Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

[Beatrice]

Is there a photo of the trunk with this stain?

I could not see it.

 

[OneLostGrl]

This thread is a perfect candidate for a poll. I'm just not seeing it.

Yeah I don't see anything in the picture either.. and I'm not gonna allow myself to search for it cuz then I'll only be seeing something my mind has created based on the information I read.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I guess what I was trying to say is GA and the lot manager originally saw a basketball shaped stain in the middle of the trunk, which I was thinking would be more plate size. Then later the ALS test showed a stain that could be imagined as a child in a fetal position, which sounds a lot bigger than a plate. If the shape changed or grew in size, would it have been possibly by cleaning the trunk?

More proof of tampering with evidence by the A's.....

Sadly it doesn't even matter because their victim status has blinded LE (and others) to their true nature. They will not be held accountable for anything they have done. IMO

 

[OneLostGrl]

Is there a photo of the trunk with this stain?

I could not see it.

Yeah, there are links back a couple of pages in this thread.

 

[missyjane77]

Yeah, there are links back a couple of pages in this thread.

Actually, on page 3 of this thread, there is speculation that those pictures posted earlier are not actual crime scene photos, but photos posted by a member to demostrate the size of the trunk.

 

[AZlawyer]

Actually, on page 3 of this thread, there is speculation that those pictures posted earlier are not actual crime scene photos, but photos posted by a member to demostrate the size of the trunk.

It's not speculation, it's definite. The pictures where you can actually see anything are posted by members and are of different Sunfire trunks.

But there is one picture we have of KC's trunk. It is grainy and black & white and has "A" and "B" evidence markers showing. The links to "" are of the correct photo.

 

[celticthyme]

Is there a photo of the trunk with this stain?

I could not see it.

http://www..com/2009/09/view-picture-of-stain-shaped-like-childs-body-in-casey-anthonys-trunk/
the original has the "A" & "B" Markers and is black & white

 

[ZsaZsa]

I suppose the shape could have changed or grown in size by cleaning (fluids bleeding out like ink) - but I also think with cleaning the ALS could pick up the cleaning solvents as well. I know that bleach will show up under a black light, as will urine and semen. Really the issue here probably is what was visible to the naked eye vs. what is seen under ALS.

There might have been some bacteria or mold growing in that closed humid car too..... that could account for a change in the outline. With body fluids present it would be like a human Petri dish!

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Sadly it doesn't even matter because their victim status has blinded LE (and others) to their true nature. They will not be held accountable for anything they have done. IMO

Well, I looked and as bad as I wanted to see something incriminating, I didn't see anything. Not to say it isn't there, just, I don't see it on my monitor with my eyes. I never saw anything at the disposal site either, no skull, no books so I'm not a very good judge on these things.

 

[missyjane77]

It's not speculation, it's definite. The pictures where you can actually see anything are posted by members and are of different Sunfire trunks.

But there is one picture we have of KC's trunk. It is grainy and black & white and has "A" and "B" evidence markers showing. The links to "" are of the correct photo.

Thank you for clarifying. I didn't see where a final conclusion had been drawn. :innocent:

 

[LCoastMom]

Well, if GA did find Caylee's body (which could have been in the empty wheel well) and dropped it off on Suburban road, I would think he would want it hidden in plain sight. He probably knew she would be arrested and keeping Caylee's body close by would also allow someone to find her while KC was in jail, thus confusing chain of custody, or perhaps allow contamination of the scene, which he knew would be useful.

It might also explain why information or "rumors" might have been leaked to strategic local people who would try to look for her. To me, GA had every reason to want Caylee's body found quickly and KC and JB could have no possible interest in finding it as long as a kidnapping scenario could be drawn out as long as possible. In fact, it would be a strike against KC if the body were found at all, since that would elevate "missing" to "murdered".

If KC confessed to an accident while she was in jail, which he may have been hoping she'd do when he tried to set up the visit with detectives on Aug 14, when JB was safely out of town, then she would not get a long sentence. If not, then he may have thought it would be difficult to prove KC placed her there. She was clearly angry at her parents in the jail visit when they asked for help in finding her. Almost as if she was saying "why are you asking ME?".

I think there is enough of a possibility this occurred to make it an alternate scenario; I haven't made up my mind yet altogether, however. And we just may never know the truth. As we all know, the truth and the Anthonys are strangers. Maybe more like enemies.

