me back to one person.....JR.

 

[UKGuy]

Sorry for the lateness of this reply. I don't think Haney's question, about the laundry room, was a trick because he followed it up with the following: If JBR was doing something cute, acting cute, would you (PR) run up stairs and get the camera? This question seems legitimate because, if PR never took a pic there, then, there's no reason to lie. If she did take a pic there, she would have to admit it unless it was obscene or something.

As another poster said, it sounds like someone had a unnatural fascination for JBR. Now, who would do their fooling around down in the basement?

learnin,
Haney's questions are intended to lock Patsy into a particular version of events, this is why he asked "would you (PR) run up stairs and get the camera?", etc.

Patsy might have no reason to lie, but she might want to profess ignorance, so that at a later date, somone else can say maybe these are the intruders pictures?

It appears from the line of questioning, that either the pictures are someone elses secret stash, or they have been dumped, out of context, into the basement?

Haney appears to be attempting to rule out an innocent reason for the pictures being found in the basement?

But alike other interviews there seem to be no follow up questions to say Burke or John.

.

 

[SunVenus]

Hi everyone! Sorry I have been absent lately, work & health & family stuff have been keeping me busy. I'm still reading here, and still thinking, and I love the insights you are all coming up with. Right now I am re-reading all police/interview transcripts with the Rs and close assosciates, etc. and as ever, more & more inconsistencies pop up. I'll present some more questions when I have time to sit down and think clearly, in the meantime, my heart-felt thanks to all of you on this thread & others for not fogetting about this injustice! I appreciate each and every one of you and your thoughts, even if I don't always agree.

Be well & happy, have a lovely 2013!

 

[SunVenus]

As with many Autism disorders, Asberger's has a WIDE range of symptoms that manifest. That is why it is sometimes referred to as the "Autism Spectrum". Some people are far more impacted than others. Most are very high functioning, and other than possibly being socially awkward or reclusive, you would not know they suffered from it. But some are very debilitated by it. You can't compare BR to other people who have Asberger's.

Okay, I must jump in here. I also have Asperger's Syndrome, (or as it will now be known in DSM-5, Autism Spectrum Disorder). It has been hard for me in some ways, but a great gift in others. Mine takes the form of having to have certain things set in a controlled environment-- the level of light, sound, and "security" (for lack of a better term). If I don't have that, I go into anxiety mode and can run the gamut from withdrawl, to panic mode to having to "escape"-- get to a safe place. I am high functioning, and one of the benefits is that I have an exceptional ability at fact accumulation & recall, reading comprehension & langauge. (Hence my being 46 and back in uni yet again, to pursue yet another field of study.) My nephew and stepdad have it as well, and they react similarly to some things as I, but not precisely the same as me or having the same needs as me. As you said, Aspergers can run in a wide-range of symptomology & affect.

Asperger's can be hard on youngsters, and some of our behaviours can seem odd or inappropriate. I never acted out in the ways others here have recounted, never been violent, etc. I did act out, but in other ways, such as being very overly effusive (trying to fit in and failing) or robotic (my more normal way of expression in strange situations or around strangers), and when I was very young, I had "tantrums". (And back then they didn't recognise that Autism could be a spectrum disorder, so I was labelled a "bad kid" for a long time, even though I was far, far ahead of most of my age-mates in schoolwork). My "tantrums" were of the crying variety, and even though I had the vocabulary to express many things, it was mostly unable to express what I was feeling emotionally-- I couldn't translate my feelings of fear from over-stimulation or excitement or strange environment into a way that could be understood clearly by others. Normal people-- my parents-- would not see any threat, and thought I was simply seeking attention. I still have a hard time with this, on many levels. There is social awkwardness even now after years of therapy & emotional coaching and so forth, and I still tend to misread non-verbal cues and take things that are said to me very literally & can visually "see" what someone is talking about. (Which is extremely funny when someone tells a really good joke or story-- they are even funnier to me than they are to others.) I also tend to be very anal-retentive about the use of words at times, which suits me well in my historical & religious studies field of research, but sometimes makes me a nuisance in public (For example when a newscaster says "decimate" to indicate a broad-scale massacre rather than it's proper usage to refer to the Roman punishment of killing one out of every ten soldiers for dereliction of duty and the like. I go into rant mode and do the math to prove that it wasn't "decimation". ) And I have some of the odder ASD symptoms; strange gait, body awkwardness & physical control, and the need for speech therapy (although I could read at a university level in grade school, I had a horrible lisp when speaking.)

