Spartanburg, SC Sheriff to women...ARM YOURSELVES...

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Actually, in the first instance it sounds like you would have had a much better chance at being protected AND could have assisted LE in capturing a perpetrator if you had called 911. In the second instance, it doesn't matter that there was a car in front of you, you press the gas anyway. The guy wouldn't have been able to keep his balance or been able to persist in trying to get into your car. You could've gone forward, jumped out the passenger side and thrown your keys. This is just as plausible of a scenario as you having been able to locate your gun and use it before he would've just grabbed it out of your hands.

And why on earth would you not travel to see your daughter without bringing a gun? In a million years it never would have crossed my mind when making travel plans that I had to include arming myself on my itinerary???? I know I sound incredulous, but reading some of these posts I truly feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate universe....I know no one who lives in such fear that they feel they should be carrying a deadly weapon.

Just 3 of the many pages of brave women who refused to be the next dead victim.

Woman Shoots Rapist Who Came Back to Rape Her for a Second Time
http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/11/03/woman-shoots-rapist-who-came-back-to-rape-her-for-a-second-time/


Tulsa Woman Shoots Two Would-Be Rapists—in their Heads!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2010/07/17/tulsa-woman-shoots-two-would-be-rapists-in-their-heads/

Why The Constitution Matters: Woman Shoots, Kills Would-Be Rapist

Read more http://hillbuzz.org/2011/05/22/why-the-constitution-matters-woman-shoots-kills-would-be-rapist/
http://hillbuzz.org/2011/05/22/why-the-constitution-matters-woman-shoots-kills-would-be-rapist/
 
BTW, the sound of the lock and load of a shotgun will almost guarantee the flight of most would be robbers/rapists or any other low life who entered your home or property illegally. It's one of the best weapons you can have since in the dark/quiet of night that sound is pretty much unmistakable and speaks volumes to whomever is up to no good. In these cases you almost never even have to pull the trigger to rid yourself of the problem.
 
If I was told by someone in my local LE to arm myself, I would be pissed! I shouldn't have to arm myself. He needs to worry about doing his job, rather than inciting panic.

You do realize that unless you have an officer parked outside your home 24/7, it will take over 11 minutes, in many areas, for an officer to arrive at your home. In almost all cases, a rape would have occurred and the perpetrator gone by the time LEO arrives. Are you okay with that?

"According to a recent article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Atlanta police were the slowest to answer high-priority emergency calls among police departments from seven similar-sized cities. The results were part of a survey of police response times. In Atlanta last year it took, on average, 11 minutes and 12 seconds from the time a high-priority 911 call was received until an Atlanta police officer showed up at the scene. The response times reported by the El Paso (Texas) Police Department were only one second quicker than Atlanta’s, with an average of 11 minutes and 11 seconds.
The Denver Police Department posted a response time of 11 minutes flat. According to the Journal Constitution story, police in Tucson, Ariz., responded, on average, in 10 minutes and 11 seconds."

http://apbweb.com/featured-articles/1188-response-times-city-to-city.html
 
It only makes you an idiot if you buy a gun and automatically assume you are safe. My fear is that people don't realize that's not true. You still need to exercise the same caution as you would normally. You could still be taken by surprise.

And yes, I know to get down when someone starts shooting but in a crowd there will be people who run instead. I'd rather not hit them so I wouldn't be using my gun in that case. That's just training - often you can't spot the shooter when there is so much chaos. It really depends on the area, number of people, etc.

I don't care if everyone has a gun in their house and keeps it there - it's nothing to me if you practice gun safety in your home or shoot your mother by accident. But if you leave your house with it, I want you have more than a one-day course on how to use it.
 
Oh, I beg to differ...he is definitely fearless..or dumb as a wall. I still can't stop shaking my head...I just can't believe he said that crap...and on camera no less. Although hysterical he could very well be. He seems a little 'off' to me at that press conference and I've seen him on television almost daily for going on seven years now. I'm still not sure what crawled up his rear. He's never done anything like this. It's as if he snapped or something. After watching the pc, the first thought that formed in my head was "dam Chuck, take a midol and be quiet dude.' What bothers me is that he's either oblivious, or totally dismissive of the fact that people worship him. That they do, and they do what he tells them to do. First everyone was out buying guns and applying for CWP's...and now the backlash I truly feared is starting..... there may be others but if so, they aren't being reported yet....just this one so far.....


http://www2.wspa.com/news/2011/nov/02/5/spartanburg-county-man-shoots-one-trespasser-ar-2645047/

Spartanburg County Man Shoots Trespasser

The man pointed a shotgun at the two trespassers and told them to stop. One of the men reached into his waist belt, and that frightened the property owner. He fired one shot at the two men, hitting one of them in the upper arm.

