Social Groups

[TxLady2]

TxLady you have some really good points, however it was far beyond just challenging theories. It was down right cruel behavior on some and the thread would get shut down every time. Posters would not post because they knew the attacks were coming. Unfortunately for some reason when you are not on the "popular" side of who is guilty some will not allow discussion or debate no matter how hard you try. Moderators had to delete so many attacking post, so unless you were there in real time and saw the attacks I am not sure you would fully understand. Yes I could of gone elsewhere to post, but WS is the best forum out there in my opinion and why should bullies chase people away? Like I stated earlier so much information was uncovered in the SG that could not of been done in the RT and that information was forwarded on to the proper authorities. I have learned more than I every cared to learn about people during this experience and I certainly will be much wiser on the next case I follow.

With all due respect, I may not have been here day and night, but I understand far more than you may realize. Not every challenge is meant as a personal attack... I'm sure some were, and I hope they were taken care of.

Having opposite POV's is the basis of a good debate. And sharing those POV's in a respectful and dignified manner is the key to being able to debate successfully. If we were all like-minded, it would get very boring!

I saw plenty of things posted from this side that were met with statements such as, "I will not consider this to be credible until I hear it confirmed by LE." So the other side had its challenges on a daily basis as well.

It doesn't matter to me if the SG's are allowed to continue or not... but IMO, it defeats the purpose of this board. The RT's all but obliterated the main forum, hardly anyone posted upstairs for months. But IF they are allowed to continue, then I hope that any useful information that one side or the other finds is at least shared with LE. Otherwise..... it's useless.

 

[TxLady2]

That's not true. What information we did find, has been turned over to LE, maybe the other groups bore no fruit of their labors, but we did. Sometimes what we were looking at didn't pan out, sometimes it did and it was turned over to the proper people.

That's good to know, Cajun. Any useful information should be turned over to authorities, because otherwise it has no value, right? And this is what good investigators do... they sleuth out leads and tips, even theories, and more often than not, they don't pan out. But they don't give up, they move on to something else and they keep digging until they find the answers. If this is what Busy's group was doing, more power to them.

I want to say that if my posts ever came across as hurtful to anyone, I apologize. It is never my intention to cause hurt feelings, or to 'one-up' anyone. All I am here for is for Haleigh. Not Ron, not Crystal, or any of their families or friends.... just Haleigh. That's what this is all about!

 

[MCDRAW]

I had no idea about the social groups. Nor do I care except that I joined WS to discuss crimes and now I learn that some case discussions are going on some where else that I can't be apart of. It kind of defeats the purpose of joining.IMO I just want to come read and comment about cases. One day I will figure out how to sleuth. I try to stay out of the drama. One thing I have learned, that once people reach a certain age, it appears that we revert back to childhood. JMO

 

[gracefuljf1505]

Hello all...IMO the moderators are right...if the posters can't show common courtesy in the social groups (meaning not talking rudely about each other, respecting each others POV etc.) then there shouldnt be social groups. I agree with them 100% no matter the decision they make regarding the groups.

 

[Blackwatch]

I had no idea there were social groups until someone mentioned the "private" groups. At that point I understood where the polarilty in the HC case originated. When I explored a bit further, I found you could NOT become a member simply by asking. Hmmm, on a free board, one cannot be part of the "in crowd" - very interesting - can you say it smacks of hubris and exclusionism? I can even if you can't.

I don't care one way or another if there are SGs, I'm not much of a joiner, mainly like to read and draw my own conclusions. However, I will say those who are protesting the loudest on this thread were the ones who seemed to be unable to tolerate any disagreement with their conclusions or criticism of their chosen "side". Maybe it was because of inside information like some boasted, I don't know, nor do I want to.

I think SGs are okay if you limit the ones who feel they are doing great "undercover" work to the SG only. That way, if they do make a breakthrough, they can report it to LE and not unfairly harass anyone else on a "rumor", or any other thread, who isn't "in the know" and doesn't agree with them due to a lack of presumed "knowledge". In other words, give self-proclaimed, above-average types a place to sleuth, but keep them off the regular boards 'cause they know more than the rest of us and don't feel inclined to share in a reasonable manner, but do feel moved to report everyone who has a differing opinion.

