PrimeSuspect
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Ok folks, we didn't get the memo, court starts at 11.30am.
South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2
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I agree. He looks totally devoid of any emotion most of the time, 'though there have been one or two occasions when he is supposed to have cried.
JudgeJudi
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Yep, crocodile tears. And he's obviously got a super thick hide too. Not willing to help his sister who was close to dying. I simply can't get over that, or the murders. I.just.can't.
JudgeJudi
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Okey doke, here's a little something to fill in some time.
Discrepancies between Henris Initial Statement (IS) and Plea Explanation (PE)
PART 1
Before dinner
IS: Rudi was outside went for a run.
PE: Rudi, Henri and Martin watched TV whilst Teresa made dinner.
IS: Marli and Teresa were in the house.
PE: As far as he could recall, Marli was in the room.
After dinner
IS: Martin, Henri, Rudi and Marli watched TV after dinner.
PE: Martin, Henri and Rudi watched the movie Star Trek 2.
IS: Martin went to bed at about 9:00. Henri and Rudi went to bed at 11:00.
PE: After the movie, Martin, Henri and Rudi said goodnight.
As Martin went to bed at 9:00, only Henri and Rudi could have watched the movie.
IS: Rudi was asleep while Henri was still on his laptop watching the TV series One Piece until 3:00am. He then listened to music on his cell phone to get to sleep.
PE: Rudi and Henri turned off the lights and got into bed. Initially, Rudi and Henri were both busy on their laptops.
IS: He put his earphones and phone on the bedside table. He then decided to go to the toilet and took his phone with him. Once inside, he closed the toilet door.
PE: Long after he went to bed he went to the bathroom to move his bowels. He took his cellphone to play games. He didnt switch on the light.
Detail added about having to move his bowels and not switching on the light. No mention of closing the door.
IS: While inside the toilet he heard a noise coming from his room where Rudi was sleeping. The noise was close.
PE: He suddenly heard several banging sounds that sounded close by. The sounds were so loud and strange that they startled him into investigating the source.
IS: He opened the door slightly and saw in the dark that someone was hitting Rudi.
He stood there, afraid to leave the toilet and started to shout for help.
PE: He opened the door and looked in the direction of the banging sounds coming from the vicinity of Rudis bed. He could make out the silhouette of someone standing next to (between the two beds) or partially on Rudis bed. The person was hitting Rudi with what he later discovered to be an axe.
He initially stood frozen, trying to comprehend what was going on. He cant remember whether he remained in the same position throughout the attack on Rudi.
IS: Martin entered the room and turned on the lights. Henri saw a person hitting Rudi with an axe. Martin saw the whole thing happening.
Martin jumped on the person who then attacked Martin with the axe.
Rudi was lying on the bed while Martin was attacked.
Henri was still standing in the bedroom with the lights on looking at what was happening. Martin then collapsed.
PE: The light was turned on and his Dad came into the room. The attack was still ongoing.
Martin moved towards and onto the bed, over Rudi, towards the attacker who was on the opposite side of the bed.
[Henris bed was closest to the en suite bathroom, i.e. the right-hand side as you enter the bedroom from the passage]
Henri said in his PE that the attacker was between the two beds. His back would have been turned away from the door leading to the passage. He was not on the far side of Rudis bed. Henri said Martin came into the room, therefore he must have jumped on the persons back because the person was still attacking Rudi. Martin could not have sustained injuries to the back of his head if he jumped on the persons back BUT if Martin threw himself over Rudi to protect him, the injuries would have been to the back of his head.
In the IS Henri was in the toilet, afraid to leave but says he cant remember if he stayed there. If in fact he left the bathroom and went into the bedroom, this would explain why he said My Dad came into the room. It also means that he simply stood there and watched the attacks on both Rudi and Martin and did nothing to help them.
Discrepancies between Henris Initial Statement (IS) and Plea Explanation (PE)
PART 1
Before dinner
IS: Rudi was outside went for a run.
PE: Rudi, Henri and Martin watched TV whilst Teresa made dinner.
IS: Marli and Teresa were in the house.
PE: As far as he could recall, Marli was in the room.
After dinner
IS: Martin, Henri, Rudi and Marli watched TV after dinner.
PE: Martin, Henri and Rudi watched the movie Star Trek 2.
IS: Martin went to bed at about 9:00. Henri and Rudi went to bed at 11:00.
PE: After the movie, Martin, Henri and Rudi said goodnight.
As Martin went to bed at 9:00, only Henri and Rudi could have watched the movie.
IS: Rudi was asleep while Henri was still on his laptop watching the TV series One Piece until 3:00am. He then listened to music on his cell phone to get to sleep.
