UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[lee sumner]

The police case seems to be that JC was oiling up to SJL, equipping himself with props such as a BMW and a reasonable suit, and misrepping himself as a successful business person having probably chatted her up in some Fulham wine bar. They presumably connect this with her remarks to relatives that someone was putting pressure on her. The proof of all this is that his nickname in jail was supposedly Kipper, and the number plate he put on SB's car, and he looks like the e-fit although was never on any identity parade, and the houses for sale rapist, and his former mate snitched on him and said he had access to a red Sierra and a BMW. That's about it.

Problem is, the CPS said that the police have produced no evidence JC and SJL ever met. If they can't prove they ever met this all falls to bits and must all be hearsay. You can't put someone in the dock on the basis of hearsay.

Cannan's no doubt a plausible suspect but my issue with him is threefold. One, there are literally hundreds of other equally plausible suspects. A hundred rapists had been released from the three local prisons that year. About 4,000 rapists a year were being jailed at that time, when London had 13% of the UK population. So every year, over 500 active rapists from London were jailed, and GOK how many more were out there, still uncaught. Have they all been eliminated? Why can't SJL have fallen victim to one of them?

Two, if we look at how JC came into the frame, it wasn't off solid evidence but via DL. He was looked at around the time of his conviction for SB's murder and it went no further. A microwave repair man who worked with prisoners revived this idea in 2000 and sold it to DL, who was probably suffering from early dementia and demanded that the police do JC for it.

Three, if we look at how JD reinvestigated the case, he told DV that the suspect list was all the previous names plus JC. They re-eliminated all the previous names, which left Cannan, therefore it must have been Cannan. It was that rigorous. The quality of the case against him that's been made public is so poor it's discreditable to the police IMO.

The upshot was that the police couldn't show JC and SJL ever met, the CPS rejected the case, the police then huffily said JC's the only suspect anyway, and this made DL happy.

To add to the adove there was another rape carried out in the same month in Putney tube station toilets. This appears to have been a different perpetrator, demonstrating just how many sex attackers seem to be in the area at the time.

that is very interesting. a rape carried out close to SL flat in putney. just goes to show all the scumbags in the area where SL lives and works. these should be classed as strong suspects like JC.

 

[Cherwell]

I highly suspect he is guilty of Sandra courts murder as the MO was the same as Shirley's

I can't see much similarity apart from both bodies being found in watercourses. Shirley died from blows to the head and Sandra was strangled "with minimum force".
Personally I've always thought the letter about Sandra's death sounded quite convincing.

Summaries from Wikipedia:

Shirley Banks, who was a newly married 29-year-old textiles factory manager from Clifton,was abducted on the evening of 8 October 1987 some time after 7:40 pm while out on a shopping trip to the Broadmead centre. Her husband searched for her in bars when she failed to return home, as they had agreed to meet for a drink; when he rang her work the next morning, he was told she had just phoned in sick with an upset stomach 15 minutes earlier. When she again failed to return home, he called the police. Police believe that Banks was held overnight in Cannan's flat and that he then persuaded her to phone in sick to her work, after pretending he was going to release her.

Sandra Court had been dropped off by a taxi driver in Throop*, Dorset near her sister's house after a night out, but her sister was not at home. She was last seen walking barefoot, appearing slightly drunk, at around 2:45 a.m. Court's body was found the next day in a water-filled ditch several miles away.

[I don't know where they got Throop from. It's nowhere near the Avon Causeway where her body was found. The report in the Southern Evening Echo says "Sandra took a taxi from the club and was dropped off at her sisters home in Downton Close on the Muscliff Estate in Bournemouth at about 2.45am." This is much more specific.]

 

[WiseOwl]

I can't see much similarity apart from both bodies being found in watercourses. Shirley died from blows to the head and Sandra was strangled "with minimum force".
Personally I've always thought the letter about Sandra's death sounded quite convincing.

Summaries from Wikipedia:

Shirley Banks, who was a newly married 29-year-old textiles factory manager from Clifton,was abducted on the evening of 8 October 1987 some time after 7:40 pm while out on a shopping trip to the Broadmead centre. Her husband searched for her in bars when she failed to return home, as they had agreed to meet for a drink; when he rang her work the next morning, he was told she had just phoned in sick with an upset stomach 15 minutes earlier. When she again failed to return home, he called the police. Police believe that Banks was held overnight in Cannan's flat and that he then persuaded her to phone in sick to her work, after pretending he was going to release her.

Sandra Court had been dropped off by a taxi driver in Throop*, Dorset near her sister's house after a night out, but her sister was not at home. She was last seen walking barefoot, appearing slightly drunk, at around 2:45 a.m. Court's body was found the next day in a water-filled ditch several miles away.

