Social Groups

[cajun]

I don't follow the HC case nor did I read the HC RT. So my question is this, why was the RT thread busy and the public forum not so much? Are there no facts to investigate? The rumor threads are a relatively new concept that we have never used before and I am still perplexed as to their function exactly. For that reason I have asked other moderators to watch the RT's that are in my forum. I don't follow any of the RT's.
What is the line between speculative gossip and rumor type information? There is no hidden meaning or anything else in this question and I don't have an opinion of them yet because i don't understand them.
Is the fact that the RT's are busier than the fact threads telling?
Is the information gleaned from RT's good information that we want to use here at WS?
Again, these are not loaded questions I am asking because I genuinely don't know but want to.

Answering the bolded part. There is very few facts in this case. These LEOs are the most tight lipped people I have ever seen. So the facts have been gone over, hammered out till there's nothing left to hammer, and combed with a fine tooth comb. Until someone is arrested and Sunshine Law kicks in or LE decides to loosen their lips, we are kind of at a stand still. Most of the rumors that were on the rumor thread have been debunked, but they have spread all over the internet as fact.

 

[stilettos]

Thanks Stillettos. How is it determined what is valid and useful? Again, I don't want my questions to be taken any way except for what they are at face value, trying to get educated on the inner workings of the RT's.

To me valid would be things that have relevance to the particular case and useful would be determined by LE. Valid and useful might also be for sleuthing and coming to a conclusion regarding the viability of a theory of the crime.

Truthful is another issue and that would be determined by provable facts. Such as arrest records, admissions of guilt, witness statements and on and on...Hope that didn't confuse you even more.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I, for one, welcomed one of the groups I belong(ed) too. It was a place where we could discuss a case without having to "walk on egg shells." I very seldom post on the main board anymore. Everytime I do, there is someone right behind me telling me my link was wrong, or that I can't post a persons name, even though it is public knowledge.

I have really enjoyed coming to WS. There is so much information here. But my gosh...what's the sense of posting, if there is someone on your back?

Now that I have spoke my peace, I'll probably get TO or banned. This is the fear some of us face.

Shame on the one's who talk about others behind closed doors.

bold is mine-

ITA!

 

[elle1919]

Thank-you. This is why I have stopped posting also. It got to the point where one poster told me in the thread that my opinion didn't matter and wasn't important and should just be skipped over. The person is still regularly posting, so now I just choose to read .

Why do you care what another poster says about your opinion or theories? Don't you value them? Look I have only been a member here since last fall but that does not give anyone the right to tell me my opinion is unworthy. I post what I think or feel about a case and I am not looking for a big long list of names to appear under the "thanks" at the end of my post. I am looking to provoke thought and spark ideas and usually attract a poster of the opposite opinion because when someone of the opposite opinion works against my thought, it causes me to look deeper and work harder to get to the truth. Isn't the truth what we all want? I had an idea about these social groups because I have been working in the HC threads for the past month and no-one was around. When I went down to the RT and posted no-one usually responded to anything I said unless I was speaking out in support of the Sheffield side of the family. That was fine and dandy with me though, I just kept right on posting and I still will because of one thing, Haleigh is still out there....the truth is still out there, the forum's are supposed to be to keep all the info on her in one easy to find place so who are you benefiting by hiding all your hard work in a social group?

Look I didn't belong to any group, and I wouldn't care if there was a social group again, I just ask one thing....if the social groups do come back, please post things of value on the forum as well so us that understand your cause but refrain from joining a group can still keep up to date. To me, everyone matters...especially those who's opinion is un-like mine....gosh I can't stress that enough.

 

[TxLady2]

I hope you don't mind my using your post to extend my point that I posted previously, Stilettos.

This is where I'm coming from. If there are SG's that discuss a case only between only invited participants, this is where, imvho, a discussion difficulty begins with the rest of members posting. No other poster has any idea what is going on between a group. So, if something comes up that a Joe Schmoe questions regarding what others may have talked about between them, it is addressed not in the most polite of ways. Well, from what I have witnessed, anyway. That is unfair to other members involved in a case. If any person chooses to talk about a case outside, cool. Personally or somewhere. Great. I have absolutely no problem with that. Honestly, I don't care. But, when it is within our own "house", I have found it seems to cause more problems than help others.

