Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[RedHaus]

So the position of the head isn’t supposedly be where the pillows are?

Correct SMM -- the red pillows are decorative or perhaps for lounging. But the bed runs from left to right of the van, along the whole back wall. So the sleeping pillows are under the comforter to the right... like how my little man is lying.



I can find it if we need to but there's a pic of among the blogs of DC lying just like my little man, reading a book.

 

[RickshawFan]

Bats swarming the street lights would have made it look like something was moving around inside the van.

 

[ZaZara]

3. The bed in this model runs the length of the back wall, above a large storage area. The person's head in that 2/12/2020 picture appears in the middle of the bed.
Search for Esther Dingley: Spanish police say it's 'impossible' and all but give up | Daily Mail Online

View attachment 282468

IMO this occurrence is very important to this case, and all your thoughts above seem very reasonable. So this post may not help at all - its just an observation I had.

RSBM

I've enlarged this picture and I am not sure what is visible in the back of the van. If it is indeed a head, it would be rather small and only the top of it and how can you possibly see that this is a sleeping person? And why would this person be asleep under blazing lights? In the middle of a wide bed? No curtains closed?

IMO the woman with the dog saw the light in the van, took a picture, and what we get is her interpretation, not necessarily what was in fact happening.

 

[Grouse]

Well, exactly this! Really unlikely to be anything nefarious about it (aside from slightly dubious police protocol, perhaps!)

Hmm I'm not sure. I posted some screenshots and street view links of where the van was parked in thread #1 I think it was, and it's in a fairly quiet looking location. It seemed the sort of place where, after dark, the odd dog walker might go past but otherwise looked quiet and not overlooked, and not a place where you'd expect someone to walk past and potentially notice what you were doing even with the light on.

Maybe dubious police protocol as you say but if the witness statement is accurate it potentially goes beyond dubious and into suspicious.

 

[Grouse]

RSBM

I've enlarged this picture and I am not sure what is visible in the back of the van. If it is indeed a head, it would be rather small and only the top of it and how can you possibly see that this is a sleeping person? And why would this person be asleep under blazing lights? In the middle of a wide bed? No curtains closed?

IMO the woman with the dog saw the light in the van, took a picture, and what we get is her interpretation, not necessarily what was in fact happening.

I agree regarding that picture. But light brown hair she said she saw, that's quite specific.

 

[stmarysmead]

What makes it a “credible”sighting IMO is not just the witness’ account...it’s the incredible explanation from the police. I’d be perfectly willing to discount the whole thing, but the explanation from the police beggars belief!
From what we read, it’s a concern to Dan as well. So I’m glad we are spending some time in it.

 

[fridaybaker]

I see what Redhaus means about the head in the middle .. but I don’t think that is the head! It seems too small to be a person’s head and yes it would be way too awkward to have the head in that position. From the photo shown in the post I don’t think the head is visible in that image?

What looks like a person to me looks way out of perspective to be an actual person. The van isn’t that big/long. Look at the size of the front seats. The “person” seems tiny compared to them.

 

[Puzzles]

Snipped BMM – From Missing hiker Esther Dingley's campervan 'spotted with someone sleeping inside' - NZ Herald
Article dated December 10 2020
"Authorities investigating the disappearance of British hiker Esther Dingley in the Pyrenees have come across a bizarre twist.
A witness claims they spotted someone sleeping in Esther's campervan, 10 days after she vanished.
The witness, a local dog walker called Lucia, claims she saw a figure asleep on the back seat of the hiker's Fiat Chausson in Benasque, on December 2.
The 37-year-old hiker vanished during a hike in the Pyrenees on November 22. She has not been heard from since sending a selfie to her boyfriend, Daniel Colegate.
"I saw someone sleeping in the back of the caravan car and I couldn't believe it. I first saw the light on when I took my dog out about 7pm. It seemed a bit strange," Lucia told the Daily Mail.
"Then I took the dog out again about 10pm and I took a closer look. I could see someone asleep in the back of the van. They were lying down. They were not moving. They were lying quite still," she added.
Lucia claims to have been "fobbed off" by Spanish authorities after she raised her concerns with them.
The van was impounded three days after that sighting and it is still in the police compound..."

The witness reported having seen someone sleeping in the back of the van.

 

[Puzzles]

snipped for focus

Yes, it was actually @Puzzles up thread a bit who got me trying to see what she was seeing. So maybe we are all seeing the same thing or seeing nothing at all. I wonder if anyone here has more sophisticated photo viewing technology?....

When I first heard about that story, I actually thought maybe it was Esther... if she had been in some sort of fugue state.

Alas, I am not sure we are actually seeing a person there... but I did try to see a head. If it is a head, it is weirdly placed.

