Spartanburg, SC Sheriff to women...ARM YOURSELVES...

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For 20 years, I lived in a beach community within the city of Los Angeles. Very high crime for the first decade or so, particularly because of the gang activity about a quarter mile from my house.

The houses in my neighborhood were made of thin, wood frames covered only with stucco, and the lots were only 40' wide. Even if you shot an assailant, depending on the strength of the gun, you'd have no way of preventing that shot from passing through the assailant and into your neighbor 10 or 15 feet beyond.

The United States is simply too crowded to pretend this is the Wild West and we should each protect ourselves by wearing six-shooters.

Nova,

Your argument presupposes that anyone shooting at an assailant is not going to think first, is not going to consider the proximity of innocent bystanders, and I think you are absolutely wrong.

I have spent many a year on a number of deer leases, camping out with different hunters, and not once in all those years have I ever felt in danger from someone negligently pointing a gun in my direction or handling a gun in any other unsafe manner. I don't hunt with those who drink either.

It seems to me that any hysteria regarding guns rests with those who have had no experience in either the safe handling or firing of guns. This frenzied, anti-gun rhetoric is just that, frenzied, anti-gun rhetoric infused with classic fear of the unknown.

"Since 1991, when violent crime peaked, it has decreased 47 percent to a 36-year low. Murder has fallen 51 percent to a 46-year low.2 At the same time, the number of guns that Americans own has risen by about 90 million. Predictions by gun control supporters, that increasing the number of guns, particularly handguns and so-called "assault weapons," would cause crime to increase, have been proven profoundly lacking in clairvoyance.4...

...Studies for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the National Institutes of Justice, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that gun control reduces crime."
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007
 
Nova,

~ ~ snipped ~~

"Since 1991, when violent crime peaked, it has decreased 47 percent to a 36-year low. Murder has fallen 51 percent to a 46-year low.2 At the same time, the number of guns that Americans own has risen by about 90 million. Predictions by gun control supporters, that increasing the number of guns, particularly handguns and so-called "assault weapons," would cause crime to increase, have been proven profoundly lacking in clairvoyance.4...

...Studies for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the National Institutes of Justice, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that gun control reduces crime."
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007

Indeed, since the crime rate apparently dropped drastically AS the number of gun holders increased, a good case can be made that the two are intrinsically intertwined.

It certainly is true in the state of Vermont, which has the highest gun-possession in the nation along with the lowest armed crime rate.

It is an interesting psychological study to see people say things like not wanting grandchildren to get accidentally shot by a 70 year old man defending himself from a gang of rapists and possible murderers, but NOT feel concern that their grandchildren might BE THE NEXT VICTIM of those same rapists/ murderers. Because if that poor man has no choice but to be a victim, those monsters are coming for the grandchildren next and they too will have no defense. No one will. The bad guys simply take over the world, knowing everyone is defenseless and easy prey.
 
Indeed, since the crime rate apparently dropped drastically AS the number of gun holders increased, a good case can be made that the two are intrinsically intertwined.

It certainly is true in the state of Vermont, which has the highest gun-possession in the nation along with the lowest armed crime rate.

It is an interesting psychological study to see people say things like not wanting grandchildren to get accidentally shot by a 70 year old man defending himself from a gang of rapists and possible murderers, but NOT feel concern that their grandchildren might BE THE NEXT VICTIM of those same rapists/ murderers. Because if that poor man has no choice but to be a victim, those monsters are coming for the grandchildren next and they too will have no defense. No one will. The bad guys simply take over the world, knowing everyone is defenseless and easy prey.

BBM: Uh huh, as evidenced by the crime statistics from all of those countries with very strict gun control AND out of control violent crime and anarchy in the streets and lawlessness and complete and utter diseregard for human life and/or property and........oh, wait....:crazy:
 
Nova,

Your argument presupposes that anyone shooting at an assailant is not going to think first, is not going to consider the proximity of innocent bystanders, and I think you are absolutely wrong.

You misunderstood me. My point was that in that neighborhood, there was no such thing as a "backstop" for a bullet. The houses are small and close together and are built with very thin walls. (Very moderate climate.)

There's no way someone shooting at an assailant can know where his or her bullet will end up, no matter how much thinking he or she does. (And let's face it, even trained people don't do a lot of thinking in a crisis.)