I see no reason for any groups here. Way back when, there was a forum shut down because it got ugly and to be sure, that was never suppose to be a forum for attacks. However, it happened and it was painful to see, read, and witness. WS's, fwiw for me, is a site for all. Discuss, debate, agree, disagree, make friends, or not so much. But, at the very least, we are *all* on equal posting ground. That is important to me. Not just as a poster, but as a poster who believes this "home" can be more than so many others out there in website world. Frankly, there are too many out there that scare the bejezus out me. That is one of the reasons I love WS's.

Ramble over....

Great points! And I have seen exactly what you are talking about in other sites. The bigger the forum, the more fighting and backstabbing goes on.
What the main problem is, too many people take it to a personal level and from there it gets seriously messed up, and the whole purpose of being here is forgotten in the desire to be proved right.

Why should there be a private group for either side? Saying it was to sleuth sensitive information that couldn't be discussed even on the RT is ridiculous, because if it's that sensitive it shouldn't be discussed ANYWHERE!!

I suspect that the discussions in these groups wasn't confined to sleuthing the family members on either side in this case... I think maybe it got to the point that certain posters here on WS and even on other boards were sleuthed... for what reason I can't imagine, other than to point fingers and make fun of them, and that is wrong! It has now got to the point that it's hard to know who to trust, and who your friends are. But what most seem to forget is that WS is not here for us to make friends and form our own social network... it's here for those who want to follow certain cases and be able to debate the various merits of the case. We should not have to be babysat!

We are all adults... why can't we act like adults instead of throwing tantrums and stomping off to pout and whine about how unfair we were treated or how mean the mods were! We should not feel we have to go into a closet somewhere with our little friends and whisper and giggle about the rest of the bunch! Are we forgetting about Haleigh? It doesn't matter if some believe Ronald is the culprit while others believe Crystal is, it doesn't matter if some want to believe all the gossip and rumors about each side of the family going back 3 generations... what matters is that there is a little girl who is missing... who needs BOTH her parents and she needs to be home! Her families love her and they need to know where she is!

I think a lot of folks should just GROW UP!!

 

[stilettos]

Great points! And I have seen exactly what you are talking about in other sites. The bigger the forum, the more fighting and backstabbing goes on.
What the main problem is, too many people take it to a personal level and from there it gets seriously messed up, and the whole purpose of being here is forgotten in the desire to be proved right.

Why should there be a private group for either side? Saying it was to sleuth sensitive information that couldn't be discussed even on the RT is ridiculous, because if it's that sensitive it shouldn't be discussed ANYWHERE!!

I suspect that the discussions in these groups wasn't confined to sleuthing the family members on either side in this case... I think maybe it got to the point that certain posters here on WS and even on other boards were sleuthed... for what reason I can't imagine, other than to point fingers and make fun of them, and that is wrong! It has now got to the point that it's hard to know who to trust, and who your friends are. But what most seem to forget is that WS is not here for us to make friends and form our own social network... it's here for those who want to follow certain cases and be able to debate the various merits of the case. We should not have to be babysat!

We are all adults... why can't we act like adults instead of throwing tantrums and stomping off to pout and whine about how unfair we were treated or how mean the mods were! We should not feel we have to go into a closet somewhere with our little friends and whisper and giggle about the rest of the bunch! Are we forgetting about Haleigh? It doesn't matter if some believe Ronald is the culprit while others believe Crystal is, it doesn't matter if some want to believe all the gossip and rumors about each side of the family going back 3 generations... what matters is that there is a little girl who is missing... who needs BOTH her parents and she needs to be home! Her families love her and they need to know where she is!

I think a lot of folks should just GROW UP!!

BBM I can assure you that I was never in a group that did anything of this sort. I do not agree with sleuthing personal identities of anyone online and definately do not agree with outing personal info online. This was done here in the SG's but not anywhere that I was party to it. I find that beyond the pale.

