State Motion to recover Investigative Costs

[LambChop]

The problem with KC's lies is that she seemed delighted with herself. jmo

 

[Kavya01]

"OMG I am SUCH a good Liar!! "

 

[Kavya01]

Some days I wish they had given her 2000 hours of community service. THAT would have been a delight. For the rest of the world and rotten tomatoes that is.

 

[Omachka]

As someone who works in law enforcement, I can answer that question. When you lie to LE, you're wasting their time. We have limited resources as it is, and it takes away from other cases, other crimes, and other victims when people deliberately thwart LE. Citizens who truly want LE's help do not lie to officers, by the way.

Lying wastes not only police resources, but taxpayers' money. We as taxpayers are providing the funds to keep LE functioning (essentially, as I live and work in the same city, I pay my own salary!). So when you write, "It's their job," you forget that the taxpayers pay for that job. And I don't think any taxpayer wants to see their hard-earned money go to waste instead of providing help to actual victims who need it.

Very well-said. Thank you pinup. :rocker:

 

[Kavya01]

As someone who works in law enforcement, I can answer that question. When you lie to LE, you're wasting their time. We have limited resources as it is, and it takes away from other cases, other crimes, and other victims when people deliberately thwart LE. Citizens who truly want LE's help do not lie to officers, by the way.

Lying wastes not only police resources, but taxpayers' money. We as taxpayers are providing the funds to keep LE functioning (essentially, as I live and work in the same city, I pay my own salary!). So when you write, "It's their job," you forget that the taxpayers pay for that job. And I don't think any taxpayer wants to see their hard-earned money go to waste instead of providing help to actual victims who need it.

Ithink if Tim Miller and TES 's lawsuit ever get to court that that will hit this fact home more directly for many. IIRC part of his suit is the claim that there WERE actually families asking for his help whose kids WERE actually missing while the felon and her family wasted all his time. And resources. And energy. and Spirit.

 

[Omachka]

As someone who works in law enforcement, I can answer that question. When you lie to LE, you're wasting their time. We have limited resources as it is, and it takes away from other cases, other crimes, and other victims when people deliberately thwart LE. Citizens who truly want LE's help do not lie to officers, by the way.

Lying wastes not only police resources, but taxpayers' money. We as taxpayers are providing the funds to keep LE functioning (essentially, as I live and work in the same city, I pay my own salary!). So when you write, "It's their job," you forget that the taxpayers pay for that job. And I don't think any taxpayer wants to see their hard-earned money go to waste instead of providing help to actual victims who need it.

quoting you a second time 1) because what you've said bears repeating often and 2) because I found the article I was looking for about just how much Florida can't afford to allow someone to squander all this money on lies to LE and the courts. Do you remember the hearing that was postponed because Judge Perry was in Tallahassee trying to get some emergency funds to just keep the courthouse open? Remember the tax payers paid for both the prosecution and the defense in this case... none of which would have been necessary if the truth had been told.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_court-system-chief-judges-funding-reprieve

 

[krkrjx]

That is true, and they probably won't, I just would not like to see the precedent set that might tempt prosecutors across the country to try to use this in the future. Obviously from the lack of case law, it has not been pushed to these limits very often.

It is actually a fairly new concept. There are cases where people are charged the costs incurred by law enforcement or rescue teams when they do something that causes those costs to be incurred. Lying and causing an investigation that spans many days or weeks, such is in the case of the run-away bride, or hoaxes that result in emergency rescue teams being sent out, such as the balloon-boy hoax, are some examples.

Not every jurisdiction is yet going through the process of collection but it is becoming more and more common. I think it is a good thing for several reasons, one of which is that most municipalities have budget problems these days and unnecessary investigation or unneccessary search and rescue are huge expenses on already-strained budgets.

 

[LambChop]

And once you let one person get away with it, it becomes an accepted practice. I loved it when CM said SA is going after the money because of "sour grapes". lol CM is the one stuck with KC. She is no longer the State of Florida's problem. I saw KC's sweater advertised on eBay bidding starting at $5,000. Defense must be desperate for money. Even with a $5,000 price tag to start the bidding they also want you to pay a $25.00 shipping charge. How funny is that???

