Spartanburg, SC Sheriff to women...ARM YOURSELVES...

[not_my_kids]

I'm 5'5, 120 lbs in combat boots. Even if an intruder didn't have a gun, I still might need mine. In both of the situations listed above, the guns would never have been discovered or played with if they had been in locked cabinets with ammo removed and stored seperately. Like I said, it takes me 43 seconds to find, unlock, and assemble my gun. It takes me a another 2 to thumb off the safety and fire...If you can take me out in under 45 seconds, you win. If not, I win. It's that simple.

If there are kids in the house, weapons always have to be stored safely. That's a given. What does disturb me is that the sheriff here is not stressing that point. If you are going to holler for everyone to go out and get a gun, don't forget to stress the responsibility aspect.

 

[turbosleuthing]

i'm 5'5, 120 lbs in combat boots. Even if an intruder didn't have a gun, i still might need mine. In both of the situations listed above, the guns would never have been discovered or played with if they had been in locked cabinets with ammo removed and stored seperately. like i said, it takes me 43 seconds to find, unlock, and assemble my gun. It takes me a another 2 to thumb off the safety and fire...if you can take me out in under 45 seconds, you win. If not, i win. It's that simple. if there are kids in the house, weapons always have to be stored safely. That's a given. What does disturb me is that the sheriff here is not stressing that point. If you are going to holler for everyone to go out and get a gun, don't forget to stress the responsibility aspect.

bbm - love it

 

[Nova]

"So frontier justice filled in while settlers waited for sheriffs, jails, courts, etc. "

This is so true, and yet the jails only hold people AFTER they have committed their crimes.

And today, with the jail overcrowding, etc., many many of the already-proven and convicted violent and repeat offenders are STILL on the street and in places that you and your loved ones frequent daily.

This is exactly the scenario that frustrated the sheriff enough to prompt him to warn his people to PROTECT themselves.

Except the simpler solution to prison overcrowding is to free non-violent offenders, thus making room for those who are truly dangerous. Other forms of punishment/confinement can be devised for forgers and con men. And drug usage should be treated as a medical problem.

You yourself say the Walmart incident might have been worse had the perp had a gun instead of a bat. Yet that is precisely the likely outcome of wholesale permitting to carry concealed weapons. If the bystanders had intended to intervene, there were plenty of objects in that Walmart that would have served against a baseball bat.

On the other hand, shoot outs in Walmarts are a threat to everyone.

 

[reportertype]

I was discussing this topic with my mother and she told me that when she was around 6 years old she remembers snooping in her parent's closet for Xmas presents. She dragged a chair over and reached way in the back of the top shelf and dragged out a box. There was a handgun in the box. She vividly remembers sitting on her parents bed playing with this gun, pretending to point it at herself in the mirror, twirling it around her finger. When she was done playing she hid it away again and never told her parents. Now the memory of having done that makes her sick. Gun carrying criminals have the element of surprise on their side. Once someone becomes aware that they are being threatened, it's too late to pull a gun if the offender already has one. You lose. If you pull a gun and it turns out the offender never had a gun in the first place, well, then, you really didn't need a gun to begin with. Unless you sleep with a gun under your pillow which you shouldn't be doing, there is no way you'd have time to get to your gun before the offender does what he/she came to do. If the gun is locked in a gun safe, you don't have time to say, "Excuse me a minute", go to the safe, open it with a combination that you're trying to remember as adrenaline is flooding your system, retrieve the gun, aim it and fire without killing an innocent party in your vicinity. You're much better off calling 911 at the first sign of trouble. If you actually live in a crime infested environment where you truly feel in order to survive your day that you need to have a gun strapped to your person, then you need to MOVE. Guns are never going to be the answer but they do provide a false sense of security.

THIS!!!

A gun isn't going to help in many cases.

 

[reportertype]

Except the simpler solution to prison overcrowding is to free non-violent offenders, thus making room for those who are truly dangerous. Other forms of punishment/confinement can be devised for forgers and con men. And drug usage should be treated as a medical problem.

