South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

[PrimeSuspect]

That's true, JJ, the Botha's of this world are the street fighters of the judicial system and dirty fighting isn't below them. I believe in a fair trial for an accused person, this isn't one of them, imo.

I followed an appeal in the US a few years ago for a young man accused of murdering his wife. I looked through all the evidence and was astounded that he was found guilty. He was hours away from the home staying in a Hotel when his wife was brutally bashed to death (their 2 yr old daughter was left unharmed), the two strikes against him? A CCTV camera in the hotel corridor turned away, no knowledge or witnesses of who turned it and a wedge that was placed under the back door to keep it open. As much as he may be guilty and is currently serving his sentence, sometimes flimsy evidence which is presented well to an impressionable jury can bring a guilty verdict.

In this trial, Botha is reaching for the improbable and succeeding in his delay tactics. There's a neighbour who heard men arguing at the Van Breda household between 10 pm and 12.10 am on the night of the murder and The Star Trek 2 scenario is born! I really hope Galloway blows this one out of the water in her closing statement because she didn't appear to challenge it, maybe it's just too stupid to even bother at this stage.

Now we have James Reade-Jahn, Marli's ex-boyfriend who was 15/16 yrs old at the time presented as a crucial witness to the possibility of there being another axe?! He visited the home, how many times?! He entered the scullery, how many times? So after 2 yrs, this kid imagines the axe head could have been black not green! Maybe and most likely, the light wasn't on!!
Precious worked at the Van Breda's 3 days a week, she identified the axe in court as similar to the one kept in the scullery but no, her testimony isn't good enough! This to me isn't about a fairness, it's about misleading the court and wasting valuable time for the reasons many have listed in this thread.

We've seen the same tactics used here in Australia. Gerard Baden Clay denies murdering and disposing of his wife, he was found guilty and is in prison. Recently his defence team came up with a scenario for his appeal, that Allison accidentally died and he panicked and discarded her body. GBC hasn't confessed this is what happened but his lawyers said, well, maybe it did, and he should have his sentenced reduced!! Luckily, it wasn't accepted by the appeals court but still, the audacity?!!

There a great defence lawyers and then, there are the lawyers who are paid to keep murderers out of jail. I'm sorry for the long rant but I'm frustrated that HvB is free until next year, it isn't right. It's no reflection on SA alone, we've seen many trials go down the rabbit hole to absurdity, but after following Pistorius and Dewani's pathetic trials and now this, grrrrrr!!! :cry:

 

[Tortoise]

Part of me wonders if he had harboured this plan of killing his family ever since the parents moved back to SA, and he waited until Rudi joined them, so that he could utilise the SA violent crimes statistics and notorious police failures.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Part of me wonders if he had harboured this plan of killing his family ever since the parents moved back to SA, and he waited until Rudi joined them, so that he could utilise the SA violent crimes statistics and notorious police failures.

That is quite scary but very possible . From the article I posted recently it did look as though he may well have been having behavioural problems (possibly due to drugs) before he left Australia. I think he has a sinister look about him - dull, cold, expressionless eyes but maybe he is depressed??

 

[Tortoise]

That is quite scary but very possible . From the article I posted recently it did look as though he may well have been having behavioural problems (possibly due to drugs) before he left Australia. I think he has a sinister look about him - dull, cold, expressionless eyes but maybe he is depressed??

I don't pick up any depression. All I see is arrogance, which is even more alarming given his age.

 

[Marples]

My exact thoughts! But why is this monster not only allowed to enjoy freedom but also be a very real threat to anyone living with or near him? When the trial resumes
and the noose tightens around his neck, as it surely will, who's to stop him killing again? He wouldn't hesitate for a second if the mood so took him, in my opinion. Doubt he'd be enjoying freedom here in Australia; JJ would be able to comment on that. Makes my blood boil to know he's probably partying during the coming weeks. Cold, callous killer incapable of any remorse and I won't be the least surprised if he kills again.