No one likes your client, CM. CM paints KC as a saint and victum. The State has a person grudge against his princess. I also loved it when CM brought up the money issue regarding all the pro-bono time the other attorneys had to put in. Well, hello, Mr. CM if the young and inexperienced Mr. JB had shared some of the money he made on Caylee's pictures with his co-counsel that would never been a problem, now would it?

I sometimes think CM thinks that HHJP doesn't have a brain in his head. And from the looks HHJP was shooting at CM today it appears Judge Perry's brain is fully engaged. lol jmo

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

It is a good hypothetical, because I thought about it for the last hour as I picked a mountain of tomatoes and beans in my garden.

I think we have to set strong penalties for lying to police. We can't really function as a society if we do not consider honesty a core value. Police investigations seem to consist largely of conversations with citizens. If they cannot get honest answers, their ability to uncover the truth is significantly hindered.

I don't have an elegant answer for why the state must seek reimbursement in this case. All I can say is that in your hypothetical the woman lied to preserve her safety in a situation where she was powerless.

FCA was in no danger, and she had ample power to help herself. Her lie was unnecessary and embellished way beyond the point of substituting one location for another. Big fat lies all over the place, here. She was also given many opportunities to correct her initial mistruth, and she was told about the consequences of persisting in her lie. She lied for only 1 reason- she had to or she would be found out due to the evidence that was in the process of deteriorating.

I can think of other situations when a person would lie to the police to protect their safety, but I can't think of a single situation, other than guilt, why a perfectly "safe" person would lie given these circumstances. Mental illness, I guess- which was implied, but not substantiated at trial.

I'd hope that any judge considering this as precedent would employ some discretion about pursuing reimbursement. I don't know what the legal angle is on this type of discretion.

I'd also like to add that the lie was not fully exposed until the trial. The police could have considered that the bogus nanny was somehow implicated in the death of Caylee, upon finding her remains. FCA was the only person who could clear up the confusion. Her parents continued to supply new tidbits and admonishments to the police about pursuing the wrong angle on her behalf.

Thanks for something to think about.

One reason I enjoy WS is that many posts make me think I am glad I gave you something to think about while working in your garden. Thank you for returning the favor, as I now am thinking about your response.

I wholeheartedly agree that lying to the police hinders police work, and there should be strong penalties for doing so. Lying in court should have penalties as well, and perjury can harm a prosecutors case, sometimes even negating good police work.

I have no problem with penalties for lying to police or in court. The problem though, lies (no pun intended) with making the punishment fit the lie isn't it?

Now, because your post has made me continue to think about all this, I had a thought that the DT did not argue today, and maybe they should have. KC did not make the 911 call. CA called Caylee in missing. Yes, KC lied when she confirmed Caylee was missing to the police dispatcher. She wasn't charged with lying to the police dispatcher though. The state contends that, butfor KC's lies to the officers at the theme park, all investigations stemmed from those lies. This is not true. Once they had confirmed KC's lies were lies, they still were following up on CA's 911 call about Caylee being missing. If KC had just pleaded the 5th, the officers would not have had to investigate the four lies, which pretty much were confirmed to be lies before they ever left the theme park, but they still would have pursued looking for Caylee because CA had reported her missing. So, the cost of proving those four lies should be charged to KC. Once those lies were confirmed to be lies, which was very early on, the investigation would have continued not because of the lies, but because CA called 911, and they had not yet located Caylee.

I really am looking forward to hearing HHBP cite the law, and why he is issuing an order for KC to pay xxxxxx amount of dollars.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[lowens1975]

CM said something today that struck my funny bone. Complaining about KC spending 3 years in jail, she could have been out working.

:floorlaugh: That is funny, KC with a JOB. When she lied for a year and half about having one. I missed the hearing this morning and really contemplated not watching, but if CM has his hackles up and postulating at the podium again, I gotta go watch. :rocker:

 

[LambChop]

One reason I enjoy WS is that many posts make me think I am glad I gave you something to think about while working in your garden. Thank you for returning the favor, as I now am thinking about your response.

I wholeheartedly agree that lying to the police hinders police work, and there should be strong penalties for doing so. Lying in court should have penalties as well, and perjury can harm a prosecutors case, sometimes even negating good police work.

