Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items

[magic-cat]

BBM

Very possible!

Why would they have one of Caylee's teeth. It's not like she was of an age to have begun loosing her baby teeth.

Hmmm ......... interesting, to say the least.

Either of the following is possible about the tooth:
It belonged to Casey.
It belonged to Caylee and was dislodged in the car or the home or in the yard somehow after she died.
It belonged to Caylee and was found in the woods by Dominick Casey.
It belonged to Caylee and she had lost it by getting it knocked out at some previous time and they could not get to a dentist to have it re-implanted fast enough so had her a new one implanted that was artificial and THAT is the one that fell out at the remains site.

Is it possible the 'picture' is not a photo but a picture of something - such as a second list? Because I don't remember any photos being sealed (aside from the crime scene photos). Could photos have been shown to the Judge during the in camera session as being part of a contract of some sort. I know, I know, but I just hate having to think about giving up my nice neat theory

The BAD pictures of Casey were sealed.

I don't know whether they were sealed or not. I do remember the FBI talking to GA about some pictures they had come across, but I can't find anything about them being sealed - perhaps someone can set us both straight on this.

Yep, those are the ones and they were sealed.

I believe it's about money for the photos and videos. That's right where JB interrupts. Cindy states in her depo that they only received money for the 48 hours show. It has been reported that over 200,000 has been paid out for photo and videos from various media. JB says this info will come out but he doesn't want it made public now or words to that effect.

Looks like the money received from ABC was it? went right into the pockets of the save the murderer defense team, huh? Unless, of course, Cindy is lying about that?

I do remember Judge S sealing the photos, but we have had KC's photobucket released in a doc dump, no? Muzikman ( I think ) posted a link to it a long time ago. I know this because I downloaded it.

I'm leaning to the bad pictures somehow, wasn't one of them the one that made GA vomit? I really can't see any value in selling that for defense $$.

I don't know, I'm still trying to think of how Caylee's hair could be on her sheet and pillow, because CA said she washed them weekly when all this first started. We all thought she was nuts; ~ why wash clean bedding?

Apparently there were 2 versions of the photobucket, if I recall correctly and one version, which was not viewable by the public but WAS by a supoena was the DELETED images...they still showed in the photobucket records...I think that is where the nasty stuff was, and who knows what else was in there to incriminate her? Must have been pretty bad though because the judge did think they would be inflammatory...

I am thinking Exhibit 22 is larger than what is shown in the PDF. Ashton is saying the "top picture is sealed". Then Cindy starts to say she recognizes the handwriting on the left but not the right. So the question is what was at the top of that page? The top picture is a picture of something Casey gave Baez b/c they talk about limiting the answer to only items that Cindy had given Baez.

So they don't talk about whatever that picture was and then they continue on and they talk about what photos, videos or images Cindy observed Casey gathering to bring to Baez and he starts having a hissy fit.

So I think there are two issues here...there is a picture of something that is sealed that Casey gave to Baez and there is the issue that Casey gathered up pictures, videos, etc to take to Baez to be sold. Around that time they were also asking about Casey being in the garage alone....Cindy was adamant Casey had not been in the garage alone. Could Casey have given Baez a some duct tape from the garage?

The important thing is this-before Baez could get Cindy to shut up she said a big fat whopping YES-she did see Casey gathering/removing pictures, etc to take to JoseBGood...he did not stop her from answering at all...he just stopped her from expanding...her YES is there as clear as day!

I noticed in Cindy's depo..they note she is crying when they are questioning her about what she found in the backseat of the car... she says pants, boots, Caylee's carseat...says she lifted up the carseat to see if there was anything under it. Do you think she found Caylee's front tooth in or around the carseat? She knows that Caylee was probably hit in the face while sitting in the carseat and that is what got her so emotional at that point? I can see it.. Casey...leaves angry, Caylee in carseat, perhaps crying and Casey turns around and hits her, knocking her front tooth out...which leads next to murdering her because she can't bring her home with a missing tooth and bruised face...Caylee would tell what happened.
And the carseat...Cindy says Casey's was black and white, and the one in Cindy's car was the brown Eddie Bauer. Did she find blood on the black and white one from the tooth loss, dispose of it and put the Eddie Bauer one in Casey's car? LE has the Eddie Bauer one...where is the black and white one??

