Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[RedHaus]

That's an interesting point which I hadn't considered before: the current covid situation makes for a perfect time to disappear if that's your intention.
The streets are quiet with everyone staying at home more. Meaning less interactions when you do go out and also less suspicion of someone hiding in a building and rarely leaving.
Everyone is wearing a facemask (in most countries, I think?) which both helps to hide your face but also muffle your voice a bit and make it harder to spot an accent.
Nobody has any visitors so if you're staying with someone there's less chance that one of their friends/family will find you.

All excellent points, @touch! It still amazes me that despite no new information, really, we can still find interesting tidbits to consider. And this is an important factor.

 

[patCee]

I wonder how I’d feel if less than a week after I set off for some freedom, I learned I was the center of such a huge media storm? Coming forward would mean laying bare all my reasons, all my fears and implicating perhaps a kind friend who’d helped me. Just trying to imagine how someone would feel...if, in this imaginary scenario, she did not want to justify all her reasons for leaving to Dan, would she want to do it on such an enormously public way?

Somehow I believe she would and although she may feel bad for DC I think she'd feel justified for validating her reasons. She has been described as an open book.

 

[RedHaus]

BBM
Hi @Normal Norm,

The idea from Redhouse that ED could be suffering from Dissociative Fugue explains so many details we've puzzled over. Now you, @Normal Norm, have added an explanation as to why she may have managed to remain hidden from the public.... Great team work, you two... But from studying the HU case, IMO, it's possible ED suddenly entered a fugue state some time either after or before her disappearance. She may have created a new identity, announced it to a new friend, and they are together, in isolation from Covid, anywhere at all in the EU.

snipped for focus, BBM

Exactly, @Puzzles. I appreciate that you are seeing the same parallels between these two cases as I am. Watching that 45 minute A&E show is what did it for me. And that New Yorker article is a big piece of the new WS thread on the HU case - eye opening. Anyhow, I recognize others may not see the same thing... that's why we sleuth!

 

[Inspectormotive]

Grouse said it better than I though my meaning was same

Also stmarysmead I'd be mortified as would Esther that Dan went nuclear on her
Remember this is the woman who had to remind him to say thanks to some priest or some kind of religious man for giving them shelter in their previous trip. Also had to point out that search and rescue were actually looking for a missing human being on their trip.
She seemed to me aware of people's feelings
OK let's not forget she may have an accident in the mountains but let's also say Esther we get you ...if she is alive and well

 

[Ruthbullock]

I've outlined what I am guessing people are seeing as a person with brown hair lying down

That’s a very very short person, who is thin if they are curled up in half a bed, full width it’s 2.35 m, so to have a head in the middle is 1.17m - anyone volunteering to sleep in a bed that length?
Sharing campervan measurements - it might not be identical, but the measurements will be the same
https://www.chausson-camping-cars.fr/infos/9/644/en

 

[RedHaus]

That’s a very very short person, who is thin if they are curled up in half a bed, full width it’s 2.35 m, so to have a head in the middle is 1.17m - anyone volunteering to sleep in a bed that length?
Sharing campervan measurements - it might not be identical, but the measurements will be the same
https://www.chausson-camping-cars.fr/infos/9/644/en

Actually, Ruthbullock, not sure if you saw my "little man" picture from last night. But that bed actually has the head on the right side and the foot on the left side. It is likely a two-person (double) sized bed and full length. That is why, if there is a person lying like that media pic, it seems really strange. The head is in the middle of the bed.

There are several images in DC / ED videos and blog pics of DC lying just like this "little man" picture... This only shows how bizarre that media picture is, really.

 

[FrostOwl]

I've outlined what I am guessing people are seeing as a person with brown hair lying down

In the photo RedHaus have posted there are a white pillow with a flower motive, could that create the image of "brown hair"?

 

[stmarysmead]

Somehow I believe she would and although she may feel bad for DC I think she'd feel justified for validating her reasons. She has been described as an open book.

I might feel trapped and outsmarted again. I might feel that the world would cast me as a villain.

Does anyone remember when the first BBC publicity on this disappearance started?

 

[FrostOwl]

That's an interesting point which I hadn't considered before: the current covid situation makes for a perfect time to disappear if that's your intention.
The streets are quiet with everyone staying at home more. Meaning less interactions when you do go out and also less suspicion of someone hiding in a building and rarely leaving.
Everyone is wearing a facemask (in most countries, I think?) which both helps to hide your face but also muffle your voice a bit and make it harder to spot an accent.
Nobody has any visitors so if you're staying with someone there's less chance that one of their friends/family will find you.