Hi @RedHaus, Please tell us what you're considering when you write "maybe it was Esther... if she had been in some sort of fugue state."

Several times on this thread you've put forth cogent theories about ED's disappearance, and I expect this to be yet another one.

 

[RedHaus]

Hi @RedHaus, Please tell us what you're considering when you write "maybe it was Esther... if she had been in some sort of fugue state." Several times on this thread you've put forth cogent theories about ED's disappearance, and I expect this to be yet another one.

Good question @Puzzles! Ever since I learned of the Hannah Upp (HU) case on St. Thomas USVI, I have seriously pondered the possibility ED disappeared in a dissociative fugue state or some similar dissociative disorder. Below is (1) a link to a ~6m YouTube/ABC video on the HU case, clinical information from (2) Mayo Clinic and (3) Merck, (4) WS link to the HU case, and (5) a link to the ~45m A&E TV show (for U.S) on the HU case - all quite riveting information.

Mayo Clinic: “Dissociative disorders are mental disorders that involve experiencing a disconnection and lack of continuity between thoughts, memories, surroundings, actions and identity. Dissociative disorders usually develop as a reaction to trauma and help keep difficult memories at bay. Signs and symptoms…

· ….
· Significant stress or problems in your relationships, work or other important areas of your life
· Inability to cope well with emotional or professional stress
· Mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts and behaviors” (2)​

Merck: “Dissociative fugue is a rare form of dissociative amnesia… A dissociative fugue may last from hours to months, occasionally longer…. If the fugue lasts several days or longer, people may travel far from home, form a new identity, and begin a new job, unaware of any change in their life… During the fugue, people may appear and act normal or appear only mildly confused and attract no attention.” (3)

As for ED, here is why this strikes me as a possible explanation, not only for her disappearance, but also for her lack of contact with LE, DC, or family (that we know of). IMO, ED simply may not have fully recognized who she was when she disappeared. I say the following as my opinion based on the data I have studied from this case, and I am not attempting any kind of diagnosis as I am not an expert in this area. I am sharing this only because it might provide important insight to help find ED.

• I have come to believe ED was overwhelmed and traumatized at the prospect of returning to a traditional lifestyle and possibly to her long-term relationship.
• ED has a history of depression and openly shared her personal angst and fears on social media as recently as the month before she vanished.
• The strange 'small lettuce-red pepper-oatmeal' overnight hike (with LA) provisions several days before ED disappeared could be early signs of something being off.
• Some here observe starting 19/11, ED’s patterns of posting to social media changed significantly, raising the question as to why – this theory might explain that.
• What ED told Mr. Ballarin on 21/11 may have been her new plans, despite how different they were from what she told DC just a half hour earlier that morning.
• On 21/11 ED made an odd departure from her stated plans to start her loop in France at the Refuge de Vanesque - she ended up at Cabane la Besurta that night.
• The 22/11 release of the BBC article about the lives of ED and DC may have been a significant trigger for ED, perhaps exacerbating underlying issues.
• We have 26 hours unaccounted for between ~1pm 21/11 and ~3pm 22/11 during which perhaps ED was disoriented or trying to get back on track if you may.
• ED re-summited Pic de Sauvegarde late afternoon, 22/11, oddly asking for fruit from the skier (auto pilot?) and oddly responding to a series of texts (auto pilot?)

So, I now wonder if ED could be wondering around in some sort of fugue state in Bagneres du Luchon, Toulouse, even perhaps working / staying at the Super Bagneres Ski Resort, or anywhere! … an involuntary disappearance from which she would not know she is missing or to communicate with anybody who is looking for her.

Sadly though, someone in such a state, I imagine, is vulnerable and bad things could have happened. For ED's, DC's and her family's sake I hope she is still alive.

1. https://youtu.be/cjo2IQK6prs
2. Dissociative disorders - Symptoms and causes
3. Dissociative Fugue - Mental Health Disorders - Merck Manuals Consumer Version
4. US Virgin Islands - Hannah Upp, 32, St. Thomas, 14 Sept 2017
5. Vanished in Paradise: The Untold Story | A&E

 

[Inspectormotive]

To recap my understanding of Esther..
She was or appeared reluctant to return to France postponing her return several times. Had indicated prior that she would prefer to settle in Spain.
She may have agreed privately with DC that they would file for French residency but fundamentally her words and actions suggest reluctance.
She had signal when she told DC it was poor.
She was due to return to France within a few days of her last posting.

I think she did not want to return. I do not think she self harmed she does not come over that way to me. Emotional does not mean suicidal.
She told the girl in the bothy she had broken up with her partner she may not have told DC this. Does not mean its untrue. Simply means she had come to that conclusion and hadn't told him.