Cindy says it is in the attic...But Cindy says...so??? Ya know?:waitasec:

In the hearing yesterday LDB alluded to the fact that the family may sell the autopsy photos, then changed it to something like "what family would do that?" Then stated that she was not concerned for the family but for Caylee. I think this was after JB said that KC was next of kin and owned the pictures.
CA said in her depo that she had received $10,000 but it has been reported that over $200,000 has been paid.
How did the SA know to question GA about the laundry bag containing balls. Is there a picture we haven't seen?

Somebody has either told them about that tote with the balls or they have seen a picture of it somewhere...

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

Do we have a clearer image of these 2 pages...

 

[ThoughtElf]

Do we have a clearer image of these 2 pages...

Not yet. MM is going down this week to get a real copy and he is hoping that the actaul version will be much clearer.

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

Can anyone direct me to the press conference that MB (Bart, as a reminder) did with the A's where CA looked like she was going to collapse or do we know the date of that pc at a minimum?

And DC...anyone recall the date LA and DC went to see KC together and date DC went into the woods based on the psychic's tip

Here's an idea...I'll call it The Frame Up Someone Else Solution
If we could see where CA really got heated/really over did it on selling she had no idea about something (DC's trip to the woods), we might be able to link those hot buttons together with some sort of take these things from the scene, leave these brand new things that have absolutely no DNA, move Caylee's body so we can hide it in our wall. The things on the right are non-DNA specific. The things on the left are, lets plant this stuff at SOD's house to frame em.

Maybe DC gave JH a copy of these when he went to his office before heading out. At some point, JH was outed by the DC/A/JB club - think it was over money and potentially other things. One of JH's depos is sealed. Maybe he testified to this list in his depo (chain of custody so to speak...from JB/KC, once they'd finished their licorice lace, while DC/LA went to the jail together). That...would be a problem! A big one (for KC's freedom, JB's career, the other's freedom, etc.) So it's go into "this has to be sealed, it's highly inflammatory, JH never received this from any of us, we wouldn't do that (BS!)" - bring up everything bad about JH that they can, claim he created the letter, is trying to frame KC...whatever. And, we have CA's recently released depo where the fact she wants to make sure it's on the record that she has never seen it, intrigues me as it's one of those hot points that make me wonder, hmmmm....are you so emotionally charged about this because it's something, I don't know...you're LYING about!

If we ask why is this DC guy even involved. He doesn't seem to be a genuinely good person to me. Ideas only - maybe he's been promised a seat on the Caylee money train or he's the funder/linked to the funder of the defense...he/they are agreeing to fund if they get the rights to profit HUGE after they get her off through a few magic tricks on the evidence/trail/etc.

If this makes no sense, forgive me - it's 3:11AM and I should be sleeping like KC was able to do in between visits with the police late 15th & early morn/afternoon of 16th even though her daughter was missing.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Misheley26 - here is the MB interview you're looking for:

http://www.cfnews13.com/MediaPlayer2/MediaPlayer.htm?video=GeorgeAnthonyInterview_112020081037&cat=Local&title=George%20Anthony%20Interview

Don't know the DC/CA dates off hand.

Hadn't even thought about using the additional items to set-up SODDI.

evil.

 

[MissJames]

I'm sure this has already come up,but my first thought was that by saying KC was taking all these photos to Baez it would confirm to the public that KC is making money off of the baby she murdered to pay her defense to get her off.As a matter of fact ,it's confirmed that the SA knows the amswer and they ask Baez if his objection is because the public might find out.
Does anyone think they continued with the questions,Cindy answered and the answers were sealed by JS, so they don't appear on the depo? It just kinda stopped mid argument.
I also found it interesting that KC and Cindy got Caylee's sheets and pillowcase for Baez.Cindy claimed she washed those items and remade the bed weekly ,waiting for Caylee to come home.
This entire family takes 750 words to explain yes or no answers.

 

[kew17]

Oooh Kat, thanks for bringing this up. I was on hiatus when the news came in that the FL bar had released JB on two of the complaints against him (this past summer), but at the time I thought to myself, "Still doens't mean he didn't tell DC not to call 911. All it means is that it couldn't be proven."

I mean, unless recorded on tape in a meeting or during aphone call, then it would just be a 'he said/he said,' between JB & DC to begin with. Plus, by the time the Bar would have depo'd DC, ya know darn well some one would have gotten him to change his tune and 'forget' the details. either CA or with some $$.

