Small Details that are interesting in the Cooper Harris case, #1

[kimi_SFC]

I only believe RH on the carseat strapping because I cannot imaging Cooper would not have climbed/crawled out of that seat and been all over that car trying to figure out where daddy went and how to get out and find him. That and the scratches and the abrasions to the back of his head. Those tell me that child could not move. Period.

^^^^ This ^^^^ to the Nth degree!

:cry: Cooper suffered immensely!


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[hopingicanhelp]

I looked at it the night this all happened (and have kicked myself ever since for not getting any screenshots). My impression of it was first- dude takes a lot of selfies. (Boy, did that turn out to be the understatement of the year!) and that the rest of the stuff was pretty benign. I don't remember a lot of specifics other than a picture of 2 home depot patches that he said were awards and made some statement like "It's been 2 years! And they still haven't gotten rid of me!". I then went to LH's facebook page and IIRC, there was very little activity on it from her. I don't remember any pictures of her with friends.

Maybe you're the best to ask this then -- I SWEAR I remember an initial interview with LH in which she was taking responsibility... along the lines of "I forgot; it's all my fault" etc, etc -- can't find it!! Was I dreaming? (I don't think so)

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

 

[MsMarple]

But what I'm finding odd is that RH was faced with a shockingly horrible, gruesome, tragic death of his beloved son RIGHT THERE. The visual, and olfactory image/smell of this dead toddler, his injuries, the rigor mortis, was beyond the pale---strangers were even taking action to perform CPR. I haven't heard that RH even tried to call 911. Most parents would be hyper focused on the here and now and in extreme urgency given the horrific event; most parents would be connected to the scene of this death in the present moment and to the dead toddler--both emotionally, and attentively. The immediate focus of the child, the immediate circumstances, and everything related geographically to that immediate area would be paramount is what I would expect from a parent.
Innate Focus => his dead son and what help he can obtain from LE or anyone who is RIGHT THERE.
The urgency and importance is right there in the immediate scene.
This was no little fender-bender. This was no trip and fall.
THIS WAS DEATH.

Nothing on RH's phone is going to be helpful or important in that scene. Call daycare---for what? To tell them CH wasn't going to be attending anymore? And then to start cursing LE as if they are annoying him (RH)? Really?

Yeah, there are variables that people may experience when they discover their child dead but RH's behavior was very weird. And we may all get to see it if they let the video out.

rbbm

IMO, that is an astute and important observation. The only connection RH had was to himself.

RH skipped right over any shock or notion of disbelief that his son was dead. Instead, his focus went straight to himself. “What have I done?” “I've killed my son!” “I dreaded what he would look like.” I'll go pull some leaves and then make some calls....

That's so self-focused and out of the norm that it makes RH a parody of a grieving father. I'll stop here because I don't want to be sent to time out.

:stormingmad:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Call daycare to tell them CH wasn't going to be attending anymore?? My goodness...I was thinking more along the lines of reaching LH, or someone close to her to have her contact him as soon as she arrived, etc., etc.
What you expect from people is not always what you're going to get!!! Men have a tendency to handle their anxiety/depression by getting angry--cursing at a cop doesn't give me a sense of hidden meanings or ulterior motives, and was not out of the realm of reasonable expectations in this situation, IMO.

BTW...the witnesses said he had asked one of the first people who came over to his car when he stopped to call 911. I would have felt an URGENT NEED to contact the mother of my dead child in that situation...and would have had a HUGE problem with anyone who got in the way of that. Because he didn't fall into the expected heap-on-the-ground doesn't tell me that he wasn't totally freaking out--he saw his son, he knew his son was dead, and he freaked out. So much so that he had to be restrained by cops.

But, at the end of this day, we're all forming theories--theories based on small bits of information molded to fit our perceptions of what really happened.

BBM: Doesn't LH own her own cellphone? Why not call her directly? I just don't see the point of calling Daycare but it really isn't a big point, all things considered.
When determining if someone is just a grieving father or complicent in his child's death, we look at behavior. This is not about judging a person's character or saying we like or don't like someone. We are analyzing and seeking truth. We want justice for this baby who is a victim; especially if it is something beyond negligence.

And I agree, we have only small bits of info as you have said. I think there will be a full forensic analysis of his computer, phone, SM, texts, sexts, financials, videos, surveillance, medication history, psych evals (if any), etc, etc.

 

[gngr~snap]

Small detail that bugs me:

Ross texted when are you picking up my buddy?

Leanna never texted when did you drop off Cooper?

Both were worried about hot car death.

We do not know that. There was an earlier text that we were trying to make out yesterday. It was from LH. It said
"Get to work OK?"
Hell yes! Or something like that. We don't know what time that text came in. It could have been from another day I guess.