My point is, there is a lot of speculation that Burke may have Aspergers. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. If he does and he was responsible in some form for the death and/or prior abuses of JB, I don't know that it was the Aspergers that played the key part. IMO, the whole dynamic of that family was sick, sick, sick. There were unreasonable pressures put on the children, the family had an unwholesome attitude towards "apperances" but lacked any substance or integrity in the ways that count to "normal" people, and they clearly had that disgusting "self-entitled" attitude that prevails amongst a few in our western culture of white bias & Christian bias. I am not excusing BR if he was involved, but merely saying that as Apergers is the "diagnosis du jour", it doesn't mean that it was necessarily the prime factor in any hand he had in JBs abuse, murder and the ongoing cover-up.

Edited to add: I'm apologise DeeDee if it seems like was attacking or disagreeing with you. Mea culpa. What I meant to do is clarify and enhance what you said with some personal experience. I appreciate the fact that you made the points about how Aspergers can manifest differently in "sufferers" (I dislike that term, sure it can suck, but it can give benefits as well) and how we honestly don't know if BR has it, or if he does, that it was in any way relevent to his sister's death.

 

[SunVenus]

What I was thinking is that Lockheed deals in military stuff, ( I think anyway, correct me if I am wrong) And maybe there was some dealings on an international level with people who aren't very nice. People who wouldn't hesitate to behead or torture people.

Here is something I have been thinking about. The brutality of the murder gives me the gut feeling that the parents couldn't have done it. However I believe they are involved at least to the point that they know who did it and have a reason not to tell.

What do you guys think about someone having gone there with the intent to murder her; that would explain a head bash and a garote;and ten the kidnapping was just part of the coverup.

Glad to see you joining the discussion Alchemist!

I do want to chime in on the alleged Lockheed connection. I have a family memebr who was head of security in one of the western US states at a major Lockheed research facility-- they just retired a year ago. Trust me, Lockheed doesn't deal with "small potatoes" companies like Access Graphics to the point that they'd send in thugs to revenge themselves upon a naughty sub-contractor. If we want to go into (forgive me for being flippant, I intend no disrespect) "tin foil hat" territory, let's pretend Access Graphics was a CIA front or cover-company. (Unlikely). It would be ludicrous to imagine spooks taking out a child and arranging to pin the murder on the parents through a carefully hoaxed crime scene for business reasons, or even national security reasons, or covert ops shenanigans. It's not likely-- certainly they have other ways to bring "outlaws" into line, and they'd rely on a far more simple method-- they'd have ruined JRs reputation in business or gone after him personally. An outsider killing JBR as "punishment" would have been a dicey & uncertain move-- it didn't affect their sphere of influence, i.e. business, financial, or JR's social standing and later politcal ambitions. If it was black ops plot against the principle target (JR), it failed. (Other than a child tragically died.) Does that make sense? I hope I am expressing this in a clear manner.

So: if you hear hoofbeats, expect horses, not zebras.

IMO, JBR's abuse & murder has all the hallmarks of a sick family dynamic, perpetrated & clumsily covered by self-entitled, self-obsessed R's, and aided by a mostly incompetent (not ST or JK, they were good and so were a few others) police & DA's office. No intruders, no secret paedophile or satanic sex rings, no CIA shenanigans-- just the sad fact that sometimes people-- even good people (or creeps like the Rs)-- really crack and break. A look at family murder statistics easily demonstrates this.

 

[DeeDee249]

I am in the process of rereading all the books I can find on this case. I just finished ST's book. This is something I don't remember from before. This one sentence changes everything for me. It might not rule out PR & BR as an abuser, but there has to be a grown male that was abusing her. Even if many others had slept in that bedroom, surely with JBR's bedwetting and soiling issues, all of the bedding would have been washed at some point after others had slept there. Like so much other evidence in this case, DNA testing was probably never done. How in the world do you ignore that kind of evidence in the bedroom of a dead 6 yr old that had been molested? That one piece of evidence could have solved the whole case.


"They were also looking for traces of semen, and in the victim's bedroom, ultraviolet light showed stains on the bed and surrounding carpet."

