Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[stmarysmead]

Thanks Zara. Good point that police would check to see if the van was still there as the search was beginning.

My speculation is that they may have noted the van’s presence and gone no further...since the most likely explanation was...and is...that Esther has had an accident in the mountains.

But in trying to speculate along Dan’s line of thinking...what if Esther had returned to the van and found a stranger had been squatting there in her absence? The same stranger who returned and was seen days later? Someone with mental or substance abuse issues looking for a warm place to stay off the street?

If, as Dan believes, there was a crime committed, what if the van actually was the crime scene?

 

[ZaZara]

Thanks Zara. Good point that police would check to see if the van was still there as the search was beginning.

My speculation is that they may have noted the van’s presence and gone no further...since the most likely explanation was...and is...that Esther has had an accident in the mountains.

But in trying to speculate along Dan’s line of thinking...what if Esther had returned to the van and found a stranger had been squatting there in her absence? The same stranger who returned and was seen days later? Someone with mental or substance abuse issues looking for a warm place to stay off the street?

If, as Dan believes, there was a crime committed, what if the van actually was the crime scene?

Because the motohome is not an empty shed on wheels?

The van is fitted with an extensive alarm system:

Alarm system – Cab and habitation motion sensors, extra locks on habitation and garage doors

Our Motorhome | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel

Good luck to your squatting stranger with that!

 

[PeggyHenry]

Just thinking that the van was impounded 3 days after the dog-walking lady spotted a person inside it asleep.
It then was further examined in the pound. I don’t get the need for that, if the person inside it was doing a forensics examination.
I’m back again thinking that person was not a forensics person... and noons could have entered the van without overcoming the alarm system. Who was it lying asleep

 

[stmarysmead]

We don’t know if she used the alarm. We don’t even know if she locked the camper or if the lock was broken.


We have an alarm system in our home, never use it. If I were to disappear, someone might say...oh, no, couldn’t have been in their home...they had an extensive state of the art security system. We do.

But that assumption would be wrong.

We don’t know...what we don’t know.

We also don’t know whether the local police entered the van prior to impounding it.

So we really can’t discount much in our speculations.

 

[ZaZara]

We also don’t know whether the local police entered the van prior to impounding it.

So we really can’t discount much in our speculations.

snipped for brevity

It is all in a days work for the police to check the vehicle of a missing person, to see what they left there and to establish what the missing person may have taken with them. They check the home for the same reason. Clothes, equipment, food.
In Esther's case, the van happens to be her home.

LE also would have noticed if the motor home had been broken into.

Speculating that these searches may not have happened should not be done without base, for instance mentions in MSM, imo.

 

[stmarysmead]

Spend some time on the Jon Benet thread.

I’m assuming Benasque is not a high crime area. Neither was Boulder, Colorado.

This situation was initially reported as a person missing in the mountains...and missing in a certain designated area of the mountains. Dan was rather certain he knew a general area where she planned to hike. That correctly was the focus of the search.

We don’t know what is “all in a days work” under those circumstances. Were they even considering that this could be a criminal matter...as Dan now asserts? They probably checked to see if she’d returned to the van...but beyond that...the only details Dan has provided about the search are confined to the mountain search.

So what has accepted media told us about activity at the Van? What is the first thing we learned about activity at the van?

“Accepted media reports’ provided the testimony of a witness who reported someone in the van for several hours days after Esther is reported missing. She took a picture to confirm what she saw. She claims she was dismissed by the local police who then provided media with a very bizarre explanation. They did not deny that someone was in the van. They said it was a ‘forensic examiner’ laying across the bed...for several hours..having arrived in a stealthy unmarked car!

This doesn’t appear to be “ all in a (competent) days work” as most police departments would describe it.

Later, the same accepted media reports show a further delay in impounding the van and mention that it was searched at police headquarters, not in the parking lot. So before they searched the van, they let someone sleep there for a few hours...or lay on the bed disturbing fibers etc?

Dan says there are things we don’t know that lead him to believe it’s a criminal matter. Maybe it’s a broken lock...maybe that stranger in the van...any of this could be part of what he’s referring to.

We are speculating.