Deputies say the pair started to run, when one of them shouted, "Get him." The two then ran towards the property owner, who fired another shot, but missed the men.

Deputies later arrested suspects after they got away.

Officials have identified one of the men as 23-year-old Donald Clinton Piper. He has been charged with trespassing after warning.

The other man is being treated at the hospital for his injuries. He will be booked when he is released.

No charges will be filed against the homeowner. He says he has been having problems with people trying to steal scrap metal.

more at link....


This is going to get ugly...... he needs to get up there to the podium and undo what he did....fast.

This guy shot today will find some crafty southern lawyer who will sue the Sheriff's department and Chuck...for starting the hysteria that he'll say got him shot.

IF it happened the way the guy describes it I have little problem with it. If someone enters your property illegally and has bad intent then I say shoot them. If they are killed then it saves the justice system a trial if the guy using the gun was justified. JMO

I have a problem with this guys story. He shoots the one guy and they both start running away, but decide to come back and "Get him" knowing he has a gun? :waitasec: He says his second shot missed. There could have been someone standing where his bullet landed.

http://www.wyff4.com/news/29665765/detail.html

an interview, in his office, concerning what he said at the press conference

"I'm not for everybody having a weapon, by no means. I don't think some people should be able to procreate, much less have a weapon. I think the good law-abiding citizens that haven't violated the law and want to arm themselves should be able to do so -- as long as they meet the criteria of what state law says."
Wright said, "I've gotten calls from California (to) Colombia, South America. Somebody called me a while ago and told me I was on the front of the United Kingdom paper in Canada."

"It's been crazy,” he said. "I talked to a news reporter in New York, one of about eight, and he didn't understand why people should arm themselves. I said, ‘Let's put it this way -- if you had a little small dog at home and he bit you 20 times, you'd make some arrangements for him not to bite you anymore.’ He said, ‘Well that's true.’ I said, “Well, we had 20 opportunities to make sure this guy didn't rape anybody and we failed to do it."
more at link

OMG will someone put a sock in that boy's mouth?!?!?! Geez-o-flip man, dam

BBM

That's not because people don't have guns. IMO, it's because the justice system is too soft and/or his department can't handle evidence or conduct an investigation properly.

I tried but couldn't find out for sure whether Sheriff is an elected position in Spartanburg. I'm guessing it is and this Sheriff is pandering to the fears of the electorate.

Fear is a very strong weapon. Fear can be used to make countries declare war when it's not necessary, it can be used in ads for cars, it can be used to make people want guns or alarm systems, it can be used to incite hatred of another culture etc. etc. etc...

To quote Genesis (The band) "We fear what we don't understand."

Both my wife and I have concealed carry permits ... and we do. In my opinion, the more concealed carry permits issued, the more non-criminal, trained citizens there will be to protect themselves and the public. I wish everyone in my neighborhood, city, and state qualified for and used a concealed carry permit. Of course, the criminals would have to move somewhere else.

Russell

Assuming everyone is a crack shot every time. Otherwise you have a lot of wounded bystanders. A friend of mine worked the E.R. in Las Angeles and said that the only person who doesn't get hit in a drive by shooting is the intended victim.

Almost everybody thinks they are good enough to shoot and hit a moving target without any stray bullets when they get a carry permit. It's simply not true. I'm sorry for forgetting who posted it but their parents are cops and they stated police are told not to shoot into crowds. Your average gun owner doesn't know that or doesn't care because they think they're Clint Eastwood. JMO

Except the simpler solution to prison overcrowding is to free non-violent offenders, thus making room for those who are truly dangerous. Other forms of punishment/confinement can be devised for forgers and con men. And drug usage should be treated as a medical problem.

You yourself say the Walmart incident might have been worse had the perp had a gun instead of a bat. Yet that is precisely the likely outcome of wholesale permitting to carry concealed weapons. If the bystanders had intended to intervene, there were plenty of objects in that Walmart that would have served against a baseball bat.

