Found Deceased Spain - Julen Rosello, 2, fell into narrow and deep borehole, Totalán, 13 Jan 2019

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MsFacetious said:
Yes, until the earth caved in and Julen went silent.

The adult cousin that was present yelled "the boy, the boy!" when Julen started running. I presume her child was the other toddler there. (I linked the article about this I think yesterday?)

I will fully admit that I'm defensive of these parents, when normally I'm not. They have already lost 2 children and are now losing their final one. I feel like it's simply not right to question them right now.

If Julen wasn't found in the well, that would be different. Right now I'm giving them the benefit that they wanted to hold onto their only remaining living child. This comes from having a best friend who lost a child.
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I agree, and I never even thought to question whether Julen was in the well or not! I see no reason to doubt it at all.
 
MsFacetious said:
I will fully admit that I'm defensive of these parents, when normally I'm not. They have already lost 2 children and are now losing their final one. I feel like it's simply not right to question them right now.

If Julen wasn't found in the well, that would be different. Right now I'm giving them the benefit that they wanted to hold onto their only remaining living child. This comes from having a best friend who lost a child.
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Just to be clear I've not accused the parents of anything - that would be very cruel in this situation. I'm just questioning things, again perhaps the story is a bit unclear to me due to translation issues.

I would be interested to know exactly why his mum phoned in sick to work that day.
 
MsFacetious said:
Already placed the 42 meters of tube that had been stuck yesterday in the tunnel created to reach # Julen

@EstebanRdM on Twitter


Uh, it's a little late isn't it?

Spain’s Civil Protection has activated our @CopernicusEMS #RapidMappingTeam to produce emergency maps to support the operations aiming to rescue #Julen , a 2-year boy which has fallen into a 100-deep well in #Totalán (in the province of Malaga in southern Spain)

Copernicus EU on Twitter
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MsFacetious said:
Already placed the 42 meters of tube that had been stuck yesterday in the tunnel created to reach # Julen

@EstebanRdM on Twitter


Uh, it's a little late isn't it?

Spain’s Civil Protection has activated our @CopernicusEMS #RapidMappingTeam to produce emergency maps to support the operations aiming to rescue #Julen , a 2-year boy which has fallen into a 100-deep well in #Totalán (in the province of Malaga in southern Spain)

Copernicus EU on Twitter
Click to expand...



EMS - Rapid Mapping products

This service consists of the on-demand and fast provision (hours-days) of geospatial information. This information supports emergency management activities immediately following an emergency event. The service is based on the acquisition, processing and analysis, in rapid mode, of satellite imagery and other geospatial raster and vector data sources. The products are standardised following a set of parameters the user can choose when requesting the service.

The user can choose between three different map types (Reference, Delineation, Grading) and two prodution modes (service levels). The maps can be requested individually (i.e. Delineation map only) or in combination with other map types (i.e. Delineation and Grading). Maps can be requested in service level 1 (SL1) or service level 5 (SL5). In the case of service level 1 (SL1), maps are provided within some hours after delivery and quality approval of imagery (9h for Reference maps, 12h for Delineation and Grading maps). For service level 5 (SL5), all map types are typically provided within five working days (SL5) (the delivery time of SL5 can be adapted to user needs). Updates of the initial map may be requested as Monitoring maps.

The product delivery package of Rapid Mapping contains a series of ready to print maps with different resolutions and formats and a vector data package. The Product User Manual gives a detailed overview of the product characteristics and of the vector package in particular.

Reference maps provide a quick updated knowledge on the territory and assets using data prior to the disaster. The content consists of selected topographic features on the affected area, in particular exposed assets and other available information that can assist the users in their specific crisis management tasks. A reference map is normally based on a pre-event image captured as close as possible prior to the event.

Taken from www.copernicus.eu


It seems to be they are surface maps only but the interesting part is that they are able to access pre-event images.
 
Ironside said:
Whilst I believe the emergency services are right to be trying to rescue Julen based on what they were told part of me still thinks there is a chance this could be a hoax or there could be something sinister going on. Could he have been taken when nobody was looking for example?

