South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: is it possible that Marli moving her hand through B11 could cause that blood to spatter? J: wants to read the report

B: Exhibit B consists of all the photos that Kleynhans took- J: yes it is possible that could have created that spatter

B: blood stain found on the bedroom door- the door appears to be open and opens inwards into the room

B: u indicated in B15 there was a blood stain, mechanism was probably projection or impact

B: explain the difference between cast off and projection? J: there is not really a difference between the two
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B:why would u have indicated that B15 could have been deposited there either by projection or impact?is it difficult 2 distinguish?

J: it could be either B: if force and we know the donor was Rudi then it must have been when he was attacked on his bed? J possible

B: u deal with bloodstain on wall which borders bedroom and flight of stairs- 17 u say is cast-off pattern

B:I want to understand your methodology of measuring aspects, refers here- which stain is 1400mm from the floor? J: the top

B: but how do you normally work? J: most probably be the top one

J: normally I measure from the sticker identification mark

J: so rather refer to my sticker

B: that grouping of stains there u said is a cast-off pattern, those drops appear to be round how did u determine direction?

J: when u come closer to the circle there will be angles although it looks circular from this picture

B: that cast-off pattern we now know was caused by controlled hitting of the axe when swung by somebodys hand? J: correct

B: so that is what you would find in a controlled hitting, this is what you would find in the length of the cast off? J: correct
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: turn to page B18 blood stains against outer bedroom wall more or less above left side window

B: height on stickers is 1685mm but u will agree the spatter went a little bit higher than that? J: correct and the donor was Rudi

B: your evidence when Rudi was attacked he was on his bed with head on pillow and this probably created that impact spatter at B18

J: thats correct

B: references swipe and wipe patterns, whats the difference? object moving through blood vs object leaving blood


( I hope this doesn't go on all week!)
 
It seems very apparent that Botha knows very little about blood spatter. He doesn't look comfortable to me when querying all these spots of blood. Is he timewasting? He seems to have many questions that lead nowhere.
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: refers to photos J classified as swipe patterns u said blood stained object moved through a clean floor?

J: reads his paragraph B clarifies u mention a swipe pattern and a wipe pattern I am trying to see the difference

J: shows B the swipe pattern

B: but the next page in that same photo u have identified wipe patterns- J: yes its possible there was significant movement

B: yes there was an object that moved through a pool of blood, a swip could just as well be a wipe? J: its possible


https://twitter.com/ajnarsee

And just like that Galloway says the witness looks tired and asks for an adjournment
 
Another big thank you ladies. Botha is sending me to sleep. I just cannot see where he is going with this line of questioning. Is he going to take half a day to get to the point on every point he might make. This is how he wears people down. Poor Joubert is feeling tired. He has been standing for hours now.
 
I've summarised Tracey Stewart’s very lengthy report on yesterday’s testimony.

His report was based on the evidence he had considered compared to the HvB’s initial police statement – not the plea explanation. HvB’s version of the events, based on his initial statement, was inconsistent with Joubert’s blood spatter pattern analysis.

His opinion re Marli’s lack of DNA was that it would have related to the type and amount of wounds she sustained which may have influenced impact splatter.

HvB said that he opened the bathroom door slightly and this was his position while Rudi and Martin were attacked. This would mean that HvB was exposed to minimal blood shedding which wouldn’t be consistent with the blood spatter on his shorts or his socks – which both placed him in close proximity to Rudi and Martin when they were attacked.

HvB didn’t provide an explanation for the movement of his duvet or the movement of Rudi in his statement, whom HvB says lay on the bed seemingly unconscious or incapacitated.

Martin’s injuries suggest that he had entered the bed from the left-hand side and was attacked from the right side at the back of his head, neck and shoulders – another inconsistency in HvB’s statement.

In HvB’s version, Teresa was attacked near the bedroom door. This is consistent with the spatter identified by Joubert. However, HvB said in his statement that he didn’t see the attack on Teresa. This is inconsistent with the spatter found on HvB’s shorts and socks.

He performed the luminol test in the shower which revealed that blood had been washed away – the same blood that contained DNA of Rudi, Henri and Teresa as testified to by the DNA expert, Otto. He agreed with Otto’s assessment that this may have only been Rudi and HvB’s blood due to Teresa being their parent. He found blood transfer patterns where Rudi’s blood had come into contact with the bathroom floor. These transfer patterns and washed-away blood in the shower were not conclusive [? consistent] with HvB’s version as he had not gone back into the bathroom after the attacks.