On the other hand, shoot outs in Walmarts are a threat to everyone.

In the Walmart scenario if three guys had swooped in they could have stopped it from happening any more. That's simply a case of Bystander Effect, IMO.

Funny you think people who are armed are living in fear. Actually it is quite the opposite, I fear nothing and no one.

Then why do you own a gun?

Here are my thoughts on guns and alarm systems. If somebody wants to kill you an alarm system or a gun isn't going to help you. In the case of an alarm system you'll be dead and they'll be gone by the time the police show up. The alarm system will help nail down your time of death and therefore the investigation into your murder. The best thing an alarm system does for you is the make the burglar move on to a house without one. If someone wants to kill you they can shoot you anywhere. Through a window in your house, while you're walking to your car, at work, when they pull up next to you at a light etc.. A gun won't help one iota in those situations.

Guns are great in the home provided:

You know how to safely use it.

If there is anyone else in the house that you can trust them to not use it on you. That is something a lot of people have found out the hard way.

You have it safely stored, especially if you have kids.

You can get to it and use it before someone gets to you.

If someone owns a gun and they use it against a family member, or their kid shoots themselves or someone else in the family with it, then it's just the consequences of idiocy by the person who is responsible for the gun. I have little sympathy for the gun owner but a lot for the victim. Nobody should live with someone that stupid. Sometimes a Darwin Award is merited for those things.

The biggest problem I see is that they are stolen during burglaries and then there are more illegal guns carried by criminals on the streets.

With a carry permit you need to be sure you can get the gun before the bad guy does. In a carjacking situation if you grab a gun it seems to me that the chances are slim that the bad guy will be shot most of the time. I think it poses a greater threat to the victim because it could be taken away.

If you're grabbed from behind a gun won't help you then, or in any other situation where you don't see it coming a long ways off.

Between 2003-2005 there were 5.9 murders per 100,000 people in the United States. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/oct/13/homicide-rates-country-murder-data That is all types of murders not just gun murders.

Gun Law data is provided by http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...-world_n_807700.html#s222572&title=Australia_

Australia 1.3 (2004) Gun ownership is strictly prohibited unless there are "genuine reasons" such as licensed sport, animal control or employment requirements.

Brazil 30.8 (2003-2005) Brazilians over the age of 25 are allowed to own guns as long as they are registered and kept indoors. The country has the second-highest gun-related death rate after the U.S.

Canada 1.5 (2002-2004) Canada's gun laws are significantly stricter than the neighboring U.S. To acquire a license, applicants must take a safety course, pass a criminal records check and be certified by a firearms officer.

China 2.2 (2004) Chinese civilians are not allowed to own guns, except for hunting and protection from wildlife. Citizens can face the death penalty if caught illegally selling arms.

Czech Republic 2.2 (2004) Czech guns laws are considerably more liberal than the rest of Europe. Applicants must pass a questionnaire on firearms, have no criminal record and show ID proving they are over 21 years old.

Germany 1 (2004) Germany's Federal Weapons Act, enacted in 1972, restricts everything apart from replica guns to adults at least 18 years old, who must pass checks for "trustworthiness, knowledge and adequacy." A firearms ownership license, or Waffenbesitzkarte, must be obtained before a weapon can be purchased.

Italy 1.2 (2004) Italians can have up to three "common" handguns in their home, but if they want to hunt or carry a concealed weapon they must apply for a license.

Japan 0.5 (2205) Japanese licensing requirements are considered a formality -- there is little enforcement of the strict laws. Despite this, gun deaths are among the lowest in the world.

Mexico 10.9 (2004-2006) Strict laws, including criminal record checks, apply for Mexican ownership. However, there are growing concerns that smuggling from the US is undermining these regulations.

Russia 29.7 (2004) Self defense is not a viable excuse for carrying firearms outside the home in Russia. Hand guns and fully automatics are prohibited, but adults with no criminal record can apply for a license for shotguns and air rifles.

The United Kingdom is not included on the global homicide list but here is their law; Brits convicted of a criminal offense cannot handle, possess or shoot a gun. A license is needed for any firearm except low-powered air rifles/pistols. Self-defense is not a valid reason for ownership.