Everything about this case is speculation. If we rule speculation out...what’s left? At this point, there’s no hard evidence that Esther had an accident...no evidence she committed suicide...no evidence that she ran off...and no evidence that there was a criminal act behind her disappearance. So one theory is as good or bad as the next.

 

[stmarysmead]

Practical Methods for Processing a Vehicle

This is a portion of an article about forensic processing of a vehicle. It starts with describing the extensive photographs that should be taken. Flashes are great but wouldn’t daylight be best? Consider how meticulous this process is supposed to be. An interior light at night would certainly be a poor choice. Shadows and darkness exist that could cause evidence to be lost,

Snip

“With the photographs completed an organized search will then need to be done. The purpose of the organized search is to find items of evidence not observed during the initial examination. The vehicle can be divided into sections (similar to an organized zone search pattern) for the search. It should make no difference what area of the vehicle the investigator chooses to start with, only that the investigator get into a habit to always consistently start from the same area each time he-she processes a vehicle.

The investigator or technician needs to practice on the side of caution when searching under seats and hard to see areas. He-she does not want to stick there hands under a seat and risk being punctured by a contaminated needle or other item. A small mirror and flash light will allow the investigator to check these areas without the risk of exposures or injuries.

If other items of evidence are located during the search, the investigator or technician can then place a series of evidence marking stands alongside the items of evidence to take a series of photographs depicting the location and relationship of any evidence found. If the search for pathways and directions of projectiles becomes the task at hand, the investigator can insert string or dowel rods to track the flight paths. A note to remember is that two (2) points of reference are needed to determine the flight paths of a projectile. The primary purpose of using the string or dowel rods is to illustrate and document the directions of the projectiles for flight paths to assist in locating the projectile.

The next step in the process would be the collection of evidence. The investigator or technician will usually want to start with the most fragile evidence. Evidence becomes fragile by the passing of time, exposure to the elements or environment, any movement, and of course improper handling. The most fragile of the evidence types would be any trace evidence aboard. With the new developments in DNA an area to consider would be swabbing samples of the steering wheel, inside door handle and of course the driver's seat belt buckle.

Last but not least would come the mechanical processing for any latent fingerprints. The investigator or technician should search the common sense areas working a border of approximately 6 inches wide around the sides, hood, trunk, roof support post, and windows of the exterior of the vehicle. Common sense would also alert to the areas of the fenders surrounding the wheel weld if a tire is missing. For the interior, the door handles rear view mirror, seat belt buckles, windows, and any other nonporous item will need to be checked. An organized system in place allows a tedious task to be more simple and mistake free.

Safe processing!!!”

So is this “forensic investigator” that police claim to have been processing the motorvan, really following ‘best practices’...or was this a cover story told for some unknown reason?

 

[stmarysmead]

'I saw someone sleeping in the back of the caravan car and I couldn't believe it,' Lucia told MailOnline.

'Everyone in Benasque knows about the missing English girl. And I knew that was her van. It is the only camping car that is British.

'I first saw the light on when I took my dog out at about 7pm. It seemed a bit strange.

'Then I took the dog out again at about 10pm and I took a closer look. I could see someone asleep in the back of the van. They were lying down. They were not moving. They were lying quite still.

+11
Lucia showed MailOnline the photo on her phone (above) to prove when it was taken

'I thought that was very strange so I took a photo with my phone. And when I got home I called the Guardia Civil [Spanish paramilitary police].

'I told them I had seen someone sleeping in the back of the English girl's caravan.

'But they weren't interested.

snip


When Spanish Police were contacted about the presence of someone in Esther's van at 10pm on December 2, they said it was one of their forensic officers. They have since declined to comment.

The van was impounded by the Guardia Civil three days after the sighting on December 5 and is parked in the police compound for forensic examination.

 

[stmarysmead]

So, according to the official POLICE explanation, a FORENSIC officer was doing a forensic examination after sunset in artificial light in the van. It continued for over three hours...now it’s really dark...and then necessitates him lying down on the bed and, according to the witness.. not moving.

Quite a story.