But wouldn't that, to be locked away/up with one person, be exactly the same situation Esther appears to want to be running away from with Dan? If being outdoors, and climbing mountains is how she wants to live, why would she want to give that up to go and stay isolated with one person, even if it was someone new, someone she didn't know all about. Even if she wanted to leave Dan, there were her parents, and the dogs, would she really want to put her parents through a situation where they wouldn't know if their child was dead or alive?

 

[Puzzles]

I've outlined what I am guessing people are seeing as a person with brown hair lying down

Yes, @Quietey, that's what I saw as the head of someone lying down at the back of the van. Now, with many here discounting it, I'm open to it being nothing at all.

I still wish to know what was written in the police report, after the dog-walker witness described having seen someone asleep in the back of the van.

As other sleuths have suggested, it just makes no sense for LE to have published the report explaining what she saw was a forensic officer, working late, with no protective clothing.

 

[Puzzles]

I might feel trapped and outsmarted again. I might feel that the world would cast me as a villain.

Does anyone remember when the first BBC publicity on this disappearance started?

Hi @stmarysmead,

Earliest I found is November 29th.
Esther Dingley search: Six teams look for her in Pyrenees

Looking forward to where your mind might lead us now

 

[Puzzles]

But wouldn't that, to be locked away/up with one person, be exactly the same situation Esther appears to want to be running away from with Dan? If being outdoors, and climbing mountains is how she wants to live, why would she want to give that up to go and stay isolated with one person, even if it was someone new, someone she didn't know all about. Even if she wanted to leave Dan, there were her parents, and the dogs, would she really want to put her parents through a situation where they wouldn't know if their child was dead or alive?[/QUOTE]
BBM
Hi @FrostOwl, I understand what you're saying here, but if ED was in a fugue state, what I understand from such an illness is she wouldn't remember having disliked being isolated with one person.
She wouldn't remember Dan, her parents, the dogs, nor anything about her previously-lived life.

 

[stmarysmead]

But wouldn't that, to be locked away/up with one person, be exactly the same situation Esther appears to want to be running away from with Dan? If being outdoors, and climbing mountains is how she wants to live, why would she want to give that up to go and stay isolated with one person, even if it was someone new, someone she didn't know all about. Even if she wanted to leave Dan, there were her parents, and the dogs, would she really want to put her parents through a situation where they wouldn't know if their child was dead or alive?

But, just speculating, there are other ways of feeling confined. It’s not just four walls.. If a person feels controlled, if they feel their opinions carry no weight,...if a mutual business, empathy for a partners illness make you feel trapped or limited in your own choices, those situations would not be present in a temporary stay with a friend.

Maybe Esther felt none of these things...but if she did...IMO a new friend would not impose these same stresses upon her.

The dogs were already gone. The publicity push had begun full force. They were in locked down France, not Spain as she wished. Maybe the original plan was to c0ntact her parents...but the media extravaganza began so soon. Thanks, Puzzles...Nov 29. A lot of women or men could take a week off from their marriage/partnership without it become an international media storm.

Just my wandering imagination as usual.

The publicity on Nov 22 certainly had consequences...

 

[FrostOwl]

@Puzzles I can't copy your answer as I'm on a surf pad, but to assume that Esther suddenly on her way down from the Pic got a case of psychogenic amnesia/fugue, and that caused her to disappear and not remember who she was seems to me too farfetched. More likely would be a fall and having hit her head. Even if she would be in a fugue state, it's unlikely that she has managed to stay alive on her own, had it been spring, summer, or even early autumn that would have been possible, but not late November. If someone had found her on the mountainside showing any signs of cognitive impairment, why not take her to a hospital? The only reason for that would be abduction, isn't it what Dan thinks happened to her?
If she doesn't have psychogenic amnesia, how would you explain her staying away voluntarily alive, without money, and having left her past behind.

 

[FrostOwl]

But, just speculating, there are other ways of feeling confined. It’s not just four walls.. If a person feels controlled, if they feel their opinions carry no weight,...if a mutual business, empathy for a partners illness make you feel trapped or limited in your own choices, those situations would not be present in a temporary stay with a friend.

Maybe Esther felt none of these things...but if she did...IMO a new friend would not impose these same stresses upon her.

The dogs were already gone. The publicity push had begun full force. They were in locked down France, not Spain as she wished. Maybe the original plan was to c0ntact her parents...but the media extravaganza began so soon. Thanks, Puzzles...Nov 29. A lot of women or men could take a week off from their marriage/partnership without it become an international media storm.

Just my wandering imagination as usual.

The publicity on Nov 22 certainly had consequences...