I have no problem with penalties for lying to police or in court. The problem though, lies (no pun intended) with making the punishment fit the lie isn't it?

Now, because your post has made me continue to think about all this, I had a thought that the DT did not argue today, and maybe they should have. KC did not make the 911 call. CA called Caylee in missing. Yes, KC lied when she confirmed Caylee was missing to the police dispatcher. She wasn't charged with lying to the police dispatcher though. The state contends that, butfor KC's lies to the officers at the theme park, all investigations stemmed from those lies. This is not true. Once they had confirmed KC's lies were lies, they still were following up on CA's 911 call about Caylee being missing. If KC had just pleaded the 5th, the officers would not have had to investigate the four lies, which pretty much were confirmed to be lies before they ever left the theme park, but they still would have pursued looking for Caylee because CA had reported her missing. So, the cost of proving those four lies should be charged to KC. Once those lies were confirmed to be lies, which was very early on, the investigation would have continued not because of the lies, but because CA called 911, and they had not yet located Caylee.

I really am looking forward to hearing HHBP cite the law, and why he is issuing an order for KC to pay xxxxxx amount of dollars.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

But let's not forget that the defense were the ones who were going on TV and claiming that LE was only investigating KC. KC was saying LE had gotten it all wrong. At one point, until all the testing was in, they believed it was possible that KC was lying to protect whoever had Caylee. Gameplaying should not give an offender an advantage, ever. LE was at a big disadvantage because KC lied, LA lied, GA lied, CA lied. You would think at the very least the grandparents would have cooperated with the truth. jmo

 

[wonders]

There isn't a whole lot I worry about these days LOL.
This case is definately unusual. As far as the hearing today, I had never read or heard of this type of thing happening before, and I now know why, it has never happened before. The case law they cited, was only vaguely similar in substance, and there was very little case law to cite from, which is why I had never heard of this before.

I am completely confident in HHBP following the letter of the law. I am looking forward to his decision, but I really don't see him giving an order for KC to pay the entire $515,000 the state is asking. I have been wrong before, and very well could be wrong now, I just see the amount being much much less.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

FIRST BBM
Glad to read that thedeviledadvocate.

SECOND BBM
I guess I'm not surprised about it. Here where I live if search and rescue go on a call that isn't kosher the people have to pay it back. I think it's a great idea in CFCA's case. Just think of all the hard work that went into looking for Caylee and CFCA could care less to this day what her lying did.

THIRD BBM
There is no way I'm going to get my hopes up again in this case. CFCA has already gotten away with murder and a small smack on the wrist for everything else, so it wouldn't surprise me that she gets away with this too.

 

[wonders]

The fundamental question is, why sit in jail for 3 years while charged with Murder 1 and facing the DP and allow your child to rot in the swamp ... If this was simply an accident?

The DT can try to trivialize this but the stakes were high and yet FCA remained defiant and resolute -- why?, because she was seeking to get away with murder and lied to do so.

I have asked that question more than once and I agree with your whole post.

 

[wonders]

The DT had high hopes that some searcher had a criminal history involving kidnapping or a crime against a child. The DT was voracious in their attempt to find just one volunteer with a "record suitable for framing". Pun intended.

The money expended by the JAC was overwhelmingly used for investigative costs.

The stalking of volunteers by the investigators was all in hopes of finding just one to blame.

When nothing usable or hinky was found, they were forced to revert to the original Roy Kronk story. Remember they laid off him for a wee while.

Do I think the drowning story was the plan from day one? Nope.......but it was their last chance and sadly...it paid off.

I'd like my money back please.

YES! And the DT was still investigating at the end of the trial, remember the guy with a record that had the same phone number that GA had called.

 

[allycat1208]

If it is decided that Casey has to pay for all the investigation costs, won't she just claim bankruptcy with the help of one of her attorneys? What's the point? oh...I just recalled she can make some money with an interview and pay that off right away. I wonder why she's not interviewing yet. Is she waiting for the civil trial and lying convictions to be finished with before she lies on tv?

 

[allycat1208]

The fundamental question is, why sit in jail for 3 years while charged with Murder 1 and facing the DP and allow your child to rot in the swamp ... If this was simply an accident?