In HvB’s version, the axe was thrown at the attacker after he had fled the room and down the stairs. This is not consistent with the blood spatter in the area where he believes the axe hit the wall. In his expert opinion, the spatter suggested that the blood pattern was created under the control of the handler. This is consistent with the ballistics expert’s testimony. Joubert believes that the axe in the wall was staged by HvB.

HvB stated that he fainted shortly after the attack and then regained consciousness on the staircase. This is inconsistent with the blood flow patterns observed on his body, as such a significant movement would have been observed in the flow of the blood patterns from the superficial wounds on his upper body.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/henri-van-breda-blood-spatter-evidence/
 
Continuation of my summary of Tracey Stewart’s report

Joubert’s most important findings

Henri’s Duvet

Two grey duvets were found in the boys’ bedroom. His opinion is that this duvet had been exposed to the blood-shedding in Rudi’s attack and had been rolled up and placed or thrown on the floor below HvB’s bed, near to where Rudi’s body was found.

He concluded that the duvet had adhered to the blood on the bedroom floor beneath HvB’s bed, which suggests that the blood was still wet when the duvet was placed or thrown on top of the blood on the floor at the bottom of HvB’s bed. He said that the majority of the bloodstains on the floor had been created before the duvet was thrown or placed on the floor.

The knife, which was found partially under Rudi’s bed, had a number of bloodstain patterns on it. One stain was a blood clot and the other a drip, which he believed was positioned on the knife when Rudi (with multiple head injuries) was moved off the bed.

He observed a blood pattern on the bottom corner of the duvet which was similar to the pattern of the knife blade. In his opinion the knife blade made contact with the duvet before arriving at the position it was found on the crime scene.

He didn’t confirm that the duvet movement was staged, but did point out that HvB gave no explanation for a) the movement of the duvet or Rudi, or b) explain the movement of the knife and its exposure to Rudi’s blood.

Blood from superficial wounds on HvB’s upper body

He observed multiple bloodstain patterns on his upper body from photographs taken in the ambulance. He said that the flow pattern of blood from HvB’s superficial chest wounds suggests that his torso was erect when the wounds were inflicted and that there was insignificant movement of his upper body before the blood dried. The flow pattern from his left arm indicates that there was no significant movement of his left arm when inflicted.

These statements are consistent with the evidence of both Dr Tiemensma and Professor Dempers, that the size, shape and regularity of Henri’s wounds are not consistent with an altercation which involved movement as alleged by Henri.

Blood pattern evidence surrounding attack of Rudi

He concluded that Rudi had been lying on his stomach with his head facing toward the adjacent wall and was likely asleep, surprised or unaware of the attack before it happened. He said that HvB had been standing next to Rudi’s bed when he was attacked. The flow of blood from his head wounds suggest that Rudi’s head may only have raised slightly after he was attacked and that there was no significant movement of Rudi’s head during the creation of the flow patterns.

He said that all the victims were attacked within a short period of time after which there had been a lapse in time before Rudi was moved or dragged from the bed and handled in front of the two beds the bedroom. HvB’s duvet was then placed or thrown next to where Rudi lay on the floor.

Blood spatter on the adjacent wall of the house near the security gate

One of the drops belonged to Rudi (confirmed by DNA analysis) and the two drops travelled through the air, through the blinds and open window and were deposited on the wall outside the house.

Blood spatter evidence of the attack on Martin

In his opinion, having considered the evidence, Martin was attacked while attending to Rudi. Martin didn’t have time to respond to the attack and that the attacker had been standing next to Rudi’s bed when he attacked Martin. Blood evidence suggests Martin had entered the bed from the left side.

Blood spatter evidence of the attack on Teresa and Marli

Teresa and Marli had been attacked in the doorway of the boy’s room. Teresa was likely facing her attacker. Marli, due to her defensive wounds, knew of the attack – suggesting that she had time to react to the attack.

[URL]http://www.capetownetc.com/news/henri-van-breda-blood-spatter-evidence/[/URL]
 
Henri didn’t mention in either his Initial Statement or Plea Explanation that he returned to the bathroom after the incident in order to wash any part of his body. Luminol revealed that blood had been washed away and DNA evidence of both himself and Rudi was found in multiple places in the shower. This is going to work against him.

This is a perfect example of how a court may draw an adverse inference as he definitely should have raised this in one of his statements. It will be even worse for him if he fails to testify and provide an explanation as to how the blood of both of them was found in the shower.
 
