State vs Jason Lynn Young: weekend discussion 11-12 Feb 2012

[ohiogirl]

imo they are laying the foundation for who is most likely to have committed this murder.
If there was any evidence of someone else, it would come in. So far, no one else had motive and opportunity. He did it. imo

 

[Allusonz]

As for the shoes. These were not expensive shoes. I know many including myself that if they are expensive ones they last longer thus I keep them. I could understand keeping ones made of Italian leather etc., but in my experience the cheaper shoes are lucky to last me one year.

LE cannot possibly state with any certainty these were JY shoes and otto continues to repeat this but I don't believe that it is being given the weight that it should be.

Everyone that wears shoes has a "WEAR" pattern. It is the "wear" pattern that allows LE to distinguish between shoes.

LE simply has not been able to do this. Many consider this to be a coincidence that there just happened to be bags ready for the Goodwill. Yet it was MY that got the items ready.

As otto has so patiently pointed out it is not just the sole of the shoe that is important it is the person that wears it and the wear pattern that is important.

 

[Allusonz]

As I have posted before LE should never of allowed anyone in a crime scene that has not been fully processed. In doing so those people leave their DNA.

For anyone making an issue out JY for not going into the house and not identifying items that may of been taken or not simply do not understand the implications of the prime suspect entering a crime scene that has not been processed fully with a huge potential for leaving their DNA. If it had of been me I would not of gone into that house for months until I was certain that everything LE wanted processed had been.

Does no one find this odd? What in the heck was LE thinking?

 

[Allusonz]

Off topic : Whitney Houston found dead. 48 yo

Very sad news and my thoughts and prayers to her daughter, family and friends. I hope and pray that she is remembered for her contributions and not the issues she faced. May she R.I.P.

 

[ohiogirl]

She had it all going for her. Truly a devastating loss of life.

 

[Allusonz]

The camera was messed with before....per Jennifer Marshal's and Elmer Goad's testimony.

It is also a coincidence that the one camera that would have solved this case in the first few days, was not working.

Jason had no way to know that..

Lucky, or he just wasn't there?

There is also no proof he stopped at another gas station between Hillsville and Clintwood to when
he stopped at Duffield to get gas, the next day at noon.

Where is the video or receipt from another gas station along this route, because there would have to be!!

For anyone that stays in hotels things like this happen all the time. Speak to the employees as the stories they relay are at times comical and other times sad.

Once again there is no forensic evidence to show that JY moved the camera, unplugged it etc.

There were 49 rooms occupied and that leaves alot of people which could of done this.

 

[rockin10]

I am catching up on a few of the witnesses over the weekend and have been listening to her therapist, Kimball Sargent (sp?). This witness is really compelling and I think she adds a very important piece to the puzzle and allows an impartial person to basically speak for Michelle in how she was thinking and feeling in the days leading up to her murder.

I am extremely surprised that this witness was not called during the first trial!!!

I am SO glad that she testified in this one!!!

 

[Allusonz]

Sadly - I think that Jay's decision to not to speak with ANYONE about ANYTHING related to the murder was brilliant.

Here's the thing - if you say NOTHING - you never can be caught contradicting yourself, never can be caught lying, never can put your family and friends on the stand and ask them what you said. Nothing - no data at ALL. We've already established he's a liar - so if you don't talk at all - you can't lie.

Now, whether the ability to actually carry out that strategy is NORMAL - is another story. I know I could not do it - but the complete removal of himself from the situation and the insistence that he not speak about anything related to MY's murder - has left the PT with little to hang their hat on.

It also left them unprepared for him deciding to testify - and since there was nothing to ask him to explain or contradict based on earlier statements - it was impossible to show that he had lied about anything related to MY.

I believe that he did it - but he's made it very hard to prove - and while his actions make him "look" guilty - they provide little evidence of said guilt.

I am going to take this further.

I think we will be seeing many more POI do exactly the same thing and exercise this right.

There has been an escalation in murders, children disappearing to the point my mind gets overwhelmed.

LE must use alot of man power to investigate these and they are being stretched to the max and from I see already are overworked.

 

[otto]

I agree otto. There is nothing to support this was nothing more than an accident.

What I find amazing is so many ignoring the fact that MY herself would of been interviewed by LE regarding the accident and she did not state anything incriminating.