If I sound pessimistic, it is because I am. And I believe the State does have something that they find offensive to Caylee, the way JB is handling this case & especially to their profession as lawyers.

Don't forget, Judge Strickland even filed a complaint against JB, and most of the legal advisors on here were all in agreement that it is very rare for a Judge to do so - especially while a case is still ongoing.

There aren't enough baggies in FL for JB to use to clean up all the messes he's left in his own back yard. And you know you just shouldn't **** where you eat.

I was just making some notes while reading this thread and catching up. I was thinking some of the same thoughts as you.

1) The March 25 hearing was about the SA wanting the defense to divulge how they were being paid...after an in camera meeting, JS ruled that whatever was said in there was acceptable by him.

2) Shortly after this hearing, is when I believe JS filed HIS complaint about JB to the bar. Interesting timing here.

3) Less than a month later (4/13/09) the DP is back on the table.

Whatever has JB's knickers in a wad is certainly something big and he doesn't want it out to media/public. Sure sounds like it relates more to him than KC I get the sneaky suspicion.

I get the impression the objection is about he "photograph of the 2 documents". I just can't figure how those docs ties into KC taking photos/videos to JB. Are we dealing with 2 different objections or 1?

 

[MissJames]

I just want to add kudos to the prosecution team.How they managed to not scream Liar,Liar,Pants on Fire throughout the depos is beyond me.I'm glad they are the good guys.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I was just making some notes while reading this thread and catching up. I was thinking some of the same thoughts as you.

1) The March 25 hearing was about the SA wanting the defense to divulge how they were being paid...after an in camera meeting, JS ruled that whatever was said in there was acceptable by him.

2) Shortly after this hearing, is when I believe JS filed HIS complaint about JB to the bar. Interesting timing here.

3) Less than a month later (4/13/09) the DP is back on the table.

Whatever has JB's knickers in a wad is certainly something big and he doesn't want it out to media/public. Sure sounds like it relates more to him than KC I get the sneaky suspicion.

I get the impression the objection is about he "photograph of the 2 documents". I just can't figure how those docs ties into KC taking photos/videos to JB. Are we dealing with 2 different objections or 1?

Two, IMO.

Side note: IIRC, we have seen the results from 4-5 of the complaints against JB, but I thought there was still one hanging out there. Was it Judge Strickland's?

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

Thanks TE! Not sure if this is the one. CA seemed to be crying - I thought pretty hard and thought they were up at the podium at some point. My memory is HORRIBLE though so maybe I'm just thinking of another time she was crying hard...if that's the case, I shouldn't have to look much further.

Misheley26 - here is the MB interview you're looking for:

http://www.cfnews13.com/MediaPlayer2/MediaPlayer.htm?video=GeorgeAnthonyInterview_112020081037&cat=Local&title=George%20Anthony%20Interview

Don't know the DC/CA dates off hand.

Hadn't even thought about using the additional items to set-up SODDI.

evil.

 

[MissJames]

I was just making some notes while reading this thread and catching up. I was thinking some of the same thoughts as you.

1) The March 25 hearing was about the SA wanting the defense to divulge how they were being paid...after an in camera meeting, JS ruled that whatever was said in there was acceptable by him.

2) Shortly after this hearing, is when I believe JS filed HIS complaint about JB to the bar. Interesting timing here.

3) Less than a month later (4/13/09) the DP is back on the table.

Whatever has JB's knickers in a wad is certainly something big and he doesn't want it out to media/public. Sure sounds like it relates more to him than KC I get the sneaky suspicion.

I get the impression the objection is about he "photograph of the
2 documents". I just can't figure how those docs ties into KC taking photos/videos to JB. Are we dealing with 2 different objections or 1?

BBM
Contracts between KC and the media outlets,or contracts between KC and JB? OR a document signing over all rights to Caylee's images to JB? Then he can sell them. What would be worse? Contract between JB's wife or one of his companies giving him [them,but him actually] rights to Caylee's images?
Circumventing possible legal ethics?
ETA: Cindy stipulated she recognized one of the two handwritings as Casey's

 

[faefrost]

I am still confused about something being sealed that we are not aware of?

IF something (photo, etc) is under seal, wouldn't that have happened during a hearing or in response to a motion?

Is there such a thing a being "secretly sealed" under Florida Sunshine Law (does THAT even make sense???)???

