State Motion to recover Investigative Costs

[knt]

Good Goobly-Goo! Trying to watch the hearing on WFTV is proving to be a taxing experience. Part one the sound cuts out, making you suddenly appreciate the poor sound quality that had been there before. Part Two, ok. Part Three stops in the middle and goes back to part one, with sound. Good luck!!

When the sound cut out I felt a great sense of relief, I couldn't take another second of CM's blathering, and truly needed a break.:crazy: I wish I could rewatch it with LDB's speaking parts only. You know, how they cut an actor's part out of a movie, just cut CM out of my version please!

 

[bonniez451]

You know I was thinking the same thing. Looks like some weight loss and that sparkle in his sweet eyes has faded some.

I believe imo that he does have some regret for letting the state push him into rushing some to get a jury picked because of budget woes.

 

[bonniez451]

I just can't stop being amazed how this one person has been able to slide on so much in her life and the lawyers that are not yelling their belief in her innocence. I have never seen any thing like this and it just keeps going on.

Love You Caylee Marie

 

[21merc7]

Shame the rat didn't simply stop at some stage, just as she did in the hallway at Universal, and say "ok, it's not true".
Instead, it was lie on top of lie on top of lie ... to the point where it had 'snowballed out of control' and there WAS no turning back.

Heheheh, look for a book out by FCA "The Script: By Zanny and her Band of Merry Kidnappers". :crazy: I am just joking of course.

I think HHJP will Order her to pay as much as he is legally allowed. I don't know how much that will be. I don't think it will get paid rapidly, considering the $20 per month to start in February. It may never get paid actually, but I have a feeling someone may just keep up with the payments that go to collections for this particular felon over the years though.

I was wondering if/when any income of FCA would be examined. I guess that is not happening??? Or will that happen on the ZFG, et al, law suits? There has to be some income for her to have a roof over her head, and if the OH pics were her, there is some income, now ebay and ugly sweaters is going on = more possible income.

 

[Well Done 99]

Heheheh, look for a book out by FCA "The Script: By Zanny and her Band of Merry Kidnappers". ...............
I was wondering if/when any income of FCA would be examined. I guess that is not happening??? .

+respectfully snipped+

:floorlaugh: 'Zanny and her Band of Merry Kidnappers' :floorlaugh: There's more than one? :floorlaugh:

I've been wondering - and maybe someone can help out - let's say monies paid to her are held in trust for a determined period or with conditions, would she still be obligated to make liability payments from that money or could she contend that it is inaccessible?

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

+respectfully snipped+

:floorlaugh: 'Zanny and her Band of Merry Kidnappers' :floorlaugh: There's more than one? :floorlaugh:

I've been wondering - and maybe someone can help out - let's say monies paid to her are held in trust for a determined period or with conditions, would she still be obligated to make liability payments from that money or could she contend that it is inaccessible?

FWIW One of the TH's last night, a former judge said there are a number of ways for KC's lawyers to legally hide money. He said, the Goldmans lawyers tried unsuccessfully for years in trying to get into to OJ's finances and get the Goldman's some or all of the 32 million they were awarded in the civil trial. He said, so far, they haven't been able to get anything from OJ.

I do not know if any of the above is true, I am just repeating what I recall being said by a talking head last night.

 

[strawberry]

CM is definately pizzed about the hit this is all taking to his own pocketbook. Not only is he not reaping the big bucks, he is being cost money. A "girl" with no job, no school, no prospects takes money to support. Besides that, IMO CM is pizzed because they are trying to rehabilitate his girl (so he can finally reap the big bucks). They all want to feel vindicated, to proclaim her innocence...but the public isn't buying it. Not only is the public not buying it, the probation issue, the cost issue are all reminders that she is NOT an innocent girl. She stole, she lied (ahem and murdered her baby IMO). CM is fighting a losing battle. And it's only going to get worse as all of the civil cases go on. IMO

 

[krkrjx]

FWIW One of the TH's last night, a former judge said there are a number of ways for KC's lawyers to legally hide money. He said, the Goldmans lawyers tried unsuccessfully for years in trying to get into to OJ's finances and get the Goldman's some or all of the 32 million they were awarded in the civil trial. He said, so far, they haven't been able to get anything from OJ.

I do not know if any of the above is true, I am just repeating what I recall being said by a talking head last night.

That info is correct; there are numerous ways to hide money so that it cannot be accessed by creditors, etc. But it's one thing to hide money from creditors and quite another to lie in a petition to any court (circuit, appellate, supreme) claiming indigence when that is not true. I am not sure anyone in authority will really check out Casey's indigence claims but if they do, there could be some more legal "issues" for Ms. Anthony and any of her team that might be involved in lying on a court document. That said, dishonest people will continue to be dishonest for as long as they can get away with it. I suspect if money is being hidden it is Baez handling it, and that may be why he is not involved in any of the current court petitions.