JonBenet" Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas pg 44

I am now back to my original theory that PR caught JR molesting JBR and either swung at JR & missed, or blamed JBR & hit her intentionally. Both would have something to hide, and a reason to cover for the other. :moo:

Testing was done on the stains. They were determined to be urine. BUT- that doesn't mean they did DNA testing. They tested the substance to determine what it was, but may not have tested to see who it belonged to.
The only semen found was dried on the comforted/duvet/blanket that was found in the suitcase in the basement (along with a Dr. Seuss book) and that semen was found to belong to JAR.
The bedding on JB's bed was changed almost daily, as she wet the bed almost every night. When shown crime photos of her bed, there was a set of "Beauty & the Beast" sheets on it, and the housekeeper said they were not the sheets she put on the last time she was there- on December 23, the day of the Rs Christmas party. Patsy had to have changed the sheets at least once after that, on the 24th or 25th. The bed was found to have been made up without that white blanket which JB's body was wrapped in. The foot section was still perfectly made, and there was no way to have pulled that blanket off the bed leaving the foot section still neatly made. Police pointed out this very thing to Patsy during their interview. The Rs had maintained that the intruder pulled JB from her bed wrapped in the blanket. Police explained to Patsy why that was impossible.

 

[Nom de plume]

Testing was done on the stains. They were determined to be urine. BUT- that doesn't mean they did DNA testing. They tested the substance to determine what it was, but may not have tested to see who it belonged to.
The only semen found was dried on the comforted/duvet/blanket that was found in the suitcase in the basement (along with a Dr. Seuss book) and that semen was found to belong to JAR.
The bedding on JB's bed was changed almost daily, as she wet the bed almost every night. When shown crime photos of her bed, there was a set of "Beauty & the Beast" sheets on it, and the housekeeper said they were not the sheets she put on the last time she was there- on December 23, the day of the Rs Christmas party. Patsy had to have changed the sheets at least once after that, on the 24th or 25th. The bed was found to have been made up without that white blanket which JB's body was wrapped in. The foot section was still perfectly made, and there was no way to have pulled that blanket off the bed leaving the foot section still neatly made. Police pointed out this very thing to Patsy during their interview. The Rs had maintained that the intruder pulled JB from her bed wrapped in the blanket. Police explained to Patsy why that was impossible.

Thanks for the correction DD. Do you know when this testing was done? I watched for some further reference to this in ST's book and never saw it addressed again. I wonder why he didn't make that clear? (Maybe he did and I just missed it.) I'm just getting into Kolar's book, so maybe it's in there.

 

[Nom de plume]

This is something I've never considered before. It just occurred to me.

For the sake of argument, let's say that JBR had her last beverage no later than 9:00 pm at the party. (She could have had tea with her pinapple snack closer to 10:00 pm, but her prints were not on the tea glass.) If she was asleep when the Rs arrived home, which I doubt, would PR have put her to bed before visiting the bathroom? Or would she have awakened JBR to reduce the chance of an accident? Either way, I'm betting that JBR used the bathroom before she was put to bed that night. Plus wouldn't a parent of a child with a bed wetting problem limit the intake of fluids late in the evening?

Here are my questions:
1. If she emptied her bladder before she went to bed, and at the time of death, is it possible that she could have had an accident in between say 10:00 pm and estimated TOD at 1:00 am?

2. If she did not use the bathroom before bed around 10:00 pm, and did have an accident later, could she have had enough left in her bladder at the estimated TOD 1:00 am to release urine at death?

I'm wondering about this in relation to the "PR lost control due to an accident" theory, and thinking it makes it a less likely scenario. Any experts on the subject out there?

 

[midwest mama]

Testing was done on the stains. They were determined to be urine. BUT- that doesn't mean they did DNA testing. They tested the substance to determine what it was, but may not have tested to see who it belonged to.
The only semen found was dried on the comforted/duvet/blanket that was found in the suitcase in the basement (along with a Dr. Seuss book) and that semen was found to belong to JAR.
The bedding on JB's bed was changed almost daily, as she wet the bed almost every night. When shown crime photos of her bed, there was a set of "Beauty & the Beast" sheets on it, and the housekeeper said they were not the sheets she put on the last time she was there- on December 23, the day of the Rs Christmas party. Patsy had to have changed the sheets at least once after that, on the 24th or 25th. The bed was found to have been made up without that white blanket which JB's body was wrapped in. The foot section was still perfectly made, and there was no way to have pulled that blanket off the bed leaving the foot section still neatly made. Police pointed out this very thing to Patsy during their interview. The Rs had maintained that the intruder pulled JB from her bed wrapped in the blanket. Police explained to Patsy why that was impossible.

