***SPOILER ALERT*** Imperfect Justice by Jeff Ashton - CONTENT DISCUSSION

[KathrynL]

Oh because they were waiting for that one piece of information - that one piece that would be a CSI moment for them...:banghead:

I can't even give them that. From the ones who chose to speak, I'd say they were incapable of the reasoning skills to come to the logical conclusion. I can't say what I really think, I'd get an extended TO at best.

 

[wonders]

:floorlaugh: seriously though I'd love to hear the truth about what prompted him to talk plea ....what prompted him to offer the "proffer" to the state earlier this year, (come one you KNOW that was all him and AF, maybe DS, not JB at all, content to let OCA run the show) I'd loooove to hear the truth about what he thought of OCA staring blankly at him and/or pretending he wasnt in the room at all when "plea" passed his lips, and most of all I'd love to know what the heck sent her off in that snarl of rage to JB that one day during CA's testimony til JB turned back around.

I know. I always think of that moment and wonder what she was so pizzed about. That is the TRUE OCA.

 

[jon_burrows]

Wow.

George had just found out that his daughter was accusing him of molesting Caylee as well as OCA, and that he was being accused of molesting Caylee right before he murdered her in the swimming pool.

Personally, I think he had the right to be really upset (and a whole lot more than that), that it would have been weird if he hadn't been upset, and that he could be upset by finding out just how evil his daughter was AND be grieving about Caylee as well.

GA knew exactly how evil his daughter was the the minute he found out she duct taped and suffocated Caylee to death. GA had plenty of time to be Caylee's hero by simply telling the truth, he did not. Caylee is the victim. GA is not.

I am looking at the bigger picture. GA lied for years for Caylee’s killer. He knew the rare Henkel duct tape was his. He knew Caylee died a heinous tortuous death and was thrown out like garbage. What did he do? He lied, he made money off of her death (CA/GA sold pictures too), he blamed innocent people, he (along with his family) set up three foundations…total scam, and he turned his back on Caylee to support her killer.

George defended FCA at Caylee’s funeral, asking people to write letters of support to her after he knew exactly what FCA did to Caylee. GA did not let a little thing like murder, duct tape, swamp, dump, torture, or scavengers stop him from supporting FCA. GA knew FCA drove around with Caylee’s corpse in that car like it was just a piece of trash to be dumped at her convenience.

GA sat side by side with Cindy during all those interviews lying over and over and over again. The smell of death became pizza (ops no pizza) so the smell of death turned into garbage. I could go on but GA told his share of lies. He continued to put money in that monster’s commissary account for years after knowing what happened to Caylee in her last moments on earth and the desecration of her body after death.

GA was downright rude and combative during the Morgan deposition. There was no outrage from GA when FCA falsely accused ZG. He refused to admit FCA did not contribute anything toward basic items such as food, clothing, etc. Considering Caylee’s life was snuffed out by FCA, it seemed like such a trivial and ridiculous thing to argue about, everyone knew FCA hadn’t worked in years. The same combative GA showed himself at FCA’s trial too, arguing over duct tape.

GA already knew FCA told detailed lies about LA (George’s own son) molesting her in the jailhouse letters. FCA hinted that GA was a molester too. Molestation accusations were not new and it wasn’t a stretch for FCA to say he molested or even killed Caylee. After all, she killed her own child and didn't miss a beat with her party life.

So, after all these years, what really upset him the most? What finally made him stop supporting FCA---she accused him. It was a disgusting lie but Caylee is the victim. GA is not. FCA will have another child and that child will pay too---thanks in part to GA.

I will never give that jury a pass because they had enough to serve up the DP but GA and CA’s lies directly contributed to that verdict.

IMO

 

[chefmom]

GA knew exactly how evil his daughter was the the minute he found out she duct taped and suffocated Caylee to death. GA had plenty of time to be Caylee's hero by simply telling the truth, he did not. Caylee is the victim. GA is not.

I am looking at the bigger picture. GA lied for years for Caylee’s killer. He knew the rare Henkel duct tape was his. He knew Caylee died a heinous tortuous death and was thrown out like garbage. What did he do? He lied, he made money off of her death (CA/GA sold pictures too), he blamed innocent people, he (along with his family) set up three foundations…total scam, and he turned his back on Caylee to support her killer.

George defended FCA at Caylee’s funeral, asking people to write letters of support to her after he knew exactly what FCA did to Caylee. GA did not let a little thing like murder, duct tape, swamp, dump, torture, or scavengers stop him from supporting FCA. GA knew FCA drove around with Caylee’s corpse in that car like it was just a piece of trash to be dumped at her convenience.

