NOTGUILTY South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #5

[PrimeSuspect]

This sounds unlikely to me, that a person who did not fire a weapon would get residue on web between finger and thumb, just where you'd get it if you had fired?

Just taking a guess, hand with glove is open while shooter's hand has gun clasped tightly by fingers.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Leigh-Anne Jansen ‏@LA_JANSEN 3m3 minutes ago

Still trying to establish whether the fact that primer residue was found on the web of Qwabe's glove, makes him the shooter.

 

[zwiebel]

Leila Samodien ‏@Leila_Luck 3 mins3 minutes ago

#DewaniTrial She repeats that in an enclosed area - like a vehicle - primer residue particles will settle on all exposed areas.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Leigh-Anne Jansen ‏@LA_JANSEN 34s34 seconds ago

These primer residue results were only made available after the defence requested a report, before this trial.


(It's interesting how defence waited until now, I've got to hand it to them, they've done a good job so far. imo )

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Leigh-Anne Jansen ‏@LA_JANSEN 3m3 minutes ago

Hendrikse admitted to an oversight. The results were not used in the trial of Xolile Mngeni, convicted as the triggerman.

PB: How long should it take for that report to make its way to the Investigating Officer?

TM: I can't answer that.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Leigh-Anne Jansen ‏@LA_JANSEN 3m3 minutes ago

PB: Would it surprise you to know that the report was only made available at the request of the defence in August this year?

TM: Yes, My Lady.

PB: That's not the way things are done at your office?

TM: I can't answer that.

Traverso: Shouldn't you have asked that to the investigating officer?

PB: Yes My Lady. I have no further questions.

 

[zwiebel]

RAHIMA ESSOP ‏@rahimaessop 3 mins3 minutes ago

#DewaniTrial Botha: this report came to light 3 and a half years later, find that surprising? TM: we responsible until we post report. RE

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Leigh-Anne Jansen ‏@LA_JANSEN 3m3 minutes ago

Traverso: Do you have any records of when this was posted?

TM: I won't be able to provide a record.


Court adjourns until Monday morning

 

[zwiebel]

RAHIMA ESSOP ‏@rahimaessop 1 min1 minute ago

#DewaniTrial Judge:do you have any idea when the report Jan 2011 whether or when it was posted? TM: don't think we have record. RE

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Maybe, Hendrikse will be recalled to the stand on Monday?

 

[zwiebel]

vanessa poonah ‏@vanessapoonah01 2 mins2 minutes ago

#DewaniTrial TM concedes its surprising the report was only made available at the request of the defence in August this year. #sabcnews

Adjourned

 

[zwiebel]

Has that added anything to the state's case against Dewani, do we think?

To me, it just seems it has diverted attention away again, to questions about the thoroughness and professionalism of police investigations and reports.

 

[KING Charles]

Back later, thanks so much for the tweets.:cheers:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Has that added anything to the state's case against Dewani, do we think?

To me, it just seems it has diverted attention away again, to questions about the thoroughness and professionalism of police investigations and reports.

I've thought about it, and it's about discrediting everyone, all witnesses against SD are liars. Even poor Sneha, Anni's closest friend and confidante was made to feel like she didn't know Anni at all. Another unreliable witness. JMO

 

[zwiebel]

Sigh. State asked for this adjournment. So it sounds like they were not prepared to continue, even though they had called the witness and must have known their examination wouldn't take long.

Unless they expected the cross to go on for much longer?

O/T But did SA Parliament go into some kind of meltdown yesterday?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Sigh. State asked for this adjournment. So it sounds like they were not prepared to continue, even though they had called the witness and must have known their examination wouldn't take long.

Unless they expected the cross to go on for much longer?

O/T But did SA Parliament go into some kind of meltdown yesterday?

Yes, more important matters for people of SA at the moment.

 

[patCee]

Well that didn't take us anywhere. Complete waste of time with no real new information, and still left with did he, or didn't he (Qwabi)?

Thanks for the tweets Prime and Zwiebel.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I am absolutely hopeless at describing anything, so I've got a couple of pictures that help me to visualize the scene.

The shooter will have residue on hand that held gun but imo, not in web of fingers unless they used both hands, one over the other. Qwabe was driving at the time, Mngeni was not.

I'm imagining Qwabe with the yellow gloves on his hands while on steering wheel, the gloves would separate his fingers further than this example, which would account for primer residue spraying into web of fingers of gloves after Mngeni shot the gun.

Leigh-Ann Jansen reminded us that Qwabe also searched for the bullet casing and handled it before throwing it into a drain. So it would have rested in palm of gloved hand.

JMO



Lots of information at this site-

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNGSR.html


Imo, Mngeni was the shooter, but if DT are successful enough to influence the Judge that it 'could have been' Qwabe, well we know what that will mean. :/

 

[jslk]

Quite a disappointing day in court. It makes sense to me that all exposed areas in an enclosed space are liable to pick up primer residue, but obviously there would be different concentrations? The witness already stated that rain and wind can affect results, obviously this does not apply inside the car. But surely the concentrations of primer residue could be expected to vary according to how close the person is to the firearm (or, indeed, if they're actually holding and discharging it). I would have expected some quantitative analysis on the amounts of residue for each person to be presented - surely this is an important part of crime scene analysis???

 

[Interested Bystander]

Leila Samodien ‏@Leila_Luck 26 secs27 seconds ago

#DewaniTrial Mlabateki: If 2 people in confines of a car & 1 fires shot, it's as likely non-shooter will have residue in web area of hand.

?????Can above REALLY be true?

I think so. If you remember in OP's case it was stated that the shot had to have been fired 2 metres or more away from the door. Had it been closer there would have been residue on the door and there was not. So two metres sounds a given. I imagine the pattern on a shooter's glove as compared with a non-shooter in the immediate vicinity would be quite different. I am guessing but I would think there might be a higher deposit of residue on the shooters hand and as has been stated a different pattern.

It seems this was all a waste of time and agree it probably is going to make the forensic lab's lack of input look unprofessional. I wonder why the DT wanted to bring it up at this stage when there was nothing in their favour with respect to whether it might prove Dewani's guilt or not?