I have spent many a year on a number of deer leases, camping out with different hunters, and not once in all those years have I ever felt in danger from someone negligently pointing a gun in my direction or handling a gun in any other unsafe manner. I don't hunt with those who drink either.

I think hunters and hunting are very different situations. As long as the species being targeted isn't endangered and the kill is eaten, I don't have a problem with hunting.

But my point is that the majority of Americans no longer live in rural areas, nor do we hunt for food. The use of firearms in crowded cities and suburbs may have all sorts of unintended consequences.

It seems to me that any hysteria regarding guns rests with those who have had no experience in either the safe handling or firing of guns. This frenzied, anti-gun rhetoric is just that, frenzied, anti-gun rhetoric infused with classic fear of the unknown.

For the record, I was born to a family of Westerners who considered gun training a must for all children. So, yeah, I've had training (though it's been decades and I would want to be retrained before I picked up a firearm).

Even the police make mistakes when using guns in an emergency (and they have far more training than any private citizen). I think it's reasonable to assume private citizens will make errors as well.

"Since 1991, when violent crime peaked, it has decreased 47 percent to a 36-year low. Murder has fallen 51 percent to a 46-year low.2 At the same time, the number of guns that Americans own has risen by about 90 million. Predictions by gun control supporters, that increasing the number of guns, particularly handguns and so-called "assault weapons," would cause crime to increase, have been proven profoundly lacking in clairvoyance....

This figure also needs to be correlated with the rapid increase of incarceration rates in most states. Gun ownership may have nothing to do with the decrease in crime.
 
Nova,

Your argument presupposes that anyone shooting at an assailant is not going to think first, is not going to consider the proximity of innocent bystanders, and I think you are absolutely wrong.

I have spent many a year on a number of deer leases, camping out with different hunters, and not once in all those years have I ever felt in danger from someone negligently pointing a gun in my direction or handling a gun in any other unsafe manner. I don't hunt with those who drink either.

It seems to me that any hysteria regarding guns rests with those who have had no experience in either the safe handling or firing of guns. This frenzied, anti-gun rhetoric is just that, frenzied, anti-gun rhetoric infused with classic fear of the unknown.

"Since 1991, when violent crime peaked, it has decreased 47 percent to a 36-year low. Murder has fallen 51 percent to a 46-year low.2 At the same time, the number of guns that Americans own has risen by about 90 million. Predictions by gun control supporters, that increasing the number of guns, particularly handguns and so-called "assault weapons," would cause crime to increase, have been proven profoundly lacking in clairvoyance.4...

...Studies for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the National Institutes of Justice, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that gun control reduces crime."
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007

BBM

With all due respect that is a very naive statement. To say that gun owners are responsible is to deny all of the facts that prove a lot of them aren't. If you looked at my post of articles involving stupid people with guns you'd know that.

Laws in this country are made for the lowest common denominator. I can safely drive faster than 65 mph but a lot can't. So I have to deal with only driving 65 mph. Some people use Sudafed to manufacture Meth and so I'm strictly regulated on how much I can buy even though I only use it for a chronic sinus condition.

I'm not saying get rid of guns altogether, just that legislation isn't bad and that you have to factor in the lowest common denominator when making carry licenses. JMO
 
BBM

With all due respect that is a very naive statement. To say that gun owners are responsible is to deny all of the facts that prove a lot of them aren't. If you looked at my post of articles involving stupid people with guns you'd know that.

Laws in this country are made for the lowest common denominator. I can safely drive faster than 65 mph but a lot can't. So I have to deal with only driving 65 mph. Some people use Sudafed to manufacture Meth and so I'm strictly regulated on how much I can buy even though I only use it for a chronic sinus condition.

I'm not saying get rid of guns altogether, just that legislation isn't bad and that you have to factor in the lowest common denominator when making carry licenses. JMO

Is it naive? If crime is going down while gun ownership is going up I don't see yours and others arguments as having merit.

A report on the outcome of handgun control in the UK. Gun-related crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since the ban was enacted.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3083618&page=1
 
Is it naive? If crime is going down while gun ownership is going up I don't see yours and others arguments as having merit.

A report on the outcome of handgun control in the UK. Gun-related crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since the ban was enacted.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3083618&page=1

You need a better source. John Stossel has a well-earned reputation for manipulating and misrepresenting evidence to reach a desired conclusion. (I'm not blaming you for not knowing this.)