GA sat side by side with Cindy during all those interviews lying over and over and over again. The smell of death became pizza (ops no pizza) so the smell of death turned into garbage. I could go on but GA told his share of lies. He continued to put money in that monster’s commissary account for years after knowing what happened to Caylee in her last moments on earth and the desecration of her body after death.

GA was downright rude and combative during the Morgan deposition. There was no outrage from GA when FCA falsely accused ZG. He refused to admit FCA did not contribute anything toward basic items such as food, clothing, etc. Considering Caylee’s life was snuffed out by FCA, it seemed like such a trivial and ridiculous thing to argue about, everyone knew FCA hadn’t worked in years. The same combative GA showed himself at FCA’s trial too, arguing over duct tape.

GA already knew FCA told detailed lies about LA (George’s own son) molesting her in the jailhouse letters. FCA hinted that GA was a molester too. Molestation accusations were not new and it wasn’t a stretch for FCA to say he molested or even killed Caylee. After all, she killed her own child and didn't miss a beat with her party life.

So, after all these years, what really upset him the most? What finally made him stop supporting FCA---she accused him. It was a disgusting lie but Caylee is the victim. GA is not. FCA will have another child and that child will pay too---thanks in part to GA.

I will never give that jury a pass because they had enough to serve up the DP but GA and CA’s lies directly contributed to that verdict.

IMO

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

And that, my fellow sleuthers, is it in a nutshell! Well said, Jon! Well said!

 

[KR2tonenow]

I really truly believe that we haven't heard the last of crazy KC. I'm happy that the book was written and that JA has beat everyone to the punch in regards to publishing the book and getting a deal with Fox and revealing this **** for who she really is. I just have always felt that this "freedom" is not really freedom. She is one of the most hated people in the world and when I say world I mean everywhere. One fine day, I sense we will see true justice served. In the meantime, she can't work, no one will hire her, all the money she could make would go back to her debts, she can't walk down the street without looking over her shoulder, she can't go anywhere near her parents house for support nor old friends and I really don't think people who have heard this story will ever forget it, it won't matter how much time passes, so I think she would have been better off in jail.

I also definitely think that Cindy gave her the perfect story when asking KC if Caylee drowned. Also since chlroform was found, the pool theory fit perfectly. I also want to mention that we used to have an astrology thread on this case and I went back into it to read the first interpretations when the case broke. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post that on here but please read what Housemouse and Soulscape wrote in 2008. It will blow your mind and it now makes total sense about why the DT and KC brought the sexual accusations into this.

Cindy has completely enabled the Defense team. If things weren't bad enough this makes even more atrocious. Jeff Ashton's version based on the trial of the century will be truest to form and the only book or movie that should be published, IMO. Jeff Ashton was the only true advocate for Caylee and his voice will be heard.

 

[pcrum12]

bbm
So do I....
OCA also said to the Dr's Caylee did not accidentally drown
OCA said to Dr's that George murdered Caylee......
She also says she left so soundly on the morning of June 16th that George must have drugged her...
She also told them that Caylee that George changed Caylee into different clothing...Well we know Caylee was wearing the Big Trouble comes in Small Packages T-shirt...a T-shirt that Cindy never purchased and had never seen before and she does the laundry...

Is Casey adding her bits of truth to her newest stories, and then submitting someone else for her?

When JA is speaking of Casey telling Dr's these things, are we talking about the ordered evaluations that the 1st judge ordered at the very beginning of this case? If so, were these things said by Casey in the very beginning? I'm confused.

 

[KR2tonenow]

GA knew exactly how evil his daughter was the the minute he found out she duct taped and suffocated Caylee to death. GA had plenty of time to be Caylee's hero by simply telling the truth, he did not. Caylee is the victim. GA is not.

I am looking at the bigger picture. GA lied for years for Caylee’s killer. He knew the rare Henkel duct tape was his. He knew Caylee died a heinous tortuous death and was thrown out like garbage. What did he do? He lied, he made money off of her death (CA/GA sold pictures too), he blamed innocent people, he (along with his family) set up three foundations…total scam, and he turned his back on Caylee to support her killer.

George defended FCA at Caylee’s funeral, asking people to write letters of support to her after he knew exactly what FCA did to Caylee. GA did not let a little thing like murder, duct tape, swamp, dump, torture, or scavengers stop him from supporting FCA. GA knew FCA drove around with Caylee’s corpse in that car like it was just a piece of trash to be dumped at her convenience.

GA sat side by side with Cindy during all those interviews lying over and over and over again. The smell of death became pizza (ops no pizza) so the smell of death turned into garbage. I could go on but GA told his share of lies. He continued to put money in that monster’s commissary account for years after knowing what happened to Caylee in her last moments on earth and the desecration of her body after death.