 

[mommyofthreekidz5]

Why do you care what another poster says about your opinion or theories? Don't you value them? Look I have only been a member here since last fall but that does not give anyone the right to tell me my opinion is unworthy. I post what I think or feel about a case and I am not looking for a big long list of names to appear under the "thanks" at the end of my post. I am looking to provoke thought and spark ideas and usually attract a poster of the opposite opinion because when someone of the opposite opinion works against my thought, it causes me to look deeper and work harder to get to the truth. Isn't the truth what we all want? I had an idea about these social groups because I have been working in the HC threads for the past month and no-one was around. When I went down to the RT and posted no-one usually responded to anything I said unless I was speaking out in support of the Sheffield side of the family. That was fine and dandy with me though, I just kept right on posting and I still will because of one thing, Haleigh is still out there....the truth is still out there, the forum's are supposed to be to keep all the info on her in one easy to find place so who are you benefiting by hiding all your hard work in a social group?

Look I didn't belong to any group, and I wouldn't care if there was a social group again, I just ask one thing....if the social groups do come back, please post things of value on the forum as well so us that understand your cause but refrain from joining a group can still keep up to date. To me, everyone matters...especially those who's opinion is un-like mine....gosh I can't stress that enough.

I had started a social group, but never posted there but once and I had it public I believe . I understand where you are coming from and that is exactly what I meant. Everytime I posted unless it was in complete support of The Sheffield side, I was ignored sometimes. You are right HaLeigh is too important to let anyone stop me from posting my thoughts. Its just the tremendous amount of stress I am going through daily, then hours upon hours of bickering was getting overwhelming .

 

[OrdinaryLife]

BBM I can assure you that I was never in a group that did anything of this sort. I do not agree with sleuthing personal identities of anyone online and definately do not agree with outing personal info online. This was done here in the SG's but not anywhere that I was party to it. I find that beyond the pale.

This I find *very* disturbing and I had a former poster do this with my nic. Unfortunately, for them, the "info" that they found could not have been more wrong. And, what is the purpose??? See, this is my point. It becomes about the member and not a case. It is personal and that is *not*, imvho, what this site is about. Who needs the drama of "power struggles" over another poster? I do not mean this as a smarta$$, but really? I find it tragic on every level.

Yes, thankfully, there a many, many wonderful people here that contribute beyond what I ever have at WS's. That is fact. I admire them to the point where words fail me. There are posters who have, well, issues. That also is a fact. Big, broad, and demographically huge member site. However, to take it up a notch where any person feels they have the right to literally hurt another by rumor and innuendo is just wrong. What about the case? The missing person? The Cold Case? The victim? What I have read, just for me, are many posts directed toward another. I am not "clean" as I have reacted to posts myself. Not proud of that. At all. One thing I would never, ever do is take a fellow poster and trash them. Out where members could read it or in any SG forum. Ever.

I never knew about SG's. Wasn't "invited" to any. Frankly, at this point, I am glad. I would rather be on fair post flooring with everyone than have my posts be slanted because of private discussion.

imvho

 

[Tricia]

IMO this has nothing to do with hurt feelings, theories or information challenged. It has to do with gang and bully mentality that occurred by certain posters. In addition, to lack of respect being shown to posters participating in the discussion. It would also help if posters took personal responsibility for their own actions vs blaming it on other posters or the mods.

THANK YOU Busylady,

As I re-read this thread again I feel that some of you might think we, as in the mods, admins, and owner, are being too sensitive. That the SG's hurt our feelings.

Not so. Not so at all. It is like BL just said. When it became the gang mentality, when people said awful things about our mods and about WS yet, continued to use our forum every day, when the negativity started to build, that's when we had to put our foot down and close out the SG's.

This type of behavior does nothing but harm and cause major drama. If we ignore it and let it roll off our backs within a few weeks you would see so much out of control hate and drama it could bring the board down. I have seen it happen. Two times. Two HUGE boards. Both brought down when one discussion got out of hand.

 

[Tricia]

Thank-you. This is why I have stopped posting also. It got to the point where one poster told me in the thread that my opinion didn't matter and wasn't important and should just be skipped over. The person is still regularly posting, so now I just choose to read .

PLEASE HIT YOUR ALERT BUTTON. No one is allowed to tell another poster that their opinion does not matter. OMG. that burns me like you don't know.