You yourself say the Walmart incident might have been worse had the perp had a gun instead of a bat. Yet that is precisely the likely outcome of wholesale permitting to carry concealed weapons. If the bystanders had intended to intervene, there were plenty of objects in that Walmart that would have served against a baseball bat.

On the other hand, shoot outs in Walmarts are a threat to everyone.

What? These people who outnumbered the WalMart guy could not have found some sort of weapon and stopped him? But yet they could aim at a moving target and hit him without injuring the person he was beating? It sounds like in this case no one wanted to help.

That entire argument - that you can stop a shooter's rampage in a crowded area - was used in Texas to boost support for concealed weapons. Never mind that it's ridiculous. During such a panic, you are more likely (almost certain) to shoot another victim. It's why cops don't shoot in crowds.

 

[Knot4u2no]

What? These people who outnumbered the WalMart guy could not have found some sort of weapon and stopped him? But yet they could aim at a moving target and hit him without injuring the person he was beating? It sounds like in this case no one wanted to help.

That entire argument - that you can stop a shooter's rampage in a crowded area - was used in Texas to boost support for concealed weapons. Never mind that it's ridiculous. During such a panic, you are more likely (almost certain) to shoot another victim. It's why cops don't shoot in crowds.

References please. Someone with a concealed carry permit more likely to shoot another victim rather than a criminal commiting a crime? Opinion or fact?

Russell

 

[Nova]

BBM

A defendent has the right to choose their life determination. They can choose to plead guilty or not guilty. They can choose to plead to a lesser sentence. The victim however wasn't given the right to say yes or no to sexual assault or murder. A defendent has the right to privacy. Very seldom will you see their medical or mental health history in media before a conviction. Yet a victim will often see their medical, mental health and even their sexual history's in media long before any trial. Even after conviction much of the convict's history is censored due to his "right to privacy."


A defendant has many more rights than a victim.

IMO, the cliche you invoked is a silly misuse of language. The victim and the defendant have the same legal rights vis a vis the criminal justice system. Unless dead, the victim is free to walk around after the crime, while the defendant, once identified, is almost always incarcerated or required to post a bond.

As for privacy rights, I'm not sure any of us can guarantee our privacy in the age of social networking and 24/7 media, but the laws at least have been rewritten in most jurisdictions to better protect the victim.

A phrase like "The criminal has more rights than the victim" is incendiary and, like most of this conversation, simply serves to prolong the hysteria.

 

[Nova]

What do you mean it isn't?....

As I documented, violent sexual crime is roughly half what it was 20 years ago. The sheriff's rant implied that crime was "out of control" because of lax enforcement by the courts. That is NOT "the way it is".

 

[reportertype]

References please. Someone with a concealed carry permit more likely to shoot another victim rather than a criminal commiting a crime? Opinion or fact?

Russell

A reference to what? Common sense? It's obvious if you point a gun into a crowded area full of moving people and shoot, it's going to be difficult to hit your intended target. That information comes straight from the police academy courtesy of my LE parents.

 

[tiredblondy]

IMO, the cliche you invoked is a silly misuse of language. The victim and the defendant have the same legal rights vis a vis the criminal justice system. Unless dead, the victim is free to walk around after the crime, while the defendant, once identified, is almost always incarcerated or required to post a bond.

As for privacy rights, I'm not sure any of us can guarantee our privacy in the age of social networking and 24/7 media, but the laws at least have been rewritten in most jurisdictions to better protect the victim.

A phrase like "The criminal has more rights than the victim" is incendiary and, like most of this conversation, simply serves to prolong the hysteria.

Nova Nova Nova, good to see you again. I'm so sorry but how can you look at this from the perspective of a woman raped or woman beaten and abused? If a woman is raped her past history is thrown around the courtroom for all to see and know yet the rapist's past crimes and criminal history cannot be admitted. That alone seems to justify in my mind that in that situation the criminal has more rights than the victim.

The beaten and abused spouse's husband gets out of jail and kills her even with a restraining order. Where is the justice and outrage here?

It's obivious no one is going to change your mind and I hope you respect the fact that we have our views that are different from yours.

I will share this. I have a gun and will probably get a pemit to carry a concealed handgun soon. I want to go see my daughter in Kansas and I'd never go without one.