I think the data shows that some countries with strict laws have high murder rates, like Russia, and others with liberal gun ownership access, like Japan, have low murder rates. So why does America have the largest amount of gun related deaths? IMO, we're :chicken: We've been taught fear by the sensationalistic media (If it bleeds it leads). Shoot first and ask questions later.

You're chances of needing a gun, in most situations, is much smaller than the possibility of it ending up in the wrong hands. JMO

If you think you need one then get one, just make sure it doesn't end up in my face because somebody stole it from you.
 
Everyone sees things through their own unique lens. We all have filters based on our life experiences and personalities.

When Marie Antoinette was told how desperately poor and starving her nation's people were with no money to even afford bread, she answered "then let them eat cake".

Her own experience was so far removed from most people's reality that she believed this to be a serious solution for the problem.

Obviously, she had never experienced starvation and poverty. I believe she threw out her ridiculous answer partly in ignorance, partly in arrogance, and partly to avoid the trauma and pain of having to really SEE reality as it really existed.

I am seeing the same dynamic play out here on this thread. Those who have had very real experiences that showed the need for "protection" understand the reality.

Those who have (thankfully) never had their own daughters, sons, or loved ones viciously and senselessly murdered by criminals or criminally ill, keep reality at bay with comments like "if you live in an unsafe area, simply move".

Yeah.......let them eat cake too. Sheesh.
 
Women should arm themselves; we are the "prey". Men don't understand what it feels like to have to be cautious all the time. I'm careful, not careless, to avoid becoming a victim. That's not living in fear, that's living in reality.

My ex BIL told me a LONG time ago and he's a LEO, that I must have a gun and learn how to use it because by the time LE gets involved they are most likely investigating a homicide.

I just attended a Women in Law luncheon to discuss violence against women and domestic violence. Having to dismiss cases and watch perps walk is a HUGE problem. Victims are scared - especially if they know the perp or even more so when he knows where to find THEM. NO witnesses, no case. Statements to police cannot be used because they are testimonial in nature and unless the person testifies in court and can be cross examined, the statements are inadmissible.

Women should not allow themselves to be victims anymore. Protect yourself because the cops will not get there in time.
 
Just out of curiosity, there is a thread here about a 70 year old man out walking who was accosted by 4 young men who tried to rob him, assaulted, and gang raped him.

Is there anyone here who believes he should have simply whipped out his handy cell phone and called 911 at faster-than-light speed and then wait for a miraculous rescue?

Is there anyone here who believes he should have just accepted his fate and then depend on the justice system AFTER the crime to make things right for him again?

If this man were, instead, your daughter, son, mother, daughter, and were KILLED or disabled for life in this attack, would you STILL feel 911 was the best protection?
 
You do realize that unless you have an officer parked outside your home 24/7, it will take over 11 minutes, in many areas, for an officer to arrive at your home. In almost all cases, a rape would have occurred and the perpetrator gone by the time LEO arrives. Are you okay with that?

"According to a recent article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Atlanta police were the slowest to answer high-priority emergency calls among police departments from seven similar-sized cities. The results were part of a survey of police response times. In Atlanta last year it took, on average, 11 minutes and 12 seconds from the time a high-priority 911 call was received until an Atlanta police officer showed up at the scene. The response times reported by the El Paso (Texas) Police Department were only one second quicker than Atlanta
 
Actually, in the first instance it sounds like you would have had a much better chance at being protected AND could have assisted LE in capturing a perpetrator if you had called 911. In the second instance, it doesn't matter that there was a car in front of you, you press the gas anyway. The guy wouldn't have been able to keep his balance or been able to persist in trying to get into your car. You could've gone forward, jumped out the passenger side and thrown your keys. This is just as plausible of a scenario as you having been able to locate your gun and use it before he would've just grabbed it out of your hands.

And why on earth would you not travel to see your daughter without bringing a gun? In a million years it never would have crossed my mind when making travel plans that I had to include arming myself on my itinerary???? I know I sound incredulous, but reading some of these posts I truly feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate universe....I know no one who lives in such fear that they feel they should be carrying a deadly weapon.

You might not know anyone who carries a deadly weapon, but I'll bet you sure know plenty of people who drive them.
 
Just out of curiosity, there is a thread here about a 70 year old man out walking who was accosted by 4 young men who tried to rob him, assaulted, and gang raped him.

