South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
We asked him what happened, could he describe the person involved.

Captain Steyn was also at scene. He had been busy with an investigation into balaclava gang. It was said the attacker had been wearing a balaclava.

He didst indicate he didn't want to speak any further.

He doesn't know where he got the t-shirt. Got to the office shortly after 12:00. Henri was taken to Sergeant Adams office, where he sat. Then to Col Benecke's office.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525
 
He was interviewed to determine what had happened and also to identify a suspect.

He was the only survivor and it was important to get his statement to inform crime intelligence of a possible suspect for them to follow up.

During the interview, Henri was wearing pants and a t-shirt.

Taken to Benecke office after 12:00; typed statement at 2:20.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525
 
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 1m1 minute ago#VanBreda
Correction: the officers name is Clinton Malan, not Quinton. Apologies

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 3m3 minutes ago
#VanBreda Officer Malan says Henri was calm, quiet and showed no emotion.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 5m5 minutes ago
#VanBreda Quinton Malan was one of the officers on de Zalze scene at 8am after the murders. @TimesLIVE

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 10m10 minutes ago
#VanBreda Next witness is called for the trial within a trial (the matter of Henris first statement).

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 10m10 minutes ago
#VanBreda To sum up: Botha is suggesting that the police got a statement as a suspect out of Henri while he thought he was just a witness.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 12m12 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha states that he is not suggesting that Henri was tortured. He simply is saying Henris situation needs to be considered.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 15m15 minutes ago
#VanBreda Galloway says Henri made statement as a witness and not as an accused. @TimesLIVE

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 16m16 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha concedes and says he is only addressing section 35 where Henri was not read his rights.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 17m17 minutes ago
#VanBreda Judge tells Botha that he's throwing in different matters to try 'colour' his case.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 19m19 minutes ago
#VanBreda Judge is stern with Botha and says if Botha makes allegations like that he needs proof of that type of 'torture'.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 20m20 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha also mentions that Henri was not allowed food or clothes during his time with the police. As well as sleep deprivation.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 21m21 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha says Henri was not warned of his constitutional rights.This is why they want his 1st statement to be thrown out. @TimesLIVE

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 25m25 minutes ago
#vanbreda Botha says that col. Beneke told Henri: "We don't believe a single word of your bull***** story".

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 27m27 minutes ago
#VanBreda Henri's first statement was taken at 15:52 on the same day as the murders.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 29m29 minutes ago
#VanBreda cross x-examination of DrA ends&she leaves stand. Now we move into the trial within a trial.Botha begins with H statement

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 35m35 minutes ago
#VanBreda DrA says It's hard to say if Marli could move after attack. Could have been in semi-comatose state but able to move limbs.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 39m39 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha looks at crime scene photographs. Henri immediately turns his head to not glimpse the photos. @TimesLIVE
 
While speaking to him and statement being taken, he remained calm, showed no emotion, he was quiet.

After that, he left my office, walked to family members who had been waiting for him.

Never indicated that he was not emotionally or physically able to speak, Malan says.

Malan had brought a sandwich with him for lunch, and while Henri was in Benecke's office, he left to eat his sandwich.

Was he asked anything that could possibly be incriminating? Galloway asks. No, Malan says.

He was not detained or charged. He was there as a victim.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525
 
Did he ever say anything incriminating? No, Malan says.

Botha now cross examining.

He says 95% of what Malan has said is a first for him.

Col Benecke had requested a statement, and it was decided that Malan should do it.

From De Zalze, they went to Dr Albertse. Doesn't recall DNA evidence being taken, but knows of the J88.

Botha says they first went form De Zalze to police station to collect the J88 and evidence bags before taken to doctor.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Did he ever tell u he wasn't in an emotional state to be speaking with you? No

Adv G: Did accsued ever, during that time tell u he didnt want to talk to you anymore? No

While taking the statement did u struggle to get a part of it? No no

Adv G: emotional state at the time M: calm no emotion quiet

Adv G: U finished at 15h25 - M: thats correct

I took it in english my mother language is afrikaans but Henri was speaking english

Then I would continue typing as he told and ask for clarity on dates or times etc

Then I would continue typing as he told and ask for clarity on dates or times etc

Accused sat in front of me I asked him to tell me again what happened and he did tell me 2/3 sentences and I type

