South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

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Thankyou all for your thought on the blood spatter, I also wondered how marli's blood wasn't on Henri's socks but I does make sense if you think of only hitting once in the same place compared with hitting into a place that is already wet with blood. I really hope he is found guilty in this. Do we know if Henri will take the stand.
 
Hi Everyone :wave:

553193-245930-14.jpg
 
bleuboy said:
Thankyou all for your thought on the blood spatter, I also wondered how marli's blood wasn't on Henri's socks but I does make sense if you think of only hitting once in the same place compared with hitting into a place that is already wet with blood. I really hope he is found guilty in this. Do we know if Henri will take the stand.
Click to expand...

Botha has confirmed last week that HvB will be testifying. I am truly looking forward to that day but won't be surprised if he changes his mind.
 
[FONT=&amp]Capt. Joubert said those patterns suggested Henri was standing next to his brother’s bed when he was attacked.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
Martin van Breda’s injuries and blood suggested he was trying to help Rudi when he was attacked, Capt. Joubert said, with Teresa and Marli then attacked front-on as they stood in the doorway to the bedroom.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/tragedy-written-in-the-blood-ng-b88600370z

One only needs to read this short description to know that there was no intruder.

The other thing that Henri never explained is why he came out of the bathroom when he did. He was in there too scared to move while he watched Rudi and Martin being hacked to death. Then he heard Teresa being attacked. Who would then overcome their fear to come out of the bathroom and present themselves to the same fate?

I don't know why I'm still even talking about an intruder.

Hurry up and get Henri behind bars for the rest of his living days.
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Thanks prime. I'm really hoping he doesn't back out. I'm wishing we see him squirm and tangle himself into more slip ups.
 
When I read @Traceams on my iPad she says she is working on "a diagram of the scene to walk you through. Unfortunately we will only do it on Monday".

From the associated tweet I think she is going to make a video. I cannot post a link because the tweet doesn't appear on Chrome or IE, only on Safari. Does anyone else get this?

The url is https://mobile.twitter.com/Traceyams

Ahhh maybe it is because on the iPad I used mobile twitter.


EDIT

Before someone tells me, I know I can quote to the forum from Safari but it such a pain unless somebody knows otherwise. I copy and paste relevant parts of the article/tweet into Notes and then copy and paste into the forum. Is there a better way of doing it?
 
Henri van Breda will testify in his own defence, probably when the Western Cape High Court resumes for the third term on October 9.

---

Once the State wraps up, Botha will have to play his hand which is most likely going be a request to the court that he call Van Breda only at the start of the new term on October 9 and not next week.

“Normally the accused testifies first,” said an informed source. “This prevents him amending his version of events once his experts have testified. But the defence can request that Henri doesn't testify first so long as they provide Judge Desai with compelling reasons for the change of order.”

Botha will probably choose this route as the second term ends on Thursday and he would not want a two-week interruption of his client’s crucial testimony. Experts say

Botha would rather utilise the recess to rest and prep his client exhaustively without any distractions.

Van Breda’s testimony and cross-examination is expected to last at least five days.

If Desai allows Van Breda to take the stand in the new term, then it’s likely that Botha will lead with expert witnesses who do not address the merits of the case.

more to read at link https://www.iol.co.za/weekend-argus/vanbreda-trial-henri-to-take-the-stand-11238542
 
Live recording for today

[video=youtube;ASCsXi56ysE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASCsXi56ysE[/video]
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Morning all, late start this morning (11h30) due to the taxi strike in Cape Town,follow me for live updates from 11h30

Adv Botha continues his cross examination of Captain Joubert

B: refers to J's conclusions on the flow patterns of Henri's cuts on his forearm and his chest, no significant movement of chest or forearm when that specific flow patter was created, can we go to those photographs you observed
 
Botha still questioning Joubert about Rudi's dried blood flow patterns.

Ah sorry I thought I heard him say Rudi, but it seems to be about Henri.
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: Taking J to a close up photograph of the blood flow patterns on Henri, taken in the ambulance that morning

B: clearly the stab didnt bleed alot, minimal bleeding

B: the flow of blood very slight zig zag? J: reason for that is blood drying and flaking off

B: would that not have anything to do with the way blood trickled down chest? J: could be from chest hairs

B: appears to be a deviation to left at nipple? J my opinion is that is pooling of the blood all depends on the contours of the skin

B: u are saying with the way of flow u would not expect significant movement but u would agree this part of body would

B; not be prone to significant twisting or turning. J I referred to his statement running after attacker and falling on the stairs

J and passing out on the stairs that would change his upper body position

B do u know what position he was in on stairs? J; no B surely that plays a role

B so if he was on his side deviation of flow to that side? J: yes B: that holds true of fainting? yes

B: Running? J: it depends how he was running

B: Then ur reference to the flow patterns on his forearm?