GA was downright rude and combative during the Morgan deposition. There was no outrage from GA when FCA falsely accused ZG. He refused to admit FCA did not contribute anything toward basic items such as food, clothing, etc. Considering Caylee’s life was snuffed out by FCA, it seemed like such a trivial and ridiculous thing to argue about, everyone knew FCA hadn’t worked in years. The same combative GA showed himself at FCA’s trial too, arguing over duct tape.

GA already knew FCA told detailed lies about LA (George’s own son) molesting her in the jailhouse letters. FCA hinted that GA was a molester too. Molestation accusations were not new and it wasn’t a stretch for FCA to say he molested or even killed Caylee. After all, she killed her own child and didn't miss a beat with her party life.

So, after all these years, what really upset him the most? What finally made him stop supporting FCA---she accused him. It was a disgusting lie but Caylee is the victim. GA is not. FCA will have another child and that child will pay too---thanks in part to GA.

I will never give that jury a pass because they had enough to serve up the DP but GA and CA’s lies directly contributed to that verdict.

IMO

Brilliantly spoken, thank you!

 

[Hope4More]

GA knew exactly how evil his daughter was the the minute he found out she duct taped and suffocated Caylee to death. GA had plenty of time to be Caylee's hero by simply telling the truth, he did not. Caylee is the victim. GA is not. I am looking at the bigger picture...

Jon- I understand everything you are saying about what George did and did not do, and don't disagree with any of it. And, I'm not defending George. I've said before that he bears responsibility for not reining OCA in years before she ever gave birth to Caylee. He failed her before he ever failed Caylee, and he did because he wouldn't go up against CA.

He has a long sorry history of not showing up when it matters, and for all the wrong reasons. And beyond that, as you point out, of having so little personal integrity that he would try to pull genuinely innocent others down into his daughter-generated slime.

All I was saying, really, this and only this is that any sentient being would have been terribly hurt by being the target of OCA's sick accusations, and yep, that includes George.

Adding-- yes of course Caylee was the only victim who matters. But, she wasn't the only one who was victimized by this case--witness your own list of other victims- so please don't get mad at me for mentioning a single piece of damage in the flood of loss and devastation OCA let loose.

 

[Talina]

When JA is speaking of Casey telling Dr's these things, are we talking about the ordered evaluations that the 1st judge ordered at the very beginning of this case? If so, were these things said by Casey in the very beginning? I'm confused.

In April 1999 the prosecutors were presented with a defense witness list that had these 2 doctors on the list. When asked what they were going to testify to, the normal shenanigans ensued. Judge Perry then ordered that they must present reports within which they said these things. The prosecution then wanted to depose them to prepare for their testimony. While these depositions were happening, the defense stopped them and said they were pulling them from the witness list.

One of the two was the dr. that did the initial evaluation on Casey very early on during which she said to the dr. that she'd never been molested. Now in April 1999 she is changing her tune to the same dr. That particular dr. told Jeff Ashton he felt uncomfortable with this new evaluation and her comments and did not like being a vector for this testimony. He was shortly pulled from the defense witness in the middle of his deposition. Shortly after that happened, the 2nd doctor was also pulled.

During this time is when the trial was still scheduled to start in May.

Fast forward to just a few weeks before the actual trial date, Baez requests a meeting with Cindy without George and tells Cindy that the DA office is investigating George on these allegations that Casey has made.
Before knowing this, JA and LB decide they need to let Cindy and George know what is in these reports and what they believe the defense strategy is before it comes to trial so they request a meeting with the Antony's through their attorney. Their attorney is who told JA about the meeting Cindy had with Baez and what Baez told her.

Baez found out they were going to tell the Anthony's about what Casey said to the mental health professionals and tried to block it and the judge said he sealed it so it wouldn't get released to media but that JA could let Cindy and George read them and that is what happened.

So, to answer your question, this was not early on that she made these allegations and in fact, she made them to one of the same doctors that she had already previously denied any molestation or abuse had ever happened to her.

IMO

 

[bayouland]

When OCA was first in jail - wasn't one of her cellmates a mother whose small child died in her back yard pool? I seem to remember that.

I'm not sure we can give Cindy credit for passing the drowning tidbit to OCA in the video. For anyone who has a pool in their backyard and a small child - drowning in that pool to me would be the very first explanation a person would come up with for why a child was dead.

Maybe so, it's the suprise suprise video that makes me think she got it from her.

Cindy had a way or wording things that FCA would pick up on. My gut tells me this is one of them.
JMO.