I agree. Many people view the accident as attempted murder but apparently Michelle, who was there - saw, heard and exerienced it all - viewed it as an accident. Shortly after her murder, rumors were circulating that Jason asked her to get something from the back and caused her to remove her seatbelt. At least the jury heard the straight story from Michelle's co-worker. There's a lot of innuendo about several aspects of this case, not just the car accident. It sometimes seems a bit like the focus is on Jason and everything about him and in his life indicates that he is a murderer.

For example, he bought size 12 hush puppy shoes in June 2005 and the sole on those shoes is the same as the sole on one set of prints at the scene. The other set of prints is size 10 and that too has been roundabout connected with him, even though he is a size 12. He had a bruised toe nail, supposedly from wearing too small shoes while murdering - no other injuries. The print is not similar to a pair of shoes that Jason owned at the time of the murder, but similar to a pair of shoes Michelle purchased 1.5 years earlier. I would like to see a wear pattern comparison between the print at the scene and the shoes that Jason wore in prison. Maybe it's the same. If it's not introduced, I would wonder why not. It would be one of those details that ruled him in or out (a bit like a retest on dna with better equipment would have done in another case). With only a sole pattern match ... how many pairs of shoes like that were sold in 2005-2006?

Innuendo about the car accident ... like Gaudi when he was run over by a trolley car: did he fall or was he pushed.

 

[otto]

There are cases where a woman is murdered and there were previous murder attempts. One guy pretended that he was mistakenly in drive, not reverse, in the garage and pinned his wife between the car an the wall. Fortunately, she was pushed between two framing studs and ended up in the kitchen. There were a lot of questions about whether it was really an accident, but she stayed with him. He later succeeded. I don't remember how she died or her name, but I remember that her husband took the children and the dog to the lake cabin at the same time.

I was interested in the therapists notes. It sounds like Michelle wanted help to get her life in order for her children ... I wonder if that's what triggered Jason to murder her, if he did it, as that would represent that she was getting stronger and would soon have most likely completely distanced herself from Jason. She was financially fine, she had her mom and her sister in place to help, she had negotiated working from home ... she almost had it all in place ... Jason had moved on to her "sorority sister" ... maybe they both realized that it was completely over but he couldn't let her go ... so he killed her rather than have her raise their children with the help of her family ... maybe he couldn't let go of the control.

... just random thoughts ...

 

[otto]

I have stayed in far too many hotels during my travels to know that things such as this are very common.

As for kids being in a hotel on a school evening here is a short list of what I have come across during weekday business travel:

football teams
baseball teams
hockey teams
volleyball teams
basketball teams
children on various trips such as skiing
school bands

I won't even go into the minor league teams or professional ones.

It has simply come to the point I inquire ahead whether this will be the case for both flight and hotel.

Then I am suppose to believe that out of ALL the landscaping rocks they pick one and find 3 alleles of LCN DNA which would match a great deal of people on one rock. It was not a blind test. The were only looking for the alleles that matched JY. WHY??????

Why were no other rocks taken for comparison? Very poor forensic collection by LE. You should always take comparison ones especially with low copy DNA.

Then in the first trial it turns out it is not even 3 alleles as one allele was considered to be stutter. That is like the LE in Perugia that took the knife based on "investigative intuition" in the Amanda Knox case. Thus it was not 3 alleles it was 2

The prosecution is now walking a very fine line here.

How many more people are they going to put up for character assassination? If they continue along this route there is the possiblility that the jury will become turned off by this.

Yes some juries might eat it up. Others may not.

The night audit clerk testified that of the almost 90 rooms, a third were normally occupied. On the night of the murder, 49 were occupied - more than half. What caused the spike that night?

 

[otto]

As for the shoes. These were not expensive shoes. I know many including myself that if they are expensive ones they last longer thus I keep them. I could understand keeping ones made of Italian leather etc., but in my experience the cheaper shoes are lucky to last me one year.

LE cannot possibly state with any certainty these were JY shoes and otto continues to repeat this but I don't believe that it is being given the weight that it should be.

Everyone that wears shoes has a "WEAR" pattern. It is the "wear" pattern that allows LE to distinguish between shoes.

LE simply has not been able to do this. Many consider this to be a coincidence that there just happened to be bags ready for the Goodwill. Yet it was MY that got the items ready.

