Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[RickshawFan]

According to https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods/oats#nutrients - "Oats are a good source of quality protein at 11–17% of dry weight, which is higher than most other grains"

The operative words there seem to be "which is higher than most other grains." AFAIK grains (including oats) aren't very protein-rich and have to be supplemented by other food groups to make the protein bio-available (or whatever the term is).

 

[10ofRods]

The operative words there seem to be "which is higher than most other grains." AFAIK grains (including oats) aren't very protein-rich and have to be supplemented by other food groups to make the protein bio-available (or whatever the term is).

Yep. And we need all the amino acids to be covered in our protein consumption (oats are only high in 1-2 amino acids, one would need protein powder or something else if doing this over a period of days).

People get used to protein malnourishment (calories from carbs will curb hunger, which is what people notice - they don't have a cue that their brain functions, especially decision-making and memory retrieval are low).

While a person can get 10 or more amino acids from most animal protein products, it takes a specific combination of plants to get that many...there are two plants when combined that give the 12 essential amino acids: corn and beans.

Germinated oats have a pretty good amino acid profile (which is why they are used in wheat-free breads, etc) but just whole oats that have been soaked, not so much available:

Oat Protein - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

 

[Grouse]

The operative words there seem to be "which is higher than most other grains." AFAIK grains (including oats) aren't very protein-rich and have to be supplemented by other food groups to make the protein bio-available (or whatever the term is).

The context of my post was it was a response to a post saying oats were low protein, so I checked on healthline.com and it said they are "a good source of quality protein."

But I'm not disagreeing with your general points, as you pointed out earlier to sustain hiking needs a lot of calories for energy, it's not all about protein. The description of ED's rations, for what turned out to be almost a 24 hour trip, was ridiculous and I bet she needed that jacket potato ETA - or your dried thanksgiving meal !

 

[Grouse]

I have been thinking about the request for fruit. With the added information provided by LA that Esther did not have a lot of food, I wonder if she gets sugar lows. I get them now and then. I am not diabetic. I just get busy and will forget to eat. My doctor told me to eat a piece of fruit because it works fast. He did lecture me on forgetting to eat and said I still need to eat a regular meal but the fruit will help while I prepare food. I just find it odd to use the “do you have a piece of fruit” as an ice breaker. How about “hello, how is your hike going?” Nothing negative on DC, but maybe he did not want to say Esther does not take enough food because people would think negatively of her? And it would contradict that she was always prepared. When something like this happens I am sure the first instinct is to protect the missing person (a loved one) from negative information. MOO. Just my thoughts and ramblings! MOO!

I get that as well occasionally and also not diabetic. The worst time for me is actually around 3-5PM if I haven't eaten for a while. A handful of peanuts works best for me or maybe a banana, but anything more sugary than that makes it worse. I'd always carry something on a hike to cover me for that if it happened.

 

[otto]

I have been thinking about the request for fruit. With the added information provided by LA that Esther did not have a lot of food, I wonder if she gets sugar lows. I get them now and then. I am not diabetic. I just get busy and will forget to eat. My doctor told me to eat a piece of fruit because it works fast. He did lecture me on forgetting to eat and said I still need to eat a regular meal but the fruit will help while I prepare food. I just find it odd to use the “do you have a piece of fruit” as an ice breaker. How about “hello, how is your hike going?” Nothing negative on DC, but maybe he did not want to say Esther does not take enough food because people would think negatively of her? And it would contradict that she was always prepared. When something like this happens I am sure the first instinct is to protect the missing person (a loved one) from negative information. MOO. Just my thoughts and ramblings! MOO!

I completely agree that victims are often portrayed in the best light even though factual information often helps determine what happened. In this case, we have ambiguity regarding her state of mind and whether she was properly prepared for a 3 day solo hike. Specifically, a witness has come forward to report that Esther was unsure about the future of her relationship, and two witnesses have come forward regarding Esther asking for, or needing, food. Witness reports contradict partner reports.

 

[10ofRods]

I also do not believe that a fall off the peak would necessarily leave clues on the scree, nor would every inch of that slope be examined closely for small amounts of blood. I think if she did go off the peak, she would have bounced and slid, gathering speed, and while it's highly unusual, she could have ended up in that deep, dark lake. Locals seem to think it's possible.

The only other explanation is the hitchhiking-gone-wrong (and it could have gone wrong in stages). Perhaps Esther got into a car that didn't actually head back to where her camper van was, and realizing that, got out and walked again or tried to hitchhike (in which case, she could be almost anywhere - but not where anyone would expect to find her). She could have run into the wrong person or tried a shortcut to get back to warmth and food and safety.

I think she considered it normal to hike without much food, though, and without firm plans on transportation.