But that doesn't mean that others on her team who know what's going on are free from liability. That's if anyone would seriously check. And that is a big IF.

ETA: As for the civil suit filed agasinst OJ, even though the Goldmans could not collect, their suit helped put OJ in a position that led to his eventual downfall.

 

[atthelake]

Come to think of it...the whole family perpetrated the fraud that Caylee was missing. It's a shame the State of Florida can't recoup some of their losses from George and Cindy.

Yeah, to do that - Mason during this hearing would have had to state "and remember, as we stated in opening statements, that FCA didn't know where George took the body after Caylee drowned - so therefore HHJP, Casey isn't responsible for all the charges - George is the one that needs to be responsible." :floorlaugh: Guess he didn't think that HHJP was of the same ilk as the jurors......as we all know that at that sidebar one day he said to Mason "this isn't going to be another of your fantasies". Durn, wish I had that transcript in front of me right now to quote correctly. but ya get my drift.

 

[LinTX]

One reason I enjoy WS is that many posts make me think I am glad I gave you something to think about while working in your garden. Thank you for returning the favor, as I now am thinking about your response.

I wholeheartedly agree that lying to the police hinders police work, and there should be strong penalties for doing so. Lying in court should have penalties as well, and perjury can harm a prosecutors case, sometimes even negating good police work.

I have no problem with penalties for lying to police or in court. The problem though, lies (no pun intended) with making the punishment fit the lie isn't it?

Now, because your post has made me continue to think about all this, I had a thought that the DT did not argue today, and maybe they should have. KC did not make the 911 call. CA called Caylee in missing. Yes, KC lied when she confirmed Caylee was missing to the police dispatcher. She wasn't charged with lying to the police dispatcher though. The state contends that, butfor KC's lies to the officers at the theme park, all investigations stemmed from those lies. This is not true. Once they had confirmed KC's lies were lies, they still were following up on CA's 911 call about Caylee being missing. If KC had just pleaded the 5th, the officers would not have had to investigate the four lies, which pretty much were confirmed to be lies before they ever left the theme park, but they still would have pursued looking for Caylee because CA had reported her missing. So, the cost of proving those four lies should be charged to KC. Once those lies were confirmed to be lies, which was very early on, the investigation would have continued not because of the lies, but because CA called 911, and they had not yet located Caylee.

I really am looking forward to hearing HHBP cite the law, and why he is issuing an order for KC to pay xxxxxx amount of dollars.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Cindy initially called LE, but FCA filed the report once they arrived. She was convicted of lying about her job, the Zanny story, talking to Caylee on the 15th and for reporting the child missing in the first place. The job is the only one of those particular lies that wasn't an attempt by FCA to mislead the police into looking for a live, missing child - and the only one of the 4 they really knew was a proved lie @ Universal. Yes, they knew Zanny didn't live at Sawgrass, and suspected other lies, but she continued to state, insinuate, use her family or anyone else to insist the child was missing up until Dec. Remember all the 'protecting the family' carp? Even after LE received the decomp reports and later filed murder charges, they were still charged and dealing with the results of a missing child report, which was filed and sworn to by the child's mother. None of which would have been necessary had she told the truth when LE showed up at her door. Only at the trial did it turn into an accidental drowning - IMO the biggest lie of all - but if they want to celebrate that verdict as victory of 'truth' and justice, IMO she can pay expenses on what resulted from her initial - and continued, never denied by her or her DT - claim of a missing child.

Here's what HHBP said about this at sentencing:
"As a result of those four separate and distinct lies, law enforcement expended a great deal of time, energy and manpower looking for young Caylee Marie Anthony," he said. "This search for her went on from July through December - over several months - trying to find Caylee Marie Anthony. Four distinct, separate, lies. Just as the jury spoke loud and clear on counts one, two and three on their verdict they also spoke loud and clear on the remaining counts."

I think this hints that she will be taxed with investigative charges up to Dec., but probably not any of the SA's costs for prosecution. But I'd think having to pay any of those charges would be a big boost to others suing her in civil court, especially TES?

 

[lowens1975]

Casey, IMO, is a liar and a murderer. It's LE's duty to look for a missing child which they thought Caylee was, based on Casey's lies. Why would they want to be reimbursed for looking for a missing child. It's their job. Let's say for argument's sake Caylee was found alive and well. Should they/LE be reimbursed?