I do think she disappeared voluntary and maybe another person has harmed her or she is in Spain getting her head together.
Jmo

 

[PeggyHenry]

No it doesn't seem solid enough to be the dark red cushions shown along the back wall in ED.DCs pics. In the lit up area there's a shape low down against the white area, and to the right, against the edge of the light area there looks to be another sketchy shape thats higher than the low down shape on the left. Difficult to see whether it's a person.

To get a good idea of sleeping arrangements in the van then take a look at their videos as I remember seeing the sleeping area quite clearly in one of them. I don’t think that any picture in the media showed the sleeping person. I don’t think the Spanish authorities wanted it publicly discussed and closed the whole thing down quickly by their response. I mentioned unthread how the reporting of the brown hair quickly vanished from media reports although another Member here kindly found a version with it in. I’ve always thought this ‘sleeper in the van’ extremely significant.

 

[Normal Norm]

So, I now wonder if ED could be wondering around in some sort of fugue state in Bagneres du Luchon, Toulouse, even perhaps working / staying at the Super Bagneres Ski Resort, or anywhere! … an involuntary disappearance from which she would not know she is missing or to communicate with anybody who is looking for her.

There is a huge amount of well-argued detail in your post, RedHaus, almost all of which I agree with. The only bit I would quibble with is the bit I have left un-snipped above. Given the amount of publicity the case has had in both Spain and France, I think it would be very difficult for Esther to have gone unnoticed for this length of time in the way and in the areas that you talk about.

On the other hand, Esther could quite easily have remained incognito all this time if she had had help from a willing third party.

 

[The_Investigator]

Looking at their blog for the first time. Immediate impression: this was their business rather than a lifestyle - or rather, a lifestyle that became a business. It's all very carefully managed. The dogs, for example, clearly serve an important PR function, as did ED's charity cycle that immediately got her into the papers. They seem to court publicity however they can and I suspect that DC manages all that side of the business. That is obviously going to take a good deal of drive and therefore some stress - especially with regard to how long they can keep it up. (Personally, I don't know how they do it. I like Alpine hiking as much as anyone, but a 3-day/2-night camping trek seems like quite enough. After that it gets repetitive and frankly boring.)

I don't know if the November trip was to 'keep up the business' or for ED to take some personal time to think about things. Both motives may have psychological consequences.

Keeping up the business also relies on the strength of their relationship. If there were problems with that, as suggested, then the BBC feature might have provided additional pressure, by 'locking her in' in just at a time when she might have been getting fed up of being managed by DC.

As to the disappearance, there are a hundred possible scenarios and it all comes down to probabilities based on intuition seeing as there is no solid evidence for anything. The key indicator, for me, is the bizarre double ascent of Sauvegarde. It's hard to imagine why anyone would climb the same mountain twice on successive days when the reasons for climbing a mountain are a) achievement, b) the view (if you're lucky) - both of which she satisfied the previous day. Maybe it's a good spot for lammergeiers, but as far as I know she's not a birdwatcher. And I can't believe she arranged to meet someone at the top. For one thing, they would be visible to each other as they hiked up. She must have had some personal motive for going up again.
I'd like to get away from the suicide theory but more and more things seems to be pointing towards it.

<modsnip> did she walk alone one day, with her own thoughts,.. with a friend the next, to talk to through her thoughts? I don’t think she did a run one day and did a nature day (collect, draw, photography) the other, as it appears they didn’t partake in hobbies when walking. I just need to help sort out why 2 days in a row, as it really is starting to bother me now,..... what was the difference on the second day, beyond the later time in the day?

 

[The_Investigator]

Yes, maybe they have something they are not saying on the criminal investigation but its certainly not enough not to continue looking for Esther. If Dan thought it was hunters then why did he not question them when he saw them in the distance when he stayed 2 nights looking for Esther, a point previously made here. I dont see voluntary disappearance here, they had plans. Esther had only recently agreed to be a guest blogger on a Camino page which is run by some friends. It seams Dan has more to say on disappearing into thin air, which could mean that Dan thinks the mysterious 411 is also an option of what happened to Esther.

Do you have proof of her agreement with friends for the blog, where does that information come from please, so we can confirm it is true? As it shows planning for the future.

 

[The_Investigator]

No, I agree. I've deffo got the right van and cushions but it's far too speculative. Back to catching up on the David Lytton thread methinks. Nothing to see here (quite literally )

Yes, David Lytton, I’ve gone back to that one. How did he lie so normally when being poisoned so painfully?

 

[The_Investigator]

Correct SMM -- the red pillows are decorative or perhaps for lounging. But the bed runs from left to right of the van, along the whole back wall. So the sleeping pillows are under the comforter to the right... like how my little man is lying.