Just going over PMPT, pgs 728-729, and Hoffman-Pugh was relating the info about JB's sheets and blanket being washed in the laundry facility on the same floor as her bedroom. She speculated that only the Ramsey's would have known JB's blanket might have been in that dryer, since the machines were in a cabinet.

I previously thought the blanket came from the basement machine, possibly discovered there while a stager was looking for cleanup materials after an assault occurring in the basement.

I wonder now if the cleanup and redressing took place in JB's bathroom/bedroom, and she was wrapped into her blanket before being carried downstairs.

 

[UKGuy]

Just going over PMPT, pgs 728-729, and Hoffman-Pugh was relating the info about JB's sheets and blanket being washed in the laundry facility on the same floor as her bedroom. She speculated that only the Ramsey's would have known JB's blanket might have been in that dryer, since the machines were in a cabinet.

I previously thought the blanket came from the basement machine, possibly discovered there while a stager was looking for cleanup materials after an assault occurring in the basement.

I wonder now if the cleanup and redressing took place in JB's bathroom/bedroom, and she was wrapped into her blanket before being carried downstairs.

midwest mama,
Absolutely. Add in the bloodstain on her pillow, those soiled pajama bottoms on her floor, Burke Ramsey's touch-dna being found on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, the white longjohns.

All this stuff originates from upstairs, which suggests JonBenet's bedroom as the primary crime-scene?


.

 

[summerthyme]

midwest mama,
Absolutely. Add in the bloodstain on her pillow, those soiled pajama bottoms on her floor, Burke Ramsey's touch-dna being found on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, the white longjohns.

All this stuff originates from upstairs, which suggests JonBenet's bedroom as the primary crime-scene?


.

So the weapon was likely where the crime scene was, the bedroom. Does that give us more clues?

 

[UKGuy]

So the weapon was likely where the crime scene was, the bedroom. Does that give us more clues?

summerthyme,
Not really, unless you factor in that, from memory, the wall light was not working so maybe the flashlight was being used?


Its the head whack that gets me. I can only explain that via JonBenet not doing whatever was expected and so she gets whacked for it?


.

 

[SunVenus]

This is something I've never considered before. It just occurred to me.

For the sake of argument, let's say that JBR had her last beverage no later than 9:00 pm at the party. (She could have had tea with her pinapple snack closer to 10:00 pm, but her prints were not on the tea glass.) If she was asleep when the Rs arrived home, which I doubt, would PR have put her to bed before visiting the bathroom? Or would she have awakened JBR to reduce the chance of an accident? Either way, I'm betting that JBR used the bathroom before she was put to bed that night. Plus wouldn't a parent of a child with a bed wetting problem limit the intake of fluids late in the evening?

Here are my questions:
1. If she emptied her bladder before she went to bed, and at the time of death, is it possible that she could have had an accident in between say 10:00 pm and estimated TOD at 1:00 am?

2. If she did not use the bathroom before bed around 10:00 pm, and did have an accident later, could she have had enough left in her bladder at the estimated TOD 1:00 am to release urine at death?

I'm wondering about this in relation to the "PR lost control due to an accident" theory, and thinking it makes it a less likely scenario. Any experts on the subject out there?

Good questions, Nom de plume.

Regarding question #2, yes, even if JBR had emptied her bladder earlier, the body is a machine constantly on the go. Urine is produced all the time, and as the bladder fills it reaches that release triggering mechanism that tells us when we need to empty the tank, so to speak. But one may not have that feeling of a full bladder and still have urine in it. Thus when a person dies, the sphincter muscles of the body relax, and urine (and other things occasionally) are released. So what I am wondering is: just how large of an area of urine staining was found on & near JBR's body, and on the floors in the basement, etc. The volume might tell us more about the timeline, and if the murder was a rage-fueled issue over "potty -training" sort of matters or whatnot. But of course to really know that, we would have to have an honest & believable testimony by the R's, which we do not have. The inconsistencies in their various testimonies and subsequent evidence clouds the issue.

 

[DeeDee249]

Just going over PMPT, pgs 728-729, and Hoffman-Pugh was relating the info about JB's sheets and blanket being washed in the laundry facility on the same floor as her bedroom. She speculated that only the Ramsey's would have known JB's blanket might have been in that dryer, since the machines were in a cabinet.

