South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

[possumheart]

Seizures can be brought on by electronic devices like screens. He was playing games on his phone, after watching a movie, he could have been wound up

 

[possumheart]

[FONT=&amp]
http://www.jailmedicine.com/pseudoseizures-the-right-approach/
[/FONT]

Belle Gibson is a perfect example

 

[Bohemian]

Oh wow, a friend of mine had one of those. Unfortunately we stilll lost him

I’m sorry for the loss of your friend, Poss x

 

[Interested Bystander]

JME is slightly different from simple Petit Mal (which is included under JME symptoms) but unless witnessed or an EEG is conducted during a fit (and if I am remembering correctly) the only way to diagnose epilepsy is by witnessing a seizure. With Petit Mal this can be very difficult because neither the patient or the onlooker is necessarily aware there is anything odd happening. I am unaware that JME can cause unconsciousness but he is probably going to claim that he fell down the stairs during the seizure and the bang on his head caused his unconsciousness and consequentially the 3 hour gap between the evil deed and him calling the emergency services.

Surely his medical records have been perused prior to the trial. If there was a past history of "fits" it will have been noted. Botha seems to be saying there is a history. I suspect it is no more than HvB having said "this has happened before".

Malingering with a capital M springs to mind. He has picked the one "illness" it will be difficult to prove or disprove. Not surprising felons use it as an excuse whilst in prison.

https://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/tests-epilepsy#.Wgl90Fu0NR1

 

[Interested Bystander]

Desai, as well as Botha, concerned about how unwell HvB looks!! Another dirty trick? I'm giving up on this trial.

A bit of talcum powder rubbed into his face and one of his hang dog expressions will suffice.

I don't want to belittle true epilepsy sufferers. It can be a very nasty disease at its worst can cause death.

However, this guy is a compulsive liar and it is hard to believe anything he says.

 

[Tortoise]

A bit of talcum powder rubbed into his face and one of his hang dog expressions will suffice.

I don't want to belittle true epilepsy sufferers. It can be a very nasty disease at its worst can cause death.

However, this guy is a compulsive liar and it is hard to believe anything he says.

Yes. One only needs to look at the date it happened. The end of his case. What timing, in 23 years.

 

[Tortoise]

It's easy to reel off the words 2 hours 40 minutes, without really thinking about how long that is. It's a whole morning in court. And it's utter B**lox.

 

[bleuboy]

It's easy to reel off the words 2 hours 40 minutes, without really thinking about how long that is. It's a whole morning in court. And it's utter B**lox.

I thought we had seen all the possible stunts that could be played in this trial. It would be so easy to stop following this case but for the fact that I want to see that smug cocky look wiped off his face. My hubby is sick of hearing me ranting on about it lol... He better be found built or I will be devastated.
I still can't fathom that he has been free all this time and even managed to get a new girlfriend. I know you are innocent until proven guilty but I would be thinking WHAT IF HE DID MURDER HIS FAMILY WITH AN AXE if I were her.
Thankyou again for the tweets/updates xxxxx

 

[chinacat67]

O. M. G. [emoji37]

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Tortoise]

Judge Desai’s closing question provided a clue where Van Breda is heading.

“One thing that bothers me that I can’t understand When you saw the intruder attacking Rudi and then your father came in (he) could've gone around the bed (to the right-hand side) and tried to disarm the intruder”

“Correct.”

“He didn’t do that,” continued Judge Desai. “He went the other way (straight from the door to the left hand side of the bed) and fell over Rudi.”

“Well he went straight at the guy,” said Van Breda. “No, no, he tried to protect Rudi.”

https://www.iol.co.za/weekend-argus/van-breda-trial-big-questions-left-hanging-11960763

I think Martin's actions, and absence of defence injuries, will be one of the major pieces of evidence that will see him convicted - there are many others of course, like the rolled up duvet, the absence of spatter on his body, the adjustment to his evening timeline, not mentioning Rudi being alive to the dispatcher, and the self-inflicted wounds. If this had been an intruder hacking Rudi with an axe, with the lights on, Martin would not have been taken by surprise as he was.

And as Galloway said -

“This attacker you speak of didn’t need to find his victims. They all approached him.

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...secutor-highlights-van-bredas-contradictions/

He is deluded if he thinks epilepsy will help him.

 

[Estelle]

How long can myoclonic seizures last for?

These seizures will generally last 1 to 3 minutes. If a tonic-clonic seizure lasts longer than 5 minutes requires medical attention. A seizure that lasts longer than 10 minutes, or three seizures without a normal period in between indicates a dangerous condition called convulsive status epilepticus.May 2, 2017

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...ome..69i57.10541j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://www.iol.co.za/weekend-argus/van-breda-trial-big-questions-left-hanging-11960763

I think Martin's actions, and absence of defence injuries, will be one of the major pieces of evidence that will see him convicted - there are many others of course, like the rolled up duvet, the absence of spatter on his body, the adjustment to his evening timeline, not mentioning Rudi being alive to the dispatcher, and the self-inflicted wounds. If this had been an intruder hacking Rudi with an axe, with the lights on, Martin would not have been taken by surprise as he was.

And as Galloway said -



https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...secutor-highlights-van-bredas-contradictions/

He is deluded if he thinks epilepsy will help him. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Yep. I think if he was poorly in any way he probably had a severe panic attack - which, quite frankly, he deserves. I wonder if the docs who saw him had anything at all (other than his story) to work with. I will eat my words if they have.

There is an 'illness' referred to as Psychogenic (PNES) non-epileptic seizures which is caused by stress - perhaps he managed to induce one of those!