Since private gun ownership was historically low in Britain, it makes no sense to attribute a rise in violent crime to a particular gun control law. The people of Britain weren't generally armed BEFORE the law (and you can see that the amount of guns turned in is quite low relative to the entire population of the islands).

As for crime declining in the U.S., the fact that two things happen simultaneously doesn't prove that one thing caused the other. There are other factors (longer prison sentences, an aging population) that have influenced declining crime rates here in the States.
 
Yeah, public safety is REALLY of a concern to the CCW proponents:



Lawmakers suspend 4-hour training rule for new concealed carry law

Applicants to carry concealed weapons in Wisconsin will no longer have to complete four hours of training, after a Republican-controlled legislative committee voted Monday to do away with the requirement that had been assailed by the National Rifle Association as being too strict.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_dd1f90be-099a-11e1-948f-001cc4c03286.html

It takes 300 hours of training to become a nail technician in the state of WI. But any yahoo can run around with a gun stuffed down his/her pants without any training at all. Yep, this has all been thought out VERY carefully....:furious:
 
Yeah, public safety is REALLY of a concern to the CCW proponents:



Lawmakers suspend 4-hour training rule for new concealed carry law

Applicants to carry concealed weapons in Wisconsin will no longer have to complete four hours of training, after a Republican-controlled legislative committee voted Monday to do away with the requirement that had been assailed by the National Rifle Association as being too strict.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_dd1f90be-099a-11e1-948f-001cc4c03286.html

It takes 300 hours of training to become a nail technician in the state of WI. But any yahoo can run around with a gun stuffed down his/her pants without any training at all. Yep, this has all been thought out VERY carefully....:furious:

Ok, I DO find that horrifying, IF applicants do not have to pass a test.

We require NO training for any yahoo to drive a car, but applicants must pass a test or have licensure in a reciprocal state. Cars are statistically more deadly than guns by FAR!

I will say this about my own personal experience: nearly 2 decades ago and in a different career field, a prisoner was able to access my personal info from a computer where he was allowed to work within the prison. He called me up on the home phone number he had gained (along with my home address) and proceeded to tell me exactly what he intended to do to me as soon as he had the opportunity. In horror I hung up and used my connections to find out who he was and what his record/ circumstances were.

He was a violent repeat sex offender (of COURSE) and furthermore, he had the good fortune to enjoy weekend furloughs out of prison. Niiiice !!! This was a Wednesday and only 3 hours drive time separated us.

At this time, I had never owned a gun and never wanted to. But I also didn't want to die in the way this animal intended. As soon as "it" was out on furlough, "it" would be in a back alley buying an illegal handgun and who knows what other tools of torture. Criminals will ALWAYS. be able to get guns, don't ever doubt it.

A male friend who lived 3 hours away (the other direction) was concerned enough to drive down the very next day with his own handgun AND shotgun and took me out to a range immediately for some training. I cried at having to even TOUCH such a deadly device. But I had no time for a "waiting period" and my life depended entirely on my ability to defend myself. I carried that handgun with me AND slept at night with the shotgun laying in bed WITH ME under the covers. I still remember how terrified I was. And I started packing.......

Because of this incident, I would NEVER be safe at that address again. I was basically forced to pull up stakes and move practically overnight, costing me a great deal financially, career wise, and in personal relationships. I moved nearly 800 miles away and started over. I quit carrying a weapon altogether and rebuilt my life. Thats how dedicated i was to a "no guns lifestyle" society.

It wasn't until years later after an unsuccessful assault on my life (in which the perp plead guilty rather than go to trial) and a very mentally ill woman contracted a hit on me that I took carry concealed training (7 days plus target range experience) from a high ranking special forces trainer. I broke down and cried in defeat before i fired the first shot. Surprisingly, my shot was excellent, highest in the class, and I was asked to join a competitive target shooting team (which I did not do).

To this day, I do not like carrying. I do it because I finally accepted the world as it IS, not as the fantasy I wanted it to be. So don't think that all members of the carrying public are just "itching to shoot someone". Nothing could be further from the truth, but this fallacy certainly serves SOME people well in inciting panic and unfounded fears.