Here’s more detail on the responsibilities of a forensic officer:

Job Responsibilities for a Forensic Science Technician

The manner of collection is vitally important as is preservation of evidence. Avoiding contamination by wearing gloves, taking care how you interact with anything that might contain a fragment of DNA. Anything found needs to be bagged and tagged. Drawings specific to where evidence is found are made on the scene along with photographs. All of this is crucial in order to provide a chain of custody...especially if this officer must appear in court.

Now the police could have said.. “We see no one in this photo in the van.” But they collaborated what the woman saw. Someone was in the van.

After just this bit of reading as to what the proper job of a forensic officer SHOULD be...I do question why this would be undertaken after dark under artificial light. I question if any such forensic exam could ever be considered professionally acceptable?

If the police purposely lied, I wonder if they had an investigative purpose for doing so.

 

[PeggyHenry]

It just doesn’t make sense. Either it was someone connected to the Spanish police.. or it wasn’t. If it wasn’t then I would have thought they’d have been very interested in the woman’s report. If it was then were they lying in wait to see if anyone returned to the van? Either way .. seems too odd.
Does anyone think there is a logical explanation for this?

 

[RickshawFan]

Spend some time on the Jon Benet thread.

Snipped for focus...

The thing is, Jon Benet didn't go missing on a solo hike risk hike in November at altitude outside in the mountains with little food during a lockdown. Nor is La Benasque a ritzy, glamorous, wealthy community. Dingley is not a child.
Local LE and SAR have spoken to the very high odds that this was an accident. Their position comes from being very experienced with the terrain and backcountry circumstances. Backcountry accidents happen many times a year in this area.
There is no basis for questioning LE competence, experience, or judgment in this case. And no basis, IMO, for giving them a job description for a "forensic officer" in some foreign jurisdiction or other and then chiding them for failing to live up to the demands of the job.
IMO

 

[PeggyHenry]

It could have been an accident but there are also some persuasive factors that it may not have been IMO:

Local LE have been reported as stating they think it could have been voluntary disappearance
Local LE have been reported as saying they don’t think she’s on the mountain
DC has been quite insistent that she was unlikely to have had an accident and thinks there’s a third party involvement
There was no trace of her in the early searches
They opened a criminal investigation for some reason ( I’d be intrigued to know on what date)

if it was an accident then I think perhaps she had gone off the planned track (although the SAR did a search of 18 km squared).

Initially when Esther was reported as missing I guess the police did visit her van. But I can’t think that at that stage there would be any motivation to do a thorough forensics examination. It was more about SAR as time was of the essence.

when the dog Walker spotted someone in the van and it was impounded 3 days later, a forensic exam was carried out. It seems one thing led to the other. I m now wondering on what date they opened a criminal investigation... or have we made too much of the ‘criminal investigation’ aspect .. was that just a formality?

 

[stmarysmead]

Snipped for focus...

The thing is, Jon Benet didn't go missing on a solo hike risk hike in November at altitude outside in the mountains with little food during a lockdown. Nor is La Benasque a ritzy, glamorous, wealthy community. Dingley is not a child.
Local LE and SAR have spoken to the very high odds that this was an accident. Their position comes from being very experienced with the terrain and backcountry circumstances. Backcountry accidents happen many times a year in this area.
There is no basis for questioning LE competence, experience, or judgment in this case. And no basis, IMO, for giving them a job description for a "forensic officer" in some foreign jurisdiction or other and then chiding them for failing to live up to the demands of the job.
IMO

Because of the intensity and efficiency of the search, some LE have also opined that they believe she is ‘not in the mountains.’ Dan has embraced the idea of a criminal situation as well. Although personally, I would agree that an accident is most probable, after Dan’s very moving last communication, IMO there is very little harm in testing the theory here.

“Civil Guard spokesmen in the provincial capital Huesca and the national force HQ in Madrid, asked about what other work is being done to unravel the mystery of what has happened to Esther, will only say: 'All options are being considered. None have been ruled out.”

One odd unexplained detail is this “person in the camper.” Mistakes are made in every profession...and it does not matter the wealth of the community or the age of the missing person. More at issue is the experience of the LE in dealing with violent crime.