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1184694-overview

I am afraid I am very cynical when it comes to this guy who has lied so readily all the way through his testimony.

 

[Tortoise]

At least I am getting a sense that he does know the court isn't buying his story. Giving evidence at the end of his case and then coming up with this little surprise.

I am cynical too IB, and I don't believe it. I think he's read the reports and social media, and a diagnosis of epilepsy on the last day of his case is as far fetched as his version. Especially springing back into his suit for court today, huddling with his team as if he's holding the ace card now. He's as manipulative as they come. But I'm not worried because it doesn't affect the evidence of the axe murders and Desai is nobody's fool. This is much longer than a 20 year sentence on the cards, perhaps whole life who knows, and being as he is in complete denial of how anyone would disbelieve him, given his grandiose airs and how various members of his family have supported and believed him, I feel he won't take it well and he will go down with a right old drama. We might even be treated to a shaking fit on the floor. Someone in my extended family used to do those, and she has been diagnosed with BPD.

 

[Tortoise]

 

[Tortoise]

Look how animated they all are.

:sick:

 

[Bohemian]

Ugh! *spits out mouthful of coffee*

 

[Estelle]

My mother who died only two years ago at the age of 98yo, developed petit mal seizures in her 50s so late onset. Her seizures lasted from a few minutes to about 20 minutes. Of course, she was never aware that she had them and even often denied that she had them. She did not let them affect her life very much. She drove a car until she was 90yo.

So it seems, if he is telling the truth, that HvB will claim he had a seizure which made him fall down the stairs and as someone else said, he will claim he hit his head and that led to his being unconscious.

HvB should be avoiding alcohol as it can bring on seizures. My mother's seizures seemed to be brought on by negative emotions including anxiety. I think they were really psychogenic seizures.

I think the timing of all this is suspicious as if HvB and Botha planned it. But it is no excuse for the murders. Is it just to garner sympathy from the Judge or special privileges in prison? It looks like a game plan to me. If HvB had had these seizures in the past, why didn't he tell the court before this. He did not even see a doctor after the day of the murders to find out why he was unconscious for such a long period of time

 

[L2L]

My mother who died only two years ago at the age of 98yo, developed petit mal seizures in her 50s so late onset. Her seizures lasted from a few minutes to about 20 minutes. Of course, she was never aware that she had them and even often denied that she had them. She did not let them affect her life very much. She drove a car until she was 90yo.

So it seems, if he is telling the truth, that HvB will claim he had a seizure which made him fall down the stairs and as someone else said, he will claim he hit his head and that led to his being unconscious.

HvB should be avoiding alcohol as it can bring on seizures. My mother's seizures seemed to be brought on by negative emotions including anxiety. I think they were really psychogenic seizures.

I think the timing of all this is suspicious as if HvB and Botha planned it. But it is no excuse for the murders. Is it just to garner sympathy from the Judge or special privileges in prison? It looks like a game plan to me. If HvB had had these seizures in the past, why didn't he tell the court before this. He did not even see a doctor after the day of the murders to find out why he was unconscious for such a long period of time

Sorry to hear of your mother's death, Estelle, but what a wonderfully long life she had despite petit mal seizures. As for HvB having seizures in the past, why didn't he admit to them when Galloway asked if he'd ever blacked out before? Gosh, I hope this doesn't influence Desai in any way at all. Down, down he goes regardless of this last minute despicably dishonest ploy from him and Botha.

 

[Bohemian]

My mother who died only two years ago at the age of 98yo, developed petit mal seizures in her 50s so late onset. Her seizures lasted from a few minutes to about 20 minutes. Of course, she was never aware that she had them and even often denied that she had them. She did not let them affect her life very much. She drove a car until she was 90yo.

So it seems, if he is telling the truth, that HvB will claim he had a seizure which made him fall down the stairs and as someone else said, he will claim he hit his head and that led to his being unconscious.

HvB should be avoiding alcohol as it can bring on seizures. My mother's seizures seemed to be brought on by negative emotions including anxiety. I think they were really psychogenic seizures.

I think the timing of all this is suspicious as if HvB and Botha planned it. But it is no excuse for the murders. Is it just to garner sympathy from the Judge or special privileges in prison? It looks like a game plan to me. If HvB had had these seizures in the past, why didn't he tell the court before this. He did not even see a doctor after the day of the murders to find out why he was unconscious for such a long period of time

I’m sorry for the loss of your Mum, Estelle x

 

[JudgeJudi]

No sign of Dr Elspeth Burke, the psychologist expected to testify as a witness in Henri #VanBreda's defence. Court starts shortly.

Adv Botha says defence has consulted with neurologist Dr Butler, but consultations are still underway. Refers to case law which says he may call him as a witness. Adv Galloway has told him she will not object.

Judge Desai says he wants to complete the #VanBreda case this week. Adv Botha wants to adjourn until Monday for reports and consultations. He says they will finish with both witnesses within a day, at most 2.

Adv Botha asks for matter to be adjourned until next Monday, 27 November. Also
allows Galloway to deal with consultations. Desai suggests this coming Monday, saying: "I want to get on with my life". So do I, replies Adv Botha.

Judge Desai says Dr Butler is an expert witness and if his evidence is significant, State may want to consult another witness. Adv Galloway says she will deal with this before November 27.

Dr Butler only has 1 paragraph relevant to 2h40m #VaBreda can't remember. Adv Botha says he has asked the expert to elaborate on this. Judge Desai says trial now being unduly prolonged. Accepts explanation that witness is unexpected and may be relevant; in interest of justice.

Case adjourned until November 27. Judge Desai says he wants the case completed by the end of the month.

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