I have had two experiences that I needed a gun, if the Lord hadn't intervened.

Once when I lived in a garage apartment in Asheville someone came up the steps of my apartment about 2am. I heard them and heard them turn the doorknob. I had always pushed a big heavy chair in front of the door before going to bed just for safety's sake. There was no other way out of that apt besides the front door. This was in a nice neighborhood. I have never been so scared in all my life and I couldn't hear anything for the beating of my heart. I sat in the floor and braced myself against the chair with my back against the couch and used every bit of leverage possible to keep that big chair against the door. The guy turned the knob, jiggled it and got it open but when he pushed nothing happened. I don't know why but he backed away and smoked a cigarette on the landing, tried the door one more time when my neighbors pulled in with their car lights hitting him. All I saw was the sillhouette of a big guy, he then loudly went back down the steps. If I'd had a gun I could have protected myself if he had gotten in. Without it -there I was in a little two room apt a sitting duck. I have never been without a gun since.

Another time before this I'd pulled up to a traffic light and this guy came up and tried to get in my car. It all happened so quickly. Thank goodness my Daddy had taught me to always keep my car doors locked because that slowed his momentum. He tried to open the car door, then in seconds smashed the window and was unlocking the door. Luckily two guys in the truck behind me jumped out and pulled him away and yelled at me to get outta there. I went straight to the police station and filed a report. I thank God for those two guys regularly. But....if they hadn't been there I'd have been a gonner because it happened so quickly.( Fyi I couldn't step on the gas because there was a car in front of me and beside me at the red light)

These are two of my personal experiences. I have one more.

When I was at my grandparents house making Grandma and Grandpa's bed there was a gun under the pillow. It looked just like my brother's play gun. I pulled it out and said to my brother " look at this" and pulled the trigger.

My Daddy, Moma,Grandparents everyone had taught us all never to point a gun at anyone- ever- even when playing cowboys and indians.(which we did daily) When I said to my brother "Look at this" that training that had been drilled in my head worked because I pointed it at the door and blew a hole in the door.

Yes I was traumatized at what could have happened but in no way has it prevented me from learning how to correctly use a "pistol". Matter of fact after thanking the good Lord above my Grandfather took me immediately outside and taught me how to use it.

Yes, he should have had it put up and usually he did but their freezer was on the back porch and people had been stealing their meat out of it. He'd chased someone away the night before and just stuck it under his pillow.

I consider myself a pretty good resource based on my experiences.I am a person who almost shot my brother.( I was 9ys old) I am a person who understands keeping guns away from children.

I also know how to use a gun to defend myself and in the two first instances I described-- a gun could have saved my life.

There are very mean evil people out there. I'm observant when I'm out but that isn't enough.

To the person who said that if you live in a bad neighborhood to just move! Tell that to the working single parent who can barely put food on the table!

My opinions are based on my experiences and something I heard my local sheriff and a judge talking about once not too long ago. They both were talking about the fact that the criminals are turned loose as fast as they can put them away.

When you speak of criminals who dont have serious charges do you know who is being released? Sex offenders, rapists and spousal and child abusers. The pot smokers and drug dealers rarely serve time. At least in my area.

Law enforcement try, some judges try but did you know that the state (whoever that is) can dictate sentences?

And Nova please don't attack my friend who made the post you referred to above! We all come here with different life experiences and have our reasons for our opinions. I may go down shooting to protect myself but at least I will have had a chance.

:blowkiss:

 

[animlzrule]

Nova Nova Nova, good to see you again. I'm so sorry but how can you look at this from the perspective of a woman raped or woman beaten and abused? If a woman is raped her past history is thrown around the courtroom for all to see and know yet the rapist's past crimes and criminal history cannot be admitted. That alone seems to justify in my mind that in that situation the criminal has more rights than the victim.

The beaten and abused spouse's husband gets out of jail and kills her even with a restraining order. Where is the justice and outrage here?

It's obivious no one is going to change your mind and I hope you respect the fact that we have our views that are different from yours.

I will share this. I have a gun and will probably get a pemit to carry a concealed handgun soon. I want to go see my daughter in Kansas and I'd never go without one.