 

[Bratislava]

BBM: Doesn't LH own her own cellphone? Why not call her directly? I just don't see the point of calling Daycare but it really isn't a big point, all things considered.
When determining if someone is just a grieving father or complicent in his child's death, we look at behavior. This is not about judging a person's character or saying we like or don't like someone. We are analyzing and seeking truth. We want justice for this baby who is a victim; especially if it is something beyond negligence.

And I agree, we have only small bits of info as you have said. I think there will be a full forensic analysis of his computer, phone, SM, texts, sexts, financials, videos, surveillance, medication history, psych evals (if any), etc, etc.

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that her phone was going to voicemail.

Do we know what kind of phone plan they used? Maybe a map of cell phone towers would help?

I know that we use Verizon and I can't make a call from my inlaws' home in North Druid Hills because it has zero reception there. I have to go stand in a yard on the other side of the street to check my messages and make phone calls.

 

[CCmakes3]

I am confused as to why some posters believe Cooper was not strapped in, and whether they think that Ross failed to buckle the straps or that Cooper unbuckled himself?? To my knowledge almost all of the toddlers who have died in hot cars were found strapped into their seats, so I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe. ???

I personally think that if Cooper were NOT buckled in, he would have laid down in an effort to get more comfortable rather than getting back into the car seat and dying there.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I don't believe Ross any farther than I could throw him. But you seem to, so I thought you might believe his statement over that of the LE officers who were on the scene. Which is why I posted that.

In this case, both Ross and the police seem to be on the same page.

I, myself, will believe the cops, not some urinal-selfie loser. But that's just me.

Is there some reason you question a unanimous statement from all sides claiming that Cooper was buckled in his carseat?

I guess if the cops actually saw CH fully buckled in his car seat, then the rest of the story makes absolutely no sense--the cops weren't there when it was reported that RH took CH out of his seat, laid him on the floor of the car, and then put him on the road/driveway. How would LE know CH was fully buckled? I just have a need to know which statements are based on fact and which statements are based on assumptions when it comes to LE testimony used to incarcerate and sentence people. Even if the CFA video showed RH putting CH into his car seat, does it give enough detail to show fully buckling the child? The seat was facing the rear--were the cameras at the back of the parking lot to give a full view of what was going on in the car? This is why I question "a unanimous statement from all sides"...because it's not logical.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

BBM: Doesn't LH own her own cellphone? Why not call her directly? I just don't see the point of calling Daycare but it really isn't a big point, all things considered.
When determining if someone is just a grieving father or complicent in his child's death, we look at behavior. This is not about judging a person's character or saying we like or don't like someone. We are analyzing and seeking truth. We want justice for this baby who is a victim; especially if it is something beyond negligence.

And I agree, we have only small bits of info as you have said. I think there will be a full forensic analysis of his computer, phone, SM, texts, sexts, financials, videos, surveillance, medication history, psych evals (if any), etc, etc.

According to the detective's testimony, RH did call LH first, but got no answer. Hmmm, but based on what's been reported lately, how do we even know this is true?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I am confused as to why some posters believe Cooper was not strapped in, and whether they think that Ross failed to buckle the straps or that Cooper unbuckled himself?? To my knowledge almost all of the toddlers who have died in hot cars were found strapped into their seats, so I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe. ???

I personally think that if Cooper were NOT buckled in, he would have laid down in an effort to get more comfortable rather than getting back into the car seat and dying there.

My interest in this has to do with LH's statement about "telling too much". Whether they didn't buckle CH up the right way in that seat because of it being too small for him--and maybe sometimes didn't buckle him at all.......

 

[EvilSoup]

I guess if the cops actually saw CH fully buckled in his car seat, then the rest of the story makes absolutely no sense--the cops weren't there when it was reported that RH took CH out of his seat, laid him on the floor of the car, and then put him on the road/driveway. How would LE know CH was fully buckled? I just have a need to know which statements are based on fact and which statements are based on assumptions when it comes to LE testimony used to incarcerate and sentence people. Even if the CFA video showed RH putting CH into his car seat, does it give enough detail to show fully buckling the child? The seat was facing the rear--were the cameras at the back of the parking lot to give a full view of what was going on in the car? This is why I question "a unanimous statement from all sides"...because it's not logical.

Well, it is logical.

Police stated Cooper was buckled in.

Ross stated Cooper was buckled in "tightly".

AFAIK, no one but you is suggesting Cooper was not buckled in.

Are you suggesting that Cooper could have gotten out if he'd wanted to? Because I really am having a hard time understanding what your point is. Cooper was a baby. He was cooked to death in his daddy's car. He did not "choose" this.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

According to the detective's testimony, RH did call LH first, but got no answer. Hmmm, but based on what's been reported lately, how do we even know this is true?