It's one thing to take a temporary break from a partner, and family, but to be gone for more than two months? She did have a week from the time she was last heard from, and to when her disappearance hit the news. There would have been time to get to another part of Spain if she wanted to, but not on her own, without money. If staying with someone, without feeling the relationship stress, how long would it take Esther to miss her wandering life?
As for the dogs, do we know if it was a temporary or permanent separation?

 

[Puzzles]

@Puzzles I can't copy your answer as I'm on a surf pad, but to assume that Esther suddenly on her way down from the Pic got a case of psychogenic amnesia/fugue, and that caused her to disappear and not remember who she was seems to me too farfetched. More likely would be a fall and having hit her head. Even if she would be in a fugue state, it's unlikely that she has managed to stay alive on her own, had it been spring, summer, or even early autumn that would have been possible, but not late November. If someone had found her on the mountainside showing any signs of cognitive impairment, why not take her to a hospital? The only reason for that would be abduction, isn't it what Dan thinks happened to her?
If she doesn't have psychogenic amnesia, how would you explain her staying away voluntarily alive, without money, and having left her past behind.

Hi @FrostOwl
Snipped for focus and BBM – To answer your two questions
1. "If someone had found her on the mountainside showing any signs of cognitive impairment, why not take her to a hospital?"
- As described earlier in previous posts, a person suffering from dissociative fugue (it is no longer called psychogenic fugue) would not usually present with any cognitive impairment.

2. "If she doesn't have psychogenic amnesia, how would you explain her staying away voluntarily alive, without money, and having left her past behind."
- As suggested earlier in previous posts by both @stmarysmead and I, IF she is in a dissociative fugue state, ED may have assistance from a willing third party.

 

[ZaZara]

It's one thing to take a temporary break from a partner, and family, but to be gone for more than two months? She did have a week from the time she was last heard from, and to when her disappearance hit the news. There would have been time to get to another part of Spain if she wanted to, but not on her own, without money. If staying with someone, without feeling the relationship stress, how long would it take Esther to miss her wandering life?
As for the dogs, do we know if it was a temporary or permanent separation?

People have a right to disappear. If you don't want The Big Search to follow, inform the Police, in Esther's case possibly both in France and Spain and be gone.

I'm not into this Oh her partner was so .... whatever would have made her want to do a runner without telling him, but speaking to LE and informing them that you don't want to be found, would have solved that dilemma. A smart operator would have known this and acted before the news broke.

Instead, Esther told LE in Benasque that she would be gone for two or three days, so that must have been her plan.

 

[stmarysmead]

People have a right to disappear. If you don't want The Big Search to follow, inform the Police, in Esther's case possibly both in France and Spain and be gone.

I'm not into this Oh her partner was so .... whatever would have made her want to do a runner without telling him, but speaking to LE and informing them that you don't want to be found, would have solved that dilemma. A smart operator would have known this and acted before the news broke.

Instead, Esther told LE in Benasque that she would be gone for two or three days, so that must have been her plan.

Did she actually tell the LE she would only be gone 2-3 days? Have they reported this somewhere?

Because Dan in the dossier says she set out on a 4-5 day hike.

‘21/11 – Sets off fully equipped for a 4-5 day hike from Benasque (route details are given below.)”

 

[RickshawFan]

The more I read, the more you had all convinced me the police were lying and it was all a conspiracy. But here I am posting a photo from the papers and there is literally no one there ... it is the worst tabloid article ever and some apprentice took the phone call and paid out (before seeing the photo)so they ran with it as a page filler

Yes, I'm with you 100%. I'm back to the bats flitting under the street lights and casting fleeting shadows on that bed, so it looked like someone was moving around. Even a breeze in a tree would do something like that.
And if the person who took the photo was a little spooked by the darkness, it might have been easier to see things that weren't there.
We also don't know if the light was from a security floodlight on the side of the building with a mud clod on it.
Maybe—short of throwing a mud ball on my security light, I'll experiment with my car. But, gosh, that's exactly what it will look like.

New tent campers get freaked out because either someone's headlamp or the moon will light their tent up like that, and then a caterpillar drops on it.... And then there's a breeze in a tree making weird shadows on the tent ceiling, or something you've hung on the ceiling that makes a shadow.

So, I'm sticking by my position unless LE states otherwise.

 

[stmarysmead]

Yes, I'm with you 100%. I'm back to the bats flitting under the street lights and casting fleeting shadows on that bed, so it looked like someone was moving around. Even a breeze in a tree would do something like that.
And if the person who took the photo was a little spooked by the darkness, it might have been easier to see things that weren't there.
We also don't know if the light was from a security floodlight on the side of the building with a mud clod on it.

I could believe that. But why would LE put out such a bizarre explanation to the public...when an explanation like this would have sufficed? Even adding details like the investigator arrived in an unmarked car?