Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #19

[CMorrison64]

First time I've checked in a few weeks, been busy with our first grandchild, a boy .... but these girls are never far from my thoughts and heart and still praying for justice.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

What a joyful event CM64! Congrats to you and your family!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Your above post sure seems like ridicule to me.............


If you are interested in criminal profiling, I would suggest visiting your local library or book store. As this area of crime fighting becomes more advanced there are more and more informative books available. I have studied many of them and have found the ones written by John Douglas to be interesting. Most of the books will cover the organized killer and the disorganized killer. (As well as the different types of individuals that engage in overkill).

Hi Flossie,

I would like to know what you have learned as to the type of people that commit what some see as overkill murders. Although I am still not sure I would call these murders overkills since it wasn't repeated shots to vital areas like most overkill crimes are done.

I do think these crimes were done by disorganized killers though.

imoo

 

[tapu]

Your above post sure seems like ridicule to me.............


If you are interested in criminal profiling, I would suggest visiting your local library or book store. As this area of crime fighting becomes more advanced there are more and more informative books available. I have studied many of them and have found the ones written by John Douglas to be interesting. Most of the books will cover the organized killer and the disorganized killer. (As well as the different types of individuals that engage in overkill).

I apologize for my initial reaction to your assertion that a profiler would say that a disorganized killer would likely be female, young, or homosexual.

Did you see this later post I made?
I can't find anything saying that disorganized murderers must be homosexual, young (necessarily), or female. For that matter, I can't find anything in the other direction; that is, that says females or homosexuals are likely to be disorganized. Can you give me the reference(s) for that? I get the young part because there is evidence for that. It's the female/homosexual angle that I can't figure out where you're coming from.

Also, I certainly didn't intend to ridicule you and I don't think others did either. Everyone was just shocked at where such an assertion would come from. I tried to explain that I thought you meant you were surmising rather than that you were presenting that as something a profiler ever actually said.

Now, not to put too fine a point on it, but your responses to me do seem like ridicule. Rather than telling me to go study up on this, could you please just back up your assertion with the reference you allude to? What have you read, specifically, that leads you to believe profilers might think a homosexual perp was indicated.

I really am just asking you where you got that, and that's a legitimate request.

On edit: I'm feeling a little nervous about this exchange. I don't really think there's anything untoward about asking someone to back up assertions on a forum thread, but I don't want to upset you. I'm perfectly happy to drop the point as unsourced but your opinion.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Tapu,

I am not Flossie, of course, but there has been speculation off and on for months by some that the girls may have come upon two males and caught them in an embarrassing compromising position. They may have known the girls or knew the girls could identify them so to protect their secret they killed them to silence them.

I have seen so many cases that ended in murder because the perpetrator(s) were trying to protect their secret life from being exposed.

So I don't find it an illogical theory just another one among others.

imoo

 

[tapu]

Tapu,

I am not Flossie, of course, but there has been speculation off and on for months by some that the girls may have come upon two males and caught them in an embarrassing compromising position. They may have known the girls or knew the girls could identify them so to protect their secret they killed them to silence them.

I have seen so many cases that ended in murder because the perpetrator(s) were trying to protect their secret life from being exposed.

So I don't find it an illogical theory just another one among others.

imoo

Right! I've heard that speculation and I get where it's coming from. I was interested in seeing if there is anything to back it up, independent of us all surmising. I would like to find something that says a profiler might point that out and I thought Flossie had that info. Thanks for the connection.

 

[Ruflossn]

Tapu and Ocean~
Hi. I just returned from being out of town. (for the past 5 days) I will do my best to try and provide links or info. on the questions that you have asked. However, I am inundated w/ responsibilities w/ family and work. Give me time and I will do my best to get answers for you.

Flossie

 

[Seagypzy]

Hi, to all. I am new to this thread. I am a nurse, living overseas and working in Italy. I have a question that someone familiar with the area of the crime might be able to answer. I feel really suspicious about this native american appearing POI. I have been through many areas of Oklahoma (having been the now ex-wife of a Texan) and the native american population seems to live in pockets near each other. This area, from what I see of school website photos, interviews of neighbors, etc, seem to be primarily caucasian. Is this an integrated area? Who exactly is giving the description of this POI? I thought I read where there are several people that saw this person. Were these people together, related, friends? These are country roads and people that live in these area way more interested in anything outside their norm on these country roads than we are in the city. Seclusion makes you wary for your safety, I think. I would think this man would have stood out like a sore thumb. Anyway, this does not seem like the doing of a native american person-this may be a rarity, but they just don't go around shooting little girls. My opinion, of course, but it has the smell of scapegoat to me. I just don't believe it.

 

[Trino]

Anyway, this does not seem like the doing of a native american person-this may be a rarity, but they just don't go around shooting little girls. My opinion, of course, but it has the smell of scapegoat to me. I just don't believe it.

I have thought this for sometime. It's good to question who profiled the POI. I don't think they've been publicly identified.

Most Native Americans tend to be protective of children; it would seem out of character for most to commit such a crime. Of course, there's always the bad seed, so you never know.

This case is so frustrating that it's hard to make up one's mind. Was it a local? A drug dealer? A revenge killing? My opinion tends to go the way the wind blows on any particular day.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Tapu and Ocean~
Hi. I just returned from being out of town. (for the past 5 days) I will do my best to try and provide links or info. on the questions that you have asked. However, I am inundated w/ responsibilities w/ family and work. Give me time and I will do my best to get answers for you.

Flossie

Thank you Flossie. Take your time, I know how family and work can take up a lot of our time.