Oh yes, I remember hearing that and also some vague 6 minute phonecall too...not sure what that amounted to either?
I'm sure as the case progresses there will be an official timeline verified and corroborated.
Heck, I hope RH is only guilty of negligence in the death of his son because the alternate is pretty vile.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

Too bad that so many viewers, including myself, were deeply disturbed by the 30 seconds and this 30 seconds influenced my perception of RH's guilt.

Look, I don't like witnesses who play around with facts and treat them like they don't have an absolute relationship to reality. Time on a video camera is absolute- not relative. Common sense is not exaggerating on the witness stand. I, too, hope this prevails.

I've said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again -- the PCH wasn't a trial.

Stoddard was charged with relaying ALL of the state's evidence to this point.

He stated the video was time-stamped; he said "around 30 seconds."

Prosecution doesn't typically call (and LE doesn't typically offer up) a person not seasoned & capable enough to handle this responsibility.

That being said... he had to recall & recite a tremendous amount of information, all the while knowing what they were still looking into, trying to be careful to say enough while not saying too much... I have no doubt that whatever Stoddard was saying was what he recalled & believed to be true after multiple acts of participation on his part combined with multiple briefings by those on his team.

During the actual TRIAL, we will get a chance to see the actual officers involved in each portion of the investigation testifying to what they actually witnessed (no hearsay).

Probable cause hearing is just that -- probable cause. There has been no conviction; it's a rushed process (remember the defendant has a right to a speedy trial) so things can move along rather quickly.

I highly doubt anyone will leap to Stoddard being a perjurer.

... Outside of all that -- am I to understand that you are assuming that AJC & MB are being truthful and transparent while Stoddard was not? If so, why? Is there something more believable about MB or the reporter from AJC that would make you doubt Stoddard? Could you agree that the main arguing points that are covering the media right now are entirely subjective and best handled by a jury?

Please understand I'm not holding your feet to the fire -- I'm trying to understand your perspective -- thanks!

 

[CCmakes3]

Never mind...answered.

 

[EvilSoup]

I am confused as to why some posters believe Cooper was not strapped in, and whether they think that Ross failed to buckle the straps or that Cooper unbuckled himself?? To my knowledge almost all of the toddlers who have died in hot cars were found strapped into their seats, so I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe. ???

I personally think that if Cooper were NOT buckled in, he would have laid down in an effort to get more comfortable rather than getting back into the car seat and dying there.

I agree. It's almost as if they are shifting the blame from Ross onto Cooper for not getting himself out of the car. Because, after all, if he wasn't buckled in, he should have exited the car. WTF?

So if Ross left Cooper in the hot car UNBUCKLED, he would not be at fault?

This is really confusing me. No matter what, a parent is responsible for the safety of his baby son.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

My interest in this has to do with LH's statement about "telling too much". Whether they didn't buckle CH up the right way in that seat because of it being too small for him--and maybe sometimes didn't buckle him at all.......

But how do you know if LH was referencing the question of "telling too much" regarding the car seat at all?
We don't know what she was referencing. Maybe she was just asking him in a general sense. Maybe she was referring to their insurance policy on CH? There's a lot of things she may have had in her mind when asking him that question but we don't know if it had anything to do with the car seat.

 

[Lovejac]

sorry for the brief Off Topic but for those of you who followed the Caylee Anthony case and the subsequent trial of she whose name I refuse to speak . . .

Muzikman is back and finally able to speak freely!!! Thread is here http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-our-beloved-MUZIKMAN&p=10779944#post10779944

:woohoo: Running as fast as I can!

 

[Virgoedge]

Maybe you're the best to ask this then -- I SWEAR I remember an initial interview with LH in which she was taking responsibility... along the lines of "I forgot; it's all my fault" etc, etc -- can't find it!! Was I dreaming? (I don't think so)

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

I didn't really start closely following this until a few days later, so no, I don't recall an interview like that. I only searched his FB that night b/c it is close to where we live and I was grieving that beautiful little boy. I honestly never dreamed it would turn into such a circus nightmare of a case!

 

[SStarr33]

IMO, using words like toasted, cooked, baked, broiled etc...when referring to a baby is outrageous.

 

[SStarr33]

I agree. It's almost as if they are shifting the blame from Ross onto Cooper for not getting himself out of the car. Because, after all, if he wasn't buckled in, he should have exited the car. WTF?

So if Ross left Cooper in the hot car UNBUCKLED, he would not be at fault?

This is really confusing me. No matter what, a parent is responsible for the safety of his baby son.

I don't think anyone is saying he is not responsible, but some people think he did it on purpose and some don't.