I know sometimes when you hit the alert nothing might be done about your complaint. That is a judgement call on the mod's part.

BUT, if someone insults you like that did mommy and you hit the alert and nothing happens? Email me. There are times when we are so overloaded that somethin might slip through. Doesn't happen often.

This is one of my biggest peeves about people and discussion boards. Everyone's opinions matter. That is one of the main reasons I took over WS. I felt there were so many great people out there who were not getting heard. Who felt like they didn't matter when the opposite is true.

Ok, have to go find a freeze to walk into. Need to cool down.

 

[Knot4u2no]

I have only read a few posts in this thread, but I would like to add my penny. I can't afford 2 cents. I had hoped to figure out a way for certain types of cases to be in the SG category ... so those controling these private discussions could work on their particular cases without any outside interference. I thought it would be a good format to allow those with the knowledge about a particular individual in a case to use my profiling technique without having to worry about the public disclosure in their particular case. I'm interested in solving cold cases, profiling suspects, profiling abusers, etc. ... I thought the SG forum might be a way to keep it private and keep it focused. My intention was to use it, as my time permitted, to explore how this might work. Personally, I'm sorry SGs did not work out.

Russell

 

[OrdinaryLife]

From my heart, an honest question. How was having a SG discussion, keeping it private and focused within only certain members a benefit? If we are members of WS's, we joined because of cases and the interest of a case (or more). How is having a private area a benefit to members who are excluded from such discussion/debate of theories and possibilities? From where I sit, I am not better nor worse than any member here and I *love* to be enlightened in posting conversations. Many times I have been given a "a-ha" moment from another poster that I never considered before. Again, it goes back, for me, having posts open equally for discussion regarding a case. Any case. To have a group only takes away from what I may learn from others as it has shown, to me, that those in the know have a more fixed position than I might. So, my thoughts or questions are lost and judged. That is not being open. It is literally fighting for being heard as an equal as a poster. I'm not brilliant nor should my posts mean anymore than anyone else's, but they are still mine and no less valuable than any other posters should be.

I have found it to be very frustrating as of late to post. I hate that. It never was like that before, but I do find myself shying away and even afraid/apologizing that I may have caused an issue. I don't know. I feel as if something has been lost. It saddens me. Alot.

 

[Knot4u2no]

From my heart, an honest question. How was having a SG discussion, keeping it private and focused within only certain members a benefit? If we are members of WS's, we joined because of cases and the interest of a case (or more). How is having a private area a benefit to members who are excluded from such discussion/debate of theories and possibilities? From where I sit, I am not better nor worse than any member here and I *love* to be enlightened in posting conversations. Many times I have been given a "a-ha" moment from another poster that I never considered before. Again, it goes back, for me, having posts open equally for discussion regarding a case. Any case. To have a group only takes away from what I may learn from others as it has shown, to me, that those in the know have a more fixed position than I might. So, my thoughts or questions are lost and judged. That is not being open. It is literally fighting for being heard as an equal as a poster. I'm not brilliant nor should my posts mean anymore than anyone else's, but they are still mine and no less valuable than any other posters should be.

I have found it to be very frustrating as of late to post. I hate that. It never was like that before, but I do find myself shying away and even afraid/apologizing that I may have caused an issue. I don't know. I feel as if something has been lost. It saddens me. Alot.

I was thinking about cases or situations that are too personal or risky to discuss in a public forum.

Russell

 

[Animal04216]

Actually, you recieved it for a very valid reason. Kinda funny that you would make a comment here about running to mods after the post you recieved it for isnt it? Oh, and you are a male right?

and am still pissed off about it. I think the moderators exercise WAY too much control over what's allowable and what isn't. I mean, Christ, we're NOT Jane Marple and this forum is no pinky-fingered tea party with iced cakes and dandelion wine. (Or it shouldn't be.) We're all adults and if someone gets rubbed the wrong way, s/he (usually she, predictably) ought to be able to take it on the chin and not run crying to the moderators to ban somebody, for the love of God. I mean, honestly. Ladies out there: GROW A SPINE.

 

[christine2448]

Heck, I had forgotten all about them, lol.