B: these cuts are even more superficial? J: correct

B: blood oozing, not a flow out at a rate, slow oozing out

J correct. B then the cut closest to left hand shows a smear

B: these are the only photos available. J yes, B is that a flow or is it a smear? J its a flow with smears around it

J: it shows a disturbance
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: the cuts are horizontal lay out, approximately 45 degree angles irt the cut, would u agree considering the slow oozing of blood

B: could such a smear have been caused by when he fell brushed his arm against something? J thats correct

B: duvet that was found next to rudi, we see that clearly came from Henri's bed? J correct

B: blood flow patterns on the head of Rudi, refer to graphic and close ups of Rudi Desai: cameras do not video this

B: u said the flow patterns on Rudi's head meant that his head must have been slightly raised when those were formed
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: the 3 u refer to are the ones on the left frontal part of his forehead? J correct

B: in your notes you said lying on his arm could have created the slightly raised head

B: as a blood stain analyst u would not be able to say where they were created in the room only that his head was slightly raised

J: correct. B you are not saying that they were necessarily created on the bed u r saying they were created when he was lying more or less in the position he was found?

J: you see where the flow started and it dried so there is no indication of other flow patterns so most plausible is that happened while he was on the bed.

B: well then we will have to examine this more closely

B: refers to more photos of Rudi. It appears his head is touching the base of the bed in that photograph

B: the way he is lying here that would have given enough raise to his head to create those flow patterns? J correct

B: if they formed while he was lying on the bed with his head on the pillow, having regard to photo 91, apart from the 3 we see

B: closest to his hairline we see a number of flow patterns on his face and they are not all in the same direction as those on his forehead and they must have been created at a time when his head was in a different position. J: correct
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: refers to photo closer to Rudi's eye and a flow pattern near his mouth

J: that one was formed when I turned him

B: we see flow patterns on his chin, nose etc all different directions

B: which of those were created first? J: I cant say that, B: so its possible they were created before the ones on forehead

J: I wouldnt agree, the ones on the forehead in my opinion were created as part of the bleeding process

J: my opinion that forehead flows were created first and during movement of Rudi the rest were created

B: flow pattern close to hairline appears to emanate from the impact at the top of his skull

J: the hair was soaked so u coudnt determine which impact on his head

B: so u can only look at the ones where its not soaked, I see one slightly up and one slightly down

J: it depends on the contours of the hair but the flow patterns are in the same direction

B: they start at the hairline and they flow in two different directions

J: it could have been from the multiple blows to his head that changed that flow pattern

B: so there could be multiple reasons for the change in the flow of blood there

J: position of victim was on his right side facing away from the attacker he sustained that injury while facing that way

J: anthony confirmed this so when he received the first blow those patterns were created

B: when he received the first blow do we know which way he moved his head? J: we dont know that

B: its possible that he moved his head after the first blow and that would have meant the flow patterns would have moved




(Botha wants confirmation that every blood movement could have multiple reasons!)
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

J: I have said those emanated from the initial blows thats the most plausible explanation considering all other factors

B: no but I just gave you another explanation and you agreed, if he moved head after first blow u said flow patterns would have moved to the back of his head, given that information u cant say that the flow patterns came from the initial blow

J: those 3 happened when he was lying on his right side

B: Steyl agrees that he was on his right side when they were created and that his head was slightly raised

B: the issue here is your opinion on when those flow patterns were created

B: we see significant bleeding on the floor and know that he must have been bleeding when he was in a different position

B: from the one he was eventually found. If he was lying there on the floor bleeding could those flows have been created there

J: its possible

B: what if he was bleeding in this position from active or passive bleeding

J: for gravity flow he would have to be on his back

B: r u saying if he was lying there in a similar position for those 3 flow patterns to have been created he must have been alive

J: thats correct

(Botha is infuriating!!)
 
https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: if he was lying on his back it would have been difficult for those wipe patterns to be created?

J: it all depends

J: the flood pattern on his neck could have only been sustained while on his back

B: we are examining the possibility that rudi was lying on his back for extended period of time to create this amount of blood

J: there was alot of movement in that stain so I can't say

J: for the last half of that stain you can see he was in position he was found in u can see forearm making pattern

B: his body must have been closer to that shoe, while he was there it appears to indicate that he was on his front not his back

J: thats correct

B: lets assume that there was this passive bleeding on his back, he bled out and he was dead,

Assessor asks if duvet next to Rudi would make those swipe or wipe patterns? J no

B: there seems to be 3 transfer patterns against the wall, above the plug closest to bathroom entrance, below plug

B: B21&B22 u indicated the hair of Rudi had blood in it and made contact with the wall on those positions

J thats correct, B: Mr Steyl agrees but we know Rudi had short hair

B: if he was passively bleeding he must have remained in that position for quite some time to create that amount of blood

B: if he was dead at that time someone must have lifted him up to create that pattern with his head on the wall, if his head was pushed there where did the blood to create the 2 transfer patterns right next to the bathroom

B: but at that stage he would have created the first transfer pattern and he was dead not bleeding actively

B: these 3 stains are a fair amount of blood in the transfer patterns, created a slight pooling on the skirting

B: would u expect that amount to be transferred from someone who was already dead and had bled out as much as they had

J: it is possible, it is also possible they could have been from someone who was still actively bleeding
 
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