BBM -

There was a case not too long ago, here in FL, where a 13-14 year old stayed out all night and when she returned home the next morning, the story she told her parents was that she was kidnapped and raped. Well, the police pulled out all the stops looking for this so called 'kidnapper and rapist', for several hours, a K-9 unit, etc., even used their helicopter to search the area. About 9 hours into the investigation, the girl changed her story, none of what she said was true, she admitted telling her parents the story to keep from getting in trouble for staying out all night with a boy.

It wasn't long before LE went after her (her parents) for reimbursement, to include the fuel burned in helicopter used in the search.

Why? Because her lie caused them use manpower and resources that were tied up chasing her lie, when instead, they could have been used somewhere else or available to use in a real crisis, if needed.

IMO, they should be reimbursed. The money that funds LE agency's come out of taxes, which we all pay into.

 

[Wagara]

Originally Posted by Wagara
Did she lie to police? Yes. She should pay whatever it cost to rule her out as a suspect after her lie. If she told the truth and was later ruled out, she wouldn't owe anything in my opinion.

So you feel there should be zero tolerance, for lying to a police officer for any reason whatsoever?

I should have spent a little more time on the hypothetical, but after the lady was proven to have lied to the police about the allnight restaurant, she did tell the truth, that she was in the old building. She could not prove that until someone came forward in the middle of the trial with proof she had been near the old building. She was totally innocent of the murder, and was lying out of fear of her abusive husband.

Anyway, I just think the precedent that could be set from the judges decision will have some major impact in the future, and a lot of people who may not realize it right now, could be affected by this decision.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only

BBM...My answer is 'yes I do'. Rules have to be applied evenly in order to be applied fairly. She would not be footing the bill of finding the murderer. She would be footing the bill of the activity it took to prove her a liar. She would control how long and how much work and time was involved. She can say nothing or grab a lawyer. Sending the investigators in a different direction is different from keeping your mouth shut in my opinion.

Do I think I would never lie to a law officer about anything? No, I don't. I think there can be all kinds of circumstances. But that doesn't stop the liar's responsibility. If my lie causes excess resources to be used, I think I would be liable.

 

[Meri]

When the sound cut out I felt a great sense of relief, I couldn't take another second of CM's blathering, and truly needed a break.:crazy: I wish I could rewatch it with LDB's speaking parts only. You know, how they cut an actor's part out of a movie, just cut CM out of my version please!

I bet you could do just that on this site - this is part one with subsequent parts available on the page of this video. I haven't watched them all but I would imagine there are some with just LDB.


http://www.wftv.com/video/29063440/index.html

 

[RR0004]

FWIW One of the TH's last night, a former judge said there are a number of ways for KC's lawyers to legally hide money. He said, the Goldmans lawyers tried unsuccessfully for years in trying to get into to OJ's finances and get the Goldman's some or all of the 32 million they were awarded in the civil trial. He said, so far, they haven't been able to get anything from OJ.

I do not know if any of the above is true, I am just repeating what I recall being said by a talking head last night.

There's some kind of rule/law (Homestead Act?) that doesn't allow them to touch property he owns...guess where?...Florida. I have no idea when he bought that property, but wasn't he the smart one to pick FLA. I'm also thinking (more like wondering) that Casey could no doubt start a nonprofit herself. Wouldn't that be rich?

 

[RR0004]

My sister has a granddaughter that was born about a month before Caylee was born. She bore a striking resemblance to Caylee. The very first time I saw Caylee's photo on TV, I did a doubletake, and listened intently until I confirmed that this was not my great niece that was missing. Today, when I looked at a recent photo of my great niece, I was looking at a little girl who looks very much like Caylee would have. Because of this strong resemblance, the tragic story of Caylee Marie will always tug at my heart, every time I see my great niece or a picture of her. Because of my beliefs, I can take solace in knowing Caylee is out of harms way, and in the company of angels.

Although I feel deep sorrow about Caylee's tragedy, I have never let it guide my thoughts when I look at the circumstances surrounding this tragedy. After all I have read in docs, depos, etc. I do believe it is possible that the majority is right, and that KC murdered Caylee. The big difference between me and the majority is that I also believe it is equally possible that the majority is incorrect, and that KC did not murder Caylee. I have maintained these contradictory beliefs since the release of the first major doc dump. This doesn't make me the enemy, nor does it make me a bad person. It does make me agree with the verdict however, because I do not believe the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that KC was responsible for the tragedy that took Caylee's life.

I believe the state did their best, as did LE, the FBI, the CSI's etc. I believe the jury did not find proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe the DT did their best. There are no winners here. Caylee is dead, and there can never be any justice found in the death of a 2 year old child.

If our system elicited the incorrect verdict, and the majority is right, KC will have her judgement day sometime in the future, as we all will. If the verdict was correct, and Caylee's death was a tragic accident, then I repeat there can never be any justice found in the death of a 2 year old child.