As otto has so patiently pointed out it is not just the sole of the shoe that is important it is the person that wears it and the wear pattern that is important.

I do continue to repeat it ... don't mean to be repetitive ... but the prints were not matched to any of Jason's shoes, they were matched to a pair of shoes purchased by Michelle in June, 2005. I keep shoes for 4 months to a year, at most, even the good ones. If I had a shoes from 1.5 years ago - unless they were an occassion shoe, they would be trash. Jason's hush puppies were not an "occassion" shoe, they were everyday shoes and they most likely would have been falling apart 1.5 years later.

The wear pattern with the sole pattern is how shoe print analysis should be done. It's not quite as perfect as a fingerprint, but everyone walks differently and everyone's shoes always wear out in the same way. It's the print + wear pattern that can begin to isolate a suspect. Wearing one particular type of shoe was never meant to be used to isolate a suspect ... is that the CSI effect?

 

[otto]

As I have posted before LE should never of allowed anyone in a crime scene that has not been fully processed. In doing so those people leave their DNA.

For anyone making an issue out JY for not going into the house and not identifying items that may of been taken or not simply do not understand the implications of the prime suspect entering a crime scene that has not been processed fully with a huge potential for leaving their DNA. If it had of been me I would not of gone into that house for months until I was certain that everything LE wanted processed had been.

Does no one find this odd? What in the heck was LE thinking?

It makes perfect sense on one level ... on another, it doesn't. Jason lived in the house so what evidence could he add to the scene. He could have stayed away from the pool of blood and the upstairs bathroom to avoid contaminating the area.

I guess the question is: where police going to dress him up in white suits like they wore, booties and all, so this could happen? It was a crime scene for 10 days. When did they first ask him to do a walkthrough?

It seems to me that it was very soon after the murder ... so ... with booties or without? What's the norm, what was most likely planned? Were they open to having Jason walk through the house with his lawyer, identify and report what was moved or missing, or was it a condition that he do this walk through with investigators? If it was a condition that he do the walkthrough with investigators, is that because it was more important to them to see his reaction than to know what was different about the house? Would investigators have accepted a report prepared by his lawyer?

 

[otto]

It seems to me that in the last trial, the defense trumped because of the prosecution's omissions. This time, the defense will have to be more aggressive ... although Jason might just get up on the stand and answer questions again. I'm sure the prosecution is holding back a little for that possibility - at least they should be. At the very least, I hope they're holding back the good stuff to catch him in lies. They were unable to do that in the first trial ... and I don't think that an unpopular verdict can always be blamed on the prosecutor ... sometimes evidence and jurors have something to do with it.

Very interesting case.

 

[fredwomble]

Folks, wrt to all of these "coincidences", at some point don't you have to consider that if you take away one or two of them, and maybe Jason Young is indeed not guilty. What TERRIBLE misfortune for his defense that that camera was tampered with twice. That he just happened to exit his hotel room that way without his room key, the same door where a rock was placed. That his shirt was never recovered. That his seized luggage contained no evidence of a cigar being smoked (wrapper, matches, that unmistakable cigar smoke odor). The shoes/prints. Then, the great FORTUNE that the killer, rather than leaving no witness, instead washed Cassidy Young, and gave her adult strength medicine. Medicine which Jason Young would know from his pharma knowledge. Again, think about all of these unbelievable coincidences, think about Jason's email to his sister - think that doesn't say something important?

It's the context of all of these coincidences that you look back at the first car incident and reach a pretty obvious conclusion. Throw in Jason Young's immaturity and disrespect/narcissism, and his propensity for violence toward women as established in the first trial, then it's simply undeniable. There were no coincidences...Jason Young left a trail of evidence in committing this murder, but he planned and carried it out in a way that's obviously proved difficult to convict. Especially given his unwillingness to say word one until his first trial.

And yet all this said, the first jury failed or the prosecution failed. That doesn't change what we as the general public can see for ourselves.

 

[NCEast]

And it 'just so happened' that on the exact same night, in the perfect time frame' 'along the exact route' a man matching JLY stopped to get gas, wanting badly to avoid entering the store/be seen. During the exact time frame that the camera's and doors were screwed with at JLY's hotel. Never happened before, the screwing with camera's. And all these coincidences just happened to happen on the night JLY's wife was brutally murdered. So many pieces in this puzzle......