Secretly sealed? No not really. At the very least there would be some sort of generic motion to seal something, and the judges ruling in favor of such. So we would know something was sealed, just not what or what it pertained to.

There are a few things that are automatically sealed under the FL sunshine laws. Autopsy photos (The Dale Earnhart laws), Criminal records handled as juvenile offenses, anything related to child protective services, and anything related to the sexual assault of a child are all automatically sealed.

I can't see anything in those questions that would trigger one of those automatic seals (plus the SA's would by nature and training know to automatically stear clear of anything related to those types of seals, whereas JB would probably not even think to recognize them). The only things we know that are specifically sealed in this case are items relating to KC and JB's compensation agreements. Which we have long suspected involves selling off Caylee pictures to media outlets to fund her defense. It's certain that JB would not be able to object to anything else CA might say or be asked on the grounds of attorney client privilege or related work product privileges. By definition if CA knows it, it is not privileged information.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Thanks TE! Not sure if this is the one. CA seemed to be crying - I thought pretty hard and thought they were up at the podium at some point. My memory is HORRIBLE though so maybe I'm just thinking of another time she was crying hard...if that's the case, I shouldn't have to look much further.

Nope, this is prob the one. You have to wait until about halfway through, suffering along with MB's blather. Once George begins to speak, you will see Cindy beside him looking incredibly frail and drugged up. Many posters thought she might have been ill as it appeared that she had lost a lot of weight then.

(OT So weird to see 'TE'. I was 'PH' for so long. LOL!)

 

[MissJames]

I am thinking Exhibit 22 is larger than what is shown in the PDF. Ashton is saying the "top picture is sealed". Then Cindy starts to say she recognizes the handwriting on the left but not the right. So the question is what was at the top of that page? The top picture is a picture of something Casey gave Baez b/c they talk about limiting the answer to only items that Cindy had given Baez.

So they don't talk about whatever that picture was and then they continue on and they talk about what photos, videos or images Cindy observed Casey gathering to bring to Baez and he starts having a hissy fit.

So I think there are two issues here...there is a picture of something that is sealed that Casey gave to Baez and there is the issue that Casey gathered up pictures, videos, etc to take to Baez to be sold. Around that time they were also asking about Casey being in the garage alone....Cindy was adamant Casey had not been in the garage alone. Could Casey have given Baez a some duct tape from the garage?[/QUOTE]

That was my very first thought...because the immediate question LindaDB asks after they all have their litle scuffle...is "Did you ever have duct tape in your home" or something to that effect. I think it was her way of getting a point across. I think CA probably witnessed KC gathering stuff up for JB and duct tape was among those items. Perhaps the sealed picture was that of the skull with duct tape - I believe they said it was sealed by agreement. Probably because they would not be so cruel as to put that in front of CA at her depo (even though they will be presented at trial). The list was probably in JB's writing telling KC what to bring from home....duct tape being the most incriminating.

Well,Lee gave him the BAT phone and KC's notes. I'm sure the people actually investigating Caylee's murder would have appreciated them.
So yes,I think KC would have given JB the tape.
CA says the duct tape they used to put up posters was black.She must have forgotten how many videos and pictures there were to show she's lying.Kinda like the Big Trouble shirt.....Nope,Caylee would only have plain pink shirts.She would never have a shirt with writing like that on it. [pause]Well yes,that does look like Caylee in that Big Trouble shirt :banghead:
Sorry,I'm OT and very tired .

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

Kind of inline with my theory presented at 3:11ish or a bit earlier...

We know that KC's reaction to the find by the house is sealed and likely cause it wasn't what you'd typically expect. Maybe it's not reflective of what you'd typically expect because in her mind...she saw the report on TV and thought 'Are you f'ing kidding me! They didn't have a chance to cover everything up for me yet...I'm screwed'

 

[ThoughtElf]

Late night brain-fart: Could part of the reason that the State has such a problem with JB's ethical behavior be that they recognize that it doesn't seem as if JB has really gotten through to Casey that she really is facing the DP?

I'm thinking this isn't the first, or the last, case they have or will face in which perps &/or their families will make blood money. Certainly, it is more heinous as Caylee was so little and innocent, but I can't help but wonder if part of the issue with JB isn't simply about how the defense is being funded, but that JB is encouraging it at the expense of Casey having a proper, realistic defense?