I thought KC's displeasure over her parents questions, was more of an indignation at being accused (in her mind) which she was just not standing for from anyone, not friends, parents, LE, Judge, DA, the FBI, she didn't care. She was not going to be tricked into confessing... I didn't get the feeling that was her parents motive, but maybe guilt made her think it was.

I know we have all gone over the possibilities, pretty much until they were coming out of our ears, without coming to any agreement.

I still think CA didn't know Caylee was "missing" when she picked KC up from ToNE's. Remember Amy was in the car when they started duking it out.

Then there is the question "What have you done?" when she overheard KC and Lee talking, before the 3rd 911 call, and CA's hysteria in the 911 call heard round the world. I have long felt those calls were the last time we heard any real truths coming out of her mouth.

And George; the day someone confronted him about decomp being found in the trunk, I thought he was going to stroke out (or strike out) when he yelled "That is not my granddaughter..." I know that wasn't a perfect quote but I think you know what I mean.

Has there ever been talk about a video or possibly just audio, from the first time KC was arrested? Something she said to her parents in a visit made me think when they got her to the station to arrest her, she was not so composed as she normally tries to act in front of LE.

I sincerely believe CA has gone over the top, and I'm not sure she will ever be back, she has just gotten more and more bizarre as time has gone by. Like you, I still have more questions than answers and I don't think we will ever get anything remotely resembling the truth from Camp KC.

I pray daily that Caylee didn't suffer, but honestly I'm not holding on to that hope by more than a tiny thread. The use of duct tape across that precious face says so much about KC's feelings for Caylee. If she was suffering or not wasn't of concern to KC...

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[LCoastMom]

Well, I looked and as bad as I wanted to see something incriminating, I didn't see anything. Not to say it isn't there, just, I don't see it on my monitor with my eyes. I never saw anything at the disposal site either, no skull, no books so I'm not a very good judge on these things.

How about the kitten? Did you see the kitten? :winko:

As it turned out those of us who admitted to seeing nothing, were the ones who saw what was there. Those first pictures, were pictures of nothing. No book, no skull pix, just leaves, lots and lots of decomposing leaves. Sorry HP, no kitty's either... Oh there was that 1 piece of yellow paper that that went thru several possible incarnations for a few days...

The outline is being seen by a professional, this is what he does. And even he said it must be set up with specific shading on the computer. I think GA seeing an imperfect circular shape in natural but overcast light, doesn't mean it was was a different shape, size or anything than he described. Under the conditions he was looking at it. When I looked at the picture at Caylee Daily, I thought I saw the outline, but it turned out to be opposite of the outline that someone drew on there. Who's right? IDK...

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[Harmony 2]

Link to LIBS test:
http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/1024/17794795.pdf

LIBS was done on the surface of the trunk liner. It tests for inorganic compounds actually on the the liner. The air test was done on vapors released from the trunk liner after it was closed up in a bag.

Dr. Vass mentioned to YM in an email he detected pinene and limonene in the air samples. He asked about any swampy areas. I'm thinking more along the lines of orange cleaner. It contains limonene, a powerful degreaser. Given that VFAs are fatty acids, orange cleaner would dissolve them. Would it eliminate them? not sure.

IMO on the orange cleaner

Great post... your theory on orange cleaner is food for thought...

Reading over the LIBS report I noted the following:

page 27 states (paraphrasing) post-mortem interval is best determined using volatile fatty acids or VFAs (mentioned in the article I posted) but can be done in a crude fashion using inorganic elements. Moreover, it says results are preliminary. VFA analysis needs to be completed. Hopefully we will see more about testing done on the stain in the next doc dump next week. (Unless I missed it I did not see it in the last sets released.)


(above is my interpretation of page 27.)

http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/1024/17794795.pdf

 

[treeseeker]

Great post... your theory on orange cleaner is food for thought...

Reading over the LIBS report I noted the following:

page 27 states (paraphrasing) post-mortem interval is best determined using volatile fatty acids or VFAs (mentioned in the article I posted) but can be done in a crude fashion using inorganic elements. Moreover, it says results are preliminary. VFA analysis needs to be completed. Hopefully we will see more about testing done on the stain in the next doc dump next week. (Unless I missed it I did not see it in the last sets released.)