Excellent JJ, thank you. Do you have an opinion as to why Tracey thinks the lack of Marli's DNA is such a huge question for the court?
 
I'm glad that we now know how Rudi's DNA probably got onto the knife. For those who may have missed yesterday's testimony, Joubert said that:

The knife was found partly underneath Rudi’s bed. There were multiple bloodstains, both spatter and non-spatter, on the knife blade as follows:


  • Blood clot on knife blade. When the knife was moved from the floor to the bed for processing, the clot fell off.
  • Spatter bloodstains were observed on knife blade, spatter bloodstains described as circular with no lineal orientation. These are described as a drip.
  • They were probably created from blood dripping from a source in motion, perpendicular to and above the knife position.
  • Suggests possible deposition mechanism when Rudi, with multiple head injuries, was moved off the bed.
 
Another thought - will there be a problem with Joubert having used HvB's initial statement rather than his plea statement when drawing his conclusions?
 
Henri didn’t mention in either his Initial Statement or Plea Explanation that he returned to the bathroom after the incident in order to wash any part of his body. Luminol revealed that blood had been washed away and DNA evidence of both himself and Rudi was found in multiple places in the shower. This is going to work against him.

This is a perfect example of how a court may draw an adverse inference as he definitely should have raised this in one of his statements. It will be even worse for him if he fails to testify and provide an explanation as to how the blood of both of them was found in the shower.

Thank you JJ, Prime and all those helping, for the superb information you are providing, hour after hour, day after day.
Besides facts presented you are also providing us, with a great of your knowledge, as to 'trials'.
Here we are, in the comforts of our homes, experiencing such detailed accounts, as if we are present in the court room.
I hope, each night, you knock yourself out, getting enough rest for the slog the next day. This must be exhausting, physically and mentally.

Besides facts given to us, hearing about the 'brutal nature' of these murders, seeing this individual and his defense and actions, would be sickening.
I am squirming, being thousands of miles away, so it must be horrid to all present.
Karma happens!
 
Excellent JJ, thank you. Do you have an opinion as to why Tracey thinks the lack of Marli's DNA is such a huge question for the court?

I'm still listening to yesterdays testimony as I find it impossible to take it all in while I'm posting tweets. IMO she's not qualified to make such an assertion.
 
What a gem you are, JJ! Thank you very much for those summaries; makes it all so clear, but what an unbelievably bloody scene it must have been. I find myself constantly imagining his mother for those few minutes facing her own son who was about to axe her to death... too awful! HvB born without the ability to have empathy even for his mother.
 
Another thought - will there be a problem with Joubert having used HvB's initial statement rather than his plea statement when drawing his conclusions?

I don't believe so. Botha objected to the fact that both statements were being mentioned but Desai said this was a matter for the court to decide, and believe me, Desai will have a long hard look at each of them.

Remember that Henri wasn't charged until 18 months after the murders. Until that date, the State only had the Initial Statement to work with and their experts would have been working on the case from the day of the murders. The Plea Explanation, version 2 of his story, wasn't tendered until after he'd been charged and he pleaded not guilty.

I've spent a lot of time comparing both these statements and there are a huge number of discrepancies. Many of them may seem insignificant to most as they relate to the events of that evening before the murders, but IMO they hold the key as to why the events unfolded as they did. Unfortunately we'll never know why or precisely how he did it.

A person's memory in the hours following a huge event will always be the most accurate. Given that he had 18 months to consult with his lawyers, I think this is why we're finding so many discrepancies within the Plea Explanation let alone between the two statements. To me this is a deliberate ploy by the defence to muddy the waters.
 
What a gem you are, JJ! Thank you very much for those summaries; makes it all so clear, but what an unbelievably bloody scene it must have been. I find myself constantly imagining his mother for those few minutes facing her own son who was about to axe her to death... too awful! HvB born without the ability to have empathy even for his mother.

Thanks L2L. This evidence is sooo important and I thought it was better to paraphrase Tracey's excellent article so we can keep going back to it rather than scrolling forever in such a long article.

What he did has kept me up many a night. I made an almost identical statement as you to my hubby this morning. Words just can't describe what this monster did. I think by now I've read nearly everything on the internet about this case and the one thing that strikes me over and over again is that I haven't seen one single person (other than his family members) who believes he's innocent ... not one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
249
Guests online
2,102
Total visitors
2,351

Forum statistics

Threads
599,802
Messages
18,099,781
Members
230,930
Latest member
Barefoot!
Back
Top