[I don't know where they got Throop from. It's nowhere near the Avon Causeway where her body was found. The report in the Southern Evening Echo says "Sandra took a taxi from the club and was dropped off at her sisters home in Downton Close on the Muscliff Estate in Bournemouth at about 2.45am." This is much more specific.]

I can't see any similarities between the two cases, and i really don't think there was any resemblence between the 3 women either. It's very easy to say they all look like each other, so it must be JC that's responsible.

In the SC case, i do think that the letter could be plausable, a couple of years ago it came out that it might have been a friend of hers who committed the murder. The information was passed on to the Dorset Police, but i haven't seen any updates on MSM in recent times about this. Of course, it might all be speculation but you would hope that the police might at least look into it.

 

[WestLondoner]

The main grounds to suspect Cannan of the SC murder is that the red Sierra he used in 1986 was in Bournemouth that day. A pay-and-display ticket places the car there. Of course it doesn't place him there as its driver, although the chances of the same car being driven by two different murderers of similar women must be pretty low.

SC's killer clearly drove back towards London afterwards, because her possessions were found scattered along several miles of the route back that way, having clearly been chucked out of a moving car window. This detail for me undermines a recent anonymous confession. It also points somewhat to Cannan, because he is quite stupid, and scattering her possessions in this way was stupid. It makes it more likely they'll be found, not less, because there are more chances of someone else stumbling across one or other of her personal effects. Finding the rest of them, along the same road FGS, then means that the route the driver took can be worked out at least as far as direction. This seems just the kind of dumb thing Cannan would do.

At the risk of stating the obvious, Cannan could have murdered SB and SC but not SL. The two seem more of a matching pair to me. Given how dim Cannan is, if he'd killed SJL, she would probably have been found cunningly "hidden" in the bath at 37SR, or something.

In favour of the Cannan hypothesis, there is perhaps an item of "soft" evidence pointing to him, which is that from the end of 1980, he was attacking women on an almost continuous basis unless in jail. He raped his girlfriend on New Year's Eve 1980, raped a shop assistant in March 1981, did time, may have murdered SC in July 1986, then in October 1986 he raped a woman in her car. In October 1987 he tried to abduct JH and the next day he did abduct SB. So one can perhaps ask who he was assaulting in July 1986 if it was not SJL.

 

[Terryb808]

The main grounds to suspect Cannan of the SC murder is that the red Sierra he used in 1986 was in Bournemouth that day. A pay-and-display ticket places the car there. Of course it doesn't place him there as its driver, although the chances of the same car being driven by two different murderers of similar women must be pretty low.

SC's killer clearly drove back towards London afterwards, because her possessions were found scattered along several miles of the route back that way, having clearly been chucked out of a moving car window. This detail for me undermines a recent anonymous confession. It also points somewhat to Cannan, because he is quite stupid, and scattering her possessions in this way was stupid. It makes it more likely they'll be found, not less, because there are more chances of someone else stumbling across one or other of her personal effects. Finding the rest of them, along the same road FGS, then means that the route the driver took can be worked out at least as far as direction. This seems just the kind of dumb thing Cannan would do.

At the risk of stating the obvious, Cannan could have murdered SB and SC but not SL. The two seem more of a matching pair to me. Given how dim Cannan is, if he'd killed SJL, she would probably have been found cunningly "hidden" in the bath at 37SR, or something.

In favour of the Cannan hypothesis, there is perhaps an item of "soft" evidence pointing to him, which is that from the end of 1980, he was attacking women on an almost continuous basis unless in jail. He raped his girlfriend on New Year's Eve 1980, raped a shop assistant in March 1981, did time, may have murdered SC in July 1986, then in October 1986 he raped a woman in her car. In October 1987 he tried to abduct JH and the next day he did abduct SB. So one can perhaps ask who he was assaulting in July 1986 if it was not SJL.

This clearly makes a case for why the police believe JC killed SJL. However, thinking he did doesn’t prove anything and they have no evidence.
Do we really believe JC committed the perfect crime, I don’t.

 

[lee sumner]

I can't see much similarity apart from both bodies being found in watercourses. Shirley died from blows to the head and Sandra was strangled "with minimum force".
Personally I've always thought the letter about Sandra's death sounded quite convincing.

