South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm going over the attack in my mind again with regards to Teresa and Marli. What if they approached the bedroom door together and HvB hearing Teresa call out, he immediately turned the corner and struck both with the axe. Teresa needed only 2 or 3 strikes to bring her down. This could be a reason why Marli had a chance at defending herself before she was overcome and fell to the floor.

 

[Marples]

I'm going over the attack in my mind again with regards to Teresa and Marli. What if they approached the bedroom door together and HvB hearing Teresa call out, he immediately turned the corner and struck both with the axe. Teresa needed only 2 or 3 strikes to bring her down. This could be a reason why Marli had a chance at defending herself before she was overcome and fell to the floor.

Even though it would be so hard for her to do, you have to hope Marli can get in there and say "It was Henri". But knowing Botha he'd then try and claim she's saying that for more of the estate or some such rubbish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Good morning all, we are back in court for the cross examination of Captain Brown, Advocate Combrink will proceed with the cross

You didnt testify with the marks E,F and G but it was in your report

Adv C: marks F&G you dealt with and conclude that you cannot exclude possibility they were caused by the axe

Captain Brown: correct and I stand by that position

C: for purposes of your deductions do you assume, based on a snap shot, of what happened at the incident

C: Ideally you would be first person on the scene after incident takes place, for example, in that case not much has changed

C: let me put it another way you arrived on 28th around 09h30 B- correct

Adv C: by then they had removed Marli and removed the bodies- B: there were no bodies

C: we know that people had removed bodies and a number of other police officials had been on scene before you?

C:so I am asking, if ideally if you want the best snap shot you would want to be there as soon as possible after incident? B-yes

C: so the more time that goes by and people that enter the scene the more chance of things changing, contamination

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

C: Its an obvious forensic fact that I am stating. B: yes

C: you bagged a piece of cement, D. B yes, Then you found fragment on the steps marked it E and sealed it in bag

Combrink hands up set of photos taken by Captain Brown- they seem to be zoomed in

C: first picture marked E. Next page is a photo taken by Hitchcock also that little fragment

C: page back again and you can see that the fragment has moved, In E it lies parallel and on page 2 it is perpendicular

Sgt Hitchcock took the photo around 1 hour before Captain Brown and Brown confirms it has moved slightly

C: now shows B a black dot, a blood spot, on the next photo on the very same step this was taken the previous day - no fragment

C is referring to photos taken on 27th where it appears that the fragment Brown marked as E wasn't on that step.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Adv C: another photo on 27th, the previous day of that same step where the fragment is quite clearly not there

Adv G: not sure whether C is convinced that this step is the same or if it is just his view, there are different shoe prints

Judge Desai - the witness can answer this, Botha- we can always show video again and you can just count the steps

Sorry that wasn't botha that said count the steps- Combrink is speaking for defence

B: if it is the same step then yes there is no fragment

C: carefully look, compare the blood spots, see the one on the corner of step and how similar that looks?

Judge Desai this establishes that between 2pm on 27th till 1h45 on 28th there is a scrap on the tile at that spot

C: so I am putting to you that this occurred after the incident - Desai possible it was kicked there

C: move to area marked F,you found you couldn't exclude possibility it was caused by axe

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

C: The shoes in the picture are Captain Brown's, feet are covered by a plastic shoe cover

C: you marked it F and its clear that chip is like a chip away there

C: close up, is it correct that little piece on the side there is E

C; Your finding was that it couldn't fit into it. So you took piece in E and put it there for this photograph

C: if you see this picture, body of Teresa, above her right heel there is no mark there, this was taken previous day by Hitchcock

Brown checks her notes to see if she had referenced the most upper stair

C: now showing 3 parallel lines of blade going down to show that it is the same area she noted

B says it looks like it is the same stair

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

C: finally second last photograph, zoomed in on area between her ankles, you see there is no damage there to that step. B- yes

C: you also took samples of that step, with rubbery substance, B I did yes

C: last photograph is a bag that you photographed and you made marks and comments on it

C you say possible from axe or paramedic or paramedics trolley. B yes I got that version from the CSI team on the scene

B: I offered to process everything due to possibility being there

C: why didnt you deal with that possibility in your report? B because they weren't sure which was made by the gurney

C well we now know that F occurred after the fact and we can surmise that it was caused by the gurney

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Brown says it a possibility and C says its a fact that it didnt occur during the incident

B: I didnt take the photo so I accept the possibility. C did you not think it was important to note the possibility of gurney?

B: I didnt have the gurney. C well shouldn't you have asked for it so as to exclude it?

C-as an objective scientist you aren't lead by CSI team you have comparative tests available, you can have gurney brought to u?

B: I didn't do it as they were unsure I processed everything

C: You included it on the bag not in your report? You said the axe was a possibility and only processed the axe?

Brown: The axe was the tool that was indicted to me as being used in the murders

 

[JudgeJudi]

Day 26

Today's live news feed

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-26-20170613

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

C: when you have something available, easy to use "Vir Iemand met n nuwe hamer lyk alles soos n spyker"

C: Handing up pictures of what he believes is a standard gurney used in South Africa. Use to stretcher people from accident

C point is to say for instance if you take this one, made of metal, they have edges so she herself has considered the possibility

B: agrees that its possible that gurney made damage

B: it wasn't part of the crime scene and thats why I didnt offer to go that route

C: with respect the axe wasn't found by you on the scene it was brought to you by police later

 

[JudgeJudi]

Adv Matthys Combrink to cross examine.

