South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2
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Fluffykins
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Thank you, JudgeJudi! :tyou:
Fluffykins
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Not just confident but arrogant. But I don't think his luck will hold. There's too much that doesn't add up, and isn't there some key evidence against him, like forensic evidence of blood on the shower floor? He can't stare down every last piece of evidence against him.
Interested Bystander
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Rudi only joined his family in South Africa during January 2015. He is still studying in Australia and came back during the Holidays and I guess would have been going back to Melbourne to finish his studies. That maybe why he does not have a room of his own.
I think the room was very large and contained two double beds and as Rudi would be going back to Oz to study it may have been thought sharing would be OK for the short time he was in SA. Also they could have kept the 4th Bedroom as a guest room or possibly it did not have its own bathroom. I would love to see a plan of the whole of the house.
Interested Bystander
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I am not sure which statement it was but HvB said he did not touch the bodies of his family, so how come he was covered in blood and Eric Ntabazalila stated it was the blood of his family members (assuming this report is not fictitious).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...can-court-charged-murder-parents-brother.html
National Prosecuting Authority's Eric Ntabazalila told reporters an axe and kitchen knife were found at the scene, and that van Breda was charged because the clothes he was wearing were covered in the blood of his family members, according to local reports.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...can-court-charged-murder-parents-brother.html
National Prosecuting Authority's Eric Ntabazalila told reporters an axe and kitchen knife were found at the scene, and that van Breda was charged because the clothes he was wearing were covered in the blood of his family members, according to local reports.
Marples
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Probably got a alcoholic poisoning from partying with HvB at the wine fest [emoji23]
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Interested Bystander
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I have been trying to determine if it was a moonlit night in SA and it was! The moon rose in the afternoon at 1.31pm and, unusually, there was no moonset. This does happen periodically and what it means is the moon does not disappear below the horizon. There are quite high hills in Stellenbosch so it is possible the moon appeared to set because it could have dipped behind them
The moon was 52 or 57 per cent illuminated (depending report one uses) so I would guess there would be reasonable moonlight to cast a shadow in the bedroom. However, we do not know the direction the balcony windows face and whether direct moonlight would hit that side of the house.
Visibility was around 10-30 km for most of the night. There were scattered clouds at various times.
Here are couple of links which show data of interest.
https://www.wunderground.com/histor...eqdb.zip=00000&reqdb.magic=46&reqdb.wmo=68999
https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/south-africa/stellenbosch?month=1&year=2015
The moon was 52 or 57 per cent illuminated (depending report one uses) so I would guess there would be reasonable moonlight to cast a shadow in the bedroom. However, we do not know the direction the balcony windows face and whether direct moonlight would hit that side of the house.
Visibility was around 10-30 km for most of the night. There were scattered clouds at various times.
Here are couple of links which show data of interest.
https://www.wunderground.com/histor...eqdb.zip=00000&reqdb.magic=46&reqdb.wmo=68999
https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/south-africa/stellenbosch?month=1&year=2015
JudgeJudi
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Rudi was only over in SA for a few weeks as he was on holidays from uni in Australia. Marli also had 2 double beds in her room apparently.
Interested Bystander
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What I really meant was why does he not continue the case in court. Would he not be qualified to do so?
Sorry, I did not make myself clear JJ.
I know you know the court procedures very well indeed. I thought a second "barrister" should have been in a position to continue where Botha left off. Maybe Botha doesn't trust him to do a good enough job.
JudgeJudi
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My feeling is they never watched the movie at all, and who is going to argue with HvB's story other than the neighbour. They're all dead except for Marli who has retrograde amnesia. When the neighbour said she heard a heated argument between 10:00 and 12:00, Botha said they were testing a new sound system. The neighbour said there was no music heard during the entire time. She was a most credible witness to me and coupled with all the other circumstantial evidence I think the State's evidence is coming together nicely.
A lawyer will be administering Martin's estate and Marli will play no part in this. She has a curator looking after her interests and that has been extended for a further year. Martin's estate has probably been frozen until this court case is over. If HvB is guilty, he'll get nothing at all. As I said in an earlier post, even though the estate is worth R200 million, it seems grossly unfair that any of Martin's money should be used to pay for HvB's defence.