Do not even THINK about telling me how I could have "better handled this situation" that altered my life's course and nearly destroyed my children's lives. To do so would be the height of arrogance and narcissism, not to mention complete lack of human empathy. Ask questions if you MUST, but step away from your fantasy lala land before throwing ridiculous alternatives at me. Seriously.
 
Ok, I DO find that horrifying, IF applicants do not have to pass a test.

We require NO training for any yahoo to drive a car, but applicants must pass a test or have licensure in a reciprocal state. Cars are statistically more deadly than guns by FAR!

Can you elaborate on the DETAILS of Wisconsin's law? I know none of us wants to "incite panic" by misrepresenting. :)

The link was provided in the post.

Again, there is NO comparison between cars and guns. Guns are specifically designed and produced with the sole purpose of killing people and/or animals. The difference, and it is a VAST difference, is in intent. The vast majority of the time, when there is a traffice fatality, it is an ACCIDENT. Not so with guns. And the accidental shootings which do result in fatalities could have been completely prevented if there was no gun present in the situation. Guns are not a necessity in today's world. Cars are, unfortunately, a necessity for many in the US. I know this is a "go to" argument for the NRA, but it's really a useless comparison. The two can't realistically be compared. And as for training, not to mention cost? It takes a lot of hours to prepare for a driving test, and last time I checked, about $450 dollars to go through the course.
 
Ok, I DO find that horrifying, IF applicants do not have to pass a test.

We require NO training for any yahoo to drive a car, but applicants must pass a test or have licensure in a reciprocal state. Cars are statistically more deadly than guns by FAR!

I will say this about my own personal experience: nearly 2 decades ago and in a different career field, a prisoner was able to access my personal info from a computer where he was allowed to work within the prison. He called me up on the home phone number he had gained (along with my home address) and proceeded to tell me exactly what he intended to do to me as soon as he had the opportunity. In horror I hung up and used my connections to find out who he was and what his record/ circumstances were.

He was a violent repeat sex offender (of COURSE) and furthermore, he had the good fortune to enjoy weekend furloughs out of prison. Niiiice !!! This was a Wednesday and only 3 hours drive time separated us.

At this time, I had never owned a gun and never wanted to. But I also didn't want to die in the way this animal intended. As soon as "it" was out on furlough, "it" would be in a back alley buying an illegal handgun and who knows what other tools of torture. Criminals will ALWAYS. be able to get guns, don't ever doubt it.

A male friend who lived 3 hours away (the other direction) was concerned enough to drive down the very next day with his own handgun AND shotgun and took me out to a range immediately for some training. I cried at having to even TOUCH such a deadly device. But I had no time for a "waiting period" and my life depended entirely on my ability to defend myself. I carried that handgun with me AND slept at night with the shotgun laying in bed WITH ME under the covers. I still remember how terrified I was. And I started packing.......

Because of this incident, I would NEVER be safe at that address again. I was basically forced to pull up stakes and move practically overnight, costing me a great deal financially, career wise, and in personal relationships. I moved nearly 800 miles away and started over. I quit carrying a weapon altogether and rebuilt my life. Thats how dedicated i was to a "no guns lifestyle" society.

It wasn't until years later after an unsuccessful assault on my life (in which the perp plead guilty rather than go to trial) and a very mentally ill woman contracted a hit on me that I took carry concealed training (7 days plus target range experience) from a high ranking special forces trainer. I broke down and cried in defeat before i fired the first shot. Surprisingly, my shot was excellent, highest in the class, and I was asked to join a competitive target shooting team (which I did not do).

To this day, I do not like carrying. I do it because I finally accepted the world as it IS, not as the fantasy I wanted it to be. So don't think that all members of the carrying public are just "itching to shoot someone". Nothing could be further from the truth, but this fallacy certainly serves SOME people well in inciting panic and unfounded fears.

Do not even THINK about telling me how I could have "better handled this situation" that altered my life's course and nearly destroyed my children's lives. To do so would be the height of arrogance and narcissism, not to mention complete lack of human empathy. Ask questions if you MUST, but step away from your fantasy lala land before throwing ridiculous alternatives at me. Seriously.

Bumping.
 
Ok, I DO find that horrifying, IF applicants do not have to pass a test.

We require NO training for any yahoo to drive a car, but applicants must pass a test or have licensure in a reciprocal state. Cars are statistically more deadly than guns by FAR!