PE: Rudi and Henri turned off the lights and got into bed. Initially, Rudi and Henri were both busy on their laptops.
IS: He put his earphones and phone on the bedside table. He then decided to go to the toilet and took his phone with him. Once inside, he closed the toilet door.
PE: Long after he went to bed he went to the bathroom to move his bowels. He took his cellphone to play games. He didnt switch on the light.
Detail added about having to move his bowels and not switching on the light. No mention of closing the door.
IS: While inside the toilet he heard a noise coming from his room where Rudi was sleeping. The noise was close.
PE: He suddenly heard several banging sounds that sounded close by. The sounds were so loud and strange that they startled him into investigating the source.
IS: He opened the door slightly and saw in the dark that someone was hitting Rudi.
He stood there, afraid to leave the toilet and started to shout for help.
PE: He opened the door and looked in the direction of the banging sounds coming from the vicinity of Rudis bed. He could make out the silhouette of someone standing next to (between the two beds) or partially on Rudis bed. The person was hitting Rudi with what he later discovered to be an axe.
He initially stood frozen, trying to comprehend what was going on. He cant remember whether he remained in the same position throughout the attack on Rudi.
IS: Martin entered the room and turned on the lights. Henri saw a person hitting Rudi with an axe. Martin saw the whole thing happening.
Martin jumped on the person who then attacked Martin with the axe.
Rudi was lying on the bed while Martin was attacked.
Henri was still standing in the bedroom with the lights on looking at what was happening. Martin then collapsed.
PE: The light was turned on and his Dad came into the room. The attack was still ongoing.
Martin moved towards and onto the bed, over Rudi, towards the attacker who was on the opposite side of the bed.
[Henris bed was closest to the en suite bathroom, i.e. the right-hand side as you enter the bedroom from the passage]
Henri said in his PE that the attacker was between the two beds. His back would have been turned away from the door leading to the passage. He was not on the far side of Rudis bed. Henri said Martin came into the room, therefore he must have jumped on the persons back because the person was still attacking Rudi. Martin could not have sustained injuries to the back of his head if he jumped on the persons back BUT if Martin threw himself over Rudi to protect him, the injuries would have been to the back of his head.
In the IS Henri was in the toilet, afraid to leave but says he cant remember if he stayed there. If in fact he left the bathroom and went into the bedroom, this would explain why he said My Dad came into the room. It also means that he simply stood there and watched the attacks on both Rudi and Martin and did nothing to help them.
Mette
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Antisocial personality disorder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
Manifests as psychopathy and sociopathy. It's not going away. Studies show that between 1% and 4% of babies are born with APD.
In prisons, depending on whether one measures innocuous crimes or violent ones, the APD rate ranges from below 25% up to 75%.
The challenge is how to deal with antisocial personality disorder.
JudgeJudi
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Discrepancies between Henris Initial Statement (IS) and Plea Explanation (PE)
PART 2
IS: After Martin was attacked, Henri heard Teresas voice in the passage. The attacker left the bedroom to where she was standing. Henri heard her being attacked in the passage. He left the toilet and still in the bedroom walked towards the door but remained in the room. He couldnt see where Teresa was in the passage from where he stood.
PE: He cannot recall whether he heard any sound of an attack on Teresa outside of the bedroom.
IS: After attacking Teresa, the attacker returned to the bedroom, looked at Henri and laughed. Henri was standing close to the bottom of his bed. The person then attacked him.
PE: The attacker was laughing whilst he attacked Martin.
Its clear that Henri was in the bedroom at this point.
IS: They started to fight but Henri managed to take the axe from the attacker who then pulled a knife and stabbed him. Henri hit him with the blunt side of the axe at the back of his body at the right shoulder. The attacker then left and Henri pulled the knife out of his body. The person started to run.
PE: Once Henri had the axe, the person attacked him again with a knife. Henri grabbed the attackers right forearm and his right hand with his left hand.
Henri had the axe in his right hand. Using his left hand somehow he was able to grab the persons forearm and hand. After Henri struck him, the attacker let go of the knife and Henris right arm and started to run.
IS: He was unaware whose axe it was because he didnt know an axe was in the house.
There is no reference to this in the PE. It would seem that the axe must have belonged to the attacker if he was unaware of one being in the house. However, Precious Munyongani, the familys domestic worker said the axe looked the same as the one that was usually stored in the scullery. Marlis ex-boyfriend, James Read-Jahn, had seen a similar axe in the house and assumed it was used to chop wood for the fireplace. Hed also seen it a few times in the garage.
IS: Henri went to the bedroom door and threw the axe at the person as he ran downstairs.
PE: He cannot recall exactly where he was on the stairs when he threw the axe.