I say, give them their own place, without moderation, just don't let them post on the regular boards. Who knows, maybe they will solve a case without interference from others.

 

[SeekingJana]

If there are some people here who feel that they want to discuss a case outside the part of WS which the general public can see without being a member, what exactly are the objections to using the PL?
I thought that was its main purpose.

The idea of social networking on a true crime forum is just whacked in the first place. Before I changed my prefs. on the control panel not to receive invitations to Social Groups or friends lists, etc, I was invited to join some groups which had titles I didn't even begin to understand the meaning of.

WS is only effective when we work together as a team. It's not HER chat over the fence with a neighbor or HIS reading and subsequent paraphrasing from a local newspaper or newsgroup gossip- type forum that matters, it is what every one of us can contribute to the cases which weigh heavily upon each of us personally. This means the member who just joined yesterday as well as the long term members.

As for people saying they are friends and want to discuss life issues privately, set up a real time IRC chat and go to town, as they say in this part of the country. WS is not an online country club.
It was during the period of time when certain former members felt this site was their playground that WS stopped being productive and became destructive to all.

Peace,
Maria

 

[Aunt Mona]

RT= rumor thread @ Parking Lot
AH= Art Harris, a journalist/blogger whose site has published lots on the Haleigh case.

I think we need a button for abbreviations.Speaking for myself I would not feel so "out their" if I could hit a button to understand all the abbreviations!

I also think their should be two thank you buttons
1.Thanks for the information
2.Thanks I agree

Though I have been a member for along time,and love Websleuths and all the work the members do, I have to agree with the moderates it can at times get out of control.

I usually lurk sometimes post, felt respected other times not so much,But that's okay. I would like to see the Haleigh rumor thread restart! I think about her everyday as I know so many other people do I am saddened by the fact without WS parking lot she is again lost. I know the public forum exists but it is not the same.

IMO (in my opinion)

 

[travelgal]

I realize I am completely out of the "loop" and perhaps not even a worthy WS member to be invited to a "social group" but I would really appreciate someone explaining to me what these groups are. I have tried to figure it out on my own by reading through this thread but I still get the impression it is a secret society and not very inclusive. Would someone please enlighten me???

 

[fivekidz4me]

I honestly can't believe that I wasted twenty minutes reading through this unnecessary thread when there are people missing/unidentified that could use WS posters help by them thinking OUT LOUD in public forums! Wake up people, the HS drama is trivial stuff that makes WS look bad--didn't we all join to stop the madness out there? Use your time to help, instead of wasting time of moderators and readers.

 

[Mamabear1963]

I realize I am completely out of the "loop" and perhaps not even a worthy WS member to be invited to a "social group" but I would really appreciate someone explaining to me what these groups are. I have tried to figure it out on my own by reading through this thread but I still get the impression it is a secret society and not very inclusive. Would someone please enlighten me???

From what I have been able to gather:
The software that this board uses has the ability to have "Private" groups

Someone may want to start a group of say people in PA, it would be by invitation only because this group feels they know each other well enough to exchange addresses etc and they don't want that on a message board. Yes they could set up their own chat but if a message board has private groups why not just set one up there.

It isn't any more exclusive then having a church where a family is having a family reunion, uses the church building but OBVIOUSLY isn't going to invite the whole church.

Now this family rents the building...it isn't a church event...but the family still must obey the rules that the church has if they want to rent the building...if they don't want to follow the rules they can find another building.


Thank you Mods/Admins for keeping this a safe place AND for not treating us like little children.

 

[travelgal]

From what I have been able to gather:
The software that this board uses has the ability to have "Private" groups

Someone may want to start a group of say people in PA, it would be by invitation only because this group feels they know each other well enough to exchange addresses etc and they don't want that on a message board. Yes they could set up their own chat but if a message board has private groups why not just set one up there.

It isn't any more exclusive then having a church where a family is having a family reunion, uses the church building but OBVIOUSLY isn't going to invite the whole church.

Now this family rents the building...it isn't a church event...but the family still must obey the rules that the church has if they want to rent the building...if they don't want to follow the rules they can find another building.


Thank you Mods/Admins for keeping this a safe place AND for not treating us like little children.

