Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[PeggyHenry]

Duplicate post.. sorry

 

[PeggyHenry]

The meal ED and DC shared, as shown in the photograph RedHaus gave us upthread, is alarmingly different from what Esther took as provisions when hiking and overnighting with LA – dried oats, a red pepper and a small lettuce.

LA states "We left on the afternoon of November 12 and returned the following day around midday."
So Esther's meagre rations were for a dinner and a breakfast. Was this from lack of funds?

Ten days later, when she asked the skier for "fruit, or something fresh" and received nothing, she reportedly disappeared less than an hour later, just after her last (known) communication with DC.

It could be she simply had no money left to have purchased any food at all for her last known hiking day.

We know from what she's told us she struggled with her inner world. Her outer world perhaps distressed her also, with Covid and Brexit and DC wanting to end their nomadic lifestyle.

She may have had no means to sustain herself at all, and no clear way to escape what might have seemed to be insurmountable predicaments for her tender, undernourished self. No food, no gas for the camper. No way out. Unless she asked DC for help, which she may not have been able to do. But she has other family she could surely confide in and ask for help, if she needed it – her mum, her dad, and her aunt.

It would be interesting to know how finances were managed whilst hiking. When we see CCTV of Esther in the shop she is only buying the chia seeds. I would have imagined a trip to the shop would be to stock up on a few provisions for the next hike etc. She buys only one item and is paying attention to the price. It does indicate the possibility that Esther had limited finance and was stretching it out.
Perhaps she only carried cash .. although I imagine a debit/ credit card was needed and kept somewhere. When she drove off in her camper van she would have needed fuel at some stage. Her budget may have been very low. Perhaps she could not access funds.
Having said that, maybe she lives very frugally regardless of where she is. Going back to the cctv .. she doesn’t appear happy and cheerful but gives the appearance of being concerned about her her purchase so I’m guessing money was a concern at that point in time. JMO

 

[Hatty]

It would be interesting to know how finances were managed whilst hiking. When we see CCTV of Esther in the shop she is only buying the chia seeds. I would have imagined a trip to the shop would be to stock up on a few provisions for the next hike etc. She buys only one item and is paying attention to the price. It does indicate the possibility that Esther had limited finance and was stretching it out.
Perhaps she only carried cash .. although I imagine a debit/ credit card was needed and kept somewhere. When she drove off in her camper van she would have needed fuel at some stage. Her budget may have been very low. Perhaps she could not access funds.
Having said that, maybe she lives very frugally regardless of where she is. Going back to the cctv .. she doesn’t appear happy and cheerful but gives the appearance of being concerned about her her purchase so I’m guessing money was a concern at that point in time. JMO

Could be - but Chia seeds are usually actually pretty expensive (unless they’re cheap in Spain) so IMO if money was really an issue, she wouldn’t have even considered buying them at all. The Couple both look slim but fit and healthy and they must have had reasonable money coming in from renting their house. Youdon’t need much to live on when travelling like that and they’ve done and kept healthy for six years. I have travelling friends who end up with money left over every month from renting their home out!

Someone said she looked sad, but what are you meant to look like when you’re grocery shopping? I’m usually thinking about my list and where the hell on the shelf the next thing on it is, so I don’t go about with a big grin on my face.

ED may not have been eating enough but how exactly has that contributed to her disappearance?

Are we saying that she fell into a lake due to lack of food? Or staggered off somewhere due to weakness and dehydration? I suppose it’s possible if her trip extended beyond 22nd November, but otherwise, if she was on the right track her body would (hopefully) have been found if she’d succumbed due to lack of nutrition - UNLESS she fell in a lake.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

We have two sources explaining why ED asked for fruit. One in the dossier, and one ED herself in the bike ride vid she made.

Both say she did this as a kind of ice breaker (paraphrasing) and to reassure her that kindness is out there.

 

[jsoap]

Just for reference, here is a 3d plot of the route to Port de la Glere through the lakes.

 

[stmarysmead]

Yes indeed.I’ve mentioned the “being hit by a car” possibility up thread and wonder if resources will allow a search of the area surrounding the road back to the camper van to be undertaken. To our knowledge this hasn’t been done but the police are of course in possession of masses more information and will have their reasons.

ED’s comment of “I hope the Refuge has a winter room” certainly suggests the idea of bivouacing/camping wasn’t appealing to her. If the Refuge winter room didn’t appeal to her either, then she may well have decided to press onwards on her route or down to the road.

Are some of the refuges closed or locked during the winter season? What did Esther mean when she asked “I hope the Refuge has a Winter Room.” Was she questioning whether she could get inside?

 

[stmarysmead]

We have two sources explaining why ED asked for fruit. One in the dossier, and one ED herself in the bike ride vid she made.

Both say she did this as a kind of ice breaker (paraphrasing) and to reassure her that kindness is out there.