If this were being tried in Australia he'd almost certainly be on remand. Very hard to get bail in a murder trial here. Being as how you're accused of well, killing people and all.


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[Marples]

Thanks for the translation.

I'd say the chances of her getting her memory back in the next 8 weeks are zero. It's now been close to 2 1/2 years and there hasn't been one word said or even hinted at that she's recovered it.

Agree, sad as that is for the State. Though, if she did have her memory back as if you'd tell, in case I'm Out On Bail Henri decided to go finish the job in case she talked


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[Marples]

Part of me wonders if he had harboured this plan of killing his family ever since the parents moved back to SA, and he waited until Rudi joined them, so that he could utilise the SA violent crimes statistics and notorious police failures.

Same. And the pitiful sentencing. If this occurred in Australia and he was found guilty he'd be done for.


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[JudgeJudi]

You’ll recall that Media 24 sought to have the trial live streamed and Judge Desai agreed subject to certain conditions. HvB and The National Director of Public Prosecutions opposed this and appealed to the SCA. Without any fanfare they delivered their judgment on 21 June. While we’re fans of Leach, J from the OP appeal, as I pointed out earlier, Ponnan J is more senior and he is the author of this important and extremely well-written judgment.

SAFLII‏ @saflii
SCA: Appeal succeeds in Van Breda v Media 24 Limited http://bit.ly/2sWS21G

or click here

The fact that HvB and the NDPP won the appeal doesn’t mean what you think it does.

“[78] In the result:

(a) The appeal succeeds to the extent that paragraph 1.3 of the order of the high court is set aside.

(b) The matter is remitted to the high court for reconsideration in accordance with the principles set out in this judgment.

(c) The costs of appeal of the appellant, Henri Christo Van Breda, shall be paid by the first respondent, Media 24”.

So the SCA has now referred the matter back to Judge Desai to rule whether or not the matter will be live streamed, and from the entire tenor of the judgment, I believe he will agree, subject to his original conditions.

Please read paras. 4, 5, 6 and 7 for a background to the appeal. Trials in a number of countries are also cited but the one of undoubted greatest interest will be that of the OP trial (paras. 39, 40 and 41).

 

[JudgeJudi]

I believe the reason for the above judgment is that the SCA agrees that generally speaking it should be left to the trial judge to decide whether or not a trial is televised if media companies wish to do so. The ConCourt had no appetite to hear the appeal and left it to the SCA to decide, and the SCA doesn't want people running to them on, no doubt, an ever increasing basis. This would appear to be a landmark decision.

 

[JudgeJudi]

The judgment handed down by the Supreme Court of Appeal (SCA) regarding the filming of Henri van Breda’s criminal trial is a significant one.

The judgment adds to a body of law developed over the past few years that promotes the principal of open justice and finally closes the door on the blanket exclusion of cameras in court.

After meticulously recording the growing acceptance of cameras in the courtroom in several major jurisdictions around the world, including the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany and Israel, the court came to the conclusion that it would be irrational to exclude television coverage of court proceedings as a rule.

One by one, the court dismantled all of the stock arguments typically raised against televised court proceedings. The blanket exclusion of televised proceedings, as advocated for by the National Director of Public Prosecutions (NDPP), was rejected outright as impermissible.

What this judgment means is that televised court proceedings are not only an inescapable reality, but also one that is constitutionally ordained.

The author of the article is an experienced litigation attorney and Johannesburg-based media lawyer. He acts as News24's legal representative.

http://www.news24.com/Columnists/Gu...eda-case-is-a-victory-for-the-public-20170623

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks JJ. That was heavy going over breakfast. It will be interesting to see how Desai proceeds. I think the biggest problem is that a large part of the trial is now over and Desai may feel it is too late to televise the rest.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thanks JJ. That was heavy going over breakfast. It will be interesting to see how Desai proceeds. I think the biggest problem is that a large part of the trial is now over and Desai may feel it is too late to televise the rest.