Me too! LOL!

 

[marla]

I never thought about the social groups as excluding others. I viewed the private rooms as a place of safety for WS members, especially 'locals' who might not feel comfortable sharing some aspects of a case on the main forum. I know one group that I belonged to was created for privacy reasons as some members on the main thread suddenly developed computer problems. EVery time we tried to post, several of us would get knocked offline. One member had a 'new user' added to their computer and had to have the whole thing rebuilt. I had a new printer added to my computer from somewhere and also had my phishing filter and security disabled. One member stopped posting altogether out of fear. Not saying it is WS fault but it was ironic that this happened to several posters on the same thread at the same time. I do miss the groups and am saddened that some were abusing them as I felt they were a nice feature to WS. But I'll accept that they are gone. I'll just be more reticent now.

Respectfully, waltzingmatilda

To me Social Groups are just that, social groups ..
The gathering of like-minded individuals ..
Why some feel they are shut out if not a member is beyond me ..
Tons of Message Boards allow Social Groups ..

Btw - Who is WS Administrator?
A "named" mod didn't even want to post the OP???

LMFAO ..

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

JMO - it was not the concept of the Social Groups that failed, it was the posters themselves. For example, one of the groups regarding Haleigh Cummings, because some posters decided to play both sides the groups became ineffective. Because some posters took it upon themselves to take information and identities of some local posters, even relatives names, to other places, it effectively got these local posters to go silent. Not only were these people victimized by the events occurring around them, they became vicitimized at WS of all places. Very disturbing.

These local posters chose the group they wanted to talk to, and they did it this way out of fear of retaliation and because of what they knew. Local posters have long been a rich source of information to WS as they are living in the middle of the nightmare we discuss. They often have information we would not ever become aware of and because they have no "links" they are not permitted to post such information in the normal fashion.

In the Haleigh Cummings case - for some reason some posters believed it acceptable to expose family members, and locals on other boards. When a poster exposes another poster at various other websites - it is solely that poster which is to blame, not the group or anyone else. Some posters don't seem to get it that this isn't about who is right or who is wrong, it is all about a five year old little girl. Sad commentary when posters believe their hurt feelings are more important than a missing child.

The concept of the social group did not fail - only posters themselves failed by playing stupid games. Missing children are not a game.

Could not have said it any better...:blowkiss:

Some people, IMHO, go overboard in their personal involvements and therein lies a major problem.

 

[blupencl]

I was thinking about cases or situations that are too personal or risky to discuss in a public forum.

Russell

Okay. This is my question. What does that mean? That's what I have been wondering all along. Thanks.

 

[Knot4u2no]

Okay. This is my question. What does that mean? That's what I have been wondering all along. Thanks.

Suppose you have a relative who is the victim of a crime and you have a suspect in mind. Identifying the suspect in a public forum would not be a good idea. Or, suppose you were the victim of a crime, such as rape or molestation, and you wanted to establish a profile of the criminal, not for public consumption but for your own benefit. There are many reasons someone might want to have a private forum to address a personal matter.

Russell

 

[ArizonaGiGi]

With that said, if there is a valid reason for having a group to discuss one of the cases that certain people are excluded from, we'd love to have it explained. We (the moderators) tossed it around for days and couldn't come up with anything, but we're open minded. However, simply not wanting to have your point of view challenged isn't a good reason, in fact, it's a very bad one. People don't learn and grow that way. I would have no interest in such a thing myself.

I am posting before reading the entire thread. Perhaps someone else has brought this up. The purpose of the private group that I belonged to was safety. ANY yay-hoo can read the things that are posted on the general threads without ever even joining WS. That includes the murderers. It was necessary to have a private place to post because some of our members were locals from a very small town and it had put them in danger to post on the main threads WHERE JUST ANY OLE BODY CAN READ. This was brought to the attention of mods/owner.

I am really disappointed in this decision by WS to remove the private rooms. I feel like I am in 2nd grade again. The whole class is being punished because two kids talked out loud. The whole class is having to skip recess because of only 2 kids. I'm not sure what is going on behind the scenes but it seems something is amiss besides some people talking about a mod or other members.