South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

H: I remember him being on the scene, B when you arrived or after? H he arrived after me

B: when you were outside was anybody with Joubert inside. H at the walk through there were officers with

B: Before you took photos were other officers on the scene? H: when I arrived there were officers I don't know who

H: when I started taking photos then it was only me and Hanekom

B: this is important to show that the credibility of the scene was secured

B: now we know for fact that your evidence that Joubert wasn't in house when you took photos is wrong, he was inside

H agrees, B asks if anybody else, to his knowledge was on the scene at that time? H: Can't say anybody was

 

[JudgeJudi]

Captain Joubert had also been on scene, Botha says. Looks like you forgot that he had also been taking photos. He is in one of the photos.

Hitchcock says Joubert had been there for blood spatter.

Botha asks if anyone else was there at the time he was taking photos.

When he started taking his photos, it was Hanekom and him in the house.

Hitchcock says he can't confirm if anyone else had been there. Botha says nobody else was supposed to be there while he documented the scene.

Hitchcock says there was blood spatter and bloody footprints, which is why Captain Joubert and Captain Danie van der Westhuizen were there. This is their purpose.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-24-20170607

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B:do you agree that they shouldn't have been as you are documenting the scene. H Joubert was taking blood splatter - his division. Captain van der westerhuizen's division is prints in blood so they were both brought in for that purpose both would have been entitled to be on the scene for those purposes.

B: Are you saying Captain van der westerhuizen was on the scene on 27 January, very important?

H: he was on the scene on that day

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: you first have to document the scene before you do anything else on the scene? H: correct

B: so when Joubert was inside you had not yet taken photos inside. H: I am not certain of the time but it seems so

B: you said you first took photos outside and we now see that is when Joubert was inside? H: correct

B: so again, when you were outside who else was inside? G objects he has already said that he doesn't know who was inside

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: its so important, we know what is coming so we need to confirm this Judge Desai - proceed

B: Can you look at the photos and perhaps it will help you understand what order you took the photos

B: look at photo 228 yellow sticker, B ur description - possible point of entry at back door residence

H: correct.

B 230 if you come outside the back door shows the boundary wall H: yes

H: also identified as a possible point of entry. B-do you say that in your experience as an investigator of crimes scenes

H: we look at possible points of entry to the scene yes

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B:it seems the photos have been filed with time stamps which indicate when they were taken, do u accept this?

H: I just want to check my own records before confirming

B: will it help if during tea we give you access to the photos on the computer? H yes please, B lets leave that till after tea then

Judge Desai asks about a photo of gate and H confirms that the key was in the gate when H saw the gate and photographed it

 

[JudgeJudi]

Are you saying Captain van der Westhuizen was on the scene?

Hitchcock says he was at the scene.

Refers to photo 228 - indicates possible point of entry at back door of house.

Photo 230 shows the boundaray wall. Identified as a possible point of entry? Hitchcock says he did.

If we get to scene, a scenario is considered. Thereafter we go and look at possible entry points to the residence, Hitchcock says.

Hitchcock says he doesn't know if the side gate at 12 Goske Street was locked, but the key was in the keyhole.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-24-20170607

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B:when you started to collect evidence and forensic material, for eg. photo 243,

B:its marked S1 and next page Exhibit 2.On both evidence collection kits, the white boxes we see,someone writes the no of exhibit

B: someone describes where its taken for e.g. - there it says on pavement H: correct

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: Then u complete the form swabbing identification kit which is packaged with this little box - H correct- B: is the process done solo?

H: Hanekom helped me.

B: we see you take a photo to prove u have sealed it- H: correct

B: its sealed in 3 places H- yes

B: the handwriting on A225 paving in front- H: that is my handwriting, and also on ECH2

B: go to A281again we see sealed in all 3 places? H-Yes and again in exhibit 16 also all sealed

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: then you place them all in a bag which is also sealed H: yes

On the form we see- evidence sealing bag number, is that a sticker stuck on there? H: no B:how does that no. get on form?

H: the swabbing evidence collection kit is one kit 2 ear buds 2 empty boxes 3 papers green pink and white & seals

H: They then also have the evidence bag which is part of the whole kit

B:so this form has the number on it already as it has come in the kit? H- correct

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha - how is the forensic evidence processed?

You would have a forensic bag, it would have the relevant forms with it.