The DT can try to trivialize this but the stakes were high and yet FCA remained defiant and resolute -- why?, because she was seeking to get away with murder and lied to do so.

I suppose she expects everyone to believe that Caylee died after drowning and went missing after she drowned and she didn't know she was in the swamp. Maybe this is an excuse for allowing the investigation to go on? Its all so bloody ludicrous!

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

FIRST BBM
Glad to read that thedeviledadvocate.

SECOND BBM
I guess I'm not surprised about it. Here where I live if search and rescue go on a call that isn't kosher the people have to pay it back. I think it's a great idea in CFCA's case. Just think of all the hard work that went into looking for Caylee and CFCA could care less to this day what her lying did.

THIRD BBM
There is no way I'm going to get my hopes up again in this case. CFCA has already gotten away with murder and a small smack on the wrist for everything else, so it wouldn't surprise me that she gets away with this too.

I don't think HHBP will let her leave empty handed. I do think he will issue an order for her to pay some of the costs. In fact, I think he will make her pay as many of the costs he feels he legally can, according to the law.

He may smack her down with the entire half a million, but if everyone that has threatened truly boycotts anything KC, the smack down will get little results. She is the most hated woman in America, with no diploma, and who would hire her anyway, even if she gets her GED and some college. Sure, sometime maybe 10 years down the road, she may be able to live a semi normal life, but with her education, a half dozen felonies, 4 misdemeanors, and a not so great reputation, her chances of any kind of income above poverty level is slim to none, provided the majority holds on to their hatred and enforces the boycott.

The same will go for the civil suits. If they win the suits against her, they will get a judgement, but again, she is indigent, and you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. Her life will likely never be what most of us would call normal, and with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt hanging over her head, what motivation does she really have in trying to make something of herself. No matter how successful she became, she would still be living at the poverty level, because the judgements would take all her money.

Do I feel sorry for her. NO. I do feel sorry for the taxpayers of Florida, and for any people that will not get the help they may have gotten from TES because KC couldn't pay back what TES spent searching for Caylee.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[Baznme]

I just went out to Ebay to peek at that sweater that's up for auction for 5K and I posed the following question to the seller after reading the description of the item.

Description:

A member of the Casey Anthony defense team was instructed on day one of the Caylee Anthony Murder trial in Orlando Florida to give her Sweater to Casey to wear in Court. Casey was cold in the Court room and Jose Beaz asked one of his Legal Aides to give her sweater to Casey. Casey Wore this Sweater through Opening Statements and through-out the entire trial. She can be seen wearing it on all Court footage. She wore it alomst every day. It has not been washed and has been perserved since Casey herself returned it to the Legal Assisant.

Question posed to seller:

If I understand your listing for this item correctly, this sweater is in the possession of the legal aide that lent it to Casey and they were on the defense team, correct? Ms. Anthony is fighting through attorneys as we speak to NOT have to reimburse Florida for court costs and yet there are items being sold on Ebay by members of her defense team?

____________________________________________

I'll probably get canned from Ebay but, I just couldn't hold my tongue. Unbelievable?

 

[wonders]

CM said something today that struck my funny bone. Complaining about KC spending 3 years in jail, she could have been out working. Truth is if her DT knew Caylee's death was an accident they were the one's who were constantly delaying the trial, running up bills for the State. One excuse after another. SA said they were ready for trial early on. The time she spent in jail however was towards her conviction of lying and stealing. What would motivate an attorney to drag a case out as long as he could when he knew he could win with an accidential death theory?

I don't think anyone should get away with lying to LE to this degree. It's time we stopped this type of behavior and made people accountable for their actions. jmo

Well, here I am hijacking the thread. Don't mean to. Just need to have my say I guess.
What gets me is why isn't the SAO office seeking perjury charges against CA? IMO she deserves to sit behind bars for a while too.

 

[Velouria]

Interesting you should ask. I'm rewatching CMs closing cuz I had to keep muting him there the first time. It's making my blood boil all over again. But yes, that's what CM is saying...that it should only be for when they were still investigating as missing persons.

:floorlaugh: Oh strawberry, you weren't the only one!

Listening to today's proceedings, I was visualizing a cross somewhere between Walter Brennan and Charlie Brown's teacher whenever CM spoke. And as for his demeanor - pompous as always...