Is there anyone here who believes he should have simply whipped out his handy cell phone and called 911 at faster-than-light speed and then wait for a miraculous rescue?

Is there anyone here who believes he should have just accepted his fate and then depend on the justice system AFTER the crime to make things right for him again?

If this man were, instead, your daughter, son, mother, daughter, and were KILLED or disabled for life in this attack, would you STILL feel 911 was the best protection?

Is there anyone who thinks this 70 year old wouldn't have pulled the gun fast enough? JMO
 
Is there anyone who thinks this 70 year old wouldn't have pulled the gun fast enough? JMO

If he had never been trained, was inexperienced, and felt uncomfortable with a gun, you would most likely be right.

I'd guess about 90% of the 70 year olds that I PERSONALLY know would have had their piece aimed and at the ready before the 4 arrogant druggies knew what was happening. Most likely, the jerks would have said they were just kiddin' and gone on their way to look for a more vulnerable victim. Or maybe they would have called his bluff, but not real likely, knowing that at least one of them would have been left dead at the scene as testimony against the others.

Most of the 70 year olds I know have hunted all their lives, carried with a permit all their lives, and wouldn't hesitate to kill before they were robbed and gang raped.

But then, there are anti-gun proponents out there that would rather that 70 year old die and those 4 subhumans live to prey on other innocents than for him to have the right to protect his life. And they will sadly probably feel that way until it is one of their OWN that is murdered.

I know this story only all too well. I was the most anti-gun proponent the world ever saw until I was the one at the business end of a depraved criminal's gun. Try telling me NOW that I should have no right to protect myself, HAH!
 
Actually, in the first instance it sounds like you would have had a much better chance at being protected AND could have assisted LE in capturing a perpetrator if you had called 911. In the second instance, it doesn't matter that there was a car in front of you, you press the gas anyway. The guy wouldn't have been able to keep his balance or been able to persist in trying to get into your car. You could've gone forward, jumped out the passenger side and thrown your keys. This is just as plausible of a scenario as you having been able to locate your gun and use it before he would've just grabbed it out of your hands.

And why on earth would you not travel to see your daughter without bringing a gun? In a million years it never would have crossed my mind when making travel plans that I had to include arming myself on my itinerary???? I know I sound incredulous, but reading some of these posts I truly feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate universe....I know no one who lives in such fear that they feel they should be carrying a deadly weapon.

How nice for you to tell the victim of potentially deadly crimes how she could have better handled them, without taking a few moments to read the story, visualize the events, and put yourself in HER position.

In the apartment break in, she clearly stated she was in a small apartment, on the floor, back to the sofa, applying all the leverage she could to keep her attacker from pushing the door open. Yet YOU think she should have gotten up, walked across a room or rooms to a land line phone if she even HAD one, and attempted to call 911 before he was in and stopped her????? Seriously?

In the second incident, stuck in traffic with cars in front and behind, with a person who, in front of EVERY WITNESS THERE, literally breaks her window out to get to her, you would have her simply ram the car in front of her as her protection???? And then jump OUT INTO THE STREET WITH THEM??? And you think SHE is a menace to peace if she carries protection???

I am truly speechless.

We wonder why criminals are overtaking our world. I believe they COUNT on people thinking like this. I never worked with a juvenile in the criminal justice system that didn't think his victims were idiots. After all these years, I FINALLY understand that . Thank you so much for enlightening me.
 
Your hyperbole carries no weight.

Fear tactics are what we'll see when corporate fascists along with the UN and their agenda 21 deprive the populace of self-defense. Are you prepared to accept Mexican drug cartels committing the number of murders in this country that they've done in Mexico? No one is going to close the borders because big banks profit from laundering drug money. Welcome to global fascism.

Yeah, ok. I'm quaking in my boots. :waitasec: More NRA nonsense.....I'd rather take my chances out and about in public without a bunch of wannabes hopped up on adrenaline itching for a shoot out around every corner. There's no way a member of the average public is going to be able to successfully produce and fire a gun without a ton of collateral damage during the perpetration of a crime. I don't want my son to be a victim of someone's tough guy fantasy.
 