 

[Nenato5]

And on Day One weren't even visibly moved by photos of a skeletanized infant's body. That was, to me, a telling indication that this jury was not the right jury makeup for a trial such as this one.

IMO

IMHO, this jury was not the right makeup for ANY trial. Listening to this book brings back all of the feelings, sadness, and frustrations I felt during the trial and verdict. Caylee is still gone, Casey is free, and the case is and always will be unresolved--makes me so sad and angry.

 

[bayouland]

I really truly believe that we haven't heard the last of crazy KC. I'm happy that the book was written and that JA has beat everyone to the punch in regards to publishing the book and getting a deal with Fox and revealing this **** for who she really is. I just have always felt that this "freedom" is not really freedom. She is one of the most hated people in the world and when I say world I mean everywhere. One fine day, I sense we will see true justice served. In the meantime, she can't work, no one will hire her, all the money she could make would go back to her debts, she can't walk down the street without looking over her shoulder, she can't go anywhere near her parents house for support nor old friends and I really don't think people who have heard this story will ever forget it, it won't matter how much time passes, so I think she would have been better off in jail.

I also definitely think that Cindy gave her the perfect story when asking KC if Caylee drowned. Also since chlroform was found, the pool theory fit perfectly. I also want to mention that we used to have an astrology thread on this case and I went back into it to read the first interpretations when the case broke. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post that on here but please read what Housemouse and Soulscape wrote in 2008. It will blow your mind and it now makes total sense about why the DT and KC brought the sexual accusations into this.

Having a hard time finding the astrology thread. Is it called something else?

 

[rosepetal1065]

GA knew exactly how evil his daughter was the the minute he found out she duct taped and suffocated Caylee to death. GA had plenty of time to be Caylee's hero by simply telling the truth, he did not. Caylee is the victim. GA is not.

I am looking at the bigger picture. GA lied for years for Caylee’s killer. He knew the rare Henkel duct tape was his. He knew Caylee died a heinous tortuous death and was thrown out like garbage. What did he do? He lied, he made money off of her death (CA/GA sold pictures too), he blamed innocent people, he (along with his family) set up three foundations…total scam, and he turned his back on Caylee to support her killer.

George defended FCA at Caylee’s funeral, asking people to write letters of support to her after he knew exactly what FCA did to Caylee. GA did not let a little thing like murder, duct tape, swamp, dump, torture, or scavengers stop him from supporting FCA. GA knew FCA drove around with Caylee’s corpse in that car like it was just a piece of trash to be dumped at her convenience.

GA sat side by side with Cindy during all those interviews lying over and over and over again. The smell of death became pizza (ops no pizza) so the smell of death turned into garbage. I could go on but GA told his share of lies. He continued to put money in that monster’s commissary account for years after knowing what happened to Caylee in her last moments on earth and the desecration of her body after death.

GA was downright rude and combative during the Morgan deposition. There was no outrage from GA when FCA falsely accused ZG. He refused to admit FCA did not contribute anything toward basic items such as food, clothing, etc. Considering Caylee’s life was snuffed out by FCA, it seemed like such a trivial and ridiculous thing to argue about, everyone knew FCA hadn’t worked in years. The same combative GA showed himself at FCA’s trial too, arguing over duct tape.

GA already knew FCA told detailed lies about LA (George’s own son) molesting her in the jailhouse letters. FCA hinted that GA was a molester too. Molestation accusations were not new and it wasn’t a stretch for FCA to say he molested or even killed Caylee. After all, she killed her own child and didn't miss a beat with her party life.

So, after all these years, what really upset him the most? What finally made him stop supporting FCA---she accused him. It was a disgusting lie but Caylee is the victim. GA is not. FCA will have another child and that child will pay too---thanks in part to GA.

I will never give that jury a pass because they had enough to serve up the DP but GA and CA’s lies directly contributed to that verdict.

IMO

This deserved more than a thanks from me, I said almost the exact same thing to dh last night, while watching JVM . Except, I was yelling.... I got all worked up again...

 

[zippitydoda]

so please don't get mad at me for mentioning a single piece of damage in the flood of loss and devastation OCA let loose.

snipped by me... I too chimed in when you wrote that - and I had hoped that you knew my slings were not aimed at you. This whole sordid situation is still raw for so many, and you wrote from your heart about GA. I commend you for being able to see that GA was hurt by OCA and show him some compassion. Many of us here are not at that point yet, and some may never be when it comes to anyone in that family.