I have had two experiences that I needed a gun, if the Lord hadn't intervened.

Once when I lived in a garage apartment in Asheville someone came up the steps of my apartment about 2am. I heard them and heard them turn the doorknob. I had always pushed a big heavy chair in front of the door before going to bed just for safety's sake. There was no other way out of that apt besides the front door. This was in a nice neighborhood. I have never been so scared in all my life and I couldn't hear anything for the beating of my heart. I sat in the floor and braced myself against the chair with my back against the couch and used every bit of leverage possible to keep that big chair against the door. The guy turned the knob, jiggled it and got it open but when he pushed nothing happened. I don't know why but he backed away and smoked a cigarette on the landing, tried the door one more time when my neighbors pulled in with their car lights hitting him. All I saw was the sillhouette of a big guy, he then loudly went back down the steps. If I'd had a gun I could have protected myself if he had gotten in. Without it -there I was in a little two room apt a sitting duck. I have never been without a gun since.

Another time before this I'd pulled up to a traffic light and this guy came up and tried to get in my car. It all happened so quickly. Thank goodness my Daddy had taught me to always keep my car doors locked because that slowed his momentum. He tried to open the car door, then in seconds smashed the window and was unlocking the door. Luckily two guys in the truck behind me jumped out and pulled him away and yelled at me to get outta there. I went straight to the police station and filed a report. I thank God for those two guys regularly. But....if they hadn't been there I'd have been a gonner because it happened so quickly.( Fyi I couldn't step on the gas because there was a car in front of me and beside me at the red light)

These are two of my personal experiences. I have one more.

When I was at my grandparents house making Grandma and Grandpa's bed there was a gun under the pillow. It looked just like my brother's play gun. I pulled it out and said to my brother " look at this" and pulled the trigger.

My Daddy, Moma,Grandparents everyone had taught us all never to point a gun at anyone- ever- even when playing cowboys and indians.(which we did daily) When I said to my brother "Look at this" that training that had been drilled in my head worked because I pointed it at the door and blew a hole in the door.

Yes I was traumatized at what could have happened but in no way has it prevented me from learning how to correctly use a "pistol". Matter of fact after thanking the good Lord above my Grandfather took me immediately outside and taught me how to use it.

Yes, he should have had it put up and usually he did but their freezer was on the back porch and people had been stealing their meat out of it. He'd chased someone away the night before and just stuck it under his pillow.

I consider myself a pretty good resource based on my experiences.I am a person who almost shot my brother.( I was 9ys old) I am a person who understands keeping guns away from children.

I also know how to use a gun to defend myself and in the two first instances I described-- a gun could have saved my life.

There are very mean evil people out there. I'm observant when I'm out but that isn't enough.

To the person who said that if you live in a bad neighborhood to just move! Tell that to the working single parent who can barely put food on the table!

My opinions are based on my experiences and something I heard my local sheriff and a judge talking about once not too long ago. They both were talking about the fact that the criminals are turned loose as fast as they can put them away.

When you speak of criminals who dont have serious charges do you know who is being released? Sex offenders, rapists and spousal and child abusers. The pot smokers and drug dealers rarely serve time. At least in my area.

Law enforcement try, some judges try but did you know that the state (whoever that is) can dictate sentences?

And Nova please don't attack my friend who made the post you referred to above! We all come here with different life experiences and have our reasons for our opinions. I may go down shooting to protect myself but at least I will have had a chance.

:blowkiss:

Actually, in the first instance it sounds like you would have had a much better chance at being protected AND could have assisted LE in capturing a perpetrator if you had called 911. In the second instance, it doesn't matter that there was a car in front of you, you press the gas anyway. The guy wouldn't have been able to keep his balance or been able to persist in trying to get into your car. You could've gone forward, jumped out the passenger side and thrown your keys. This is just as plausible of a scenario as you having been able to locate your gun and use it before he would've just grabbed it out of your hands.