IMO theres a real risk in this kind of magical thinking, particularly when in extreme circumstances, like trekking in a mountainous wilderness area during a pandemic.

Suppose you had to drive thru miles of desert...would you fill your tank or rely on the kindness of encountering a stranger who would stop on a isolated desert road and give you enough gas to carry on?

IMO Esther seems to have a theory...that rather than providing for herself...the kindness of strangers will always come to her rescue. It seems to make the world seem like a better place to her. But wouldn’t that also require that sometimes the Receiver be in a position to be the Giver instead... and have enough to share?

On the last day that she made contact, we know that her request for food was unsuccessful. Hopefully she still had enough with her to sustain her for several more days. Wasn’t she only half way through this trek?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t this the second day of this trek? And wasn’t she planning at least two or three more days...not returning to Dan until the 25th?

 

[sundaaaay]

Just for reference, here is a 3d plot of the route to Port de la Glere through the lakes.

This lesser known route really interests me, because I think it’s much easier to fall into the biggest lake from this path and it does fit with the little information we know. We know she was headed to Port de Glere and this path does lead there. Her supposed route around the wooded area Chemin de l'Impératrice may never have been her plan and also if she heard gunshots from hunters, she may have decided to stay higher in the mountains where we know she liked to be the most. So I wonder did she possibly hike up that path after passing the refuge (she’s a fast walker) deciding to continue walking in the dark and deciding to biouvac in the next valley or she had stayed at the refuge or camped beside it and left the next morning.

Either way if she had walked there at dusk or dawn, at those temperatures, it could have had icy patches and been really slippery.

 

[sundaaaay]

Just for reference, here is a 3d plot of the route to Port de la Glere through the lakes.

Also if one continues along this route, they pass another large lake and then seem to descend a very steep section. I find this route seems to be a lot more challenging and I wish we know more about it.

 

[sundaaaay]

Also if one continues along this route, they pass another large lake and then seem to descend a very steep section. I find this route seems to be a lot more challenging and I wish we know more about it.

Of this steep descent, someone on a blog mentiones (whilst climbing in the opposite direction that ED would have)...

The climb to the lake is very, very rough until the lock from where we discover the lake. The climb to the top that you can clearly see on the other side of the lake is obvious although totally off trail.

Pic de la Montagnette 2558m - Monts et Merveilles

 

[Megnut]

We see people press their limits all the time, taking on all manner of challenge. But the vehicle is the body and the body is a machine. One miscalculation and potassium levels shift... if Esther was pushing through HUNGER, she may have been in peril without even realizing the severity of it. You run out of CELLULAR fuel at the wrongest point of your journey, with a back heavy boulder strapped to your body, gravity will take over.

The other hikers, who Esther passed on her way up, the ones she asked for fruit, I wish Esther had left her adventure for another day and hiked back with them.

When she reached the peak, she may have been running on empty... with tragic results.

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

We have two sources explaining why ED asked for fruit. One in the dossier, and one ED herself in the bike ride vid she made.

Both say she did this as a kind of ice breaker (paraphrasing) and to reassure her that kindness is out there.

To my way of thinking this is a "Pole 2" indicator, no matter how it is couched. Coupled with the strange combination of wanting to hike solo and at the same time soliciting contact from others by asking them for food, it tests the universe to support you.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

IMO theres a real risk in this kind of magical thinking, particularly when in extreme circumstances, like trekking in a mountainous wilderness area during a pandemic.

Suppose you had to drive thru miles of desert...would you fill your tank or rely on the kindness of encountering a stranger who would stop on a isolated desert road and give you enough gas to carry on?

IMO Esther seems to have a theory...that rather than providing for herself...the kindness of strangers will always come to her rescue. It seems to make the world seem like a better place to her. But wouldn’t that also require that sometimes the Receiver be in a position to be the Giver instead... and have enough to share?

On the last day that she made contact, we know that her request for food was unsuccessful. Hopefully she still had enough with her to sustain her for several more days. Wasn’t she only half way through this trek?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t this the second day of this trek? And wasn’t she planning at least two or three more days...not returning to Dan until the 25th?

I think the point is, she didnt ask because she was hungry or needed food. She had another intention.

JMO

 

[PeggyHenry]

Could be - but Chia seeds are usually actually pretty expensive (unless they’re cheap in Spain) so IMO if money was really an issue, she wouldn’t have even considered buying them at all. The Couple both look slim but fit and healthy and they must have had reasonable money coming in from renting their house. Youdon’t need much to live on when travelling like that and they’ve done and kept healthy for six years. I have travelling friends who end up with money left over every month from renting their home out!

Someone said she looked sad, but what are you meant to look like when you’re grocery shopping? I’m usually thinking about my list and where the hell on the shelf the next thing on it is, so I don’t go about with a big grin on my face.

ED may not have been eating enough but how exactly has that contributed to her disappearance?