And remember, there are no coincidences in murder.....he's guilty.

 

[Just the Fax]

I have stayed in far too many hotels during my travels to know that things such as this are very common.

As for kids being in a hotel on a school evening here is a short list of what I have come across during weekday business travel:

football teams
baseball teams
hockey teams
volleyball teams
basketball teams
children on various trips such as skiing
school bands

I won't even go into the minor league teams or professional ones.

It has simply come to the point I inquire ahead whether this will be the case for both flight and hotel.

Then I am suppose to believe that out of ALL the landscaping rocks they pick one and find 3 alleles of LCN DNA which would match a great deal of people on one rock. It was not a blind test. The were only looking for the alleles that matched JY. WHY??????

Why were no other rocks taken for comparison? Very poor forensic collection by LE. You should always take comparison ones especially with low copy DNA.

Then in the first trial it turns out it is not even 3 alleles as one allele was considered to be stutter. That is like the LE in Perugia that took the knife based on "investigative intuition" in the Amanda Knox case. Thus it was not 3 alleles it was 2



Yes some juries might eat it up. Others may not.

Well, your list is correct. In fact that may have been what happened at that hotel >10 years ago (per Elmer)when "kids" moved the camera (never been unplugged). However, this particular Thursday night in early November was a light night, with only had 49 of 89 rooms occupied. Rest assured Mr Young's investigator (in court daily), would have discovered if there was any such group you described at the hotel that Thursday night. They are desperate to find any reason at all the camera was unplugged at 11:20 PM and moved at 6:25AM.

Rocks you ask?
You may not be aware the rock was kicked out of the emergency door jamb by the staff in the very early AM hours. When LE arrived on Saturday, they collected the single rock said by the staff to be the one kicked. This rock was all alone on the sidewalk in front of the door. The rock beds were at least 6 feet away, so such a large rock that far out of place is very unusual.

Finally, so much is being made of the rock and allels. Just toss the rock if you think it is weak evidence. JLY admitted leaving the hotel at midnight and propping the door...twig or rock, not that important.

 

[Just the Fax]

I do continue to repeat it ... don't mean to be repetitive ... but the prints were not matched to any of Jason's shoes, they were matched to a pair of shoes purchased by Michelle in June, 2005. I keep shoes for 4 months to a year, at most, even the good ones. If I had a shoes from 1.5 years ago - unless they were an occassion shoe, they would be trash. Jason's hush puppies were not an "occassion" shoe, they were everyday shoes and they most likely would have been falling apart 1.5 years later.

The wear pattern with the sole pattern is how shoe print analysis should be done. It's not quite as perfect as a fingerprint, but everyone walks differently and everyone's shoes always wear out in the same way. It's the print + wear pattern that can begin to isolate a suspect. Wearing one particular type of shoe was never meant to be used to isolate a suspect ... is that the CSI effect?

Otto, his Hush Puppy Orbital shoes were not purchased by Michelle 6/05, they were purchased by JLY at DSW 7/05 (he bought 3 pairs of shoes and MY bought 1 pair). The HP shoes were rare and discontinued...MSRP was $69.90 and he paid $44.90.

I find it interesting that some think tossing shoes after only <16 months is 'normal'. Personally I have several pairs of casual shoes similar to these (for years) and the hard rubber sole does not wear like some described by otto. In fact, Jay said it was not the soles, but the 'fake leather' was starting to look bad. Well Jay, so happens those HP Orbitals were made with 100% cowhide leather. Nope, those shoes were occasionally worn with jeans / khakis and you ditched them along with all your other clothes and gloves after the murder.

Exactly like these, except there is not stitching around toe

 

[Just the Fax]

An insightful poster pointed this out - very telling, imo
=============================================

"Meredith when asked by the defense said she didn't cry initially as she was still trying to process what she had seen. Surreal.
Linda also testified she didn't cry when Meredith called her because she couldn't grasp that Michelle was dead. How could this be?

But when told, Jason immediately fell to his knees, crying, acting like he couldn't hold up- total acceptance."

 

[Madeleine74]

I find it highly unusual and suspect that within a couple days after the murder JY is purchasing Hush Puppy shoes that are similar (though not exact) to the ones he had and claimed were given to charity.

What interesting timing.