Brown arrived on the 28th at 09:30. There were no bodies anymore.

Officers who had collected and bagged the evidence, marked it with cones.

Matthys says ideally the best time to view scene is as soon as possible. Brown agrees.

Refers to photos of E, F and G.

E is a fragment which landed on the 12th stair.

Refers to a photo taken by WO Hitchcock. He says the fragment had moved.

Hitchcock's photo had been taken before hers. She says it had moved, slightly.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-26-20170613

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Brown:it wasn't on the scene at the time.C but had they looked at their own photographs they would have seen marks happened after

C I don't need to argue but it obviously should have been excluded as a possibility. Brown disagrees

C: it is something that was seen as a possibility and its an avenue that could have been followed up and it wasn't

B: I noted on the evidence bag that it was a possibility but I did not pursuit it as the CSI team was unsure

C: given what you know now would you have pursued it? B: No

 

[JudgeJudi]

Next photo shows a photo taken the day before. Blood spot on the tile stairs. Refers to another another photo where a fragment which had been there before was missing.

When Hitchcok took the pic, the fragment wasn't there. When she took her photo 24 hours later, the fragment was present.

Desai says it was possible it was kicked there.

F is a chip. Combrink says at the body of Teresa, there is no marking between her feet

Refers to three streams of blood coming down the staircase form the top of the landing. Area between two ankles show no damage, Combrink says.

17th stair, could be axe or paramedics trolley. This version she got from CSI team, Brown says.

F was not there during the incident, and probably result of the gurney of the paramedics, Combrink says. Brown says it is a possibility. Cobrink says F is a fact, didn't occur during the incident.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-26-20170613

 

[JudgeJudi]

Gurney wasn't present at the time I was there. As I said, it was a possibility they had given me at the scene, Brown says.

I took it upon myself to process everything I had seen at the scene and taken into account what CSI team had told me.

Combrink says she is not led by the CSI team.

The tiles damaged, whether by gurney or axe, I processed everything. There were not sure if it was the gurney, that is why I processed everything.

No, you processed the axe, Combrink says.

Combrink says says 'Vir iemand met 'n nuwe hammer, lyk alles soos 'n spuiker'.

Tells Brown the appropriate thing would have been to obtain medical scoop and to compare the edges

Scoops used to stretcher people from an accident.

He has handed up a photo of one. Its made of metal and has edges, Combrink points out. Top end has metal edges, then blades coming down. They are balanced on a hard surface.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-26-20170613

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

C we know the axe is not what caused the damage on this step.

B: I am not excluding the fact that it was possibly caused by the axe as I did not take the photographs

C: assuming the photographs are correct and mark F occurred between original photos and when you took photos

C; Had you known the fact would you then have dealt differently? Brown - No

B: I could also look at other possibilities of sharp edge features?

 

[Fluffykins]

RSBM, RBBM

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

C: when you have something available, easy to use "Vir Iemand met n nuwe hamer lyk alles soos n spyker"

Google translate: "For someone with a new hammer everything looks like a nail"

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

C: in order of things first was axe and the next best was the gurney as you noted it

B: then I would have had to look at the gurney and a number of other possibilities. Desai asks like sharp shoes?

C: For the purposes of what I am telling you here you can exclude the axe?

C: another photograph of chip and an area with further cement parts that have been chipped away from the tile

C: next photograph on the day you were there you see the debris and the same mark

 

[JudgeJudi]

Gurney wasn't present at the time I was there. As I said, it was a possibility they had given me at the scene, Brown says.

I took it upon myself to process everything I had seen at the scene and taken into account what CSI team had told me.

Combrink says she is not led by the CSI team.

The tiles damaged, whether by gurney or axe, I processed everything. There were not sure if it was the gurney, that is why I processed everything.

No, you processed the axe, Combrink says.

Combrink says says 'Vir iemand met 'n nuwe hammer, lyk alles soos 'n spuiker'.

Tells Brown the appropriate thing would have been to obtain medical scoop and to compare the edges

Scoops used to stretcher people from an accident.

He has handed up a photo of one. Its made of metal and has edges, Combrink points out. Top end has metal edges, then blades coming down. They are balanced on a hard surface.

Combrink says she could have found something like this and compared it. Brown says it wasn't part of the crime scene.

It's not there at the time she normally arrives at the scene.

Something as an objective scientists she should have checked, Combrink says. She doesn't agree.

We know the axe is not what caused the damage on the stairs, Combrink says.

Brown refuses to exclude it, saying she cant testify on someone else's photos.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-26-20170613

 

[JudgeJudi]

F occurred between when the initial photos taken and when she took her own. Had she known that before, would she have dealt with it differently? No, she says.

Brown says she could look at other possibilities of sharp edged features which might have caused it. There could be infinite possibilities.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-26-20170613

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

C: Hitchcock took this on day before, you can see on right of juncture of tiles there is a bit missing

C; You can see that the chip and the mortar on the first and second photograph is not there on the last photograph

Brown: there are chips there but not as big as the first two photographs

C: I am not talking about the little chips on the right, I am talking about the full spectrum of the damaged area

C: refers to a particular chip that is not visible in Hitchcock's photo taken the day before Brown was at the scene