IS: Henri assumed the person left by the back door because we always left the back door opened every night for the domestic worker to come inside the house.
PE: He saw that the kitchen door was open.
The murders took place on Tuesday, 27 January 2015. The domestic worker only worked Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Precious didnt work on Tuesdays. Martin was very security conscious. I find it impossible to believe that any door on the ground floor would be left open at night.
IS: "I did not touch anybody of my family in the house the time the person assaulted my family with the axe".
PE: He recalled seeing blood on the vertical side of one of the stairs where he had lain and assumed it must have been my own blood.
Sgt Kleynhans was the first officer on the scene. He found Henri standing in grey boxers and white socks with blood on his arms. We havent been told whose blood this was. Even though Marli was still alive, albeit with devastating head injuries, he made no attempt to try and save her.
IS: The attacker wore a homemade dark grey mask.
PE: The attacker wore a balaclava type of mask. It would be difficult to identify the person but he would recognise his eyes and voice.
Henri was in a life and death struggle with an attacker. He would have been looking at the persons hands as he was first wielding and axe and then a knife. Whether the attacker wore a mask or balaclava is irrelevant. It would be impossible to identify a person only by their eyes in a serious attack situation like this.
IS: There was no mention of the attacker ever speaking nor of any other persons being present.
PE: He heard what sounded like angry voices of more than one person elsewhere in the house. It sounded like the persons were speaking Afrikaans. There must have been at least two.
IS: He woke up and saw Marli was still moving and also was breathing.
PE: He woke up, lying on the stairs. He saw Marli move. He could also also hear what sounded like Rudi making gurgling sounds in the room.
No mention was made in his IS of Rudi still being alive.
PART 2
IS: After Martin was attacked, Henri heard Teresas voice in the passage. The attacker left the bedroom to where she was standing. Henri heard her being attacked in the passage. He left the toilet and still in the bedroom walked towards the door but remained in the room. He couldnt see where Teresa was in the passage from where he stood.
PE: He cannot recall whether he heard any sound of an attack on Teresa outside of the bedroom.
IS: After attacking Teresa, the attacker returned to the bedroom, looked at Henri and laughed. Henri was standing close to the bottom of his bed. The person then attacked him.
PE: The attacker was laughing whilst he attacked Martin.
Its clear that Henri was in the bedroom at this point.
IS: They started to fight but Henri managed to take the axe from the attacker who then pulled a knife and stabbed him. Henri hit him with the blunt side of the axe at the back of his body at the right shoulder. The attacker then left and Henri pulled the knife out of his body. The person started to run.
PE: Once Henri had the axe, the person attacked him again with a knife. Henri grabbed the attackers right forearm and his right hand with his left hand.
Henri had the axe in his right hand. Using his left hand somehow he was able to grab the persons forearm and hand. After Henri struck him, the attacker let go of the knife and Henris right arm and started to run.
IS: He was unaware whose axe it was because he didnt know an axe was in the house.
There is no reference to this in the PE. It would seem that the axe must have belonged to the attacker if he was unaware of one being in the house. However, Precious Munyongani, the familys domestic worker said the axe looked the same as the one that was usually stored in the scullery. Marlis ex-boyfriend, James Read-Jahn, had seen a similar axe in the house and assumed it was used to chop wood for the fireplace. Hed also seen it a few times in the garage.
IS: Henri went to the bedroom door and threw the axe at the person as he ran downstairs.
PE: He cannot recall exactly where he was on the stairs when he threw the axe.
IS: Henri assumed the person left by the back door because we always left the back door opened every night for the domestic worker to come inside the house.
PE: He saw that the kitchen door was open.
The murders took place on Tuesday, 27 January 2015. The domestic worker only worked Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Precious didnt work on Tuesdays. Martin was very security conscious. I find it impossible to believe that any door on the ground floor would be left open at night.
IS: "I did not touch anybody of my family in the house the time the person assaulted my family with the axe".
PE: He recalled seeing blood on the vertical side of one of the stairs where he had lain and assumed it must have been my own blood.
Sgt Kleynhans was the first officer on the scene. He found Henri standing in grey boxers and white socks with blood on his arms. We havent been told whose blood this was. Even though Marli was still alive, albeit with devastating head injuries, he made no attempt to try and save her.
IS: The attacker wore a homemade dark grey mask.
PE: The attacker wore a balaclava type of mask. It would be difficult to identify the person but he would recognise his eyes and voice.
Henri was in a life and death struggle with an attacker. He would have been looking at the persons hands as he was first wielding and axe and then a knife. Whether the attacker wore a mask or balaclava is irrelevant. It would be impossible to identify a person only by their eyes in a serious attack situation like this.