Thank you Mamabear1963 for taking the time to explain the groups. Your analogy is very good. I was really confused about all the hoopla but I have been on this earth long enough to understand that all groups have their problems from time to time due to members that choose to blurr the guidelines. Even happened at my church not long ago. Just human beings being human, huh? Thanks again for your help. :blowkiss:

 

[yosande]

I am going to share my thoughts because I feel partly responsible for the groups getting shut down - then go into hiding because quite honestly I don't know how much more of this I can take lol. I requested a social group to sleuth the Sheffield side of the family in the Haleigh Cummings case. The intent was not to exclude anyone it was to create an environment that we could actually sleuth and be productive. In the rumor threads if the Sheffield name was mentioned all heck would break lose and the thread would shut down it was way more than just "challenging" someones theory or thoughts. I really thought the rumor thread posters that did not want to see or discuss the name Sheffield would be relieved and the rumor thread would not get shut down. Sometimes due to frustration the SG would get off topic and then get back on track, we as a group uncovered amazing amounts of information. Hours and hours of research was done. There was no family members in there hiding giving us info as some have suggested. When it was brought to everyones attention in the rumor thread that I opened this group I was called every name in the book, called a liar, accused of helping cover up a murder and being in love with RC. I witnessed a side of WS posters that I never dreamed existed.

Some of these same WS posters that I had grown to respect, are now hitting all the various forums spouting lies about me, making fun of me, creating user hats pretending to be me and spouting garbage. I truly don't understand the mentality of it all but my mind does not work that way.

Had I know that requesting a social group to work on a missing childs case was going to create this type of drama and hurt so many people I would of never made the request to admin for the group. So if the groups do come back I will not join one. Live and learn I guess.

End of rant, and I am sorry to those that felt like I was excluding you in any way by having the group that was not my intent.

I'm glad I missed the drama in the SG, b/c the RT was bad enough.
I would very much have liked an RT for each position though, so people wouldn't have gotten so upset.
I would have gone over and read the other side, but simply not have posted, and would have hoped the other pov folks would have done the same.
But I guess it doesn't matter now.
Now I just feel lost. I'm not getting any info, and it feels like HC's case is fading farther and farther away, which upsets me b/c she hasn't been found yet.
moo
I joined a few SGs, but didn't often go there, and rarely posted, as I prefer sleuthing.

 

[mommyofthreekidz5]

TxLady you have some really good points, however it was far beyond just challenging theories. It was down right cruel behavior on some and the thread would get shut down every time. Posters would not post because they knew the attacks were coming. Unfortunately for some reason when you are not on the "popular" side of who is guilty some will not allow discussion or debate no matter how hard you try. Moderators had to delete so many attacking post, so unless you were there in real time and saw the attacks I am not sure you would fully understand. Yes I could of gone elsewhere to post, but WS is the best forum out there in my opinion and why should bullies chase people away? Like I stated earlier so much information was uncovered in the SG that could not of been done in the RT and that information was forwarded on to the proper authorities. I have learned more than I every cared to learn about people during this experience and I certainly will be much wiser on the next case I follow.

Thank-you. This is why I have stopped posting also. It got to the point where one poster told me in the thread that my opinion didn't matter and wasn't important and should just be skipped over. The person is still regularly posting, so now I just choose to read .

 

[BeavisMom62]

Actually I first heard of it about a month ago, had no problem with it because I select not to be on all the cases.
I care deeply and do not think it is healthy for me personally to be immersed in more then a couple of cases at one time. So I really did not care.
I found out most recently that it is by invitation, and one gets selected and agreed on by the others
that begun to seem like a privet club and not REALLY about a case, nor about like minded thinking, because if all people thought one way only surly things would be dry, boring not expending
or stimulating. Whatever :blowkiss:
What did Groucho say? "I would not want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member anyway" LOL

Not in all cases, Song. I was a member of the animal welfare group and the recovery group. I don't remember that I was invited, I just requested to join and was accepted. And as far as I know, there was no "selection" or "agreement by others". It wasn't exclusionary or anything. Maybe some of the other SG's were.