View attachment 282477

I can find it if we need to but there's a pic of among the blogs of DC lying just like my little man, reading a book.

Brilliant, I absolutely love you little man

 

[The_Investigator]

Brilliant, I absolutely love you little man

Sorry I meant YOUR little man in the picture, that’s what I liked,.. typing to fast, must get back to work !

 

[sundaaaay]

I have an issue with her being spotted in the camper.

Lots of people who passed ED on her hikes / spoke to her, all remembered her. They have spoken to authorities. If ED returned to the camper van, or even continued on the trip the following days, she likely would have been spotted by many other people.

 

[stmarysmead]

Good question @Puzzles! Ever since I learned of the Hannah Upp (HU) case on St. Thomas USVI, I have seriously pondered the possibility ED disappeared in a dissociative fugue state or some similar dissociative disorder. Below is (1) a link to a ~6m YouTube/ABC video on the HU case, clinical information from (2) Mayo Clinic and (3) Merck, (4) WS link to the HU case, and (5) a link to the ~45m A&E TV show (for U.S) on the HU case - all quite riveting information.

Mayo Clinic: “Dissociative disorders are mental disorders that involve experiencing a disconnection and lack of continuity between thoughts, memories, surroundings, actions and identity. Dissociative disorders usually develop as a reaction to trauma and help keep difficult memories at bay. Signs and symptoms…

· ….
· Significant stress or problems in your relationships, work or other important areas of your life
· Inability to cope well with emotional or professional stress
· Mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts and behaviors” (2)​

Merck: “Dissociative fugue is a rare form of dissociative amnesia… A dissociative fugue may last from hours to months, occasionally longer…. If the fugue lasts several days or longer, people may travel far from home, form a new identity, and begin a new job, unaware of any change in their life… During the fugue, people may appear and act normal or appear only mildly confused and attract no attention.” (3)

As for ED, here is why this strikes me as a possible explanation, not only for her disappearance, but also for her lack of contact with LE, DC, or family (that we know of). IMO, ED simply may not have fully recognized who she was when she disappeared. I say the following as my opinion based on the data I have studied from this case, and I am not attempting any kind of diagnosis as I am not an expert in this area. I am sharing this only because it might provide important insight to help find ED.

• I have come to believe ED was overwhelmed and traumatized at the prospect of returning to a traditional lifestyle and possibly to her long-term relationship.
• ED has a history of depression and openly shared her personal angst and fears on social media as recently as the month before she vanished.
• The strange 'small lettuce-red pepper-oatmeal' overnight hike (with LA) provisions several days before ED disappeared could be early signs of something being off.
• Some here observe starting 19/11, ED’s patterns of posting to social media changed significantly, raising the question as to why – this theory might explain that.
• What ED told Mr. Ballarin on 21/11 may have been her new plans, despite how different they were from what she told DC just a half hour earlier that morning.
• On 21/11 ED made an odd departure from her stated plans to start her loop in France at the Refuge de Vanesque - she ended up at Cabane la Besurta that night.
• The 22/11 release of the BBC article about the lives of ED and DC may have been a significant trigger for ED, perhaps exacerbating underlying issues.
• We have 26 hours unaccounted for between ~1pm 21/11 and ~3pm 22/11 during which perhaps ED was disoriented or trying to get back on track if you may.
• ED re-summited Pic de Sauvegarde late afternoon, 22/11, oddly asking for fruit from the skier (auto pilot?) and oddly responding to a series of texts (auto pilot?)

So, I now wonder if ED could be wondering around in some sort of fugue state in Bagneres du Luchon, Toulouse, even perhaps working / staying at the Super Bagneres Ski Resort, or anywhere! … an involuntary disappearance from which she would not know she is missing or to communicate with anybody who is looking for her.

Sadly though, someone in such a state, I imagine, is vulnerable and bad things could have happened. For ED's, DC's and her family's sake I hope she is still alive.

1. https://youtu.be/cjo2IQK6prs
2. Dissociative disorders - Symptoms and causes
3. Dissociative Fugue - Mental Health Disorders - Merck Manuals Consumer Version
4. US Virgin Islands - Hannah Upp, 32, St. Thomas, 14 Sept 2017
5. Vanished in Paradise: The Untold Story | A&E

Very well articulated theory, and I think it’s definitely a possibility...but I think at some point, there has to be third party involvement for her to successfully stay away this long.

I’m assuming nothing was taken from the van...extra clothes, shoes, etc when police searched it. She has accessed no money, used no charge cards. Now she could have sold some of her expensive equipment, but I think there would have been reports of that. IMO, if she’s alive, someone else is facilitating this disappearance. Maybe a criminal act or maybe just another of the helpful people that seem to often rescue Esther.