Sorry... I keep going back to the March 25 hearing and Ashton starting right off with what a minefield this case will become. He went on to say that they needed to know if the Defendant really understood. Almost as if they were afraid of something that could lead to appeal?

Certainly, the State might abhor the sale of photos, but I just have this nagging thought that it isn't just the $$$. Is it also the fact that Casey is funding a sub-par lead lawyer, in a less than stellar defense? Many people think she long since should have been guided to plea out. I happen to be in that camp.

Perhaps the state recognizes that there are general moral issues - if not legal ones - with the guidance Casey is getting that she might not realize exactly what she's sold her soul & pictures & videos for - and they do not want that to be cause for an appeal later.

Must go search out a transcript and review Ashton's exact words.

ETA: Added this screen shot snippet from the State's orig motion in regards to the conflict of interest. They had concerns that Casey was not being advised in her best interests, but in a manner to enhance value of the sales of her story (or artifacts like pictures.)

MOTION TO DETERMINE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND WAIVER
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0324/19002170.pdf

 

[ThoughtElf]

Question: Would Judge Strickland have to specifically, (or normally) return from the 'in camera' and say:

"Defendant waived her rights on conflict of interest."

Versus

"There is no conflict," IF she waived her rights after the Q&A in camera?

I am wondering if the biggest issue that has the State is so concerned is due to the potential for a 'conflict of interest' appeal later.

As Misheley26 pointed out up-thread, JB might have asked Casey to collect items for purposes other than DNA comparison. 'Bombshell' SODDI frame-ups would also increase the value of said items and the story.

Alternately, even if that wasn't the purpose for gathering the items, the theory evolves further to show that JB specifically asked for items early last fall to compare DNA to a dead Caylee - long before Caylee's remains were found, while the defense and family insisted Caylee was Alive, not to mention DC out there prodding the ground with his stick... all of which is not only damning, it could prove that Casey was being severely, (and unethically,) misguided by her advisors.

And you know, I can't help but think that if the State knows that ANY of these theories are true - THEY HAVE THEIR SMOKING GUN.


They might have conceptual proof that JB and team have long, long known of Casey's guilt and Caylee's murder, simply due to the manipulation of the story, the case and the circumstances to increase 'the story' value.


And, sadly, it could be part of the reason the DP was put back on the table, for all we know.

We can't see the issue; it is sealed. We don't know what it is. But, many seem to recognize that it is very, very important to the SA office. (And kudos to them for finding ways to get us to really think about every single thread that binds.)

Whatever is to be unsealed during the trial, in combination with their conflict of interest concerns over JB potentially trying to manipulate the value (outcome/prolongation) of this story, plus JB's extremely adverse reaction to the line of questioning...

Well, as late as it is, that sounds pretty significant to me.

We might not figure out exactly what each of the objections are. And we might not know concrete facts until during or after the trial. But, as with too many other things in this awful case, we have to piece together the obvious, less obvious, and the circumstantial threads to weave things together into a collage that creates a bigger picture.

I haven't been able to get this off my mind all day. And I think perhaps it is because there was an echo in the back of my mind, hearing J. Ashton argue the motion on March 25th, and LDB state this week that she, 'Represents the interests of Caylee.' Hoping for further exploration the entire time we were reading and sleuthing every post and idea on this thread.

I don't think the State cares nearly as much about the blood money as they do about Justice for Caylee - which includes counsel that isn't deliberately setting this case up for an appeal by ill-advising the Mom of the Year who is facing Death Row.

We're on to something.

Not sure what, but I am thinking it is important beyond $ or disliking JB's ethics in general. It might just be about cutting off appeal avenues and ensuring justice for Caylee.

 

[sleutherontheside]

I think that early on, many of us were concerned that there were deep pockets funding the defense. That raised suspicion that someone with info to protect wanted to make sure that KC kept her mouth shut. Now, I think we see that KC was selling out her daughter to fund her own defense, and while legal, is disgusting. Perhaps the reason that JB fought so hard to keep this under wraps, is because it would further support the theories that she was interested in only herself. I can't imagine any innocent mother selling out their dead child for their own good and benefit being viewed in a positive manner. This is, while legal, absolutely unethical.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Thoughtelf...did you ever go to bed???

 

[ThoughtElf]

Thoughtelf...did you ever go to bed???

LMAO - I'd answer here, but you're not exactly an 8-hour-a-night-Gal yourself. Cat-naps?

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