State rests rebuttal case- thread #163

[EquallyDivided]

Hello everyone new here ,just been reading for a while .Thought this would be really suitable , written many years ago by Omar Khayyam . The Moving Finger writes;and having writ, Moves on, nor all your Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

:welcome4:

What a great way to say that Travis' words will live on. Great first post, and welcome to this passionate group!

 

[grammieto5]

Everytime I see a smile on Jodi's face, I get irritated. You brutally killed a man and you're on trial for that crime. You don't get to smile!! You need to sit there and be invisible!! :banghead:

One day soon, she will be.

 

[EquallyDivided]

Would there be impressions left if he were deceased? I always imaged her standing on him while showering off after. I can also imagine her standing on and kicking while trying to get him back in the shower in that position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing discovered in this regard would surprise me. That hallway wasn't very wide, so I'm sure she probably did step on him instead of trying to navigate a slippery blood-filled tile surface. She put her hand on the wall (I believe) to steady herself at some point or to get traction while dragging him back to the shower.

It easy to see she would have had no compunction about stepping, shoving, or stuffing him into the shower after brutally murdering him. No regard for his life, so why would she care after he's dead? Sick and twisted.

 

[VALee]

I can't imagine a grown man paying his x hundreds of dollars for one night of sex a year and a half after she left him for another man, to go see that very same man...

If he still cared for her I could see him giving her some $ to help her out, but Jodi left him high and dry with the house and it went into forclosure. People are stubborn- maybe he did.

I can't even see him buying a dvd player from her as many have alluded to.

I hope if anything he gave her $ to stay away!

But what do I know?
Stranger things have happened!

I can see her giving him the DVD or CD player and thus a remote that forgot to change hands in the process.

 

[LambChop]

Wonder if it occurred to her because the door to the shower was open, water coming on the floor and she watched, probably laughed at Travis as he slipped, struggled and fell as she stabbed him. In Jodi's world, she probably that...hey, that's a good idea to wet the floor, look at him slip and slide all over, while she had socks on.
Wonder if Jodi's "getting the wind knocked out of her" was actually Travis when she stuck that knife in his chest and he was having trouble breathing?

Another reason to believe premeditation. She had socks on. Some sneakers, shoes would be slippery on a wet tile floor. Socks, not so much.

 

[MidwestMama]

There was a huge discussion about this is in yesterday's New York Times, if you are interested. It included postings by transplant surgeons, ethicists, etc.

If you wouldn't mind would you post a link? I am very interested to read this and couldn't find it on their website. TIA!

ETA: I found it! For others interested, it is: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/04/25/should-prisoners-be-allowed-to-donate-their-organs

 

[bettybaby00]

Originally Posted by The Farm
Good Morning,

Wow I would have never thought of pouring water on the tile floor to drag him back to the bathroom. Then again I could never in my worse nightmares do what JA did. That shows even more of her thought process and there was no fog ever which I did not believe for a minute. I also did not know there was a cup found in the shower.

BBM: that's the thing...this is why we, the prosecution, nor LE can't ever connect all the dots 100%. We don't have the capacity to think or act the way she does (thank god), and unfortunately we'll never know the full story. I believe that even if the 2nd degree murder charge was accepted as a plea bargain, she still wouldn't tell the truth. She's incapable of being honest, and would have still contended that travis made her kill him.

 

[Arabian Girl]

Doing some digging on Dr. Geffner and besides the Dv issue, he has testified in at least 2 DP cases. This got me thinking, even if it’s NOT DV Geffner is getting involved for, it could be the DP issue. Found an interesting clip on that, which follows. Didn’t have too time time to edit so…sorry it’s long.

In (Eric Charles) Nenno v Texas, man lures 7 yr old girl to his house stranglers her and continues having sex with the body for 2 days. (ICK!!)
“In cross-examining Dr. Robert Geffner, one of appellant's expert witnesses, the prosecutor attempted to introduce into evidence a document made by a colleague of Dr. Geffner. The document was an interview with appellant and was one of the materials relied upon by Dr. Geffner in formulating his expert opinion. Appellant objected that the document was hearsay, and the trial court sustained the objection. Later, the prosecutor questioned Dr. Geffner concerning the contents of the document”