And why on earth would you not travel to see your daughter without bringing a gun? In a million years it never would have crossed my mind when making travel plans that I had to include arming myself on my itinerary???? I know I sound incredulous, but reading some of these posts I truly feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate universe....I know no one who lives in such fear that they feel they should be carrying a deadly weapon.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

As I documented, violent sexual crime is roughly half what it was 20 years ago. The sheriff's rant implied that crime was "out of control" because of lax enforcement by the courts. That is NOT "the way it is".

Here are statistics in the RISE of violent sexual crimes against women ......
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19143411/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/sex-offenders-getting-younger-more-violent/

http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Actually, in the first instance it sounds like you would have had a much better chance at being protected AND could have assisted LE in capturing a perpetrator if you had called 911. In the second instance, it doesn't matter that there was a car in front of you, you press the gas anyway. The guy wouldn't have been able to keep his balance or been able to persist in trying to get into your car. You could've gone forward, jumped out the passenger side and thrown your keys. This is just as plausible of a scenario as you having been able to locate your gun and use it before he would've just grabbed it out of your hands.

And why on earth would you not travel to see your daughter without bringing a gun? In a million years it never would have crossed my mind when making travel plans that I had to include arming myself on my itinerary???? I know I sound incredulous, but reading some of these posts I truly feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate universe....I know no one who lives in such fear that they feel they should be carrying a deadly weapon.

Funny you think people who are armed are living in fear. Actually it is quite the opposite, I fear nothing and no one.

 

[Trident]

One can be cautious and alert without being fearful. The "reality" is that, as a whole, society is safer than it used to be. Look at the brutality in the past. I refuse to ascribe to reactionary fear, simply because of our advances in technology, we are able to hear about more crime, and hear about it quicker than we used it.

BBM Can I have some statistics to back up the "opinion" that society is safer than it used to be? Thanks in advance.

 

[justthinkin]

BBM Something for you to be very grateful for. I've never known anyone with a personal firearm either. I don't understand where the gun culture in our country comes from. But yeah, I agree, he sounds like he needs a leave of absence or retirement....

You don't understand where the gun culture in our country comes from?

This nation did not develop into the country it is without guns. Guns are tools, as is the hammer and axe which can serve as weapons themselves. Guns not only offered our early settlers protection from raiding Indians, Red Coats, and highwaymen, but they importantly provided food for the table.

Today we are neither worried about Indians or Red Coats, but guns can still protect individual homes from the criminal element, and they still put food on the table in every state with a viable population of game birds and animals.

http://www.jaegerkorps.org/NRA/Hunting Guns in Colonial America.htm

 

[justthinkin]

That entire argument - that you can stop a shooter's rampage in a crowded area - was used in Texas to boost support for concealed weapons. Never mind that it's ridiculous. During such a panic, you are more likely (almost certain) to shoot another victim. It's why cops don't shoot in crowds.

It's not ridiculous. In most cases, soon as someone starts firing, the innocent bystanders will go for the nearest available cover, crouch down or flatten themselves in an effort to play dead to avoid getting shot. The shooter will be the one out in the open, and identified by dress, manner, and weapon.

Armed teachers could have saved students' lives at Columbine. In that kind of a shooting, the risk that more will be killed is great enough to take the risk of shooting an innocent person in order to take out the shooter. Of course, no one ever wants to see an innocent person hit, but unfortunate things can happen. Sometimes people panic, jump up, and try to make a dash for an exit when they should have stayed low. they could get caught in cross fire. It even happens in police situations occasionally.

I would be negligent if I didn't also say the shooter might be misidentified in some circumstances, and someone with a CWP could wind up shooting at another person with a CWP also coming to the rescue of innocent people. That risk does exist, but the way some of the talk is going on here, it's as if some think that putting a gun in someone's hands automatically makes them an idiot.

Women traveling alone on the highways, staying alone in motel rooms are placing themselves at greater risk than normal. Carrying a gun is not only prudent, it could save your life if you know how to use it, and are comfortable in handling it. Your cell phone could go out, your cigarette lighter that you use to plug in your charger could burn out. What then if you break down on the road? That person stopping to help, may instead disable your vehicle in some manner. The cop who stops you could be a rogue cop. Regardless, it is always best to travel on the roads during daylight hours only on long trips or even short ones. You never know when you might run into trouble until you're there, and it's happening to you.

