South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

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Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2m2 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Adv B: if he was standing still could that have been one movement?
Dr T: it is unlikely why would he not move why would you allow someone to draw neat lines across your body?
Dr T: You would expect that the person would draw their body away

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en
 
Tiemensma says there is pushing and pulling, not a static confrontation. Both arms up in the air; awkward position. Sharp edge of axe facing in Henri Van Breda's direction.

[They're extremely fine marks on his chest and I don't believe you could get these from an axe. He probably used the knife later on to do this ... after he washed the kitchen floor and changed into clean socks :)

Wouldn't it be great if Botha's medical expert suddenly decided not to testify just as Reggie Perumal did in OP ... because he agreed with all Prof. Saayman's autopsy findings.]

The position described at the time of the wounds being inflicted is that there was pushing and pulling, slashing and stabbing, Tiemensma says.

This does not correspond with the wounds.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523
 
I do like Dr T! Her evidence is professionally presented and SO logical .....
 
A normal person reacts to pain by moving away. You are not defending yourself by standing still, Dr Tiemensma says. She maintains there was movement.

Adv Botha - Henri says initial movement of attacker was aiming towards his throat and he managed to pull his arm slightly down.

Tiemensma - he definitely didn't strike anything close to the throat. You would expect a downwards sharp force injury toward the chest.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523
 
Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 9m9 minutes ago

#VanBreda Botha argues that it could have been one slash that created both chest line wounds. DrT disagrees as they are seperate wounds.

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 10m10 minutes ago

Dr T: It could be the same action but not the same movement they both have tails @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 10m10 minutes ago

@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Adv B: if we have upward tail in one wound could it not have been the same cut that lead to both

Anthony Molyneaux @AJGMolyneaux
#VanBreda DrT is a well spoken witness. Her reports state that Henris chest wounds are suspicious as they are on same horizontal level.

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 11m11 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Adv B: one is on his pectoral and one on chest could the difference in height of pectoral make this one movement

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 11m11 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: Its just not likely and she goes through her list, similar, superficial, regular.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 12m12 minutes ago
#VanBreda both the chest wounds have 'tails' at end. DrT suggests this is very unlikely to be done by an attacker.

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 13m13 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Adv B: if he was standing still could that have been one movement?

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 13m13 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: it is unlikely why would he not move why would you allow someone to draw neat lines across your body?

Tracey Stewart‏
@Traceyams
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: You would expect that the person would draw their body away

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 13m13 minutes ago
Adv B: when u gave the state your report you didnt have plea explanation? @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

EWN Reporter‏Verified account
@ewnreporter
#VanBreda Botha: when you provided the State with your reports,you didn't have my client's plea explanation at the time? T: No. mM

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 15m15 minutes ago
#VanBreda DrT says in Henris plea explanation, there was pushing&pulling. These wounds are not consistent with Henris story.

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 15m15 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: No I didnt but at that stage I thought they were self inflicted

EWN Reporter‏Verified account @ewnreporter 15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @ewnreporter
#VanBreda Tiemensma says but even at the time the wounds looked suspiciously like it was self-inflicted. MM

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 15m15 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Adv B: Does his plea say what movement was involved in the attack? Dr T: Yes he does and reads para 31 again

Tracey Stewart‏
@Traceyams
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: when he says pushing and pulling slashing and stepping back and forth

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 17m17 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: why would the pushing and pulling back and forth stepping stop when the wound is inflicted

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 17m17 minutes ago
Adv B: So you don't have a description of movement at the time he was wounded? Dr T: yes he describes the movement #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏
@Traceyams
Adv B what degree of movement as he described in his plea explanation when he received those cuts? #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 17m17 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda No he doesn't describe movement at the time of receiving cuts

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 19m19 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: because that is natural who would stand still to allow precise superficial wounds to be executed

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 19m19 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: if he is completely standing still the yes its possible but why would he be standing still

EWN Reporter‏Verified account @ewnreporter 20m20 minutes ago
#VanBreda Tiemensma:Who would stand still & allow themselves to be cut. A person would normally pull away if a knife is coming towards them

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 20m20 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Adv B: are you suggesting that struggle could only occur in a manner in which my client allowed attacker to slash

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 20m20 minutes ago
#VanBreda DrT sums her testimony up. "Who would stand still while being slashed? These wounds have no 'movement' to them". @TimesLIVE

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 20m20 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Adv B: his adrenaline levels would have been high, would he have felt those cuts?

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 20m20 minutes ago
@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda Dr T: he may very well have not felt it but he would know the attacker is slashing at him

https://twitter.com/ewnreporter?lang=en
https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en
https://twitter.com/ajgmolyneaux?lang=en
 
You go girl! Dr T is the witness of the trial so far

The news24 reporter must have ducked out for a coffee, or something. Nil for 16 minutes.
 
JudgeJudi said:
You go girl! Dr T is the witness of the trial so far

The news24 reporter must have ducked out for a coffee, or something. Nil for 16 minutes.
Click to expand...

Thought they'd all gone home for the day!
 
I fear this excellent doctor might be in the witness box for a very long time. Botha is going to attempt to wear her down, in his usual manner.
 
I think he has Buckley's of wearing this lady down.
 
Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 22m22 minutes ago
#VanBreda botha puts it to DrT: Henri says attacker was aiming for his throat but he wrestled the weapon away.

#VanBreda DrT says the only way I can agree with that is if there was a downward slice on his chest. There is no wound like that.

DrT is sounding confident in her report and seems knowledgeable about Henri's wounds and actions that caused them.

DrT repeats that wounds are not consistent with wounds sustained in a tussle.Irregular edges, deeper cuts would be present.

Botha: pushing & pulling my client described, would that include violent movement of torsos?

DrT says there would be movement of all body parts in a tussle.

Botha says but at times the torso would be stationary(to allow straight cuts on Henris chest). DrT says that's unlikely.

now we turn towards the 'scratches' on Henri's L arm. Photos show 3 parallel slashes that look painful.

These wounds, DrT says, are self inflicted as they are superficial, regular & reachable.

Botha discussing L forearm cuts. He says cuts are not parallel. DrT disagrees and says the cuts are parallel and grouped.

Botha says Henri was holding the attackers hand, the attacker was slashing Henris arm by flicking the knife with his wrist.

Botha asks whether this could cause the forearm cuts? DrT says very unlikely as it's an awkward movement.

Botha wants to demonstrate with the actually knife. Detective leaves court to fetch knife.

knife has arrived. Waiting for Botha to finish his question.

DrT says depth of stomach wound was 1cm, if it was any deeper it would have entered peritoneal cavity. He didn't need stitches.

this is in response to Botha saying his expert says the stomach wound was as deep as 5cms.

https://twitter.com/ajgmolyneaux?lang=en
 
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