Not everyone is retired yet. I use to be the same way until I had more time to devote to things that peaked my interest.

Ocean

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi, to all. I am new to this thread. I am a nurse, living overseas and working in Italy. I have a question that someone familiar with the area of the crime might be able to answer. I feel really suspicious about this native american appearing POI. I have been through many areas of Oklahoma (having been the now ex-wife of a Texan) and the native american population seems to live in pockets near each other. This area, from what I see of school website photos, interviews of neighbors, etc, seem to be primarily caucasian. Is this an integrated area? Who exactly is giving the description of this POI? I thought I read where there are several people that saw this person. Were these people together, related, friends? These are country roads and people that live in these area way more interested in anything outside their norm on these country roads than we are in the city. Seclusion makes you wary for your safety, I think. I would think this man would have stood out like a sore thumb. Anyway, this does not seem like the doing of a native american person-this may be a rarity, but they just don't go around shooting little girls. My opinion, of course, but it has the smell of scapegoat to me. I just don't believe it.

Welcome!


I really don't think that we can say with any certainty that because a person is of a certain race they will not do something like this.

I found this link interesting.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ps...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

If I recall correctly the Weleetka area has about 40 percent Indian population. So it should be commonplace to see them all in the area.

I know at the girls funerals there were several Indians there.

 

[Boots-OK]

Welcome!


I really don't think that we can say with any certainty that because a person is of a certain race they will not do something like this.

I found this link interesting.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ps...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

If I recall correctly the Weleetka area has about 40 percent Indian population. So it should be commonplace to see them all in the area.

I know at the girls funerals there were several Indians there.

Thanks for the link, Ocean - it is very interesting. I remember early on that some locals "reportedly" stated that the POI composite looked like half the population in that area...so, yes, high concentration of Native Americans all over Oklahoma actually.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks for the link, Ocean - it is very interesting. I remember early on that some locals "reportedly" stated that the POI composite looked like half the population in that area...so, yes, high concentration of Native Americans all over Oklahoma actually.

Hi Boots,

And I would think there would also be many who were from Indian descent on either side of their families too.

I just remember seeing them in the funeral pictures because they usually have the most beautiful shiny black hair. LOL I love black hair.

imoo

 

[Seagypzy]

Hi again, thanks for the input. I have been reading most of the back posts on this thread and also from the Topix. Someone posted that a relative of one of the men questioned by the grand jury was( or is) a lighthorse officer of the Chickasaw nation-so there goes my theory. I guess because I have several native american friends that have a common trait that they revere children that it is difficult for me to believe that this POI (if he exists) is to blame. There seems to be other people in the area that could foot the bill for this awful crime.
Oceanblueeyes-I worked as a nurse on Camp Lejeune for 14 years before moving to Italy. Nice area/nice people. Semper Fi

 

[Seagypzy]

Boots OK, thanks for the book link. Really interesting!

 

[STEADFAST]

Most Native Americans tend to be protective of children; it would seem out of character for most to commit such a crime. Of course, there's always the bad seed, so you never know.

Statistics don't bear this out. From U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, here are child abuse and neglect numbers for 1995:


Number of victims per 100,000 children, age 14 or younger

All children 1,724

American Indian 3,343
White 1,520
Black 3,323
Asian 479
Hispanic 1,254

Note: Rates were calculated on the number of children age 14 or younger.
because they account for at least 80% of the victims of child abuse and neglect.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/aic.txt

I'm not saying that prejudice couldn't have been a factor in identifying the POI
as an Native American. I'm just saying that the argument that he
was less likely to be Native American because of a higher cultural tendancy to
protect children just doesn't hold up.

 

[Seagypzy]

Thanks, Steadfast. That's what I get for basing my gut feelings on personal experience and not the facts. Good post.

 

[Boots-OK]

Hi Boots,

And I would think there would also be many who were from Indian descent on either side of their families too.

I just remember seeing them in the funeral pictures because they usually have the most beautiful shiny black hair. LOL I love black hair.

imoo

Yep, and I'm proud to be one of them!! My paternal grandmother was full blood Cherokee. Little bitty woman - very quiet - but, oh the inner strength and, yes, black hair to her waist. (She used to take it out of the bun and let me brush it when I was a little girl). Hadn't thought of that in years...very sweet memory and a precious grandmother.

 

[Boots-OK]

Steadfast - thanks for posting that info.

Those statistics are surprising to me; however, I believe the link that Ocean posted discussed the poverty and extreme conditions that many Native Americans experience on the Reservations.

I can only speak from my personal experience that my Grandmother was very protective of her family (they lived in a covered wagon for years) and, yes, I expect that in my Dad's childhood they were impoverished, but they were a great big happy family (8 kids in all) and no abuse. And, yes I know...it's just one story...and it was years ago. As with all walks of life - this too has probably changed with the times.

 

[STEADFAST]

Steadfast - thanks for posting that info.

Those statistics are surprising to me; however, I believe the link that Ocean posted discussed the poverty and extreme conditions that many Native Americans experience on the Reservations.

I can only speak from my personal experience that my Grandmother was very protective of her family (they lived in a covered wagon for years) and, yes, I expect that in my Dad's childhood they were impoverished, but they were a great big happy family (8 kids in all) and no abuse. And, yes I know...it's just one story...and it was years ago. As with all walks of life - this too has probably changed with the times.

The statistics were surprising to me, too. However, I don't really think the rate of child abuse/neglect in any community applies to a case where someone gunned down two children. Whoever did this is beyond any cultural restraints.