Are you assisted with it? Hanekom helped him, Hitchcock says.

Evidence put in bag and bag is sealed.

Hitchock says the swabbing kit has two swabs and 2 empty boxes, three different coloured papers, 3 seals, and evidence bag.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-24-20170607

 

[JudgeJudi]

Refers to open cupboard doors. Touch DNA taken. Shows a sealed and unsealed evidence box. Hitchcock says it possibly had not been sealed yet.

Reason DNA was searched for is to determine if a stranger had opened it.

That's correct, Hitchcock says.

Botha asks for the outcome of the DNA evidence.

Botha says they don't know the outcome.

Hitchcock says the results are not sent to them.

Seals can't just fall off, right? Botha asks. No, Hitchcock says.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-24-20170607

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: go to A397 these cupboard doors that are open is that how u found it? H correct- did you swab handles for touch DNA - yes

B: then we see a box that hasn't been sealed so then u haven't done the swab and sealed?

H: it could be that I have taken the swab but not yet sealed the box in that picture when it goes in the bag it would be sealed

B: this shows nicely how it look with a seal and the comparison in same photo of how one looks not sealed - H - yes

B: photo of drawers in the study and you took an evidence kit of touch DNA H correct

B:is it correct to say the reason you took samples of touch DNA was to check if a stranger left DNA? H- correct

B: this is all sent to Pretoria? H yes. B:do u know what the result was because we haven't received it? H-no we don't get results

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: go to A507 & A508 after this was sealed and placed in evidence collection bag where is it sent?

H: all is sent to Plattekloof lab in western cape

B: We can see on this photo its sealed and seal still on and we see your handwriting - H correct.
B: Lets compare this to A508

B: we see the kit sides off and your handwriting and we see the seal is on it? H correct

B: If we look at this page we don't see exhibit numbers? H yes,

B: good lets look at these photos then

 

[JudgeJudi]

When Botha's cross-examining like this it reminds me of "Will you walk into my parlour?" said the spider to the fly.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: U said 539 is place you swabbed evidence on 113 and under that, 114 and 115 and then exhibit 116 and 117 - H correct

B:who took these swabs that we see by sink shower, shower door and floor? You or Joubert?

H: Captain Joubert sprayed the luminal and wrote presumable blood detected

B: who took these swabs? You or Joubert? if not sure, just say that

H: wants to check his own documents,

H: I collected presumable blood from washing basin from bathroom where deceased found. so it was me

Adv B: I know what you wrote I am asking if you physically collected this evidence? Judge Desai - he said he made a note he did

H: I collected presumable blood 113 and on shower door 114. Judge Desai when did you make that note?
H: On 3 Feb a few days later

H: If I made that note I collected it I would remember

 

[PrimeSuspect]

When Botha's cross-examining like this it reminds me of "Will you walk into my parlour?" said the spider to the fly.

same. I dislike the man. He's paid to do a job but I believe nothing is beneath him and setting up for a fall is his style.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Adv B: its your evidence that 113-117 you collected yourself? H: I did and I can remember I did

refers to another evidence - H No that was Captain Joubert there who is showing evidence

B: but he is holding an ear bud in this photo? And u saying it wasn't him that took it? H: no he is just showing for the pic where the blood presumably was, luminal is not visible with the naked eye so he is just showing where it is- I collected the swab

B:look at Captain Joubert again he has the ear bud and it looks like he is taking a swab? H says yes

B: was a swab not taken of the shower door? Who took that evidence? Joubert? H- it could be? H yes it is Joubert

 

[JudgeJudi]

Swabs were taken of blood in basin and shower in the bathroom of the bedroom where the bodies were found - who took those, Botha asks?

Hitchcock said in his report, that he collected this.

He remembers collecting it himself.

Photo 543 referred to.

Captain Joubert's hand photographed. He is not taking the swab?

No, he is pointing it out, Hitchcock says.

Botha says he is holding the swab. Hitchcock says his hand is in the shower to show where the blood is.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-24-20170607

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: Again -exhibit 115 look at the photo (he has hair H is bald) - who is taking that swab? H - it is Joubert

B: so why did you say that you took the swab? Judge Desai he said he ascertained that from his notes

AdvB: why did you say you have independent memory of taking the swabs. H: I said I remember taking the swab and my note confirmed it

H now on the photo it appears as if it is Joubert who took the swab, I made a mistake