Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[stmarysmead]

If you haven’t read Esther’s Oct 20 account of their return home from their summer trekking, please do. It’s charming in her joyful exuberance and her obvious gratitude to all who picked them up as hitchhikers. But beyond the hitchhiking with strangers during a pandemic...there’s more insight into their eating habits.

She begins by mentioned her admiration for Dan and the physical effort it takes for him to manage his bowel disease in the wilderness. They are fatigues and weary. But, they leave that morning “on empty tummy’s.”

They decide to leave on a Sunday...so leaving hungry...is compounded by that fact that they keep finding shops closed....because it’s Sunday. They are exceedingly lucky in finding one ride after another. N0t so much luck though, in regard to food. Dan continually wants to stop to find food, but Esther puts her thumb out instead and viola...another ride. At one point they pass some open shops but pass them by.

Late in the day, they share a pack of peanuts someone gives them. They don’t eat till they get home, when another kind stranger gives them a box of food and they buy something fresh. They’ve been away for months, remember. What if they had returned after months away to a closed shop and no generous stranger? Traveling hungry on a Sunday...and depending on luck....

IMO, all of Esther’s charm and innocence, does not keep me from shaking my head about their cavalier attitude, their lack of foresight and planning. It is not IMO a role model for others. Imagine an impressionable young person, thinking they can depend on luck and the generosity of others, instead of self sufficiency and careful planning!

 

[Grouse]

The bigger problem I have with the food Esther took with her is that t is extremely low on calories. Two bell peppers, one lettuce head and 200 g of the oatmeal has 850 calories. That's not even one fourth of the daily amount of calories she would need, and it uses most of the food she had.

A slight correction Hexe, it was one pepper not two

I don't know how anyone go for 24 hours on that ration, never mind climb peaks . Not actually sure how much climbing they did that day "A short gentle adventure to a 2000m cabane under face of pic Aneto" Login • Instagram and Benasque is 1100m so possibly 900m of ascent.

A bit less than her previous "4 days of mini adventures... Each day approx 20km with 1500m uphill" Login • Instagram
but even so 900m would require some significant calories IMO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

A slight correction Hexe, it was one pepper not two

I don't know how anyone go for 24 hours on that ration, never mind climb peaks . Not actually sure how much climbing they did that day "A short gentle adventure to a 2000m cabane under face of pic Aneto" Login • Instagram and Benasque is 1100m so possibly 900m of ascent.

A bit less than her previous "4 days of mini adventures... Each day approx 20km with 1500m uphill" Login • Instagram
but even so 900m would require some significant calories IMO

Grouse, where is the source for the pepper and lettuce? Its driving me bonkers not finding it

 

[Grouse]

<snipped fro focus>
Dan continually wants to stop to find food, but Esther puts her thumb out instead and viola...another tide.

That's interesting I hadn't seen that. In light of the recent news on paltry rations it does seem like she is actively avoiding the calories. I haven't read that yet but I saw the short video they did on the return from that trip and I did get the impression he was a bit more stressed than she was about it.

 

[Grouse]

Grouse, where is the source for the pepper and lettuce? Its driving me bonkers not finding it

its here HK ->>> Missing hiker Esther Dingley had love life problems says witness as British police called in to help | Daily Mail Online

 

[fridaybaker]

I get dizzy even looking at that mountain lol. No way I'd go up there; I'd have settled in on a rock making tea and eating cookies while everyone else topped the Pic. I could look at those lakes for hours. At any rate, that's just different strokes for different folks, not a comment about whether or not to make the ascent.

Rickshaw, I was thinking along those lines today as well! Seeing what they seem to eat most of the time and some of that perilous terrain, I was thinking how I'd love to be eating a little feast all

If you haven’t read Esther’s Oct 20 account of their return home from their summer trekking, please do. It’s charming in her joyful exuberance and her obvious gratitude to all who picked them up as hitchhikers. But beyond the hitchhiking with strangers during a pandemic...there’s more insight into their eating habits.

She begins by mentioned her admiration for Dan and the physical effort it takes for him to manage his bowel disease in the wilderness. They are fatigues and weary. But, they leave that morning “on empty tummy’s.”

They decide to leave on a Sunday...so leaving hungry...is compounded by that fact that they keep finding shops closed....because it’s Sunday. They are exceedingly lucky in finding one ride after another. N0t so much luck though, in regard to food. Dan continually wants to stop to find food, but Esther puts her thumb out instead and viola...another ride. At one point they pass some open shops but pass them by.

Late in the day, they share a pack of peanuts someone gives them. They don’t eat till they get home, when another kind stranger gives them a box of food and they buy something fresh. They’ve been away for months, remember. What if they had returned after months away to a closed shop and no generous stranger? Traveling hungry on a Sunday...and depending on luck....

IMO, all of Esther’s charm and innocence, does not keep me from shaking my head about their cavalier attitude, their lack of foresight and planning. It is not IMO a role model for others. Imagine an impressionable young person, thinking they can depend on luck and the generosity of others, instead of self sufficiency and careful planning!

Of course, we can’t be 100 percent sure that this is an entirely accurate characterization of the day, but if she really did keep “pushing it” while Dan was very hungry and looking for food, it doesn’t sound very loving to me.

 

[beubeubeu]

Esther's body probably is used to running on less food. So my food requirements are probably far greater than hers - I have more for breakfast than Esther took on her overnight trip with Laura. She perhaps runs quite efficiently on a lighter but well thought out diet.

I wouldn't call her diet "well thought" by any stretch. And it doesn't really work like that with mountains and cold.
Yes, some people can run efficiently on pretty light and we'll thought diets if some factors: like stress, cold, tiredness and such are out of the picture.

Once i ended up in mountains, far away from people, not really knowing where I am, in freezing cold, snow, hungry and not really well dressed for that kind of weather. Long story but mostly unimportant. I walked, walked and walked, very slowly, it took me hours and I was fighting with myself to get another step.
When I was less than half of a mile from the place that I knew that i will be safe, finally warm and fed an emergency car stopped by and asked if I need some help because he miraculously noticed me and started asking how did i ended up there.
I got soooo scared! He was legit and I was almost sure of that but in my mind he was interrupting my way to safety by forcing me to stop and talk to him. I lied that I'm out there way shorter and just have a short night walk and basically have a house very nearby. I suddenly ran away into the dark woods with the most priority to lost him before he figures out that i lied and am barely conscious.
At that point in my exhausted, frozen mind it was the only logical thing to do.

 

[Rush4087]

After following this case from the very beginning and (still) considering every possible scenario, I am feeling more and more that ED's disappearance was likely due to suicide. There are numerous reasons for this (I think my list now exceeds thirty), but among them is the fact that she has not been found (I believe this could be because she did not want to be found), and that she was seemingly carrying insufficient provisions (I think this may have been because she was not expecting to need them). Very sad. Jmo

 

[ZaZara]

its here HK ->>> Missing hiker Esther Dingley had love life problems says witness as British police called in to help | Daily Mail Online

From the link:

Ms Adomaityte, who was born in Lithuania but is fluent in Spanish and knows the Pyrenees well, added: 'The one thing that did surprise me about Esther was how little food she took with her on the last hike we did together.

'We left on the afternoon of November 12 and returned the following day around midday.

'Esther only took dried oats, a red pepper and a small lettuce. I ended up sharing the food I'd taken for myself when we reached a refuge for the night called Refugio de Pescadores, which included a can of tuna and potatoes we heated up in the evening and an apple the following morning.

BBM

The oats, the pepper and the small lettuce were her rations for a trip from midday to midday.

If she had started on a full stomach after a lunch with lentils, rice, vegetables, nuts and olive oil, this might have supported her well through the afternoon. But a supper of lettuce and pepper is rather thin, even with oats. If she had the left-overs (rice, lentils, veggies) the next day for lunch after she returned from the trip, the overall calorie-count would not be that bad.

But this is all my imagination, we don't know what she ate before she left, nor what she ate after she returned.

Spain has wonderful food that isn't expensive and it will feed you well on a trip into the mountains. Things become more complicated when you want to go vegan, so perhaps go a little less vegan for the trip. The 'can of tuna' from the shared food appears to suggest that. Esther only mentions the potato btw perhaps she was keeping up appearances.

I hope ED took some cans of tuna salad with corn and beans on her solo trips. There is no need to tell all to your followers.

 

[RickshawFan]

Also, Esther's body probably is used to running on less food. So my food requirements are probably far greater than hers - I have more for breakfast than Esther took on her overnight trip with Laura. She perhaps runs quite efficiently on a lighter but well thought out diet.

Snipped for focus
In my experience of long-distance hiking, the opposite would be true. You have to eat WAAAAY more in order to sustain yourself, if you've been hiking, for example, day after day "making miles" on the long trip through the Alps that is featured in FB.
Your body in that situation turns into a well-oiled machine and has to be fueled with a gobsmacking number of calories in relevant nutritional amounts. Your body does not like it at ALL if you don't follow through; after long-distance hikers have been out on the trail for a month or so, with a 30 lb pack (like ED), they are going through 4000-6000 calories a day. Your body turns to muscle, with very little fat, even the women. Any deficit in that nutrition and calories will rob your organism, consume muscle, mess with your head, play havoc with your joints.
From reports—and after seeing the photo of the dinner of gnocchi, green leaves, and a brown pot of something, which didn't look like there was any fat or any protein—I would say there was a mismatch between what your body is asking for and what you are giving it. I say this in light of the extensive hiking (every day at home is a whole different thing).
Then there's the factor of November at altitude....

So, in my experience, ED's eating style is not at all compatible with her hiking goals.

 

[RickshawFan]

You are right about potassium levels. A relative , a healthy eater, collapsed outside Tesco and was taken to hospital in an ambulance. Not vulnerable in a dangerous place, like a lake, thank goodness. Tests showed low potassium. She was advised to eat a banana every morning - as simple as that. She never collapsed again.
ED had been hiking for most of the past month using up many vital nutrients. We underestimate the importance of certain foods when a shortage can have dramatic results. We can think of various common vitamins/minerals etc where a simple shortage can have profound effects on our bodies, mood etc.

Low potassium killed Karen Carpenter. Suddenly.

 

[otto]

Yes we have three individual witnesses who encounter Esther and mention ‘food’. Two of these share their own rations with Esther and the third is asked for fresh food.

Is this due to issues with finance or Esther’s desire to exert extreme controls over her food intake. Either way it is odd. If finances had run out she should have returned home or organised more. Is she punishing herself somehow? An earlier video of her shows Esther talking about her beliefs that food will be there for her if she needs it .. by the kindness of others.

This isn’t a demonstration of expert hiker behaviour, and yet she is an experienced hiker. Heading up a mountain at 3 pm and asking for fruit or something fresh means that maybe she only had some oats with her for her overnight stay i. e she was missing the red pepper and small lettuce element ( that she appeared to believe were satisfactory provisions for an overnight hike!)

Each time we discuss Esther asking strangers for food, I wonder what I would do in that situation. If I was on a backcountry hike with enough provisions for myself when a friendly stranger asked for some food, would I give it? The two women gave Esther food, the male olympian did not.

I think I would tell her that I had no food, even if that was not true. I think the olympian did have food, as I cannot imagine an elite athlete hiking without, at the very least, a couple of energy bars. I think people that gave her food felt sorry for her, whereas she perhaps viewed asking for food as a commune style backpacker way of life. The problem is that she was 6 years into nomadic living and others were on day hikes. If she was at home in the UK, how would she feel if strangers asked her for food? Was she able to see the disconnect in how she was living?

 

[RickshawFan]

This is what happens if you're "doing miles" and not eating right. And this particular guy wasn't moving that fast!

Websleuths thread with coroner's photos

 

[Grouse]

<snipped for focus>
From the link:

If she had started on a full stomach after a lunch with lentils, rice, vegetables, nuts and olive oil, this might have supported her well through the afternoon.

Good point that she may have fuelled up before leaving. Still a meagre ration to take though.

 

[otto]

Also if one continues along this route, they pass another large lake and then seem to descend a very steep section. I find this route seems to be a lot more challenging and I wish we know more about it.

According to the dossier, she would take a different route - starting with the switchbacks.



Le Port de Venasque

 

[otto]

I think the point is, she didnt ask because she was hungry or needed food. She had another intention.

JMO

If she didn't need the food, she wouldn't ask for it because it means carrying more food than she needs.

 

[RickshawFan]

Each time we discuss Esther asking strangers for food, I wonder what I would do in that situation. If I was on a backcountry hike with enough provisions for myself when a friendly stranger asked for some food, would I give it? The two women gave Esther food, the male olympian did not.

I think I would tell her that I had no food, even if that was not true. I think the olympian did have food, as I cannot imagine an elite athlete hiking without, at the very least, a couple of energy bars. I think people that gave her food felt sorry for her, whereas she perhaps viewed asking for food as a commune style backpacker way of life. The problem is that she was 6 years into nomadic living and others were on day hikes. If she was at home in the UK, how would she feel if strangers asked her for food? Was she able to see the disconnect in how she was living?

Everything you say here about ED's situation I agree with. However, for the good of the order, I want to make a big exception to the more general idea of sharing food.
If you're out hiking a major trail and you see a thru-hiker, ask them if they'd like whatever food you don't need. Volunteer it. Ask them to tell you a story about their adventures in exchange. This will almost certainly be win/win.
As you will see upthread, thru-hikers are really into food because their efficient-as-a-machine bodies require constant topping up.
Plus, anything that doesn't taste like tuna or Ramen or instant oatmeal is extra special!

PS this kind of trail encounter involving food is a shared experience. Real connection that's voluntary on both parts. It can be very memorable too.

 

[RickshawFan]

If you haven’t read Esther’s Oct 20 account of their return home from their summer trekking, please do. It’s charming in her joyful exuberance and her obvious gratitude to all who picked them up as hitchhikers. But beyond the hitchhiking with strangers during a pandemic...there’s more insight into their eating habits.

She begins by mentioned her admiration for Dan and the physical effort it takes for him to manage his bowel disease in the wilderness. They are fatigues and weary. But, they leave that morning “on empty tummy’s.”

They decide to leave on a Sunday...so leaving hungry...is compounded by that fact that they keep finding shops closed....because it’s Sunday. They are exceedingly lucky in finding one ride after another. N0t so much luck though, in regard to food. Dan continually wants to stop to find food, but Esther puts her thumb out instead and viola...another ride. At one point they pass some open shops but pass them by.

Late in the day, they share a pack of peanuts someone gives them. They don’t eat till they get home, when another kind stranger gives them a box of food and they buy something fresh. They’ve been away for months, remember. What if they had returned after months away to a closed shop and no generous stranger? Traveling hungry on a Sunday...and depending on luck....

IMO, all of Esther’s charm and innocence, does not keep me from shaking my head about their cavalier attitude, their lack of foresight and planning. It is not IMO a role model for others. Imagine an impressionable young person, thinking they can depend on luck and the generosity of others, instead of self sufficiency and careful planning!

Did they give a reason for not supplying themselves on Saturday or Friday so they didn't need shops to be open on Sunday?

 

[RickshawFan]

I want to bring up something that I find extremely odd. In all this time, we don't seem to have heard anything from anybody who encountered ED and DC on their long hiking trip during the summer. There seem to be no witnesses in that category.
I find this quite astounding. Even if you're an introvert, you will remember fellow hikers and they will remember you. Encounters in the backcountry are not at all the same as in town.
If you look at the WS case I referenced ^^^, it will be obvious that even someone who wants to hide his identity doesn't escape unnoticed. People remembered him. Had random photos of him.
But why nothing like that for ED and DC.?

 

[otto]

If you haven’t read Esther’s Oct 20 account of their return home from their summer trekking, please do. It’s charming in her joyful exuberance and her obvious gratitude to all who picked them up as hitchhikers. But beyond the hitchhiking with strangers during a pandemic...there’s more insight into their eating habits.

She begins by mentioned her admiration for Dan and the physical effort it takes for him to manage his bowel disease in the wilderness. They are fatigues and weary. But, they leave that morning “on empty tummy’s.”

They decide to leave on a Sunday...so leaving hungry...is compounded by that fact that they keep finding shops closed....because it’s Sunday. They are exceedingly lucky in finding one ride after another. N0t so much luck though, in regard to food. Dan continually wants to stop to find food, but Esther puts her thumb out instead and viola...another ride. At one point they pass some open shops but pass them by.

Late in the day, they share a pack of peanuts someone gives them. They don’t eat till they get home, when another kind stranger gives them a box of food and they buy something fresh. They’ve been away for months, remember. What if they had returned after months away to a closed shop and no generous stranger? Traveling hungry on a Sunday...and depending on luck....

IMO, all of Esther’s charm and innocence, does not keep me from shaking my head about their cavalier attitude, their lack of foresight and planning. It is not IMO a role model for others. Imagine an impressionable young person, thinking they can depend on luck and the generosity of others, instead of self sufficiency and careful planning!

This really is a rookie mistake. After 6 years of nomadic living, they knew perfectly well that some places are closed on Sundays. Everyone who has travelled has made that mistake once, but they learn to plan better to avoid making the same mistakes again.

It almost seems like a game they played between themselves and strangers - how lucky can they be on any particular day with strangers looking after their needs. I only say this because there are several instances where they did not plan for food and transportation. There must be other instances where they were not so lucky, where they did not get 8 rides in one day to get back to the van so they could eat.