However I take issue, not with the job they have done, but with the veracity of the explanation they gave to the sighting of someone sleeping in the van. It simply is ludicrous that a forensic examination would be done at night in artificial light with the “forensic officer” lying still across abed, seemingly sleeping.

Some jobs may differ in ‘foreign jurisdictions” or cultures, but protocols for forensics certainly do not. The evidence is destroyed if these protocols are not followed. It’s a very intense and specific profession. Like many professions that are based in science, there is very little latitude. I have experienced medical treatment while traveling several times. The protocols for handling items to be tested, for example, are not culturally diverse. It’s science, not culinary arts.

However,I prefer to believe in the competency of this police department, therefore I don’t believe this explanation. It’s either one way or the other.

I believe that this odd incident was given this silly cover story for an important reason. IMO LE could not deny that someone was in the van but did not want it to be public knowledge.

I read on one article last night (Ill search for link) that Dan had provided LE a van key.

Pictured: Missing British hiker Esther Dingley's Fiat camper van | Daily Mail Online

“Esther's partner Daniel Colegate is understood to have handed over keys to vehicle they own when he traveled to Spain after reporting her missing.”

That would answer my question...the van was locked and operative. So if someone was in the van sleeping that night, and it wasn’t LE...did they have Esther’s key?

Dan says there are valid reasons to suspect a crime. Is this who;e strange scenario one of them? So many excellent posters on this thread... I certainly would appreciate alternative explanations.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Because of the intensity and efficiency of the search, some LE have also opined that they believe she is ‘not in the mountains.’ Dan has embraced the idea of a criminal situation as well. Although personally, I would agree that an accident is most probable, after Dan’s very moving last communication, IMO there is very little harm in testing the theory here.

“Civil Guard spokesmen in the provincial capital Huesca and the national force HQ in Madrid, asked about what other work is being done to unravel the mystery of what has happened to Esther, will only say: 'All options are being considered. None have been ruled out.”

One odd unexplained detail is this “person in the camper.” Mistakes are made in every profession...and it does not matter the wealth of the community or the age of the missing person. More at issue is the experience of the LE in dealing with violent crime.

However I take issue, not with the job they have done, but with the veracity of the explanation they gave to the sighting of someone sleeping in the van. It simply is ludicrous that a forensic examination would be done at night in artificial light with the “forensic officer” lying still across abed, seemingly sleeping.

Some jobs may differ in ‘foreign jurisdictions” or cultures, but protocols for forensics certainly do not. The evidence is destroyed if these protocols are not followed. It’s a very intense and specific profession. Like many professions that are based in science, there is very little latitude. I have experienced medical treatment while traveling several times. The protocols for handling items to be tested, for example, are not culturally diverse. It’s science, not culinary arts.

However,I prefer to believe in the competency of this police department, therefore I don’t believe this explanation. It’s either one way or the other.

I believe that this odd incident was given this silly cover story for an important reason. IMO LE could not deny that someone was in the van but did not want it to be public knowledge.

I read on one article last night (Ill search for link) that Dan had provided LE a van key.

Pictured: Missing British hiker Esther Dingley's Fiat camper van | Daily Mail Online

“Esther's partner Daniel Colegate is understood to have handed over keys to vehicle they own when he traveled to Spain after reporting her missing.”

That would answer my question...the van was locked and operative. So if someone was in the van sleeping that night, did they have Esther’s key?

Dan says there are valid reasons to suspect a crime. Is this who;e strange scenario one of them? So many excellent posters on this thread... I certainly would appreciate alternative explanations.

One point to note is that Spanish working hours are v different from UK. I have lived in Spain myself and they usually still take a few hours break at lunch, then work until 8pm at night. This may explain why an officer was working at that time.

 

[tarabull]

Just thinking out loud....

It seems the dog walker never mentioned any additional vehicle(s) besides the camper van (I don't see a vehicle in the pic) but apparently she did note Everyone in Benasque knows about the missing English girl. And I knew that was her van. It is the only camping car that is British.

And yet, also snipped...
Officers ruled out the van sighting, claiming it was a plain clothed forensic officer – working late at night without protective clothing and driving an unmarked vehicle.