 

[fridaybaker]

I completely agree that victims are often portrayed in the best light even though factual information often helps determine what happened. In this case, we have ambiguity regarding her state of mind and whether she was properly prepared for a 3 day solo hike. Specifically, a witness has come forward to report that Esther was unsure about the future of her relationship, and two witnesses have come forward regarding Esther asking for, or needing, food. Witness reports contradict partner reports.

Interesting. I think another example of this is what I mentioned earlier. DC cites as a reason for a high probability of kidnapping/foul play that ED was well within her expertise level and that there were few places where one could have an accident (aside from the summit peak itself, apparently.) The maps and photos that I've seen here, as well as local "testimony", bear a different story though; namely that a serious accident wouldn't be at all improbable, even given her "level of expertise/preperation".

 

[otto]

I also do not believe that a fall off the peak would necessarily leave clues on the scree, nor would every inch of that slope be examined closely for small amounts of blood. I think if she did go off the peak, she would have bounced and slid, gathering speed, and while it's highly unusual, she could have ended up in that deep, dark lake. Locals seem to think it's possible.

The only other explanation is the hitchhiking-gone-wrong (and it could have gone wrong in stages). Perhaps Esther got into a car that didn't actually head back to where her camper van was, and realizing that, got out and walked again or tried to hitchhike (in which case, she could be almost anywhere - but not where anyone would expect to find her). She could have run into the wrong person or tried a shortcut to get back to warmth and food and safety.

I think she considered it normal to hike without much food, though, and without firm plans on transportation.

The locals spoke about people toppling down the mountain, landing in the lake and being discovered in the Spring after the ice melts.

Esther was alive near the summit and she stated that she was heading to the refuge. Authorities have stated that there's no evidence that she arrived at the refuge. I suspect that is based on absence of sign-in, absence of payment and absence that someone was recently at the refuge. According to the bare facts that are known, she vanished between the summit and the refuge.

A hitchhiking-kidnapping scenario requires a lot of new facts that we don't have, such as being less than forthcoming regarding her trip plan, bypassing the refuge, mountain climbing at night, hoping there's a winter-room and then choosing to sleep in the open, arriving at the closed Hospice de France after dark, hitch hiking alone with strangers at night - and so on. There's no evidence that this is a likely scenario.

 

[stmarysmead]

The local people are dispassionate objective observers. They have no investment in the outcome of this tragedy. They are simply recounting what they know as residents of the area.

Dan is an impacted victim of this disappearance. This is the woman he loves. Big difference.

Thanks SO much to all of you who posted pictures. They present quite a different perspective of the dangers of Esther’s route than Dan’s description.

 

[RedHaus]

I noticed on some of the posts on SM on the trips with Dan they seemed to be big on what looked like lettuce leaves, often in a sandwich.

@Grouse, FWIW, here is a pic of some sort of lettuce leaves from a YouTube video of ED / DC about to eat dinner at an apartment they leased for the night (29/8/2020)



Source of image: YouTube video from Dan and Esther 29/8/2020

 

[fridaybaker]

@Grouse, FWIW, here is a pic of some sort of lettuce leaves from a YouTube video of ED / DC about to eat dinner at an apartment they leased for the night (29/8/2020)

View attachment 279958

Source of image: YouTube video from Dan and Esther 29/8/2020

Wonder what's in the pot? Are those garlic cloves in the bowls?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Wonder what's in the pot? Are those garlic cloves in the bowls?

Looks like gnocchi to me, all v normal IMO.

 

[fridaybaker]

Looks like gnocchi to me, all v normal IMO.

Not a criticism, just look like garlic cloves to me. I've never seen anyone eat gnocchi sans a speck of saucing or other "accoutrements" visible. I would have thought they'd maybe splurge on a more, well "flavorful" meal during a period of respite, so wondering what's in that pot!

 

[Grouse]

@Grouse, FWIW, here is a pic of some sort of lettuce leaves from a YouTube video of ED / DC about to eat dinner at an apartment they leased for the night (29/8/2020)
<snipped>

That looks pretty solid food to me. I gave up looking for the lettuce sandwiches but here is how Esther does her oats (these ones with with chia seeds, raisins and cinnamon ) --> https://www.instagram.com/p/B2LkIyBBzOB/

 

[sundaaaay]

I took a snip of that FatMap 3-D image @Ruthbullock provided and boy, it is such a great resource to really see the trail systems in that area. So much so I now realize for the first time that another point of high risk for falling into Baum de Vanesque could be the trail that goes towards Port de Glere from the Refuge de Vanesque, with pic de Sujust on the way (around the corner). I have posted that snip here with red arrows depicting the two steep fall zones that are readily apparent.