It could be due to a lack of clarity due to translation issues but I still have a niggling doubt in the back of my mind that all may not be what it seems. I'm more than happy to be corrected if anyone can confirm what adults witnessed the incident.
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I must admit that something about this whole scenario hasn't sat well with me since it began. But then I just wonder if I have spent too much time on WS lately because it certainly makes you question everything! I am trying to give the parents the benefit of the doubt until anything concrete suggests otherwise as they have already been through so much. But I do know how you feel for sure.
 
scandinavian girl said:
I just had a thought watching the spanish chat and someone talked about perros, (dogs). Have they used any dogs to sniff the area to indicate a living child or is he totally out of reach even for a trained dog nose.
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A properly trained cadaver dog could tell if he was there and deceased. An air scent dog wouldn't be much use other than to confirm his trail ends in the hole. I agree they should have been used early on - it may have saved a lot of emotional turmoil and all this delicate work they are doing.
 
scandinavian girl said:
I just had a thought watching the spanish chat and someone talked about perros, (dogs). Have they used any dogs to sniff the area to indicate a living child or is he totally out of reach even for a trained dog nose.
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yes, i asked this a few pages back, youd think a cadaver dog could get a scent or not, that way at least they would have some idea of the situation, and prepare everyone, maybe its too deep but with their sensitive noses ?
 
Elgana said:
I must admit that something about this whole scenario hasn't sat well with me since it began. But then I just wonder if I have spent too much time on WS lately because it certainly makes you question everything! I am trying to give the parents the benefit of the doubt until anything concrete suggests otherwise as they have already been through so much. But I do know how you feel for sure.
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It seems impossible that a 2yr old could fall down a 25cm hole. Not to mention the fact that he didnt get stuck on the way down. Then there is the plug of earth above him which appears compacted. I think given the circumstances it is natural to question the event but I see no reason to disbelieve the parents and other adults present at the time. It was just 8min between the last photo of Julen being taken and the call to emergency services. Freak accidents do happen. My heart goes out to the family.
 
On Monday, rescuers lowered a small robot into the hole. It recovered a bag of candy and a plastic cup the boy had been holding when he fell, but it was not able to capture any videos or sounds of the child.

Two days later, they received more grisly evidence that the boy is somewhere in the hole after pulling up some of his hair, according to the network Euronews. DNA tests confirmed that the hair belongs to Julen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ant-reach-him-his-parents-no-longer-hear-him/
 
If Julen has managed to beat all the odds & survive for this long, would it be possible to hear/ communicate with him through the 4m cross tunnel they are working on next, or in some stages of the dig across it? (Unless he is in such a state that he can no longer vocalize)
 
Violet77 said:
If Julen has managed to beat all the odds & survive for this long, would it be possible to hear/ communicate with him through the 4m cross tunnel they are working on next, or in some stages of the dig across it? (Unless he is in such a state that he can no longer vocalize)
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I think so. Once the horizontal tunnel has been drifted and shored up, they will probably look about with a camera and maybe microphone. There's no guarantee that Julen will be at the same level. It's possible he could be further down, perhaps in that 15 metre breach.

This is just agonising.
 
Ironside said:
Do we know for certain who was there and how many adults actually witnessed the incident? I've seen mention of a cousin witnessing it but then in another article (link below) it mentioned a one and a half year old cousin being there - a baby can hardly give a witness statement.

Search continues for toddler thought to have fallen into 100-meter-deep borehole

Whilst I believe the emergency services are right to be trying to rescue Julen based on what they were told part of me still thinks there is a chance this could be a hoax or there could be something sinister going on. Could he have been taken when nobody was looking for example?

It could be due to a lack of clarity due to translation issues but I still have a niggling doubt in the back of my mind that all may not be what it seems. I'm more than happy to be corrected if anyone can confirm what adults witnessed the incident.
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They found his candy bag and cup and more importantly some hair of his in there and the lady cousin I think she is, saw him start to run and shouted him and dad turned around to see him and Dad started to chase after him but he just disappeared down the hole
It’s all covered on here with the MSM articles
 
SunVenus said:
I think so. Once the horizontal tunnel has been drifted and shored up, they will probably look about with a camera and maybe microphone. There's no guarantee that Julen will be at the same level. It's possible he could be further down, perhaps in that 15 metre breach.

This is just agonising.
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Dear SunVenus,

I am so deeply thankful that Julen's parents have the support of the community and everyone else there who are embracing them with love and support. I know we all feel this way.

If we feel this wait agonizing, I cannot imagine how they are feeling. I hope they know how many prayers with hope are with them.

God bless these miners. What an amazingly dedicated and compassionate group they truly are!

My prayers go out to all of the workers and helpers there who have tirelessly been working for a good outcome. Such tremendous compassion and hope there. It is heart-lifting, to say the least.
 
SunVenus said:
I think so. Once the horizontal tunnel has been drifted and shored up, they will probably look about with a camera and maybe microphone. There's no guarantee that Julen will be at the same level. It's possible he could be further down, perhaps in that 15 metre breach.

This is just agonising.
Click to expand...

Iirc they were planning to dig about a meter over to the well and then drill a smaller hole the rest of the way through which they would move a camera to see if Julen is at that height.
 
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