As someone who works in law enforcement, I can answer that question. When you lie to LE, you're wasting their time. We have limited resources as it is, and it takes away from other cases, other crimes, and other victims when people deliberately thwart LE. Citizens who truly want LE's help do not lie to officers, by the way.
Lying wastes not only police resources, but taxpayers' money. We as taxpayers are providing the funds to keep LE functioning (essentially, as I live and work in the same city, I pay my own salary!). So when you write, "It's their job," you forget that the taxpayers pay for that job. And I don't think any taxpayer wants to see their hard-earned money go to waste instead of providing help to actual victims who need it.
As someone who works in law enforcement, I can answer that question. When you lie to LE, you're wasting their time. We have limited resources as it is, and it takes away from other cases, other crimes, and other victims when people deliberately thwart LE. Citizens who truly want LE's help do not lie to officers, by the way.
Lying wastes not only police resources, but taxpayers' money. We as taxpayers are providing the funds to keep LE functioning (essentially, as I live and work in the same city, I pay my own salary!). So when you write, "It's their job," you forget that the taxpayers pay for that job. And I don't think any taxpayer wants to see their hard-earned money go to waste instead of providing help to actual victims who need it.
As someone who works in law enforcement, I can answer that question. When you lie to LE, you're wasting their time. We have limited resources as it is, and it takes away from other cases, other crimes, and other victims when people deliberately thwart LE. Citizens who truly want LE's help do not lie to officers, by the way.
Lying wastes not only police resources, but taxpayers' money. We as taxpayers are providing the funds to keep LE functioning (essentially, as I live and work in the same city, I pay my own salary!). So when you write, "It's their job," you forget that the taxpayers pay for that job. And I don't think any taxpayer wants to see their hard-earned money go to waste instead of providing help to actual victims who need it.
That is true, and they probably won't, I just would not like to see the precedent set that might tempt prosecutors across the country to try to use this in the future. Obviously from the lack of case law, it has not been pushed to these limits very often.
It is a good hypothetical, because I thought about it for the last hour as I picked a mountain of tomatoes and beans in my garden.
I think we have to set strong penalties for lying to police. We can't really function as a society if we do not consider honesty a core value. Police investigations seem to consist largely of conversations with citizens. If they cannot get honest answers, their ability to uncover the truth is significantly hindered.
I don't have an elegant answer for why the state must seek reimbursement in this case. All I can say is that in your hypothetical the woman lied to preserve her safety in a situation where she was powerless.
FCA was in no danger, and she had ample power to help herself. Her lie was unnecessary and embellished way beyond the point of substituting one location for another. Big fat lies all over the place, here. She was also given many opportunities to correct her initial mistruth, and she was told about the consequences of persisting in her lie. She lied for only 1 reason- she had to or she would be found out due to the evidence that was in the process of deteriorating.
I can think of other situations when a person would lie to the police to protect their safety, but I can't think of a single situation, other than guilt, why a perfectly "safe" person would lie given these circumstances. Mental illness, I guess- which was implied, but not substantiated at trial.
I'd hope that any judge considering this as precedent would employ some discretion about pursuing reimbursement. I don't know what the legal angle is on this type of discretion.
I'd also like to add that the lie was not fully exposed until the trial. The police could have considered that the bogus nanny was somehow implicated in the death of Caylee, upon finding her remains. FCA was the only person who could clear up the confusion. Her parents continued to supply new tidbits and admonishments to the police about pursuing the wrong angle on her behalf.
Thanks for something to think about.
:floorlaugh: That is funny, KC with a JOB. When she lied for a year and half about having one. I missed the hearing this morning and really contemplated not watching, but if CM has his hackles up and postulating at the podium again, I gotta go watch. :rocker:CM said something today that struck my funny bone. Complaining about KC spending 3 years in jail, she could have been out working.
One reason I enjoy WS is that many posts make me thinkI am glad I gave you something to think about while working in your garden. Thank you for returning the favor, as I now am thinking about your response.
I wholeheartedly agree that lying to the police hinders police work, and there should be strong penalties for doing so. Lying in court should have penalties as well, and perjury can harm a prosecutors case, sometimes even negating good police work.