Summaries from Wikipedia:

Shirley Banks, who was a newly married 29-year-old textiles factory manager from Clifton,was abducted on the evening of 8 October 1987 some time after 7:40 pm while out on a shopping trip to the Broadmead centre. Her husband searched for her in bars when she failed to return home, as they had agreed to meet for a drink; when he rang her work the next morning, he was told she had just phoned in sick with an upset stomach 15 minutes earlier. When she again failed to return home, he called the police. Police believe that Banks was held overnight in Cannan's flat and that he then persuaded her to phone in sick to her work, after pretending he was going to release her.

Sandra Court had been dropped off by a taxi driver in Throop*, Dorset near her sister's house after a night out, but her sister was not at home. She was last seen walking barefoot, appearing slightly drunk, at around 2:45 a.m. Court's body was found the next day in a water-filled ditch several miles away.

[I don't know where they got Throop from. It's nowhere near the Avon Causeway where her body was found. The report in the Southern Evening Echo says "Sandra took a taxi from the club and was dropped off at her sisters home in Downton Close on the Muscliff Estate in Bournemouth at about 2.45am." This is much more spec

 

[lee sumner]

i read somewhere that sandra court may have been killed by some guy she knew. she was out with him at steppes night club. the letter sent to police does not sound like something JC would send. why would he stick his neck out by sending a letter to the detective on the case. it sounds like someone sandra court may have known. in the letter he said he did not mean to kill sandra, and people say she was strangled with minimum force, but it was enough force to kill the poor woman.

 

[WiseOwl]

The main grounds to suspect Cannan of the SC murder is that the red Sierra he used in 1986 was in Bournemouth that day. A pay-and-display ticket places the car there. Of course it doesn't place him there as its driver, although the chances of the same car being driven by two different murderers of similar women must be pretty low.

SC's killer clearly drove back towards London afterwards, because her possessions were found scattered along several miles of the route back that way, having clearly been chucked out of a moving car window. This detail for me undermines a recent anonymous confession. It also points somewhat to Cannan, because he is quite stupid, and scattering her possessions in this way was stupid. It makes it more likely they'll be found, not less, because there are more chances of someone else stumbling across one or other of her personal effects. Finding the rest of them, along the same road FGS, then means that the route the driver took can be worked out at least as far as direction. This seems just the kind of dumb thing Cannan would do.

At the risk of stating the obvious, Cannan could have murdered SB and SC but not SL. The two seem more of a matching pair to me. Given how dim Cannan is, if he'd killed SJL, she would probably have been found cunningly "hidden" in the bath at 37SR, or something.

In favour of the Cannan hypothesis, there is perhaps an item of "soft" evidence pointing to him, which is that from the end of 1980, he was attacking women on an almost continuous basis unless in jail. He raped his girlfriend on New Year's Eve 1980, raped a shop assistant in March 1981, did time, may have murdered SC in July 1986, then in October 1986 he raped a woman in her car. In October 1987 he tried to abduct JH and the next day he did abduct SB. So one can perhaps ask who he was assaulting in July 1986 if it was not SJL.

Have you got a link for where it states her possessions were found along several miles on the route back to London? I have not seen that before.

The local rag The Daily Echo published the following item in April 2008, and Sandra's things appeared to be found in or around the Bournemouth area:

Letter could bring justice 22 years later

Sandras body was found clothed, except for her shoes. She had been wearing a white blouse, wide black belt and black ski trousers.

Her handbag and jewellery were missing, though some of the items were found in the next few days. They included:

A necklace half a mile from where her body was found.
Her jacket near Bransgore.
A cosmetic bag in a New Forest car park.
Her photo card near Stoney Cross.
A shoe near Ringwood.
Part of her chequebook at Picket Post.

IMO It looks more like someone who lived locally, and knew these areas pretty well. Whoever it was probably panicked more than anything else when throwing these items away.

 

[Cherwell]

Have you got a link for where it states her possessions were found along several miles on the route back to London? I have not seen that before.

The local rag The Daily Echo published the following item in April 2008, and Sandra's things appeared to be found in or around the Bournemouth area:

Letter could bring justice 22 years later

Sandras body was found clothed, except for her shoes. She had been wearing a white blouse, wide black belt and black ski trousers.

Her handbag and jewellery were missing, though some of the items were found in the next few days. They included:

A necklace half a mile from where her body was found.
Her jacket near Bransgore.
A cosmetic bag in a New Forest car park.
Her photo card near Stoney Cross.
A shoe near Ringwood.
Part of her chequebook at Picket Post.

IMO It looks more like someone who lived locally, and knew these areas pretty well. Whoever it was probably panicked more than anything else when throwing these items away.

I agree, and it fits with someone heading through the New Forest area to Southampton. The letter was postmarked Southampton.

 

[RichardKimble]

JC has history of sexual assault, SC was not S assaulted, either JC was disturbed or more likely he's not responsible imo.