IS: There was no mention of the attacker ever speaking nor of any other persons being present.
PE: He heard what sounded like angry voices of more than one person elsewhere in the house. It sounded like the persons were speaking Afrikaans. There must have been at least two.
IS: He woke up and saw Marli was still moving and also was breathing.
PE: He woke up, lying on the stairs. He saw Marli move. He could also also hear what sounded like Rudi making gurgling sounds in the room.
No mention was made in his IS of Rudi still being alive.
Interested Bystander
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Oh dear. Court stood down again until Wednesday. Botha the cause. Personal problems it seems.
JudgeJudi
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Combrink says Botha is unavailable. Botha has asked that the matter stand down until Wednesday
I just don't believe this. It's totally nuts.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-23-20170605#cxrecs_s
I just don't believe this. It's totally nuts.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-23-20170605#cxrecs_s
PrimeSuspect
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https://twitter.com/Traceyams
We are all in court waiting for Judge Desai - Postponement expected
Adv Combrink addresses the court, he is standing in for Adv Botha who is in hospital hopefully not as bad as thought
JDesai addresses court:Adv B indisposed due to personal circumstances Court no option but to postpone to Wed 7 June 2017 at 10am Adv Botha's son is in hospital we don't know much more
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
We are back guys! Adv Botha is not present. Botha's son is in hospital. Defence asked for postponement until Wednesday.
We are all in court waiting for Judge Desai - Postponement expected
Adv Combrink addresses the court, he is standing in for Adv Botha who is in hospital hopefully not as bad as thought
JDesai addresses court:Adv B indisposed due to personal circumstances Court no option but to postpone to Wed 7 June 2017 at 10am Adv Botha's son is in hospital we don't know much more
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
We are back guys! Adv Botha is not present. Botha's son is in hospital. Defence asked for postponement until Wednesday.
PrimeSuspect
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:fishy:
PrimeSuspect
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It is outrageous Tortoise! What's Combrink there for, if he can't carry on a day or two without Botha! What if it's something minor, Botha is up to tricks, that's my opinion!
PrimeSuspect
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The rate it's going, this trial won't be over this year, probably end up being a mistrial!! Phfft, No wonder HvB is confident, he's got even more luck and money on his side than OP!!!! :stormingmad:
Interested Bystander
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That will leave only 6 days (possibly 7 if they can use the 19th) left in court to finish the trial. Then what! This is appalling. Obviously I hope B's son is OK BUT what does Combrink do for his salary? For heaven's sake - this makes SA's legal system look laughable.
Tortoise
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I'm wondering if he had to put in intruder no 2 to try and get around the problem of Marli being attacked in the time that Henri was waiting in the bedroom, because two attacks (on Marli and Teresa) would have given Henri far too much time doing nothing - the attack on Marli was prolonged because she fought back - he didn't even attempt to climb over the balcony or phone for help in the bathroom.
I do think that initially he was going to claim that Marli must have been attacked first, before Rudi, while Henri had his earphones in before going to the toilet, and that is why he mentioned the earphones. But then I think after he gave his police statement he realised that Martin wouldn't have just ignored Marli lying on the floor, he would have thought Henri had called for help because of Marli and stopped to attend to her.
So intruder no.2 was created.
The other thing that I've been thinking about is the amount of light available in the bedroom even without the light being on. We all know that eyes adjust to the dark. It's shades of Pistorius all over again, when he claimed the room was pitch dark. We know Henri's balcony doors were open and unobstructed by curtains because of the blood that was shed onto the wall below. So Henri would have been able to see the axe before Martin put the light on, and not think that Rudi was merely being hit. There is a massive difference in body movement between swinging an axe which requires raised arms, and low punching movements.
I do think that initially he was going to claim that Marli must have been attacked first, before Rudi, while Henri had his earphones in before going to the toilet, and that is why he mentioned the earphones. But then I think after he gave his police statement he realised that Martin wouldn't have just ignored Marli lying on the floor, he would have thought Henri had called for help because of Marli and stopped to attend to her.
So intruder no.2 was created.
The other thing that I've been thinking about is the amount of light available in the bedroom even without the light being on. We all know that eyes adjust to the dark. It's shades of Pistorius all over again, when he claimed the room was pitch dark. We know Henri's balcony doors were open and unobstructed by curtains because of the blood that was shed onto the wall below. So Henri would have been able to see the axe before Martin put the light on, and not think that Rudi was merely being hit. There is a massive difference in body movement between swinging an axe which requires raised arms, and low punching movements.
JudgeJudi
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He'll go back to chambers, hold conferences in other matters, write opinions and advices etc. He'll still be earning money, just not as much.
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