Adv G has just asked that he identify the document in dispute as the statement its a typed version M confirms he typed it

i asked for explanation when I physically took statement and it changed ( *I think he said it changed)

Adv G: From the first time since u spoke to him did to his statement did his statement change? yes

M: I took the statement from him in my office. It was only me and the accused

Adv G: From the first time since u spoke to him did to his statement did his statement change? yes

i asked for explanation when I physically took statement and it changed ( *I think he said it cAdv G has just asked that he identify the document in dispute as the statement its a typed version M confirms he typed it

Accused sat in front of me I asked him to tell me again what happened and he did tell me 2/3 sentences and I type
Then I would continue typing as he told and ask for clarity on dates or times etc

I took it in english my mother language is afrikaans but Henri was speaking english

I asked victim to read the electronic version of his statement and he did so and then he signed it

Adv G: U finished at 15h25 - M: thats correct

Adv G: emotional state at the time M: calm no emotion quiet

While taking the statement did u struggle to get a part of it? No no

Adv G: Did accsued ever, during that time tell u he didnt want to talk to you anymore? No

Did he ever tell u he wasn't in an emotional state to be speaking with you? No

At that stage you were on the scene at 8am it was now 4pm? Did u eat during time? I had a sandwich I brought from home

while he was being interviewed I excused myself to eat it

Adv G: any aspects police could have asked which could have possibly incriminated H. M: No

Adv G: at any stage was he arrested detained or charged? M: No

Adv G: according to you, why was he on the scene that day? M: he was a victim he was never restrained

B asks about statement M made, it was just short one you made to say you had taken the statement

Ok its B & M now its going to be quick exchanges so no titles

M: adams and beneke were there and adams said I could take the statement

B: u took him to Dr A who took samples? M: I can't remember

B: My client says u didnt go direct to Dr A u first stopped at police station one got out and collected forms and evidence bags

M:That is correct we first collected forms and evidence bags then to Dr AB:so u forgot that? I left it out as it wasn't important

B: so u say u left that out M i didnt think it was important. B - I get that but do u agree that u left it out? M i thought not nb

B: when he arrived at Dr A he was topless #vanbreda M: I remember he had a tshirt on

Judge Desai adjourns to Monday 10 am


This is an exact copy of the tweets, including misspellings. It is also typed in order to make it easier to follow the proceedings.
 
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Quinton Malan was one of the officers on de Zalze scene at 8am after the murders.

Officer Malan says Henri was calm, quiet and showed no emotion.

Correction: the officers name is Clinton Malan, not Quinton. Apologies

Malan says Henri told them that he saw a man with a Balaclava committing the crimes.

Henri sits forward, taking notes during Malan's testimony. He seems interested, engaged. Completely opposite to this morning.

Malan says they needed a statement ASAP from the only concious witness who saw the crime to begin investigation.

Galloway hands Malan the statement he took from Henri on day of murders. M confirms that's the correct statement.

M: Henris behaviour was emotionless while giving statement

M says Henri spoke freely and openly about his version of what happened.

M: Henri never told me that he didn't want to talk to me anymore or he couldn't continue giving statement.

Malan says henri did not say anything incriminating that required Malan to warn Henri of his statements consequences in court.
Galloway hands over to Botha. Botha says 90% of what he just heard is the first time he's heard it. B begins questioning
Malan.

Botha asks Malan if they drove from De Zalze with Henri&Col. Adams to Dr. Albertse's offices. Malan says correct.

Botha points out that they stopped at police station first to pick up papers.Malan:Yes, didn't mention because it's not important.

Botha seems ready for a fight. B's voice is louder than with any other witnesses today.

Court is out for the day. Trial within a trial continues tomorrow. See ya'll then.

Apologies, court adjourned to Monday morning at 10am. Its been a long day! Hope you have a sweet weekend.

Please Note this is an accurate transcript and spelling are as posted in the tweets. I have changed nothing. I have also chosen to list them in order so that it is easier to follow the story.
 
Like others, I have been following along quietly (from the states on off hours for SA) and want to thank those of you posting the trial info/tweets. It's incredibly sad but compelling stuff and I am​ grateful for your hard work that allows us to follow along!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Thank you for the tweets.

I need to check back but I'm sure we've had two conflicting reports of what the witness said, one saying he changed his account and one saying he didn't.
 