Are we saying that she fell into a lake due to lack of food? Or staggered off somewhere due to weakness and dehydration? I suppose it’s possible if her trip extended beyond 22nd November, but otherwise, if she was on the right track her body would (hopefully) have been found if she’d succumbed due to lack of nutrition - UNLESS she fell in a lake.

Me too, grocery shopping is not designed to make you look cheerful!! We can't expect smiles in that scenario so judging that she is sad in that scenario is not going to be of much use. I suppose that 'not eating enough ' could have contributed to her disappearance if it left her physically weak? More prone to stumbling, low of mood, more vulnerable in terms of accepting help from strangers...

Also, Esther's body probably is used to running on less food. So my food requirements are probably far greater than hers - I have more for breakfast than Esther took on her overnight trip with Laura. She perhaps runs quite efficiently on a lighter but well thought out diet.

 

[Hatty]

Are some of the refuges closed or locked during the winter season? What did Esther mean when she asked “I hope the Refuge has a Winter Room.” Was she questioning whether she could get inside?

Yes it seems some are closed or have reduced facilities.
Again, she could have checked online so perhaps a bit of a lack of planning.

 

[patCee]

We see people press their limits all the time, taking on all manner of challenge. But the vehicle is the body and the body is a machine. One miscalculation and potassium levels shift.. if Esther was pushing through HUNGER, she may have been in peril without even realizing the severity of it. You run out of CELLULAR fuel at the wrongest point of your journey, with a back heavy boulder strapped to your body, gravity will take over.

You are right about potassium levels. A relative , a healthy eater, collapsed outside Tesco and was taken to hospital in an ambulance. Not vulnerable in a dangerous place, like a lake, thank goodness. Tests showed low potassium. She was advised to eat a banana every morning - as simple as that. She never collapsed again.
ED had been hiking for most of the past month using up many vital nutrients. We underestimate the importance of certain foods when a shortage can have dramatic results. We can think of various common vitamins/minerals etc where a simple shortage can have profound effects on our bodies, mood etc.

 

[Grouse]

Could be - but Chia seeds are usually actually pretty expensive (unless they’re cheap in Spain) so IMO if money was really an issue, she wouldn’t have even considered buying them at all. The Couple both look slim but fit and healthy and they must have had reasonable money coming in from renting their house. Youdon’t need much to live on when travelling like that and they’ve done and kept healthy for six years. I have travelling friends who end up with money left over every month from renting their home out!

Someone said she looked sad, but what are you meant to look like when you’re grocery shopping? I’m usually thinking about my list and where the hell on the shelf the next thing on it is, so I don’t go about with a big grin on my face.
<snipped for focus>

Your post echoes my thoughts exactly Hatty.

The thriftiness with money was there even before they embarked on the travelling life , and was bound to have become more of a thing since in order to sustain it - from --> About Us | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel

"Neither of us have ever really been particularly driven by material possessions, but we were both savers by nature and so anything spare went into repaying that mortgage. We also worked hard to earn extra where we could and began sacrificing holidays, meals out etc."​

And how could her mood possibly be gauged from some cctv images in which she is wearing a mask?

 

[Hexe]

The operative words there seem to be "which is higher than most other grains." AFAIK grains (including oats) aren't very protein-rich and have to be supplemented by other food groups to make the protein bio-available (or whatever the term is).

The bigger problem I have with the food Esther took with her is that t is extremely low on calories. Two bell peppers, one lettuce head and 200 g of the oatmeal has 850 calories. That's not even one fourth of the daily amount of calories she would need, and it uses most of the food she had.

 

[Hexe]

ED may not have been eating enough but how exactly has that contributed to her disappearance?

Are we saying that she fell into a lake due to lack of food? Or staggered off somewhere due to weakness and dehydration? I suppose it’s possible if her trip extended beyond 22nd November, but otherwise, if she was on the right track her body would (hopefully) have been found if she’d succumbed due to lack of nutrition - UNLESS she fell in a lake.

A malnutrition makes you unfocused, unable to think clearly and therefore it increases very much the risk of an accident. Now, Esther was hiking in November, high up in the mountains,so keeping herself warm was very important issue. If you are perpetually low on calories, without enough of carbohydrates or fats for your body to burn and get the energy, your body is unable to produce heat, so you are perpetually cold, no matter how many layers of clothing you wrap yourself into. This increases very much a risk of hypothermia. A person with developing hypothermia doesn't just collapse on a spot, they can walk in daze and confusion for kilometers before they succumb.

Last, but not least, lack of certain microeements, nutrients and vitamins can do weird things with your brain, up to triggering a full blast psychosis. That means Esther, having a warped thinking could have ventured pretty far away from the search area, or even hide somewhere, in the woods, caves or anywhere else, not knowing what she was doing, because she wasn't thinking straight anymore.

 

[Hexe]

Also, Esther's body probably is used to running on less food.

No. It doesn't work like that. You can't overpass your own physiology.