IF it happened the way the guy describes it I have little problem with it. If someone enters your property illegally and has bad intent then I say shoot them. If they are killed then it saves the justice system a trial if the guy using the gun was justified. JMO

I have a problem with this guys story. He shoots the one guy and they both start running away, but decide to come back and "Get him" knowing he has a gun? :waitasec: He says his second shot missed. There could have been someone standing where his bullet landed.



BBM

That's not because people don't have guns. IMO, it's because the justice system is too soft and/or his department can't handle evidence or conduct an investigation properly.



Fear is a very strong weapon. Fear can be used to make countries declare war when it's not necessary, it can be used in ads for cars, it can be used to make people want guns or alarm systems, it can be used to incite hatred of another culture etc. etc. etc...

To quote Genesis (The band) "We fear what we don't understand."



Assuming everyone is a crack shot every time. Otherwise you have a lot of wounded bystanders. A friend of mine worked the E.R. in Las Angeles and said that the only person who doesn't get hit in a drive by shooting is the intended victim.

Almost everybody thinks they are good enough to shoot and hit a moving target without any stray bullets when they get a carry permit. It's simply not true. I'm sorry for forgetting who posted it but their parents are cops and they stated police are told not to shoot into crowds. Your average gun owner doesn't know that or doesn't care because they think they're Clint Eastwood. JMO



In the Walmart scenario if three guys had swooped in they could have stopped it from happening any more. That's simply a case of Bystander Effect, IMO.



Then why do you own a gun?

Here are my thoughts on guns and alarm systems. If somebody wants to kill you an alarm system or a gun isn't going to help you. In the case of an alarm system you'll be dead and they'll be gone by the time the police show up. The alarm system will help nail down your time of death and therefore the investigation into your murder. The best thing an alarm system does for you is the make the burglar move on to a house without one. If someone wants to kill you they can shoot you anywhere. Through a window in your house, while you're walking to your car, at work, when they pull up next to you at a light etc.. A gun won't help one iota in those situations.

Guns are great in the home provided:

You know how to safely use it.

If there is anyone else in the house that you can trust them to not use it on you. That is something a lot of people have found out the hard way.

You have it safely stored, especially if you have kids.

You can get to it and use it before someone gets to you.


If someone owns a gun and they use it against a family member, or their kid shoots themselves or someone else in the family with it, then it's just the consequences of idiocy by the person who is responsible for the gun. I have little sympathy for the gun owner but a lot for the victim. Nobody should live with someone that stupid. Sometimes a Darwin Award is merited for those things.

The biggest problem I see is that they are stolen during burglaries and then there are more illegal guns carried by criminals on the streets.

With a carry permit you need to be sure you can get the gun before the bad guy does. In a carjacking situation if you grab a gun it seems to me that the chances are slim that the bad guy will be shot most of the time. I think it poses a greater threat to the victim because it could be taken away.

If you're grabbed from behind a gun won't help you then, or in any other situation where you don't see it coming a long ways off.

Between 2003-2005 there were 5.9 murders per 100,000 people in the United States. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/oct/13/homicide-rates-country-murder-data That is all types of murders not just gun murders.

Gun Law data is provided by http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...-world_n_807700.html#s222572&title=Australia_

Australia 1.3 (2004) Gun ownership is strictly prohibited unless there are "genuine reasons" such as licensed sport, animal control or employment requirements.

Brazil 30.8 (2003-2005) Brazilians over the age of 25 are allowed to own guns as long as they are registered and kept indoors. The country has the second-highest gun-related death rate after the U.S.

Canada 1.5 (2002-2004) Canada's gun laws are significantly stricter than the neighboring U.S. To acquire a license, applicants must take a safety course, pass a criminal records check and be certified by a firearms officer.

China 2.2 (2004) Chinese civilians are not allowed to own guns, except for hunting and protection from wildlife. Citizens can face the death penalty if caught illegally selling arms.

Czech Republic 2.2 (2004) Czech guns laws are considerably more liberal than the rest of Europe. Applicants must pass a questionnaire on firearms, have no criminal record and show ID proving they are over 21 years old.

Germany 1 (2004) Germany's Federal Weapons Act, enacted in 1972, restricts everything apart from replica guns to adults at least 18 years old, who must pass checks for "trustworthiness, knowledge and adequacy." A firearms ownership license, or Waffenbesitzkarte, must be obtained before a weapon can be purchased.