I have no problem with penalties for lying to police or in court. The problem though, lies (no pun intended) with making the punishment fit the lie isn't it?
Now, because your post has made me continue to think about all this, I had a thought that the DT did not argue today, and maybe they should have. KC did not make the 911 call. CA called Caylee in missing. Yes, KC lied when she confirmed Caylee was missing to the police dispatcher. She wasn't charged with lying to the police dispatcher though. The state contends that, butfor KC's lies to the officers at the theme park, all investigations stemmed from those lies. This is not true. Once they had confirmed KC's lies were lies, they still were following up on CA's 911 call about Caylee being missing. If KC had just pleaded the 5th, the officers would not have had to investigate the four lies, which pretty much were confirmed to be lies before they ever left the theme park, but they still would have pursued looking for Caylee because CA had reported her missing. So, the cost of proving those four lies should be charged to KC. Once those lies were confirmed to be lies, which was very early on, the investigation would have continued not because of the lies, but because CA called 911, and they had not yet located Caylee.
I really am looking forward to hearing HHBP cite the law, and why he is issuing an order for KC to pay xxxxxx amount of dollars.
As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
There isn't a whole lot I worry about these days LOL.
This case is definately unusual. As far as the hearing today, I had never read or heard of this type of thing happening before, and I now know why, it has never happened before. The case law they cited, was only vaguely similar in substance, and there was very little case law to cite from, which is why I had never heard of this before.
I am completely confident in HHBP following the letter of the law. I am looking forward to his decision, but I really don't see him giving an order for KC to pay the entire $515,000 the state is asking. I have been wrong before, and very well could be wrong now, I just see the amount being much much less.
As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
The fundamental question is, why sit in jail for 3 years while charged with Murder 1 and facing the DP and allow your child to rot in the swamp ... If this was simply an accident?
The DT can try to trivialize this but the stakes were high and yet FCA remained defiant and resolute -- why?, because she was seeking to get away with murder and lied to do so.
The DT had high hopes that some searcher had a criminal history involving kidnapping or a crime against a child. The DT was voracious in their attempt to find just one volunteer with a "record suitable for framing". Pun intended.
The money expended by the JAC was overwhelmingly used for investigative costs.
The stalking of volunteers by the investigators was all in hopes of finding just one to blame.
When nothing usable or hinky was found, they were forced to revert to the original Roy Kronk story. Remember they laid off him for a wee while.
Do I think the drowning story was the plan from day one? Nope.......but it was their last chance and sadly...it paid off.
I'd like my money back please.
The fundamental question is, why sit in jail for 3 years while charged with Murder 1 and facing the DP and allow your child to rot in the swamp ... If this was simply an accident?
The DT can try to trivialize this but the stakes were high and yet FCA remained defiant and resolute -- why?, because she was seeking to get away with murder and lied to do so.
FIRST BBM
Glad to read that thedeviledadvocate.
SECOND BBM
I guess I'm not surprised about it. Here where I live if search and rescue go on a call that isn't kosher the people have to pay it back. I think it's a great idea in CFCA's case. Just think of all the hard work that went into looking for Caylee and CFCA could care less to this day what her lying did.
THIRD BBM
There is no way I'm going to get my hopes up again in this case. CFCA has already gotten away with murder and a small smack on the wrist for everything else, so it wouldn't surprise me that she gets away with this too.
CM said something today that struck my funny bone. Complaining about KC spending 3 years in jail, she could have been out working. Truth is if her DT knew Caylee's death was an accident they were the one's who were constantly delaying the trial, running up bills for the State. One excuse after another. SA said they were ready for trial early on. The time she spent in jail however was towards her conviction of lying and stealing. What would motivate an attorney to drag a case out as long as he could when he knew he could win with an accidential death theory?
I don't think anyone should get away with lying to LE to this degree. It's time we stopped this type of behavior and made people accountable for their actions. jmo
Interesting you should ask. I'm rewatching CMs closing cuz I had to keep muting him there the first time. It's making my blood boil all over again. But yes, that's what CM is saying...that it should only be for when they were still investigating as missing persons.