(above is my interpretation of page 27.)

http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/1024/17794795.pdf

I haven't seen a VFA analysis either, but I haven't been through but about half of the doc releases.

The problem with this line of thinking (pool water=stain and orange cleaner) is that it doesn't account for the odor. But honestly, nothing we've seen so far does. I wonder if there is a reservoir of some sort in the underbelly of the car - maybe created by a manufacturing mold-release hole?

ETA: thanks Harmony2

 

[Beatrice]

http://www..com/2009/09/view-picture-of-stain-shaped-like-childs-body-in-casey-anthonys-trunk/
the original has the "A" & "B" Markers and is black & white

Wow! Thank you!

 

[Hot Dogs]

I don't think that we can be sure that the trunk photo being analyzed in this thread is the same photo in which FBI agent Karen Cowen saw the alleged fetal-position outline.

I've attached a portion of this FBI doc.

When Cowen speaks of photos of the trunk processing, she does it in plural. That makes sense. There are probably many photos of the intact trunk (liners in) as well as photos of the liners after being removed from the trunk. In this doc, we are given the file name for the specific photo she is talking about... IMG_2214.JPG. That could help if we can know the file names of the photos that have been released to the public (almost certainly this is not all photos taken).

Potentially, of all the trunk processing photos that Cowen looked at, she could see the outline in only one.

How do we know that we are looking at that same photo?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Actually, on page 3 of this thread, there is speculation that those pictures posted earlier are not actual crime scene photos, but photos posted by a member to demostrate the size of the trunk.

It's not speculation, it's definite. The pictures where you can actually see anything are posted by members and are of different Sunfire trunks.

But there is one picture we have of KC's trunk. It is grainy and black & white and has "A" and "B" evidence markers showing. The links to "" are of the correct photo.

That's the "link" I was refering to. Someone posted a link to the Caylee daily a couple pages back.

 

[Tulessa]

I can see what COULD be the outline of a child, but after years of investigating the paranormal, I am simply chalking this one up to matrixing.

 

[LCoastMom]

I can see what COULD be the outline of a child, but after years of investigating the paranormal, I am simply chalking this one up to matrixing.

Tulessa

What I know about the paranormal you could put in a thimble and still have room!

What I have felt that had no other explanation, IDK, I lost count. Someone back last fall said they felt the odor in the car was Caylee refusing not to be acknowledged. At that point LE really doubted she was going to be found. Tim M was still holding on to GOD's time not man's time.

For as little "physical evidence" as that car has given up the person who made the comment didn't feel there was enough left in the car for the amount of odor that just didn't want to dissipate. I would love to know if the reek has gotten less after Caylee's remains were found!!??

Regardless of what they find/found in that car I agree with you and the person who made that observation last fall.

I hope the odor remains until the day that witch is found guilty and sentenced for the last time, to be juiced.
I hope the DA brings the jury out to see the car and Oh my, whatever could that be? Leftover pizza anyone ???

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[Truthwillsetufree]

[/B]

How about the kitten? Did you see the kitten? :winko:

As it turned out those of us who admitted to seeing nothing, were the ones who saw what was there. Those first pictures, were pictures of nothing. No book, no skull pix, just leaves, lots and lots of decomposing leaves. Sorry HP, no kitty's either... Oh there was that 1 piece of yellow paper that that went thru several possible incarnations for a few days...

The outline is being seen by a professional, this is what he does. And even he said it must be set up with specific shading on the computer. I think GA seeing an imperfect circular shape in natural but overcast light, doesn't mean it was was a different shape, size or anything than he described. Under the conditions he was looking at it. When I looked at the picture at Caylee Daily, I thought I saw the outline, but it turned out to be opposite of the outline that someone drew on there. Who's right? IDK...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ​

Well it wasn't for lack of trying, I enlarged pictures, squinted, turned my laptop sideways, upside down, stood back 2 feet, gave thought to standing on my head *then thought better of it*. I really wanted to see something incriminating, verifiable, an AHA moment, just didn't get it. Once the picture of the trunk with the evidence markers and someone "outlined" what they were describing then you could say ok, maybe but before the outline, my eyes were all over the place looking for the outline of a child. Hopefully the FBI will have a way to show the jury a better image.