I will say this about my own personal experience: nearly 2 decades ago and in a different career field, a prisoner was able to access my personal info from a computer where he was allowed to work within the prison. He called me up on the home phone number he had gained (along with my home address) and proceeded to tell me exactly what he intended to do to me as soon as he had the opportunity. In horror I hung up and used my connections to find out who he was and what his record/ circumstances were.

He was a violent repeat sex offender (of COURSE) and furthermore, he had the good fortune to enjoy weekend furloughs out of prison. Niiiice !!! This was a Wednesday and only 3 hours drive time separated us.

At this time, I had never owned a gun and never wanted to. But I also didn't want to die in the way this animal intended. As soon as "it" was out on furlough, "it" would be in a back alley buying an illegal handgun and who knows what other tools of torture. Criminals will ALWAYS. be able to get guns, don't ever doubt it.

A male friend who lived 3 hours away (the other direction) was concerned enough to drive down the very next day with his own handgun AND shotgun and took me out to a range immediately for some training. I cried at having to even TOUCH such a deadly device. But I had no time for a "waiting period" and my life depended entirely on my ability to defend myself. I carried that handgun with me AND slept at night with the shotgun laying in bed WITH ME under the covers. I still remember how terrified I was. And I started packing.......

Because of this incident, I would NEVER be safe at that address again. I was basically forced to pull up stakes and move practically overnight, costing me a great deal financially, career wise, and in personal relationships. I moved nearly 800 miles away and started over. I quit carrying a weapon altogether and rebuilt my life. Thats how dedicated i was to a "no guns lifestyle" society.

It wasn't until years later after an unsuccessful assault on my life (in which the perp plead guilty rather than go to trial) and a very mentally ill woman contracted a hit on me that I took carry concealed training (7 days plus target range experience) from a high ranking special forces trainer. I broke down and cried in defeat before i fired the first shot. Surprisingly, my shot was excellent, highest in the class, and I was asked to join a competitive target shooting team (which I did not do).

To this day, I do not like carrying. I do it because I finally accepted the world as it IS, not as the fantasy I wanted it to be. So don't think that all members of the carrying public are just "itching to shoot someone". Nothing could be further from the truth, but this fallacy certainly serves SOME people well in inciting panic and unfounded fears.

Do not even THINK about telling me how I could have "better handled this situation" that altered my life's course and nearly destroyed my children's lives. To do so would be the height of arrogance and narcissism, not to mention complete lack of human empathy. Ask questions if you MUST, but step away from your fantasy lala land before throwing ridiculous alternatives at me. Seriously.

And it never occured to you to notify LE? Seriously? :waitasec:
 
And it never occured to you to notify LE? Seriously? :waitasec:

Since this what you must consider to be a "question", I'll answer it as though it was meant to be such. And thank you sooooo much for your kind consideration.....(NOT)

OF COURSE law enforcement was notified immediately.

And due to my position at the State Department, so was every Director of every state agency in my state, along with every school superintendent, along with the senators and legislators. I was informed through "sources" that a senator in DC had informed the President of the United States. This is no joke. At the time, there was important legislation before Congress concerning gun control and I wholeheartedly supported it, both in my professional position AND strong personal conviction.

Back at home in my state, law enforcement quickly moved to gain access to phone records in an attempt to look at which phone was used in which office to make that call to my home phone and then to comb through records to determine which inmates had access to that particular office at that specific time. Then interviews were conducted to identify the specific perpetrator.

Because I had access to certain people and information before all these actions were taken, we pretty much "knew" who he was, but for enforcement action to be taken, there had to be a paper trail and evidence of a crime. So AFTER the necessary evidence was gained, the guilty party was identified with certainty and he was immediately sent to a higher level security prison and his furloughs were rescinded.

Feel better now that you have your "answer"?
 
Since this what you must consider to be a "question", I'll answer it as though it was meant to be such. And thank you sooooo much for your kind consideration.....(NOT)

OF COURSE law enforcement was notified immediately.

And due to my position at the State Department, so was every Director of every state agency in my state, along with every school superintendent, along with the senators and legislators. I was informed through "sources" that a senator in DC had informed the President of the United States. This is no joke. At the time, there was important legislation before Congress concerning gun control and I wholeheartedly supported it, both in my professional position AND strong personal conviction.

