Sources: Casey Anthony Intentionally Killed Caylee

[FightTheOstrich]

That's a good point - but I still think that might be argued by the defense as "accidental death" if somehow chloroform was involved with the cloth (though the kind of abuse that would result in felony murder due to sedation would be hard to see as "accidental"). However, KC's story could involve it being a "one-time" incident to "sedate" Caylee after the "horrible fight" with nowhere to go, only intending to sedate but not to kill. All total bunk of course, but still with enough doubt to perhaps convince a jury.

But if she used the duct tape AT ANY TIME before that baby had actually expired, it completely negates that explanation and would move it straight to intentional I would think.

If you mean the kind of cloth that could have served as a ligature, then that would be another story of course and the duct tape part would simply support a staged kidnapping coverup.

Hard to argue that she used the chloroform just that one time to quiet Caylee. Most people don't have a stash of it in their cars and last time I checked you can't buy it @ Target.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Surely the blow flies could be feasting on other meat scraps in trunk, or it could be argued that way?

It could be argued that way I guess, but that was a "closed bag" according to the report and LE had it quickly, so it may not stand up. I don't know if they will go to rotten meat from a body or not.

I really don't think so because in the pupa stage,(before turning into flies) they move away from the body and don't eat at all. That can take 7-14 days.

 

[static]

that is so true...yes she would have been really sorry and showed more emotion had it been accidental...i would have made a lousy lawyer

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I think that number is shrinking because it does not pass the sniff test and instead suggests a rather complex and diabolical conspiracy.

We can establish via videos and eyewitness testimony Caylee was alive the afternoon of the 15th.

George said he saw her leave with KC just before 1 on the 16th. There is no logical reason for George to lie about this, so was he confused?

Well, KC's cell phone pings all morning and up to about 4:15PM from the parent's.

The home computer shows activity in the morning that ends just before 1 (when George says he saw them leave) and restarts around 2 (after George left for work).

The home computer activity includes an upload to KC's Photobucket.

JG says he hears Caylee in the background during his 2:50 PM call with KC.
​

Just too much circumstantial evidence supporting a live Caylee up to 3 PM on the 16th.

JG retracted his story about hearing Caylee.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

That photo doesn't tell me that George is crying over Caylee. He could have had a fight with Cindy and had a headache. He could have been talking on the phone. I don't see the point of that photo here.

It doesn't make me feel sorry for someone who knowingly drove a car while smelling the decomposition of his granddaughter instead of calling LE immediately before moving the car! George told LE later that he basically knew it was decomp...yet professes it was pizza, dead squirrels, etc. to anyone else who would listen. He never called LE to report the decomp and it slipped out of Cindy's mouth when she called because she was in a rage over the car and the money!! It is ridiculous!

LE seems to have determined that the trunk would have smelled like decomp on the 24th if Casey dumped the body on the 18th, too. There was another time that George must have conveniently forgotten that the car smelled like decomp. This is another of his conflicting stories, too. Not to mention...he filed a police report and found out supposedly his daughter did it...but he didn't tell LE.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I posted this in the Nancy Grace thread, but I think this one is more appropriate..Ok, I have a thought as to how they knew Caylee's death wasn't an accident. When I heard on Nancy that it is confirmed that the duct tape was around Caylee's mouth, I immediately thought of something from the JonBenet case..Steve Thomas wrote in his book about the case that one of the reasons he thought the Ramsey's faked JonBenet's kidnapping was the duct tape found on her mouth..heres an excerpt: As part of her staging, Thomas wrote that Patsy put a strip of duct tape over JonBenet's mouth. "There was bloody mucus under the tape, and a perfect set of the child's lip prints, which did not indicate a tongue impression or resistance," indicating that JonBenet had not been alive when the tape was affixed to her mouth. So if Casey's fingerprints were found on the duct tape, and evidence of resistance wouldn't that point to intentional murder? If it was determined the taped was placed when Caylee was alive that def. squashes the whole "terrible accident and mother panics and fakes a kidnapping" theory. And just to be clear, since someone misunderstood me on the other thread, I am saying that if they found CASEY'S fingerprint's and signs of resistance on the ducktape around Caylees mouth (showing she was ALIVE when the duck tape was placed there) that would indicate that not only did Casey kill her, but that it was INTENTIONAL. If Casey were to change her story to that she accidently killed Caylee and in a panic tried to cover it up w/ a kidnapping, she would have had to have placed the ducktape on Caylee after she had died. I was misunderstood before as some thought that I meant it had been an accident, which I don't, I sadly knew it was intentional from day one =(.