Italy 1.2 (2004) Italians can have up to three "common" handguns in their home, but if they want to hunt or carry a concealed weapon they must apply for a license.

Japan 0.5 (2205) Japanese licensing requirements are considered a formality -- there is little enforcement of the strict laws. Despite this, gun deaths are among the lowest in the world.

Mexico 10.9 (2004-2006) Strict laws, including criminal record checks, apply for Mexican ownership. However, there are growing concerns that smuggling from the US is undermining these regulations.

Russia 29.7 (2004) Self defense is not a viable excuse for carrying firearms outside the home in Russia. Hand guns and fully automatics are prohibited, but adults with no criminal record can apply for a license for shotguns and air rifles.

The United Kingdom is not included on the global homicide list but here is their law; Brits convicted of a criminal offense cannot handle, possess or shoot a gun. A license is needed for any firearm except low-powered air rifles/pistols. Self-defense is not a valid reason for ownership.

I think the data shows that some countries with strict laws have high murder rates, like Russia, and others with liberal gun ownership access, like Japan, have low murder rates. So why does America have the largest amount of gun related deaths? IMO, we're :chicken: We've been taught fear by the sensationalistic media (If it bleeds it leads). Shoot first and ask questions later.

You're chances of needing a gun, in most situations, is much smaller than the possibility of it ending up in the wrong hands. JMO

If you think you need one then get one, just make sure it doesn't end up in my face because somebody stole it from you.

Great post Steely, and:

BBM

You have it safely stored, especially if you have kids.

You can get to it and use it before someone gets to you.


These 2 points are virtually impossible to achieve. CCW don't make anybody safer, but they sure do increase the potential casualties.
 
Everyone sees things through their own unique lens. We all have filters based on our life experiences and personalities.

When Marie Antoinette was told how desperately poor and starving her nation's people were with no money to even afford bread, she answered "then let them eat cake".

Her own experience was so far removed from most people's reality that she believed this to be a serious solution for the problem.

Obviously, she had never experienced starvation and poverty. I believe she threw out her ridiculous answer partly in ignorance, partly in arrogance, and partly to avoid the trauma and pain of having to really SEE reality as it really existed.

I am seeing the same dynamic play out here on this thread. Those who have had very real experiences that showed the need for "protection" understand the reality.

Those who have (thankfully) never had their own daughters, sons, or loved ones viciously and senselessly murdered by criminals or criminally ill, keep reality at bay with comments like "if you live in an unsafe area, simply move".

Yeah.......let them eat cake too. Sheesh.

BBM

Yes, this does illustrate my point. We have an extremely powerful gun lobby in this country that has a vested interest in convincing everyone that violent crime is rampant, our police force is failing and it's wildness and anarchy in the streets. This is the distorted "reality" the gun lobby is using to stoke fears and convince people that they need their product in order to survive. It is a perception FAR removed from reality.
 
Is there anyone who thinks this 70 year old wouldn't have pulled the gun fast enough? JMO

My husband is close to 70 and would have drawn his gun and taken all 4 out before they knew what happened to them. Keep in mind, there are a lot of people who shoot at the range regularly. He practices not only static shooting but also high tech shooting (see Gander Mountain) which requires drawing from his holster and shooting. I took protection courses that required you to drop, roll behind an object and fire/hit a target to pass. Hubby had extensive training in the service. Neither of us would EVER want to have to draw and fire, but I'm fairly confident if we did whomever the target would no longer be a threat.
 
- - - snipped - - - I don't want my son to be a victim of someone's tough guy fantasy.

So now preserving one's life is considered "someone's tough guy FANTASY"???

You are a criminal's dream come true.
 
If he had never been trained, was inexperienced, and felt uncomfortable with a gun, you would most likely be right.

I'd guess about 90% of the 70 year olds that I PERSONALLY know would have had their piece aimed and at the ready before the 4 arrogant druggies knew what was happening. Most likely, the jerks would have said they were just kiddin' and gone on their way to look for a more vulnerable victim. Or maybe they would have called his bluff, but not real likely, knowing that at least one of them would have been left dead at the scene as testimony against the others.

Most of the 70 year olds I know have hunted all their lives, carried with a permit all their lives, and wouldn't hesitate to kill before they were robbed and gang raped.