Next, (Clifton Eugene) Belyeu v Texas, robbery and murder of Melody Bolton in 1985. 1995 Geffner testifies on Belyeu’s behalf.
“Belyeu offered evidence of his claimed brain impairment at the second federal habeas hearing through the testimony of two experts, Dr. Robert Geffner, a clinical psychologist, and Paula Lundberg-Love, a licensed chemical dependency counselor. Geffner testified that Belyeu suffers from mild neuropsychological impairment attributable to closed head injuries or polysubstance abuse, or both, and that at the time of the murder Belyeu was "probably" suffering from moderate neuropsychological impairment. Lundberg-Love testified that a high probability existed that Belyeu suffered from "significant" brain damage and behavioral impairment. However, she used the word significant only in the statistical sense. That is, she used a mathematical term that was of little relevance. The state countered with Dr. Hom, a licensed psychologist, who concluded that Belyeu does not currently suffer from mild neuropsychological impairment and did not at the time of the murder. He expressed the view that the opinions of Geffener and Lundberg-Love were based on improper procedures, inaccurate scoring, and over-interpretation. The district court found that there was "no evidence to corroborate closed head injuries resulting in any mild organic brain disorder, or mild organic brain disorder brought about by substance abuse." Belyeu attacks this conclusion as irrelevant. He argues that it was not the role of the federal habeas court to resolve the dispute among the experts and decide as an ultimate fact the extent of any impairment Belyeu may have suffered. Rather, he contends, the evidence supports his contention that the proceedings were made unreliable by the failure of trial counsel to adduce this evidence before the jury at the sentencing phase because this evidence went directly to whether Belyeu committed the murder with deliberateness.”

 

[Truth Detector]

Would there be impressions left if he were deceased? I always imaged her standing on him while showering off after. I can also imagine her standing on and kicking while trying to get him back in the shower in that position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

His legs bear contusions which may have come from stomping and/or kicking, especially against limbs which are resting on a floor or against a wall or other construction feature.

 

[BlackLabLover]

Its something most people are not aware of. Most of the ballons end up in our oceans and in the bellies of marine life. Its against the law in NY to throw rice at weddings. Dry rice in the bellies of birds expands and it results in their stomach exploding and killing the birds. I dont know why there was never any real campain to educate the public on ballons and marine life.

What balloons do to dolphins, whales, turtles and other marine life is just heartbreaking. I agree, there needs to be more education on this topic.

 

[neesaki]

Was this after the point in the interview when she says to flores something about "copping" to it? He kind of talked rover her and I always kind of wondered if she almost told. Then she said I can't admit to something I did not do.
He did a great job interviewing h e r but I did g e t that feeling during that exchange.

Gosh, I 'm not sure. Just that Flores was out of the room and she was alone when she made that statement.

 

[gauntlet]

Too funny. This is JA's number plate from the rental car

Thanks to Jodi's diary https://twitter.com/JodisDiary on Twitter

And this is Nurmi's

And one I'd love!

---

Jodi's Diary ‏@JodisDiary 24 Apr

DT: "we would like to approach the approach we approached after approaching the approach we are approaching out of" #JodiArias Trial

----

And thanks to Karahunt35 https://twitter.com/KaraHunt35

I'd spar with JM anyday

 

[Arabian Girl]

I sure hope Juan has time to do his homework on this guy!!!

Capital cases challenge psychologists Ban on executing mentally retarded fuels scrutiny of evaluations

By KAREN PATTERSON, The Dallas Morning News Oct. 2003
Along with psychologists Robert Geffner and Elizabeth Lim, Dr. Hart has compared neuropsychological functioning of death penalty offenders to people outside the criminal justice system who had either been exposed to a toxic substance or had suffered a so-called closed head injury, like a concussion. Depending on what measures were used, at least one-quarter, and up to two-thirds, of the 33 death penalty offenders showed signs of neuropsychological impairment, said Dr. Lim, of Eastern Correctional
Institution in Westover, Md.

Yet data on the 33 offenders indicated that perhaps only one would qualify as mentally retarded based on intelligence testing, or IQ, scores alone, said Dr. Geffner, founder and president of the Family Violence & Sexual Assault Institute. A person could have a pretty severe neuropsychological impairment – from a car accident or fall, say – and still score above the cutoff for retardation. "We need to look at brain impairment and not just mental retardation," he said.

Even in looking just at mental retardation, intelligence testing is problematic. Traditionally, people with an IQ score below 70 – about 2.3 percent of the population – are considered mentally retarded, Dr. Price
said. But now, to account for measurement error, a cutoff of 70 to 75 is often used – a range that means twice as many people could be considered retarded.

 

[Arabian Girl]

His legs bear contusions which may have come from stomping and/or kicking, especially against limbs which are resting on a floor or against a wall or other construction feature.

This picture always gives me the impression Juan is thinking "Don't even look at me! You're going down!"

:floorlaugh:

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Since this autopsy photo is public and didn't need to be enhanced, I'm posting it with a Warning - Graphic. But you can see JA's footprint about 5 times here. What a disrespecting so-and-so.

The toe area of the shoeprint is distorted--it's actually more regular than that around the edges--but I'm amazed it survived at all. It has the two octagons just like the example of the shoeprint shown in court. (Can't find that photo again, however).

WARNING: Graphic. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/AlbumPhoto/ScreenShot2013-04-27at54249AM_zps9c2679a7.png

 

[ElleElle]

BBM~ Aren't cats the greatest? :cat: They're like my roommates.

I'm still stuck on the fact that he didn't have a shower massage. I don't think I would have thought of water to make the floor slippery, either; I would have thought of SHAMPOO, though. Conditioner would have been even better. Plus the rest of that tube of K-Y and whatever other slippery substance that I could find. THEN I would add water.

ETA: Not that I would have killed Travis in the first place. At Jodi's age, I would have been more likely to retreat, cry, and go on a junk food binge after a messy breakup. I didn't have the kind of self-esteem that JA had and still has. I STILL don't have that kind of self-esteem (i.e., I don't think I'm smarter, better, and more deserving of rewards and good things or even just things going my way than everyone else in the world (SOME people, yes, but not MOST people)). Now in my 50s, I would simply walk away. I'm much more inclined to think that the other person is simply not worth the trouble and energy necessary to continue dealing with them. Besides, I have CATS now.

 

[EquallyDivided]

The hubs and I considered taking an IQ test after discussing the trial, but I don't think either one of us would be able to live down the results. We've been prodding and joking with each other about it since it came up.

Could you imagine? If he tested better than me, I would be deflated

 

[Alexander family fan]

I sure hope Juan has time to do his homework on this guy!!!

Capital cases challenge psychologists Ban on executing mentally retarded fuels scrutiny of evaluations

By KAREN PATTERSON, The Dallas Morning News Oct. 2003
Along with psychologists Robert Geffner and Elizabeth Lim, Dr. Hart has compared neuropsychological functioning of death penalty offenders to people outside the criminal justice system who had either been exposed to a toxic substance or had suffered a so-called closed head injury, like a concussion. Depending on what measures were used, at least one-quarter, and up to two-thirds, of the 33 death penalty offenders showed signs of neuropsychological impairment, said Dr. Lim, of Eastern Correctional
Institution in Westover, Md.

Yet data on the 33 offenders indicated that perhaps only one would qualify as mentally retarded based on intelligence testing, or IQ, scores alone, said Dr. Geffner, founder and president of the Family Violence & Sexual Assault Institute. A person could have a pretty severe neuropsychological impairment – from a car accident or fall, say – and still score above the cutoff for retardation. "We need to look at brain impairment and not just mental retardation," he said.

Even in looking just at mental retardation, intelligence testing is problematic. Traditionally, people with an IQ score below 70 – about 2.3 percent of the population – are considered mentally retarded, Dr. Price
said. But now, to account for measurement error, a cutoff of 70 to 75 is often used – a range that means twice as many people could be considered retarded.

Don't worry, he has a full staff. Also, many other lawyers and psychologists, Dr. DeMarte's team , etc. have likely flooded his office with emails and information , transcripts from his prior trials etc. It is very common to do this when someone is of bad character. Wendy Murphy alone has likely sent his enough research for an FBI /CIA investigative report on everything the guy has done since college. He is going to mop the floor with this guy!!! He has been sanctioned on the record by other judges. Be of good cheer on this one!!!

 

[DebinGA]

I guess it's too much to hope that Geffner will try to convince the jury that Jodi is brain-damaged, or even better, mentally retarded with a verbal IQ of 136?

 

[rose222]

Since this autopsy photo is public and didn't need to be enhanced, I'm posting it with a Warning - Graphic. But you can see JA's footprint about 5 times here. What a disrespecting so-and-so.

The toe area of the shoeprint is distorted--it's actually more regular than that around the edges--but I'm amazed it survived at all. It has the two octagons just like the example of the shoeprint shown in court. (Can't find that photo again, however).

Oh my god. I'm crying uncontrollably. What a monster she was. This jury better come back with a murder one verdict.