You're Good!

 

[HRCODEPINK]

the Caylee is Missing myspace was NOT created before she went missing. KC and CA just changed the name of KC's myspace (I believe after the police left that first night) in some sort of an attempt to "reach out" to all her friends.

This misconception comes from people viewing the 'date created' on the page (which would be when KC initially joined myspace), seeing the Caylee is Missing title, and reaching that conclusion. When you sign up for myspace, you pretty much get a blank page. YOu can do what you want with it, update however you want, etc.... but it will always show your original join date. I could change my myspace site right now to read "Casey Did It" and it would still show my join date of 2007. It can see how easy it is to jump to conclusions from there...

Thank you for responding on this because I really didn't remember seeing it. And I have been looking now since I saw that and I still can't find a source or screen shot or post on that.

However, just playing a little devil's advocate here. IIRC KC had her own myspace separate which she also changed. I can't remember which page on myspace tells you when a person joined, or if you have to be friends to find that out. I do remember though that when you set up a myspace there is a long URL that is yours that is a pain to give friends. That's why they allow you to set up your own address, her's was myspace.com/caseyomarie, or something to that effect. This one is myspace.com/cayleeismissing. Why would her personal page have that as the URL that you can give to friends to help find you if the page was created before she went missing. I am certain that when you set that page up an alert box pops up and asks you if you are sure that you want this as your URL, then when you say yes, another one pops up and says that they are serious, you cannot change this address ever for any reason. Still looking for the source. I think that maybe there was confusion on the missing child sites searches and this missing Caylee page and that maybe the poster got this mixed up. If I am wrong on this, I apologize. I just can't imagine that I missed something this big (and I lurked for a WHILE before I joined) and from reading thru this thread I wasn't the only one who missed it.

 

[radio]

Hard to argue that she used the chloroform just that one time to quiet Caylee. Most people don't have a stash of it in their cars and last time I checked you can't buy it @ Target.

True. Love your Avatar too.

Finger prints on the duct tape or in the bag is what I have been holding out for. If they find that - done deal.

 

[cecybeans]

Bold Mine

Yes As In JonBenets (staging if you go down the theory that the parent/s did it which I do)

That is what I was saying yes she did it but was it indeed intentional/ premeditated ?
But then why the looking up of all the other things on google ?
Unless she looked up Chloroform because of that picture she was sent
and when looking it led to one thing to another to another
How many times do you go somewhere and the next hour later youve looked at 20 pages ! that all link ....

(ok exaggeration but still it happens)

All that could be co-incedental

And she did kill Caylee in a fit of rage and then made up this elaborate story using twists and turns as she went along making them all up

And the 31 days was the time to plot it all out..

The partying could have been her way of pretending it didnt happen.. or making sure that she was acting normal so no one got suspicious

How she EVER thought she would get away with killing a child and no one suspecting her and investigating her is beyond me.

What a waste of a life 22 years old had the world before her, had a beautiful daughter and parents that cared enough about her to help her raise that child and now her child is dead and she will either be executed or remain in jail for the remainder of her life - which could be another 60 years ..

She had it all.

I like where you are coming from on this (as well as the JBR case). And I agree that at some point KC was contemplating getting rid of any number of family members with all that googling. However, it might be argued that her impulsivity and lack of planning apparent in most of the behavior we have seen in her make me think that this was less thought out - more spur of the moment or after-the-fact, and badly constructed at that. (Pardon the pun but this girl was no event planner.)

Although those searches - even though someone here pointed out are rather cursory and lasted all of about 12 minutes - could make a jury think she had definitely contemplated murder several months earlier, I am hoping that something on the duct tape itself indicated that this specific act was positively intentional and not just from the cumulative effect of the other circumstantial evidence, excellent as it may be. Something to have suddenly changed the minds of the experts.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Again, assuming any maggots of blow flies were collected.

This is going back to LP but he said on TV that they were testing the larvae, pupa and the flies from that bag. He also said there were some on the outside of the bag also which falls right in line with what the yard man said.

 

[Rumpole]

It could be argued that way I guess, but that was a "closed bag" according to the report and LE had it quickly, so it may not stand up. I don't know if they will go to rotten meat from a body or not.

I really don't think so because in the pupa stage,(before turning into flies) they move away from the body and don't eat at all. That can take 7-14 days.

I tried before to sort out if the bag was closed. I hope it was. Are you sure of that?

 

[JWG]

JG retracted his story about hearing Caylee.

He retracted his story about hearing her on the 24th - the "get off the table incident." He did not retract his story about hearing her just before 3PM on the 16th.

 

[Rumpole]

JG retracted his story about hearing Caylee.

JG retracted his story in regards to 24th but not 16th

SNAP

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Nowadays even if there was live video footage of a crime we would have a WS thread debating whether or not the video was doctored.

Daylight, no it's dawn, no it's just the sun shining.:bang:

 

[JBean]

JG retracted his story about hearing Caylee.

I thought that was a different call on a later date wasn't it? I have to go look, it's all running together.

 

[autumnlover]

I posted this in the Nancy Grace thread, but I think this one is more appropriate..Ok, I have a thought as to how they knew Caylee's death wasn't an accident. When I heard on Nancy that it is confirmed that the duct tape was around Caylee's mouth, I immediately thought of something from the JonBenet case..Steve Thomas wrote in his book about the case that one of the reasons he thought the Ramsey's faked JonBenet's kidnapping was the duct tape found on her mouth..heres an excerpt: As part of her staging, Thomas wrote that Patsy put a strip of duct tape over JonBenet's mouth. "There was bloody mucus under the tape, and a perfect set of the child's lip prints, which did not indicate a tongue impression or resistance," indicating that JonBenet had not been alive when the tape was affixed to her mouth. So if Casey's fingerprints were found on the duct tape, and evidence of resistance wouldn't that point to intentional murder? If it was determined the taped was placed when Caylee was alive that def. squashes the whole "terrible accident and mother panics and fakes a kidnapping" theory. And just to be clear, since someone misunderstood me on the other thread, I am saying that if they found CASEY'S fingerprint's and signs of resistance on the ducktape around Caylees mouth (showing she was ALIVE when the duck tape was placed there) that would indicate that not only did Casey kill her, but that it was INTENTIONAL. If Casey were to change her story to that she accidently killed Caylee and in a panic tried to cover it up w/ a kidnapping, she would have had to have placed the ducktape on Caylee after she had died. I was misunderstood before as some thought that I meant it had been an accident, which I don't, I sadly knew it was intentional from day one =(.

This makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't be surprised if if the evidence turns out to be as logical as this. Thanks for the insight!

 

[static]

maybe they found a rag with chloroform on it at the house , possibly with her prints on it as well or something like cholorform on the duct tape i do not know if that is even possible

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Or if the duct tape shows that Caylee tried to remove it.

 

[evergreen]

Oh wow really. So if someone loses it for that brief moment in time (not referring necessarily to Casey here) and kills someone thats a DP crime ?

we no longer accept "losing it" or "I just snapped" as a defense for murder. You might say we've smartened up as a society.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Not quite, because cell phone and computer usage establish the fact that KC returned to the home after George left. JG claimed to hear Caylee in the background of his call with KC just before 3 - over an hour after George left. IMHO that was sufficient time for KC and Caylee to change clothes, possibly into swimsuits.

George loved his grand-daughter, probably more than anyone. He had no reason to lie about this.

If he had loved his granddaughter, Caylee would have been found and laid to rest months ago. Not one member of that family actually knows what love is. My gut tells me that this former cop started to suspect that something was terribly wrong w/i a couple of days his girls "moving out" or taking their "mini-vacation" or whatever else this family has said. Had either of these grandparents truly loved Caylee they would have either gotten help for KC or sought custody of Caylee. They are cowards and have paid the ultimate price but I will never believe that they really know what love is. Their actions speak louder than words. Not sure where that picture came from but my guess is that he was either acting or was upset about something other than his granddaughter. Grieving grandparents aren't usually composed enough to cover-up murder.