And... if ED decided perhaps on 22/11 at dusk to skip the Refuge de Vanesque (since no trace of her apparently) and take a 'short cut' from her loop towards Port de Glere to shorten her excursion (due to all the emotional and physical reasons we've been considering), that could put her on that steep section above the lake... at dusk...
View attachment 279946
Image source: FATMAP | Discover a world of adventure...

This is much more likely in my opinion. If she fell in the lake she more likely took this path!

 

[sundaaaay]

The locals spoke about people toppling down the mountain, landing in the lake and being discovered in the Spring after the ice melts.

Esther was alive near the summit and she stated that she was heading to the refuge. Authorities have stated that there's no evidence that she arrived at the refuge. I suspect that is based on absence of sign-in, absence of payment and absence that someone was recently at the refuge. According to the bare facts that are known, she vanished between the summit and the refuge.

A hitchhiking-kidnapping scenario requires a lot of new facts that we don't have, such as being less than forthcoming regarding her trip plan, bypassing the refuge, mountain climbing at night, hoping there's a winter-room and then choosing to sleep in the open, arriving at the closed Hospice de France after dark, hitch hiking alone with strangers at night - and so on. There's no evidence that this is a likely scenario.

Also may I add, several people who met and passed ED remembered her, if she had continued walking she likely would have passed more people at some point yet nobody else has come forward since the Olympic skier. Plus the last place she had phone signal was at that point.So an accident in that valley probably is the most likely scenario in my opinion and seeing as the bottom of the pic was searched the only other answer I see is the lake. But the question is how, was it deliberate or accidental

 

[sundaaaay]

You can’t say they’re not healthy eaters, if she went up the mountain with a McDonald’s take away you’d all be complaining she died of a heart attack

 

[RickshawFan]

Interesting. I think another example of this is what I mentioned earlier. DC cites as a reason for a high probability of kidnapping/foul play that ED was well within her expertise level and that there were few places where one could have an accident (aside from the summit peak itself, apparently.) The maps and photos that I've seen here, as well as local "testimony", bear a different story though; namely that a serious accident wouldn't be at all improbable, even given her "level of expertise/preperation".

I very much agree unfortunately. To add to that here...
What the dossier also loudly suppresses is the FACT that it was November (and not July), the trip was solo, and, because of COVID, there was absolutely no one around to be helpful in case of an accident. IMO, this is not within anyone's "expertise level". A risk-tolerant individual might attempt and enjoy a trip like that, but nothing can prepare you for it.
And, I will insist, not taking adequate nutrition is a HUGE red flag that this person did not have the expertise needed for this hike even if it had been June and there was no COVID.

If the hiker ED met on a previous trip had potatoes and tuna plus some extra just in case (in this instance ED evidently needed it), well, that's expertise. That hiker would be around the standard 2 lbs per person of food per day if you extrapolated that meal, and it's a great choice of items, filling, appropriate for the situation, and nutrient-rich. On a budget, no less. That's what expertise looks like.

Maybe I sound like a wet blanket, but every detail that gets added to this story makes me more alarmed.

 

[RickshawFan]

You can’t say they’re not healthy eaters, if she went up the mountain with a McDonald’s take away you’d all be complaining she died of a heart attack

Being real...McDonalds wouldn't be my choice most of the time, 'cos it might give me indigestion, but it would fuel you quite well on a hike. I'd skip the French fries, though. And a snack a couple of hours later—maybe peanut butter on dried apple—would be a healthy follow up.
By way of example, while ultra-distance hiking I showed up once at a Hardees/Carls Junior and ordered the biggest hamburger they had. The gal behind the counter said, "Are you sure? That's REALLY BIG." I said, "Yep, totally." I scarfed it in about 2 minutes and considered ordering another.... But sometimes you can have too much of a good thing to be comfortable "making miles". Heart attacks be blowed, though: I never even thought of that.
Take out a piece of pumpkin pie for later. Back on the trail.
By dinner, I'd want 2 full servings of my whole "Thanksgiving dinner".
I've still only mentioned 2/3 of the calories I ate that day. So, yep, no problem with the McDonalds (the guys could eat, like, 5 of those at a sitting).
Because ED's body had already been primed by an extensive summer hike, it would have been close to this kind of food-crazed mode. And an organism like that needs a LOT of food to function, way more than you'd eat at home. This might well be why she had "cravings." It's possible she misidentified them as "lack of control", when the food was absolutely necessary for what she was doing.

 

[RickshawFan]

@Grouse, FWIW, here is a pic of some sort of lettuce leaves from a YouTube video of ED / DC about to eat dinner at an apartment they leased for the night (29/8/2020)

View attachment 279958

Source of image: YouTube video from Dan and Esther 29/8/2020

I'm thinking Kale or Collard Greens. The pasta balls look like Gnocchi.