The State hasn't yet decided if they will call Marli. At most she could only testify as to the family dynamics before the murders. I think the State would also be very mindful of what she has suffered both physically and mentally.
JudgeJudi
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Sorry IB, I misunderstood. Botha and Combrink are both Junior Counsel (they'd both be classified as senior Junior Counsel) but Botha has more seniority by about 4 years. He's obviously taking the lead role in this defence. I don't know how they're running this trial but my best guess would be that Botha is more or less acting as a senior counsel and Combrink is acting as his junior. Does that make sense?
It all depends on the importance of the witness. Botha would have spent some time over the weekend preparing for his cross-examination of this important witness. Combrink can't just step into that role unless he was as prepared as Botha, so not a trust issue.
Lots of teeth gnashing from me earlier tonight.
JudgeJudi
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Regarding the positions JJ I've been imagining the layout of the room as something like this:
That's exactly as I'd imagined it as well.
JudgeJudi
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Were at a disadvantage not having pics of the layout of the house so Ive made an attempt to show a few things as words can be easily forgotten. Ive enlarged this portion of the schematic and used a magnifying glass in an attempt to read what was written - it was in Afrikaans. While I cant post full size images, this thumbnail opens up to be quite large.
The red mark on the ground floor to the right of the first set of stairs is blood that dripped down from the main landing where Teresa and Marli were found.
You can see the axe and something else on the landing above the lower set of stairs.
The red circle on the wall shows the mark where the axe gouged the wall and theres blood spatter above it.
The red arrow is pointing to other bedrooms (ander slaapkamer).
Journalists werent allowed into the house so the schematic was no doubt based on an oral description. I think it is simply meant to show the boys bedroom in relation to the top landing and stairs as its obviously incorrect in a number of respects. The beds would have been much closer together as they each had a double bed.
If you look at the bedroom image its apparent that the en suite can only have been on the right-hand wall as the left-hand wall is a solid wall going down to the ground floor. The wall facing the door/passage would have had sliding doors and a balcony as did the master bedroom. Rudi is shown lying across the foot of the bed which we know is incorrect. At the foot of Henris bed closest to the brothers en suite bathroom, lies Rudi face down.
He saw his dad burst into the room, switch on the lights and lunge for the attacker ... who hit him several times across the head with the axe. We also know that he was hit from behind. He obviously wouldnt have been hit where hes shown in the image.
Dr Anthony postulated that Rudi's injuries showed he was lying on his right side and shielded his head, meaning he was aware of what was coming. If Rudi had been asleep on his right side when he was first attacked, he would have been facing the wall. He couldnt have been aware of what was coming. I suggest it was in fact HvB who turned on the light, not Martin, and this woke Rudi and he turned to see HvB approaching with the axe. Rudi, not HvB, shouted and his mother responded Whats going on? Martin rushed into the room and threw himself over Rudi to try and protect him and was hit on the back of the head. This seems to be borne out by:
Rudis bed, closest to the door, is soaked in blood in the area below the pillows.
Martin is lying face down on the side of the bed nearest the door, his pale legs hanging over the edge, his right hand clutching a pillow. He looks as if he fainted after leaning over to tuck Rudi in.
Botha asked Dr Anthony in XX about the pool of blood on the bed where Martin was found. She said the DNA shows it's Rudi's blood. The blood on the floor was also Rudi's. The two smear patterns between the bedroom and bathroom were also Rudi's blood.
HvB said in his plea explanation, I could make out the silhouette of someone standing next to (between our two beds) or partially on Rudis bed.
The attacker had already hit Rudi and the attack was still in progress as Martin entered the room. If Rudi had put up his hands to protect himself thats because Rudi was facing the attacker who was between the beds and thats why Martin threw himself across the bed in order to save his son. By doing this, Martin left himself completely vulnerable and was hit on the back of the head as Dr Anthony suggested.
The red mark on the ground floor to the right of the first set of stairs is blood that dripped down from the main landing where Teresa and Marli were found.