It's difficult to work out what might have happened.

A pool of Rudi's blood on the bed that Martin was on. I believe that might have been Henri's bed.

Rudi on the floor next to the bathroom and his blood smeared (not spattered) on the wall between bedroom and bathroom (don't know how high up).

Martin hit from behind. It makes no sense that he could be lower than the attacker (Henri) if he was approaching from on the bed. Why would he even be going over the bed, and not across the floor? He did not try to defend himself but I contend that even if he was going in for a rugby tackle with Henri he would hold his hands in a way to protect himself if needs be.

Therefore I believe Henri ambushed him from behind. But I do wonder why he would put in a different version to what he actually did. Did he hit Martin from behind and then Martin fell forwards onto the bed that Rudi had gone to to try to get away from Henri? Why did the doctor think Rudi had been lying on his right side, if he had injuries to both fists? It sounds like he could have punched Henri.

Possibly Rudi either managed to move off the bed after Henri left to attack his mum, or was moving violently and dropped off the bed.

I now believe the statement they are arguing over could relate to whether he said Rudi was alive or not. Hmm, what are the implications here? I can see that Henri would not have known that day that there would be blood in Rudi's stomach. I wonder why he never mentioned that Rudi was lying on the floor near the bathroom after the attack.

I hope the blood spatter expert is a decent witness.
 
What cowards they are, these murderers who can't bear to listen to the details of what they have done. We've had Pistorius sitting with his fingers in his ears and now HvB crawling down to the floor.

I hate it when judges show concern for them, like they are babies.
 
It's difficult to work out what might have happened.

A pool of Rudi's blood on the bed that Martin was on. I believe that might have been Henri's bed.

Rudi on the floor next to the bathroom and his blood smeared (not spattered) on the wall between bedroom and bathroom (don't know how high up).

Martin hit from behind. It makes no sense that he could be lower than the attacker (Henri) if he was approaching from on the bed. Why would he even be going over the bed, and not across the floor? He did not try to defend himself but I contend that even if he was going in for a rugby tackle with Henri he would hold his hands in a way to protect himself if needs be.

Therefore I believe Henri ambushed him from behind. But I do wonder why he would put in a different version to what he actually did. Did he hit Martin from behind and then Martin fell forwards onto the bed that Rudi had gone to to try to get away from Henri? Why did the doctor think Rudi had been lying on his right side, if he had injuries to both fists? It sounds like he could have punched Henri.

Possibly Rudi either managed to move off the bed after Henri left to attack his mum, or was moving violently and dropped off the bed.

I now believe the statement they are arguing over could relate to whether he said Rudi was alive or not. Hmm, what are the implications here? I can see that Henri would not have known that day that there would be blood in Rudi's stomach. I wonder why he never mentioned that Rudi was lying on the floor near the bathroom after the attack.

I hope the blood spatter expert is a decent witness.

I have caught up on this local-to-me case over the past week. It was highly disturbing to read of the post-mortems. How terrifying their last moments must have been.

I was wondering if some of Rudi's and Henri's injuries relate to a physical fight earlier the evening. Damaged fists, swollen eyes, etc. Henri might have been brooding over it after Rudi had gone to bed. And then decided on revenge. Maybe he never intended to kill them all, but then had to follow through as his father walked in on them.

In the emergency call, Henri only mentions his sister as still being alive. I just don't get why it he would need to change his story. He is not a doctor and not expected to have made an accurate assessment at the time.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Attacked from behind - with an axe no less. Sickening cowardice and even more harrowing if he was trying to shield his son. How dare HvB hang his head and carry on this way! Sounds like he had no trouble looking his Mum in the eye as he killed her. He should be made to watch the testimony. Playing the victim.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly - poor victim. He cannot bring himself to watch the havoc and bloodshed he created blaming two black men with balaclavas and gloves on. This must have been premeditated after the argument he had with his father and Rudi between 10pm and midnight the night before. His father could have told him that he was not going to allow him to be an umemployed playboy and do scuba diving lessons. If he wanted to be a university dropout, he had better find a job as he was going to cut off his allowance. MHO. .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
108
Guests online
163
Total visitors
271

Forum statistics

Threads
608,715
Messages
18,244,490
Members
234,435
Latest member
ProfKim
Back
Top