Back at home in my state, law enforcement quickly moved to gain access to phone records in an attempt to look at which phone was used in which office to make that call to my home phone and then to comb through records to determine which inmates had access to that particular office at that specific time. Then interviews were conducted to identify the specific perpetrator.

Because I had access to certain people and information before all these actions were taken, we pretty much "knew" who he was, but for enforcement action to be taken, there had to be a paper trail and evidence of a crime. So AFTER the necessary evidence was gained, the guilty party was identified with certainty and he was immediately sent to a higher level security prison and his furloughs were rescinded.

Feel better now that you have your "answer"?

So really, the whole gun thing was completely unnecessary as it turns out. Good to know.
 
Further food for thought:

Even the highest level architects and proponents of gun control laws have "people" who guard them with GUNS.

Think that might be a wee bit duplicitous of them?

They don't want to get their OWN hands dirty with those guns but they sure do want well trained OTHER people doing it FOR them.

Why do they DO this extremely obvious hypocritical thing?

It's very simple: THEY WANT THEIR OWN LIVES PROTECTED, but would like to deny YOU and your loved ones that right.

And while they are selling you on the fraud that "you don't NEED guns to protect yourself", I have never known a single one to NOT use guns for his or her own protection. Talk about not walking the talk.

But, hey, WC Fields did have a point "there's a sucker born every minute". Or is that every second?
 
You misunderstood me. My point was that in that neighborhood, there was no such thing as a "backstop" for a bullet. The houses are small and close together and are built with very thin walls. (Very moderate climate.)

There's no way someone shooting at an assailant can know where his or her bullet will end up, no matter how much thinking he or she does. (And let's face it, even trained people don't do a lot of thinking in a crisis.)

But my point is that the majority of Americans no longer live in rural areas, nor do we hunt for food. The use of firearms in crowded cities and suburbs may have all sorts of unintended consequences.

Even the police make mistakes when using guns in an emergency (and they have far more training than any private citizen). I think it's reasonable to assume private citizens will make errors as well.

This figure also needs to be correlated with the rapid increase of incarceration rates in most states. Gun ownership may have nothing to do with the decrease in crime.

Well apparently I am too old to remember how to multiquote. Tried numerous times to answer you, Nova, but gave up, totally frustrated, and yet I wanted to respond to what you said.

First of all, anyone shooting at an assailant better have a darn good idea of where that bullet is going to go or otherwise they have no business shooting!

Let me ask you something. You said in your former neighborhood, the houses were too close together, the walls too thin to warrant using a firearm for protection, right?

Now I'm going to tell you why you're wrong. First of all, you do know that sky marshalls carry a firearm on planes right, and they may have to be required to use them, right? Airplanes are close quarters, lots of people on board to protect. There's a bullet designed for such a situation., and it's what sky marshalls use. It's called a hollow point. On impact, it expands, and is designed in such a way that it typically does not exit.

Now back to home protection where houses are close, a person can use a firearm with hollow points or a person may be more comfortable in using a shotgun. Shotguns have limited range of up to 50 yards, and honestly that's pushing it. Shot is not going to travel through an exterior wall to the outside, and then into the exterior wall and through the interior wall on the home next door because what shot is are small pellets. They hit anything, and that's pretty much going to stop their forward travel.

I don't live in a rural area, and neither did the majority of hunters I've known over the years, but they all, except one, ate what they shot so people do still hunt for food. The one who didn't knew people who were happy to take what he shot. Hunting is expensive, and there's more to it than just putting something on the table, but that's still a part of it. It's a survival tool and a skill.

Unintended consequences? You are just guessing here, and don't really know. If that was indeed a problem with people with CWP, we would have already heard about it because MSM would be all over it, and LE would be ranting and raving about it. It's fear mongering by people with active imaginations run wild.

As for LE or military for that matter, the truth is some will always be better shooters than others. Same goes with the private sector.

The people who don't care where their bullets go are the same people who either have or likely would commit crimes. They don't give a rat's patooty about a CWP or any laws, and gun control of any sort is not going to take their firearms away.

The possibility for errors exist in anything, and that goes back to MSM. If it was a problem, we'd hear about it, no make that, they'd harp on it incessantly.

As for incarceration being the reason why crime is down, I'm not buying it. We have a revolving door system on crime, and the criminals are back on the streets in no time.
 
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