 

[Trident]

You don't understand where the gun culture in our country comes from?

This nation did not develop into the country it is without guns. Guns are tools, as is the hammer and axe which can serve as weapons themselves. Guns not only offered our early settlers protection from raiding Indians, Red Coats, and highwaymen, but they importantly provided food for the table.

Today we are neither worried about Indians or Red Coats, but guns can still protect individual homes from the criminal element, and they still put food on the table in every state with a viable population of game birds and animals.

http://www.jaegerkorps.org/NRA/Hunting Guns in Colonial America.htm

Nice post, intelligent, to the point, with links to back it up. Thank you.

 

[animlzrule]

You don't understand where the gun culture in our country comes from?

This nation did not develop into the country it is without guns. Guns are tools, as is the hammer and axe which can serve as weapons themselves. Guns not only offered our early settlers protection from raiding Indians, Red Coats, and highwaymen, but they importantly provided food for the table.

Today we are neither worried about Indians or Red Coats, but guns can still protect individual homes from the criminal element, and they still put food on the table in every state with a viable population of game birds and animals.

http://www.jaegerkorps.org/NRA/Hunting Guns in Colonial America.htm

I understand very well that the NRA would like nothing better than to convince every man, woman, child, and domesticated animal if possible to run around with guns. It's an extremely lucrative industry. But it only remains lucrative if the populace is convinced guns are necessary. Hence, the fear tactics.

 

[justthinkin]

I understand very well that the NRA would like nothing better than to convince every man, woman, child, and domesticated animal if possible to run around with guns. It's an extremely lucrative industry. But it only remains lucrative if the populace is convinced guns are necessary. Hence, the fear tactics.

Your hyperbole carries no weight.

Fear tactics are what we'll see when corporate fascists along with the UN and their agenda 21 deprive the populace of self-defense. Are you prepared to accept Mexican drug cartels committing the number of murders in this country that they've done in Mexico? No one is going to close the borders because big banks profit from laundering drug money. Welcome to global fascism.

 

[not_my_kids]

Actually, in the first instance it sounds like you would have had a much better chance at being protected AND could have assisted LE in capturing a perpetrator if you had called 911. In the second instance, it doesn't matter that there was a car in front of you, you press the gas anyway. The guy wouldn't have been able to keep his balance or been able to persist in trying to get into your car. You could've gone forward, jumped out the passenger side and thrown your keys. This is just as plausible of a scenario as you having been able to locate your gun and use it before he would've just grabbed it out of your hands.

And why on earth would you not travel to see your daughter without bringing a gun? In a million years it never would have crossed my mind when making travel plans that I had to include arming myself on my itinerary???? I know I sound incredulous, but reading some of these posts I truly feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate universe....I know no one who lives in such fear that they feel they should be carrying a deadly weapon.

55 murders this year in my city. I guess I do live in an alternate universe from the rosy world where you can walk to the grocery store and not be raped. Or walk to the gas station and not have someone clam you against a building and start going through your pockets. Or sit at a stoplight and not have keep your eyes on everything but the stop light, because you have to worry about the people walking around. Four times this year someone has tried to enter my home. The first one got bored with the door and walked away, the second time my dog scared them off. The third one I got hanging through a window they had broken and luckily, they heeded the verbal warning. The fourth time, I wasn't home and my roommates caught the guy and held him for law enforcement...the entire two hours it took them to get there.
The cops in my city are a shift behind already when they come to work. That means that our third shift, which comes on at 11 p.m., is often answering the calls that came through dispatch between 7 a.m. and 3 p.m. Our response times are crap and they simply cannot send officers to respond to breaking and entering complaints. If you need to file a report on a breaking and entering, you can go to the department during normal business hours and file one. That's it. If you aren't dying, as in literally, actively bleeding to death on the floor, don't bother calling 911 around here. Two-five hours for an officer to respond or 45 seconds to point and shoot. I think my chances are better with the 45 second option.

And I don't live in fear. I would live in fear if I were told I had to wait for an officer and that I couldn't defend myself with lethal force if I felt it were justified and that my life, or my children's lives, were in danger.