But then, there are anti-gun proponents out there that would rather that 70 year old die and those 4 subhumans live to prey on other innocents than for him to have the right to protect his life. And they will sadly probably feel that way until it is one of their OWN that is murdered.

I know this story only all too well. I was the most anti-gun proponent the world ever saw until I was the one at the business end of a depraved criminal's gun. Try telling me NOW that I should have no right to protect myself, HAH!

I think it's more likely that they would have gotten the gun away from him robbed him, raped him and then killed him with his own gun. JMO

How nice for you to tell the victim of potentially deadly crimes how she could have better handled them, without taking a few moments to read the story, visualize the events, and put yourself in HER position.

In the apartment break in, she clearly stated she was in a small apartment, on the floor, back to the sofa, applying all the leverage she could to keep her attacker from pushing the door open. Yet YOU think she should have gotten up, walked across a room or rooms to a land line phone if she even HAD one, and attempted to call 911 before he was in and stopped her????? Seriously?

In the second incident, stuck in traffic with cars in front and behind, with a person who, in front of EVERY WITNESS THERE, literally breaks her window out to get to her, you would have her simply ram the car in front of her as her protection???? And then jump OUT INTO THE STREET WITH THEM??? And you think SHE is a menace to peace if she carries protection???

I am truly speechless.

We wonder why criminals are overtaking our world. I believe they COUNT on people thinking like this. I never worked with a juvenile in the criminal justice system that didn't think his victims were idiots. After all these years, I FINALLY understand that . Thank you so much for enlightening me.

BBM

I don't recall ever reading about a carjacking that involved a car between two others. A criminal needs a fast getaway. Just step on the gas.

My husband is close to 70 and would have drawn his gun and taken all 4 out before they knew what happened to them. Keep in mind, there are a lot of people who shoot at the range regularly. He practices not only static shooting but also high tech shooting (see Gander Mountain) which requires drawing from his holster and shooting. I took protection courses that required you to drop, roll behind an object and fire/hit a target to pass. Hubby had extensive training in the service. Neither of us would EVER want to have to draw and fire, but I'm fairly confident if we did whomever the target would no longer be a threat.

If everybody had the experience and training your husband has I might have a different opinion. However, it seems that almost every gun owner thinks they are a much better shot than they are. JMO
 
My husband is close to 70 and would have drawn his gun and taken all 4 out before they knew what happened to them. Keep in mind, there are a lot of people who shoot at the range regularly. He practices not only static shooting but also high tech shooting (see Gander Mountain) which requires drawing from his holster and shooting. I took protection courses that required you to drop, roll behind an object and fire/hit a target to pass. Hubby had extensive training in the service. Neither of us would EVER want to have to draw and fire, but I'm fairly confident if we did whomever the target would no longer be a threat.

That is awesome. I'm betting your husband would be the guy criminals go out of their way to avoid if they know he is capable of defending himself. It's the incapable and in denial they target when they can.

What is amazing is that SOME people are more afraid of your husband than of the depraved criminals. How does THAT happen?

I know of plenty of situations where law abiding, well-trained, and brave people prevented massacre because they knew how to do so and were prepared. I know of NONE where concealed permit carriers indiscriminately shot up the general public, like "Clint Eastwood" or a "tough guy fantasy".

So where do such people get these unfounded fears. Is there a lobby that is generating mass hysteria and a state of panic in these people? it is unfathomable that the good law abiding guys are considered "bad", or just too stupid to know what they are doing, but that KNOWN murderers being trusted with their weapons during public massacre over and above those who can stop the bloodshed is downright unimaginable.

Would these same people who think bystanding Walmart shoppers should stop a crazy mentally ill drug-fueled murderer during a murderous rage by simply picking up something off the shelves and throwing it at him tell her OWN DAUGHTER to intervene in that attack by simply throwing something at this man??? And if he then turned on HER?? Oh wait......its ok, 911 will get there eventually. And I'm sure the daughter will thank her mother......from her GRAVE.

Heaven forbid your (wild reckless stupid out of control fantasizing to be Clint Eastwood) husband might stop the murder of her daughter. She wouldn't want that to happen. Odds are WAY too high, in her opinion, that your husband would be too clueless stupid reckless to know what to do.

Never mind that law enforcement ENCOURAGES people to become licensed to carry for such life preserving situations. Someone has convinced these people that trained and licensed gun holders are idiots. How does that happen?
 
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