I thought the SCA might not want it televised because it was half over, but obviously they were looking at this as a landmark case for future trials. I really hope Desai sticks with his original ruling. I have a bad case of schadenfreude when it comes to HvB.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks JJ.

Just copying over a few tweets

Just read the SCA's decision in #VanBreda where we acted for amicus, @MediaMattersZA. A phenomenal, learned judgment by Ponnan JA 1/
SCA: Ponnan gives scholarly analysis of right 2 broadcast around world. Concludes that as starting point shld be allowed 2/
SCA: But always remains open to trial crt to make different direction exercising its discretion. However witnesses must object 3/
SCA: even if judge determines witness has valid objection to cameras, other alernatives e.g. delayed broadcast shld be explored 4/
SCA: crts should not restrict broadcast unless real risk of demonstrable prejudice (my comment - fantastic 4 media freedom) 6/ [5?]
SCA: not all of reasoning of Desai J correct so set aside and remitted to him to decide in accordance w principles in SCA 6/
SCA 7/ My comment - magnificent affirmation by SCA of right to broadcast ALL crt proceedings (incl trials) as a default principle
SCA : Ponnan JA is the open justice SCA king (remember Sanral case on access to Crt docs). Takes #Pistorius case step further 8/8


Not sure why some media reports claim #VanBreda SCA case means no live streaming of trial - although appeal upheld, Desai J now decides 1/
SCA : Judgment endorses firm default position of live streaming everything. Will be for #VanBreda 2 motivate for no live streaming

https://twitter.com/Dariomilo

 

[Tortoise]

Worth reading

https://www.ensafrica.com/news/SCA-...reda-trial?Id=2673&STitle=ENSafrica newsflash

 

[JudgeJudi]

If you’re as confused as I was about the fact that HvB won the appeal, despite the fact that it’s going back to Judge Desai to make a ruling on the livestreaming, hopefully this will explain:

“The biggest winner in an appeal brought by murder accused Henri van Breda - who was challenging Media24's application to livestream his trial – is the media and the public”.

Legal experts explained that the ruling was a draw between Van Breda and Media24.

Although the SCA set aside the High Court’s decision which states that during the sitting of the murder trial– Media24 is permitted to install two video cameras to record and or broadcast the proceedings with certain guidelines – legal experts believe this is not a victory for Van Breda.

"It is kind of a draw between Van Breda and Media24," News24’s lawyer Willem de Klerk said.

"He [Van Breda] did not win his battle. The SCA said the blanket ban was not the way to go," De Klerk said.

He said the media had not lost their battle to livestream the trial proceedings, but the SCA had referred the matter back to the trial court to decide.

Read more in the article.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/p2-van-breda-trial-media-ruling-who-were-the-winners-20170622

 

[Interested Bystander]

I thought the SCA might not want it televised because it was half over, but obviously they were looking at this as a landmark case for future trials. I really hope Desai sticks with his original ruling. I have a bad case of schadenfreude when it comes to HvB.

I agree it looks very promising for other cases in SA that are waiting in the wings.

 

[Estelle]

Thanks for the translation.

I'd say the chances of her getting her memory back in the next 8 weeks are zero. It's now been close to 2 1/2 years and there hasn't been one word said or even hinted at that she's recovered it.

Even if Marli has recovered or will recover her memory, she may not tell anyone as she would not want Henri to know in case of reprisals. Also she may not want to be a witness or reveal what she saw.

 

[Mette]

Even if Marli has recovered or will recover her memory, she may not tell anyone as she would not want Henri to know in case of reprisals. Also she may not want to be a witness or reveal what she saw.

I believe that HvB has not been allowed unsupervised access to his sister since the murders. If this is indeed the case, I think there is some justifiable fear there.

 

[Tortoise]

Attention. Only one week's holiday left. Court is back on Monday August 7th, running until August 24th.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Woohoo! Thank you Tortoise.