 

[Solace]

Part of the reason I feel Casey may have intentionally drowned Caylee is that during the jailhouse video, when Cindy mentions the drowning theory, KC goes "surprise surprise" I would have expected her to be outraged and say something to that effect had it been false. The "surprise surprise" had an element of guilt/fear. Atleast we know about the duct-tape.

quote]

I didn't get that impression from Surprise Surprise - it seemed to me that it was an indifferent reply to Cindy's question - Cindy appeared to be the one who was afraid and hoping that a drowning did not happen. But as usual, her daughter gave a flippant answer.

 

[rotterdam]

Your absolutely right.
She wasn't quick enough in the mind to come up with that story. She was stuck on ZFG story because she thought she could bs her way through it all. I can pretty much assure you that she and Baez cooked up the GA story together.

Not too sure about that. JA wrote that JB was OCA's mouth piece and OCA was the architect.
JB's O/S was a toned down version of what OCA told MH professionals.
And I wonder now if the reason that other attorneys left the DT team is because of a very obstinate OCA , and not JB. It was her way or the highway.

 

[Talina]

I didn't get that impression from Surprise Surprise - it seemed to me that it was an indifferent reply to Cindy's question - Cindy appeared to be the one who was afraid and hoping that a drowning did not happen. But as usual, her daughter gave a flippant answer.

I got an impression similar to yours. I thought Cindy was telling her this is what the latest is, hoping Casey would discount it - heavy sigh for Cindy, she still has hope Caylee is alive. It was an indirect way for Cindy to ask Casey if this happened by saying this is the latest in the media.

That might have planted a seed in Casey's mind to later use as many of her lies seem to have just been bits and pieces of prior actual events or conversations.

IMO

 

[Solace]

GA knew exactly how evil his daughter was the the minute he found out she duct taped and suffocated Caylee to death. GA had plenty of time to be Caylee's hero by simply telling the truth, he did not. Caylee is the victim. GA is not.

I am looking at the bigger picture. GA lied for years for Caylee’s killer. He knew the rare Henkel duct tape was his. He knew Caylee died a heinous tortuous death and was thrown out like garbage. What did he do? He lied, he made money off of her death (CA/GA sold pictures too), he blamed innocent people, he (along with his family) set up three foundations…total scam, and he turned his back on Caylee to support her killer.

George defended FCA at Caylee’s funeral, asking people to write letters of support to her after he knew exactly what FCA did to Caylee. GA did not let a little thing like murder, duct tape, swamp, dump, torture, or scavengers stop him from supporting FCA. GA knew FCA drove around with Caylee’s corpse in that car like it was just a piece of trash to be dumped at her convenience.

GA sat side by side with Cindy during all those interviews lying over and over and over again. The smell of death became pizza (ops no pizza) so the smell of death turned into garbage. I could go on but GA told his share of lies. He continued to put money in that monster’s commissary account for years after knowing what happened to Caylee in her last moments on earth and the desecration of her body after death.

GA was downright rude and combative during the Morgan deposition. There was no outrage from GA when FCA falsely accused ZG. He refused to admit FCA did not contribute anything toward basic items such as food, clothing, etc. Considering Caylee’s life was snuffed out by FCA, it seemed like such a trivial and ridiculous thing to argue about, everyone knew FCA hadn’t worked in years. The same combative GA showed himself at FCA’s trial too, arguing over duct tape.

GA already knew FCA told detailed lies about LA (George’s own son) molesting her in the jailhouse letters. FCA hinted that GA was a molester too. Molestation accusations were not new and it wasn’t a stretch for FCA to say he molested or even killed Caylee. After all, she killed her own child and didn't miss a beat with her party life.

So, after all these years, what really upset him the most? What finally made him stop supporting FCA---she accused him. It was a disgusting lie but Caylee is the victim. GA is not. FCA will have another child and that child will pay too---thanks in part to GA.

I will never give that jury a pass because they had enough to serve up the DP but GA and CA’s lies directly contributed to that verdict.

IMO

You're right. He knew everything.

I did not know the Foundations were a total scam. Have heard it but I don't know that it has been proven by anyone. It may very well have been, I just don't know that much about it.

But you are right, George knew his daughter Killed his granddaughter and he went along because of Cindy.

I think Lee and George (during the last 911 call) watched Cindy fall apart and decided they were going to go along with what cindy wanted because it was too painful to do anything else.

Either way, George knew the truth - and so did Cindy and does.

 

[Solace]

Yes.. she told JA privately she regretted getting involved because of the lack of coherant management on the defense team and referred to it as an insane situation.

Who is AF

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Well, I've read every post and seen JA on some of his interviews. I've even unblocked Dr. Phil to record his interview of Ashton.

Now, all I need is the book! We got a delivery from Amazon.com yesterday and I tore into the box with glee, only to find a tablecloth and a book my DH ordered. Rats!