I didn't know there were SG's about specific cases, I just thought that they were all groups for people that shared similar interests. I'm actually shocked that this has happened because the groups I was a part of, although I really didn't spend much time there, were friendly, congenial and everyone got along well. I couldn't understand how people could argue about pets, recovery, gardening, etc. Not really "hot-bed" topics in my opinion.

I don't really understand why there would be SGs about cases, when there is the main board to post on in addition to the private forums and RT's. I'm not being argumentative, but wouldn't that be enough? Maybe I just don't get it. As somone else said, when you are posting on WS, you get to know certain people, find people that share similar interests and sometimes want to take a break from sleuthing, so you get together and talk about other things. I realize that WS isn't a social club and is supposed to be for sleuthing but why can't people socialize as well? Someone else said that you can go to Yahoo groups or whatever to find people that share your interests, but for one thing, I already know the people here and don't want to try to get to know new people, alot of those groups aren't well moderated and are unruly, immature or not intelligent. (Sorry don't mean to make such a sweeping statement and apologies in advance to anyone who belongs to any of these groups that AREN'T like this. Its just what I have observed).

Anyway, that is just my two cents. I'm surprised that this has happened. I don't think its fair to get rid of SG's. I just don't understand why there has to be SGs about certain cases when there are all sorts of other places to discuss them. Peace.

 

[little726]

Not in all cases, Song. I was a member of the animal welfare group and the recovery group. I don't remember that I was invited, I just requested to join and was accepted. And as far as I know, there was no "selection" or "agreement by others". It wasn't exclusionary or anything. Maybe some of the other SG's were.

I didn't know there were SG's about specific cases, I just thought that they were all groups for people that shared similar interests. I'm actually shocked that this has happened because the groups I was a part of, although I really didn't spend much time there, were friendly, congenial and everyone got along well. I couldn't understand how people could argue about pets, recovery, gardening, etc. Not really "hot-bed" topics in my opinion.

I don't really understand why there would be SGs about cases, when there is the main board to post on in addition to the private forums and RT's. I'm not being argumentative, but wouldn't that be enough? Maybe I just don't get it. As somone else said, when you are posting on WS, you get to know certain people, find people that share similar interests and sometimes want to take a break from sleuthing, so you get together and talk about other things. I realize that WS isn't a social club and is supposed to be for sleuthing but why can't people socialize as well? Someone else said that you can go to Yahoo groups or whatever to find people that share your interests, but for one thing, I already know the people here and don't want to try to get to know new people, alot of those groups aren't well moderated and are unruly, immature or not intelligent. (Sorry don't mean to make such a sweeping statement and apologies in advance to anyone who belongs to any of these groups that AREN'T like this. Its just what I have observed).

Anyway, that is just my two cents. I'm surprised that this has happened. I don't think its fair to get rid of SG's. I just don't understand why there has to be SGs about certain cases when there are all sorts of other places to discuss them. Peace.

I wasn't aware the SG's were moderated.

 

[stilettos]

TxLady you have some really good points, however it was far beyond just challenging theories. It was down right cruel behavior on some and the thread would get shut down every time. Posters would not post because they knew the attacks were coming. Unfortunately for some reason when you are not on the "popular" side of who is guilty some will not allow discussion or debate no matter how hard you try. Moderators had to delete so many attacking post, so unless you were there in real time and saw the attacks I am not sure you would fully understand. Yes I could of gone elsewhere to post, but WS is the best forum out there in my opinion and why should bullies chase people away? Like I stated earlier so much information was uncovered in the SG that could not of been done in the RT and that information was forwarded on to the proper authorities. I have learned more than I every cared to learn about people during this experience and I certainly will be much wiser on the next case I follow.

Busy - on every side of the equation you will find those saying the other side was cruel and unreasonable. Both SG's discovered much information on differing things. In the beginning it was a healthy place to sleuth without people freaking out and threatening to leave the site because of opposing opinions. I believe that we as adults should be able to disagree passionately and handle someone standing firm on their opinion without crying attack, attack. There have been some incredibly childish things done since the RT and SG's were shut down. Many that came as a shock to me. I miss our Rt and I miss most of you........on both sides of the fence.