I previously thought the blanket came from the basement machine, possibly discovered there while a stager was looking for cleanup materials after an assault occurring in the basement.

I wonder now if the cleanup and redressing took place in JB's bathroom/bedroom, and she was wrapped into her blanket before being carried downstairs.

This conflicts with previous statements made to LE by LHP. She stated that although JB's sheets were washed in the smaller laundry area outside her room, the white blanket did not fit in the smaller machines and was washed in the basement washer, which was a large capacity machine.
It is possible that Schiller's account may not be accurate. It is likely that ONLY Patsy (or maybe JR) knew the white blanket was in the basement dryer as opposed to the dryer outside JB's room. However, if the laundry area outside JB's room was hidden behind closet doors (MANY homes have these smaller machines in a closet) that is also something that an intruder might not have known. One more thing- how a bed is made up is a personal thing and varies from family to family. Some people I know do not use blankets at all- they use duvets- not even a top sheet. Some use comforter and sheet, no blanket, some use bedspreads with top sheet and blanket, etc. It has already been stated that police determined (and Patsy reluctantly agreed) that there had been NO blanket on that bed when it had been made. That being said, why would and intruder even think there WAS a blanket in a dryer somewhere, let alone which dryer it was in? Answer- they wouldn't, of course. No one outside the family and LHP knew how Patsy made up JB's bed- sheets and white blanket under the bedspread.

 

[SunVenus]

summerthyme,
Not really, unless you factor in that, from memory, the wall light was not working so maybe the flashlight was being used?


Its the head whack that gets me. I can only explain that via JonBenet not doing whatever was expected and so she gets whacked for it?


.

In my way of thinking, the head whack is the violent incident that started the whole chain of deadly events. I realise experts like Cyril Wecht believes the head-blow came after strangulation. I know the coroner listed the head-blow after asphyxiation in the coroner's report on COD. (IIRC) On the other hand, JK seems to think the head-blow came first, and that seems most likely IMO. The head blow to me indicates rage or surprise or (sadly) even a person meaning to smack JBR a little bit as punishment or inducement... but that the blow was a bit heavier than intended, or not knowing their own strength and the compartive softness of a young skull. Perhaps the object that caused the blow was such that it had some leverage behind it (such a golf club or the heavy-duty torch)-- a long (or long-ish) "handle" with a massy, blunt end as the striking focus.

I don't think the head-blow happened in the basement. It seems more likely to me it was elsewhere in the house-- the kitchen, JBR's bedroom seem more logical given what we know. Someone on another thread (and my sincere apologies to the poster, I can't recall your name right now) suggested a scenario that I had entertained as a scenario as well: PR suspects that someone (JR maybe) was sexually abusing JBR. She sneaks in with the flashlight to where it was occurring, to capture them in the act. She is horrified, enraged, snaps mentally & emotionally. A blow lands-- and hits JBR. Was JBR the intended target? Maybe not-- perhaps it was dark and PR's mind went into a fugue state-- in panic or anger the field of vision can literally narrow & blur. Or maybe in such a break PR blamed JBR. We may never know.

But that isn't the only scenario I entertain. There were four R's of the nuclear family in that house that night, and I feel sure all of them know-- especially by now-- the minutiae of what occurred, when & what triggered it. Two are dead, and two won't talk.

 

[midwest mama]

Nom de plume, DeeDee249, SunVenus -
With regard to JB's urine problems, the bedding, etc: On the candyrose website there are some good shots of the carpet stains in JB's bedroom, also showing the carpet sample taken by the police cut away. The urine stain looks pretty large on the overall.

How would that much of a large urine stain be on JB's carpet on Christmas day? If LHP had been there two days before the murder changing sheets, and there had been a pee spot that large next to the bed, wouldn't she have been compelled to clean it up?

Could JB have let go of that much urine right next to her bed for some reason?
If so, she must have been without undies or just in a simple pair?

Urine on the bedroom carpet, urine on the basement carpet near the paint tray and in the front of her long johns, and urine on the blanket she was wrapped in. I don't know what to make of it all.

Oh yes, PMPT also refers to the carpet samples taken from JAR's room, and there was some question about the dust ruffle being disturbed on the bed in that room as to whether JB ran and hid under it, only to be pulled out from under the bed by someone. More peed up carpet - from fear??