Some of the TH's today were saying they thought the state of Florida trying to get a half a million from KC is sour grapes. MN was solidly on the states side, and thinks HHBP should smack her down with the entire half million. Some of them think along the same lines as I do, that she should pay for the costs that proved her lying convictions, but how much that is, well, I am smart enough to defer to the honorable JBP for that

Without numerous cases to study, I think HHBP has his work cut out for him trying to find the laws that will support his decision. LDB did not give him a lot of caselaw to study, and the DT could not find anything of substance either.

At least we will know HHBP's decision in less than 3 weeks, and considering the months and years we have had to wait on many motions and such in this case, 3 weeks is a walk in the park. I am looking forward to his decision, and his citing of the laws that led him to that decision.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only

Beautiful post, TDA. I wish I could find some way to believe it was an accident (I don't even think the jury thought so)...but that nagging duct tape just won't allow me to. If you are correct...what a depraved act to do to your own child. And...no way do I believe the "accident" was a drowning.

 

[RANCH]

There's some kind of rule/law (Homestead Act?) that doesn't allow them to touch property he owns...guess where?...Florida. I have no idea when he bought that property, but wasn't he the smart one to pick FLA. I'm also thinking (more like wondering) that Casey could no doubt start a nonprofit herself. Wouldn't that be rich?

I believe in Florida your primary home cannot be taken to satisfy a civil judgment.That's why OJ moved from California to there.Also pensions and other retirement funds are safe.Neither apply to FCA, but I'm sure there are other ways for her to hide money.MOO.

 

[21merc7]

+respectfully snipped+

:floorlaugh: 'Zanny and her Band of Merry Kidnappers' :floorlaugh: There's more than one? :floorlaugh:

I've been wondering - and maybe someone can help out - let's say monies paid to her are held in trust for a determined period or with conditions, would she still be obligated to make liability payments from that money or could she contend that it is inaccessible?

BBM

Actually, yes. She changed her story to following a script that "the kidnappers" told her to do or they would harm Caylee, and one person held her down while taking Caylee. She also told her parents they were in danger from "them". All on video and audio from the beginning.

As far as the finances, we will just have to watch the games crumble more slowly than expected.

 

[Anakerie]

BBM

Actually, yes. She changed her story to following a script that "the kidnappers" told her to do or they would harm Caylee, and one person held her down while taking Caylee. She also told her parents they were in danger from "them". All on video and audio from the beginning.

As far as the finances, we will just have to watch the games crumble more slowly than expected.

As far as we know, Casey never told ANYONE in authority about that new script thing.. All we know of it is what Cindy said.. I don't know about you or anyone else, but I don't trust what Cindy says. She's as much of a liar as her daughter...

 

[ohreally]

The only way I see her making any large sum of money is through the media. How far is the media willing to go to help her hide those payments? Can they subpeona records from any media they find giving her an interview, or writing a book? I would hope that they would give them all information of who and what they paid for. It won't play out well for any media proven to help her hide money they paid for her story.

 

[jandkmom]

It is a good hypothetical, because I thought about it for the last hour as I picked a mountain of tomatoes and beans in my garden.

I think we have to set strong penalties for lying to police. We can't really function as a society if we do not consider honesty a core value. Police investigations seem to consist largely of conversations with citizens. If they cannot get honest answers, their ability to uncover the truth is significantly hindered.

I don't have an elegant answer for why the state must seek reimbursement in this case. All I can say is that in your hypothetical the woman lied to preserve her safety in a situation where she was powerless.

FCA was in no danger, and she had ample power to help herself. Her lie was unnecessary and embellished way beyond the point of substituting one location for another. Big fat lies all over the place, here. She was also given many opportunities to correct her initial mistruth, and she was told about the consequences of persisting in her lie. She lied for only 1 reason- she had to or she would be found out due to the evidence that was in the process of deteriorating.

I can think of other situations when a person would lie to the police to protect their safety, but I can't think of a single situation, other than guilt, why a perfectly "safe" person would lie given these circumstances. Mental illness, I guess- which was implied, but not substantiated at trial.

I'd hope that any judge considering this as precedent would employ some discretion about pursuing reimbursement. I don't know what the legal angle is on this type of discretion.

I'd also like to add that the lie was not fully exposed until the trial. The police could have considered that the bogus nanny was somehow implicated in the death of Caylee, upon finding her remains. FCA was the only person who could clear up the confusion. Her parents continued to supply new tidbits and admonishments to the police about pursuing the wrong angle on her behalf.

Thanks for something to think about.

A thanks just wouldn't do...that was very well said!!!!