 

[stilettos]

I'm glad I missed the drama in the SG, b/c the RT was bad enough.
I would very much have liked an RT for each position though, so people wouldn't have gotten so upset.
I would have gone over and read the other side, but simply not have posted, and would have hoped the other pov folks would have done the same.
But I guess it doesn't matter now.
Now I just feel lost. I'm not getting any info, and it feels like HC's case is fading farther and farther away, which upsets me b/c she hasn't been found yet.
moo
I joined a few SGs, but didn't often go there, and rarely posted, as I prefer sleuthing.

While I personally really enjoyed having a RT of varied views....there were a few times when a poster opened my eyes to a new way of thinking.....I agree that it feels as if HaLeigh's case is the loser here. We need to keep the focus on HaLeigh and it appears there is very little going on in her threads upstairs.

 

[stilettos]

That's not true. What information we did find, has been turned over to LE, maybe the other groups bore no fruit of their labors, but we did. Sometimes what we were looking at didn't pan out, sometimes it did and it was turned over to the proper people.

Has LE come forward stating your "fruit" was productive in solving this case? Many people and the SG's have forwarded info found to the appropriate LE outlet. The attitude that only one SG had sleuthed the "truth" is part of the existing problem. NO ONE has a market on the truth...it is universal and absolute.

 

[stilettos]

JMO - it was not the concept of the Social Groups that failed, it was the posters themselves. For example, one of the groups regarding Haleigh Cummings, because some posters decided to play both sides the groups became ineffective. Because some posters took it upon themselves to take information and identities of some local posters, even relatives names, to other places, it effectively got these local posters to go silent. Not only were these people victimized by the events occurring around them, they became vicitimized at WS of all places. Very disturbing.

These local posters chose the group they wanted to talk to, and they did it this way out of fear of retaliation and because of what they knew. Local posters have long been a rich source of information to WS as they are living in the middle of the nightmare we discuss. They often have information we would not ever become aware of and because they have no "links" they are not permitted to post such information in the normal fashion.

In the Haleigh Cummings case - for some reason some posters believed it acceptable to expose family members, and locals on other boards. When a poster exposes another poster at various other websites - it is solely that poster which is to blame, not the group or anyone else. Some posters don't seem to get it that this isn't about who is right or who is wrong, it is all about a five year old little girl. Sad commentary when posters believe their hurt feelings are more important than a missing child.

The concept of the social group did not fail - only posters themselves failed by playing stupid games. Missing children are not a game.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: You said everything that I thought and MORE!! My heart goes out to the locals who chose to risk in order to help in the HaLeigh Cummings case. The poster that outed their private information because of some perceived slight....SHAME. HaLeigh deserves better. I do not think the SG's or the RT is to blame. It is the fault of those with a lack of integrity who would hurt a person already suffering a loss to further their own agenda. We should all grow up and refocus our attention on the plight of these missing children.

BTW - TopGunner had a tough job moderating in the RT...she had those that were overly sensitive, those that could be childish, those that could be vindictive, those that would/would not listen to another's POV, those that report everything to Mommy Mod and some that were open minded and objective. She handled each and every one with the same even-handed and fair approach. I was proud to be in the thread she moderated. Even when she had to gently push me closer to the TOS line.

 

[badme102]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: You said everything that I thought and MORE!! My heart goes out to the locals who chose to risk in order to help in the HaLeigh Cummings case. The poster that outed their private information because of some perceived slight....SHAME. HaLeigh deserves better. I do not think the SG's or the RT is to blame. It is the fault of those with a lack of integrity who would hurt a person already suffering a loss to further their own agenda. We should all grow up and refocus our attention on the plight of these missing children.

BTW - TopGunner had a tough job moderating in the RT...she had those that were overly sensitive, those that could be childish, those that could be vindictive, those that would/would not listen to another's POV, those that report everything to Mommy Mod and some that were open minded and objective. She handled each and every one with the same even-handed and fair approach. I was proud to be in the thread she moderated. Even when she had to gently push me closer to the TOS line.

My bold. ABSOLUTELY, 100% true that. TopGunner is the best Mod here, IMO. Seriously, who else could have handled us with such dignity and grace, and FAIRNESS.
Thanks, TopGunner! I know we didn't make your job easy.:blowkiss: