Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[stmarysmead]

I am guessing that as soon as it is humanly possible Dan will be in the area searching again.

 

[otto]

It's a difficult one isn't it.

There is so little evidence as to what on earth could have happened - a few sightings, a few phone calls, a few tabloid reports. All that we can do is speculate as to where she might have been and when, what she might have had with her, who else might have had contact with, what might be her usual way of doing things, and what she might be thinking. The most information that we have is that left by Esther herself - the wealth of information online from which, because of its honesty, brings her emotions to the forefront.

To discount her motivations and state of mind, and her relationship, would be to disregard something that might play a huge part in her disappearance - or it might not - and that would be an omission. How to do it respectfully though?

To discount some of the possibilities that have been discussed would also be an omission, but we have to respect that Websleuths doesn't allow theories of voluntary disappearance - does that stop us from including these among possibilities though?

I like this thread - I like that it's members have volunteered snippets of personal information, I too like the obvious talents and experiences of people on the thread, and the discussions. And it's thanks to Esther, if you think about it, that we are all discussing these things. I really wouldn't want the thread to be closed down, and I hope that one day there will be an outcome, sad though it is likely to be (Brighton Beach would be amazing!) Obviously we need to respect Websleuths terms, and there are times when we definitely need to remember that this is a person that we are discussing (me included - it's just so easy to get carried away with ideas).

Maybe the moderators could give us a bit of a hand and warn us when we are getting too carried away, before we overstep any marks - can they do that?

Over the years, on this forum, there have been several missing people that were eventually identified as suicide. There was one woman who went to great lengths to give the perception of criminal event, including animal blood in her vehicle and drowning in a drainage pipe. It was very odd, but after everything was investigated, suicide was the answer.

At this time, all options are on the table for Esther. It's highly unlikely that there's third party involvement - ruled out by French investigators - but it's not completely impossible. Accident is an obvious possibility. Voluntary disappearance cannot be ruled out.

We need more clues.

 

[RickshawFan]

I have removed this post to avoid unnecessary conflict.

 

[otto]

I haven't really seen anyone arguing for what you are saying in your second paragraph, Otto.

And I absolutely agree with your first, at least in so far as a liberal arts education. In fact, it's been my experience that the more elite the liberal arts degree, the more versatile are the options after graduating. And where ED is concerned, we are talking about an elite BA.

Liberal arts is a whole 'nother thing. I speak on it, let me be clear, from my experience.

Four students a year! That seems like a highly selective area of study. I think Esther must have been a remarkable woman, which makes it hard to understand the tone in her writings and witness statements just prior to her disappearance.

"Wadham admits around four students each year to read for the degree of Economics and Management. The subject provides an excellent opportunity to combine the study of economics with a range of subjects in management studies."​

Economics and Management.

 

[patCee]

At the risk of being repetitive I've put this as a memory jog. It's from the French police and it may inspire more thoughts. For me it reconfirmed the weather was fine and the trails were easy to follow unless there was ice and snow at high altitude.

"The weather is fine today and it is not possible that she has disappeared because she was overtaken by the bad weather, because the only time it was bad was the night from Thursday to Friday when there was snowfall and ice, but we were already looking for her by then.

Dingley was on the Chemin de l'Impératrice hiking trail via the Port de Venasque before heading to the Porte de la Glère in the Luchon Valley, along mountain corridors at elevations of up to 2,738 meters ( 8,990 feet) on the Franco-Spanish border road.

“If she had stayed on the trails she shouldn't have had a problem, but sometimes with the snow and ice at high altitude it is difficult to follow the trails,” Gaillard said, adding that Dingley was wearing dark clothes. and was wearing a gray backpack, which added to the difficulty in finding her. He said there was no sign of her yellow tent to suggest she had camped.

Les gendarmes vont réduire la recherche de la randonneuse britannique Esther Dingley dans les Pyrénées | France

 

[patCee]

DCs facebook post re the SAR searches.
It sounds very clear in professional opinions, but it is from DC and not printed by the SAR themselves. I'm not clear whether there has been anything since that contradicted the view that ED was not on the mountain?

In a

post on Facebook, he praised the French and Spanish search and rescue teams’ efforts, but said: “Taking into account Esther’s high level of experience, the nature of the terrain, the good weather she would have had, the fact she had a clearly defined route for Sunday evening and Monday, and various other factors, both search coordinators have essentially told me that the prevailing opinion in the search teams is that she isn’t there.

Esther Dingley: Partner says police ‘looking at non-accident options’

 

[otto]

At the risk of being repetitive I've put this as a memory jog. It's from the French police and it may inspire more thoughts. For me it reconfirmed the weather was fine and the trails were easy to follow unless there was ice and snow at high altitude.

"The weather is fine today and it is not possible that she has disappeared because she was overtaken by the bad weather, because the only time it was bad was the night from Thursday to Friday when there was snowfall and ice, but we were already looking for her by then.

Dingley was on the Chemin de l'Impératrice hiking trail via the Port de Venasque before heading to the Porte de la Glère in the Luchon Valley, along mountain corridors at elevations of up to 2,738 meters ( 8,990 feet) on the Franco-Spanish border road.

“If she had stayed on the trails she shouldn't have had a problem, but sometimes with the snow and ice at high altitude it is difficult to follow the trails,” Gaillard said, adding that Dingley was wearing dark clothes. and was wearing a gray backpack, which added to the difficulty in finding her. He said there was no sign of her yellow tent to suggest she had camped.

Les gendarmes vont réduire la recherche de la randonneuse britannique Esther Dingley dans les Pyrénées | France

Stating that she was on the Chemin de l'Impératrice trail presumes that she passed the Refuge de Venasque and was hiking on Nov 23. I wonder whether that information came from her partner.

The problem is that we now know there's no evidence that she arrived at the Refuge de Venasque, so it cannot be assumed that she was on that trail.

The Chemin de l'Impératrice trail starts around the negative sign and goes towards the A on the map.

 

[otto]

DCs facebook post re the SAR searches.
It sounds very clear in professional opinions, but it is from DC and not printed by the SAR themselves. I'm not clear whether there has been anything since that contradicted the view that ED was not on the mountain?

In a

post on Facebook, he praised the French and Spanish search and rescue teams’ efforts, but said: “Taking into account Esther’s high level of experience, the nature of the terrain, the good weather she would have had, the fact she had a clearly defined route for Sunday evening and Monday, and various other factors, both search coordinators have essentially told me that the prevailing opinion in the search teams is that she isn’t there.

Esther Dingley: Partner says police ‘looking at non-accident options’

That's from December 1, 2020. Much has changed since then.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Dan must feel so helpless being unable to get up there and search. I think if I were him I’d be spending all my time mastering how to use a really good drone.

 

[patCee]

The Chemin de l'Impératrice trail starts around the negative sign and goes towards the A on the map.

SBM
I'm not good with these trail maps, but is that the trail that dips into France.

That's from December 1, 2020. Much has changed since then.

I know, but I understand the SAR searched thoroughly away from the trails too. I know you have looked into all of this really well. Don't let me take you backwards, but some might feel a fresh look is worth it.

 

[patCee]

Dan must feel so helpless being unable to get up there and search. I think if I were him I’d be spending all my time mastering how to use a really good drone.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's been up there again after a rest from his first search. If the hunters can do it...............

 

[otto]

SBM
I'm not good with these trail maps, but is that the trail that dips into France.

I know, but I understand the SAR searched thoroughly away from the trails too. I know you have looked into all of this really well. Don't let me take you backwards, but some might feel a fresh look is worth it.

Crossing through the Port de Venasque means "dipping into France."

I found that comment so odd because she intended to stay at the Refuge de Venasque, which is in France, and said she might "dip into France." It's as though she hadn't looked at the maps at all, other than how to get to the Pic de Sauvegarde.

Some suggested that she was speaking in code with her partner so no on would know that she was breaking quarantine in France, but I doubt it.

She seemed to be unaware that the Refuge de Venasque is in France, that the refuge has a Winter room, there's a booking option, sign-in, payment required, and other details that she should have looked into if she was genuinely going to hike that area.

 

[ZaZara]

Esther Dingley has been missing for 2 months today.

As soon as the weather allows it, Spanish LE will start searching for her from her last known location, the Pic de Salvaguardia. Possibly already from the beginning of March, or later, depending on the weather.

 

[patCee]

Esther Dingley has been missing for 2 months today.

As soon as the weather allows it, Spanish LE will start searching for her from her last known location, the Pic de Salvaguardia. Possibly already from the beginning of March, or later, depending on the weather.

They may do some searching earlier, remember they do training during the winter and said they would do further searches as part of that.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Crossing through the Port de Venasque means "dipping into France."

I found that comment so odd because she intended to stay at the Refuge de Venasque, which is in France, and said she might "dip into France." It's as though she hadn't looked at the maps at all, other than how to get to the Pic de Sauvegarde.

Some suggested that she was speaking in code with her partner so no on would know that she was breaking quarantine in France, but I doubt it.

She seemed to be unaware that the Refuge de Venasque is in France, that the refuge has a Winter room, there's a booking option, sign-in, payment required, and other details that she should have looked into if she was genuinely going to hike that area.

I think she meant dipping into France properly i.e. to go to a shop or village. Proper French France with French people and things - the mountains probably feel a bit state-less! I am pretty sure that even being a basic French speaker she knew the “refuge de” would be in France.

 

[ZaZara]

They may do some searching earlier, remember they do training during the winter and said they would do further searches as part of that.

They would do that, in the lower areas of the mountains, just in case ED had wandered off (though there are no indications that this had happened.) The Salvaguardia as the last known location is planned for when the snow has melted.

 

[BobbleBob]

She seemed to be unaware that the Refuge de Venasque is in France, that the refuge has a Winter room, there's a booking option, sign-in, payment required, and other details that she should have looked into if she was genuinely going to hike that area.

Did they, ED and DC, usually pay or were they more into ‘ninja camping’ in someone’s barn, shed etc? At least that’s the impression I get from their videos on YouTube/Facebook. So should we expect her to sign in if she was in the refuge?

 

[stmarysmead]

Stating that she was on the Chemin de l'Impératrice trail presumes that she passed the Refuge de Venasque and was hiking on Nov 23. I wonder whether that information came from her partner.

The problem is that we now know there's no evidence that she arrived at the Refuge de Venasque, so it cannot be assumed that she was on that trail.

The Chemin de l'Impératrice trail starts around the negative sign and goes towards the A on the map.

View attachment 280496

But if we assume that, then she would have had cell service for her ph0ne. I wonder why they presumed she had gotten that far?

 

[stmarysmead]

Did they, ED and DC, usually pay or were they more into ‘ninja camping’ in someone’s barn, shed etc? At least that’s the impression I get from their videos on YouTube/Facebook. So should we expect her to sign in if she was in the refuge?

This is a really good point!!! Their videos do show them just using any kind of shelter they might run into. I wonder if the investigators checked odd places on the trails. If you watch the videos they spent one night in a place where they cannot even stand up....looks like a child’s playhouse.

 

[RickshawFan]

DCs facebook post re the SAR searches.
It sounds very clear in professional opinions, but it is from DC and not printed by the SAR themselves. I'm not clear whether there has been anything since that contradicted the view that ED was not on the mountain?

In a

post on Facebook, he praised the French and Spanish search and rescue teams’ efforts, but said: “Taking into account Esther’s high level of experience, the nature of the terrain, the good weather she would have had, the fact she had a clearly defined route for Sunday evening and Monday, and various other factors, both search coordinators have essentially told me that the prevailing opinion in the search teams is that she isn’t there.

Esther Dingley: Partner says police ‘looking at non-accident options’

This statement doesn't comport with the SAR statement. Thanks for putting them side by side.