You can see the axe and something else on the landing above the lower set of stairs.
The red circle on the wall shows the mark where the axe gouged the wall and theres blood spatter above it.
The red arrow is pointing to other bedrooms (ander slaapkamer).
Journalists werent allowed into the house so the schematic was no doubt based on an oral description. I think it is simply meant to show the boys bedroom in relation to the top landing and stairs as its obviously incorrect in a number of respects. The beds would have been much closer together as they each had a double bed.
If you look at the bedroom image its apparent that the en suite can only have been on the right-hand wall as the left-hand wall is a solid wall going down to the ground floor. The wall facing the door/passage would have had sliding doors and a balcony as did the master bedroom. Rudi is shown lying across the foot of the bed which we know is incorrect. At the foot of Henris bed closest to the brothers en suite bathroom, lies Rudi face down.
He saw his dad burst into the room, switch on the lights and lunge for the attacker ... who hit him several times across the head with the axe. We also know that he was hit from behind. He obviously wouldnt have been hit where hes shown in the image.
Dr Anthony postulated that Rudi's injuries showed he was lying on his right side and shielded his head, meaning he was aware of what was coming. If Rudi had been asleep on his right side when he was first attacked, he would have been facing the wall. He couldnt have been aware of what was coming. I suggest it was in fact HvB who turned on the light, not Martin, and this woke Rudi and he turned to see HvB approaching with the axe. Rudi, not HvB, shouted and his mother responded Whats going on? Martin rushed into the room and threw himself over Rudi to try and protect him and was hit on the back of the head. This seems to be borne out by:
Rudis bed, closest to the door, is soaked in blood in the area below the pillows.
Martin is lying face down on the side of the bed nearest the door, his pale legs hanging over the edge, his right hand clutching a pillow. He looks as if he fainted after leaning over to tuck Rudi in.
Botha asked Dr Anthony in XX about the pool of blood on the bed where Martin was found. She said the DNA shows it's Rudi's blood. The blood on the floor was also Rudi's. The two smear patterns between the bedroom and bathroom were also Rudi's blood.
HvB said in his plea explanation, I could make out the silhouette of someone standing next to (between our two beds) or partially on Rudis bed.
The attacker had already hit Rudi and the attack was still in progress as Martin entered the room. If Rudi had put up his hands to protect himself thats because Rudi was facing the attacker who was between the beds and thats why Martin threw himself across the bed in order to save his son. By doing this, Martin left himself completely vulnerable and was hit on the back of the head as Dr Anthony suggested.
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Tortoise
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Rudi may not have been lying on his right side sleeping. If he had his hands out to defend himself that means he knew what was coming and he wouldn't have been able to see Henri in between the beds. So I think it more likely Rudi was lying on his back, saw Henri and quickly turned his head to the right as he tried to move away across the bed, but Henri struck him before he could move. Then when Martin came in he immediately assessed it was too dangerous to tackle Henri so he ran to the left of Rudi's bed in order to move Rudi towards him out of Henri's reach but got struck on the back of the head as he leaned across.
As Rudi ended up close to the bathroom I think it would have been difficult for Henri to get to the shower without walking through the blood and leaving prints. Maybe that's why he said there was this struggle with the attacker at the foot of the beds. But Rudi wouldn't have been there at that stage because Henri said he was still lying on the bed. If Rudi's trail, rather than spatter, was disturbed by foot prints that will be the clincher because on his version the trail wasn't made until after Henri left the room.
As Rudi ended up close to the bathroom I think it would have been difficult for Henri to get to the shower without walking through the blood and leaving prints. Maybe that's why he said there was this struggle with the attacker at the foot of the beds. But Rudi wouldn't have been there at that stage because Henri said he was still lying on the bed. If Rudi's trail, rather than spatter, was disturbed by foot prints that will be the clincher because on his version the trail wasn't made until after Henri left the room.
ApplesInMyBra
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Here is a larger version of that image, JJ.
I'd be happy to translate anything you need from Afrikaans.
I'd be happy to translate anything you need from Afrikaans.
Apologies JudgeJudy, not sure how to properly quote and comment on snippets that are not consecutive.
IS: They started to fight but Henri managed to take the axe from the attacker who then pulled a knife and stabbed him. Henri hit him with the blunt side of the axe at the back of his body at the right shoulder.
I would like to see this demonstrated. I imagine an axe is weighted as a result of the shape of the metal head, meaning there should only be one comfortable way to hold it. Seems like a very awkward concept
IS: Henri assumed the person left by the back door because we always left the back door opened every night for the domestic worker to come inside the house.
We don't leave doors open in SA. We give our housekeepers a key...
IS: The attacker wore a homemade dark grey mask.
I wonder how he could tell it was home-made? A balaclava wouldn't likely be homemade (it is knitted, and mass-produced Imports are by far cheaper). It is a very specific detail and therefore quite a strange and seemingly unnecessary contradiction.
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IS: They started to fight but Henri managed to take the axe from the attacker who then pulled a knife and stabbed him. Henri hit him with the blunt side of the axe at the back of his body at the right shoulder.
I would like to see this demonstrated. I imagine an axe is weighted as a result of the shape of the metal head, meaning there should only be one comfortable way to hold it. Seems like a very awkward concept
IS: Henri assumed the person left by the back door because we always left the back door opened every night for the domestic worker to come inside the house.
We don't leave doors open in SA. We give our housekeepers a key...
IS: The attacker wore a homemade dark grey mask.
I wonder how he could tell it was home-made? A balaclava wouldn't likely be homemade (it is knitted, and mass-produced Imports are by far cheaper). It is a very specific detail and therefore quite a strange and seemingly unnecessary contradiction.
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JudgeJudi
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RSBM
I originally thought that it was crystal meth because it's the only drug that I'm aware of where people can commit such despicable acts while under its influence. However as you can see from the following, it really doesn't fit with HvB's appearance unless he'd only used it occasionally and had a truly bad psychotic episode.
When an individual chooses to use marijuana, their physical appearance may not change much. If that same person begins using the methamphetamine known as crystal meth, he or she can expect radical changes in appearance. In fact, the changes are so vivid and disconcerting that a deputy in Oregon began an unofficial study wherein he compared mug shots taken of inmates who had been booked with crystal meth in their systems.
Unfortunately, crystal meth is highly addictive and before long, tolerance develops, and the drug user must increase the amount of drugs they consume to continue the effects. As this cycle continues, what was meant to a quick way to lose a few pounds turns the addicted individual into a gaunt shadow of their former self.
http://www.axisresidentialtreatment.com/crystal-meth-addiction/physical-appearance/
I was hoping the State had subpoenaed the clinical records from the drug rehab centre where he was allegedly an in-patient but so far we've heard nothing.
My second suggestion was that he'd become schizophrenic due to pot.
Either of these two could have been responsible. If not, the prospect of him being out and about in the community is truly terrifying.
I originally thought that it was crystal meth because it's the only drug that I'm aware of where people can commit such despicable acts while under its influence. However as you can see from the following, it really doesn't fit with HvB's appearance unless he'd only used it occasionally and had a truly bad psychotic episode.
When an individual chooses to use marijuana, their physical appearance may not change much. If that same person begins using the methamphetamine known as crystal meth, he or she can expect radical changes in appearance. In fact, the changes are so vivid and disconcerting that a deputy in Oregon began an unofficial study wherein he compared mug shots taken of inmates who had been booked with crystal meth in their systems.
Unfortunately, crystal meth is highly addictive and before long, tolerance develops, and the drug user must increase the amount of drugs they consume to continue the effects. As this cycle continues, what was meant to a quick way to lose a few pounds turns the addicted individual into a gaunt shadow of their former self.
http://www.axisresidentialtreatment.com/crystal-meth-addiction/physical-appearance/
I was hoping the State had subpoenaed the clinical records from the drug rehab centre where he was allegedly an in-patient but so far we've heard nothing.
My second suggestion was that he'd become schizophrenic due to pot.
Either of these two could have been responsible. If not, the prospect of him being out and about in the community is truly terrifying.
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