 

[touch]

I don't think that picture shows the bed at all. The bright white area looks more like the dining table to me.
There's lots of pictures of their van on this page: Our Motorhome | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel and this image shows the dining table area.

On the media image which claims to show a person lying on the bed, you can see the bright surface extends further to the left than the tall cupboard visible on the left. If it was the bed, it would be behind the cupboard.
Also, you can see the vertical stripes of the dining chairs behind the bright surface, the bed area doesn't have these vertical stripes.

 

[stmarysmead]

I don't think that picture shows the bed at all. The bright white area looks more like the dining table to me.
There's lots of pictures of their van on this page: Our Motorhome | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel and this image shows the dining table area.

On the media image which claims to show a person lying on the bed, you can see the bright surface extends further to the left than the tall cupboard visible on the left. If it was the bed, it would be behind the cupboard.
Also, you can see the vertical stripes of the dining chairs behind the bright surface, the bed area doesn't have these vertical stripes.

Good catch! I think I see what you mean. If the striped area in the middle of the right hand side of the picture is a chair...then I can see what might be someone stretched out (head to left) behind that...in what would be the correct position...that our van owners on here described.

To another point, it was past ten o’clock when the picture was taken by the concerned passerby. The person in the van had already been there at least three hours and past 8pm. If he’s processing forensic evidence with only artificial light...any ideas on what that might be?

And why would LE feel they had to explain that this forensic officer was “without protective clothing.” IMO, that makes the point that they KNEW a forensic officer SHOULD HAVE BEEN in protective clothing. They are not denying someone is there, nor that they are not dressed as would be required by scientific protocol.

I still find this really odd.

If the van was locked and Dan provided his keys to LE, then it could be even more significant if that was NOT LE in the van that night. Because if someone had Esther’s keys then, in some fashion, they had an interaction with Esther.

 

[RedHaus]

Good catch! I think I see what you mean. If the striped area in the middle of the right hand side of the picture is a chair...then I can see what might be someone stretched out (head to left) behind that...in what would be the correct position...that our van owners on here described.

BBM, snipped for focus

So FWIW, here again is my "little man" picture depicting how the bed in the back of the van was used by DC and ED --- head to far right, feet to far left. There is more information up thread when several of us examined the layout of their current van (third one in 6 years) against whatever we might see in the dog walker's photo.

 

[stmarysmead]

BBM, snipped for focus

So FWIW, here again is my "little man" picture depicting how the bed in the back of the van was used by DC and ED --- head to far right, feet to far left. There is more information up thread when several of us examined the layout of their current van (third one in 6 years) against whatever we might see in the dog walker's photo. View attachment 283804

Redhaus, what are your thoughts? I was hoping you’d post again. Could the brown spot almost to the top of the window line...be the brown hair? You are a much better judge than I.

 

[RedHaus]

Redhaus, what are your thoughts? I was hoping you’d post again. Could the brown spot almost to the top of the window line...be the brown hair? You are a much better judge than I.

Very kind of you, @stmarysmead. I have been reluctant to weigh in further on this piece of the puzzle since there may not be much more to consider. But I do think this is an important event in this case - on 02/12/2020. What was going on in the motorhome ten days after ED was last seen by the skier and heard from by DC?

THOUGHTS
Here are my considerations after combing over the facts and images tonight, IMO (reported facts and sources are below):

• I do believe the dog walker witness and the LE - there is no reason to disbelieve their accounts reported to the media; and DC and LBT Global appear satisfied.
  • But... what was going on at 7pm ('lights on') and what was going on at 10pm ('figure laying down') in the motorhome could be two separate events / people
  • And... what if an officer was in the motorhome at 7pm but at 10pm another person(s) was in the motorhome (perhaps attracted to a light left on)?
  • And... what if an officer was in the motorhome at 7pm but at 10pm the light was on, pillows were at odd angles, and it only appears to be a figure on the bed?

• From what has been reported I also believe if there was someone in the motorhome on 2/12 it was not DC.
  • But... if there was a person(s) in the motorhome they would likely have known it was in the obscure location - on the side of a large building with a car park
  • So... what if in a fugue state the person(s) in the motorhome at 10pm was ED, as we know people in dissociative fugue tend to go to familiar places?
  • Or... what if ED had let other people - friends she made while hiking - stay in the motorhome when she was not using it (although that seems far-fetched)?

• With close inspection of the infamous photo - playing with size, color, contrast, clarity, etc. - I actually wonder if the photo shows two people in the motorhome.
  • First... here are pictures of ED in the motorhome (their current Fiat model) relaxing on the bed in the back (5), along with my "little man" image for reference
    • note the skylight in one of them - this could have put some very bright light on the one face I highlight in the image below
    • note the Pooh Bear stuffed animals scattered behind ED - could these have been scattered about the bed and caused strange images in night light? Click on images to enlarge
  • Next... here is the dog walker's image with my notations to show what I see - along with my spouse who I enlisted for 'fresh' eyes tonight...
    • To me there are two possible figures, or none at all!:
      1. a man's face sitting up on the left side, with a light reflecting on the front of his face, possibly through the skylight
      2. a woman's or child's face (or smaller man) in the center of the bed, lying on his/her right side with a white comforter pulled up
      3. or...while the dog walker might have seen lights on in the motorhome at 7pm, maybe at 10pm there was no one there at all and light has tricked us Click on image to enlarge

• All that said, one key question remains, IMO: Why did LE impound the motorhome three days after the dog walker reported her observation on 2/12?

• Did LE find something on 2/12 - or need to look more closely at something - or did they just want to protect the motorhome from looters and vandals?
• And if LE did find something, was it related to a voluntary disappearance (with help from someone), suicide or involuntary disappearance (third party)?
• Was Captain Jean-Marc Bordinaro musings about ED possibly disappearing voluntarily (reported by 12/12) at all related to what was found on 2/12?

REPORTED FACTS
Reported 09/12/2020:

"A dog walker... said she first saw the light on in the van... at about 7pm on December 2... However, she became increasingly concerned when saw the figure laying down in the back when she popped out a second time at 10pm. [She] said she was 'fobbed off' when she called the Spanish police [that night]." (1)

"The van was impounded by the Guardia Civil three days after the sighting on December 5 and is parked in the police compound for forensic examination." (1)

"Gendarme Capitaine Jean-Marc Bordinaro, who is leading the French part of the Franco-Spanish investigation... 'Mr Colegate... stayed in a hotel in Spain'" (1)​

Reported 10/12/2020:

"Matt Searle [of LBT Global]:... ‘Daniel and Esther’s family are extremely interested to find out who was inside the camper with the lights on. We are investigating the sighting of someone inside the van on 2 December. They are asking the Guardia Civil to investigate who it was as well.’" (2)​

"Officers... claiming it was a plain clothed forensic officer – working late at night without protective clothing and driving an unmarked vehicle." (2)​

"Police have confirmed that the light seen in the campervan was due to their presence." (3)​

Reported 12/12/2020:

"Speaking to MailOnline earlier in the week, [Captain Jean-Marc] Bordinaro ruled out the possibility that Ms Dingley suffered an accident and hinted at the voluntary act theory... ‘It does not seem probable that Esther suffered an accident, and it is not credible that she was eaten by a bear or that she has fallen into a lake,' he said. ‘We believe that her disappearance is either the result of a voluntary act, or as a result of someone else’s actions[...]. It appears that their (Dingley and Colegate's) lives together were not as happy as the images posted on social media suggest.'" (6)
​

Reported 14/12/2020:

"Much has been made of reports of a light seen in the motorhome. LBT Global has had it confirmed this was due to police activity." (4)​

SOURCES
(1) Dog walker saw someone asleep in Brit hiker Esther Dingley's camper van TEN DAYS after she vanished | Daily Mail Online
(2) Search for Esther Dingley: Spanish police say it's 'impossible' and all but give up | Daily Mail Online
(3) Esther & Dan
(4) https://www.lbt.global/media-releases
(5) Living In A Motorhome With 5 Dogs – What It’s Really Like | Esther & Dan - Adventuring Together - Life, Love, Health & Travel
(6) Esther Dingley: Police believe missing British hiker went missing voluntarily | Daily Mail Online