Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[RANCH]

Hi Mummy - Zellner has now even admitted that LE did not plant the blood in the Rav4. I found it nonsensical to begin with as were Zellner's controlled tests to reproduce the blood stains in broad daylight.
Look at the pic of the blood stain in Avery's car and compare it the Rav4 stain by the ignition switch.

The conspiracy that would be necessary to plant evidence would encompass LE from MCSO, CCSO, Wisconsin DCI, prosecutors, judges, crime lab folks ... it's just nonsense to think all of them would toss a career away for a slimeball murderer and his sidekick.

I also believe what Joe Evan's wrote in his letter regarding Avery and Dassey. Avery related the murder to him long before Zellner came around and way before MaM1. Evans received nothing for the letter. Avery at that point probably thought he was never getting out so why not talk to a buddy.

There are other websites with good legal folks analyzing Zellner's performance to date and her way forward. It does not look promising for Avery at this point, if you believe those internet lawyers. Truthers will say that they're internet lawyers and what do they know, but their case knowledge and reasoning is sound. She's now broadcasting some "new evidence", but she's been doing that for awhile now with the Dassey garage, battery swap, "witnesses" that saw the Rav4 off 147, "human" pelvic bones in the quarry, etc.

Read the CASO report, trial transcripts, watch Avery's YT police and media interviews - there is tons of information for you to formulate your opinion.

I'm still waiting for Zellner to impress me.

I read some of her motions a while back and 95% consisted of "evidence" that was solely statements made by Steven Avery.

Why should I believe him? He has a very good reason to make all of the things he said. JMO

 

[Sustained]

I'm still waiting for Zellner to impress me.

I read some of her motions a while back and 95% consisted of "evidence" that was solely statements made by Steven Avery.

Why should I believe him? He has a very good reason to make all of the things he said. JMO

Pride goeth before a fall - most likely you won't be impressed with her in the Avery case. My prediction is the current appeal will fail and she drop the case blaming her failure on corrupt Wisconsin judges.

 

[RANCH]

Pride goeth before a fall - most likely you won't be impressed with her in the Avery case. My prediction is the current appeal will fail and she drop the case blaming her failure on corrupt Wisconsin judges.

I actually felt insulted that she expected me the reader of the motion to believe that Avery's unsupported statements were evidence of his innocence. GMAB.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

Hi Mummy - Zellner has now even admitted that LE did not plant the blood in the Rav4. I found it nonsensical to begin with as were Zellner's controlled tests to reproduce the blood stains in broad daylight.
Look at the pic of the blood stain in Avery's car and compare it the Rav4 stain by the ignition switch.

The conspiracy that would be necessary to plant evidence would encompass LE from MCSO, CCSO, Wisconsin DCI, prosecutors, judges, crime lab folks ... it's just nonsense to think all of them would toss a career away for a slimeball murderer and his sidekick.

I also believe what Joe Evan's wrote in his letter regarding Avery and Dassey. Avery related the murder to him long before Zellner came around and way before MaM1. Evans received nothing for the letter. Avery at that point probably thought he was never getting out so why not talk to a buddy.

There are other websites with good legal folks analyzing Zellner's performance to date and her way forward. It does not look promising for Avery at this point, if you believe those internet lawyers. Truthers will say that they're internet lawyers and what do they know, but their case knowledge and reasoning is sound. She's now broadcasting some "new evidence", but she's been doing that for awhile now with the Dassey garage, battery swap, "witnesses" that saw the Rav4 off 147, "human" pelvic bones in the quarry, etc.

Read the CASO report, trial transcripts, watch Avery's YT police and media interviews - there is tons of information for you to formulate your opinion.

Thanks for your reply. I admit to not having nearly the knowledge of the case that most here have, I’m reading interview transcripts at the moment of SA and BD. I will read all I can on the case though. I also find the initial lying about being alone, when it truly innocent BD being there too would have provided the perfect alibi. Also lying about having a fire that night, and on his news interview (before TH car or remains were found) he was asked along the lines of “how do you think TH family must be feeling?” And he replied “they must be going through hell, they just lost somebody.... or whatever” it seemed so much like he’d realised what he’d said and added “or whatever” I know many will say well she was missing=lost but it seemed more like he’d been caught admitting she was gone.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

Are you saying that you don't have any doubts about the quantity, distribution areas of SA's blood in RAV4?

Hi, yes I do see what people who believe SA see when they look at the pics of the blood in the rav4, and I do agree it seems to be where it shouldn’t be and not where it should be, but I do also feel it’s very plausible that in the dark SA could have wiped down any obvious areas, steering wheel, gear shift etc and missed not so onbious areas. If it was planted it raises the question, why was it not planted in the most obvious of areas?

 

[entrustEd]

Avery told LE that they had lots of his blood from before and now. This is when they were lying to him about finding TH's blood in his trailer, and his bloody palm print on the RAV4 ( I believe it's in the video I link below)

So you say he didn't say anything, yet you point out that as early as 11/4 he was saying they were out to get him? okie dokie then!

You can believe whatever you want about the tail lights/head lights BS, it doesn't discount that it was said early on and would indicate 'something' was going on around his trailer and back by Chuck's (where the RAV4 was found)

as for the interview where he says there was smoke in his trailer... here you go...

here is a link to all the early interviews (note that the written reports do not have everything that was said and listening to the audio/video is way more accurate):
Police Interviews and Interrogations and Audio Recordings – Steven Avery Trial Transcripts and Documents

and here is a bonus interview with Bobby from November 23, 2005 where he says he did go with Steven to check out lights after Chuck called: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Exhibits-9-10.pdf#page=122

So I guess Steven, Chuck, Bobby, and Brendan all lied about the lights? I could see Steven lying about it, but what did the other 3 have to gain from lying about it? Bobby did lie about it later on though and said he didn't go with SA, wonder why his story would change?

Missy you rock, you vile truther hehe . The "smelled smoke" statement is at 1:16

Also at 1:15:45 Fassbender (not seen in video) pipes up "your own family basically indicated that" TH was in your house, sounds like Bobby's story.
I heard late on Nov 7th a Judge ordered DNA samples from Bobby, I'm sure he was worried and needed to implicate SA.

A significant amount of Bobby's story changes and statements from others about Bobby change, that's a dead giveaway the truth is being suppressed by him and those he influenced

 

[missy1974]

Watched - Avery did mention smelling smoke in his trailer but nothing about the cutting his finger, bleeding into the sink, someone stealing the blood, and cleaning up the sink. I am now convinced after rewatching the interview that Avery is a true sociopath. Like many sociopaths, he is very convincing at times.

Nothing is suspicious about the lights if you believe Chuck and Steven are thick as thieves and Chuck may have been covering for him. Avery called Chuck @ 5:57pm on 10/31 after he had murdered Teresa so I don't believe that call was just to shoot the bull.

And how do you know whether Chuck knew the Rav4 was back there or not ? You act like these guys are Boy Scouts. I have no doubt they would cover for each other - zero.

So now Chuck knew about it all along and was helping Steven with a cover story? helping him make up stuff that would look like that RAV4 was planted there? Chuck didn't just mention the lights AFTER they found the RAV4, Bobby's early interview confirms that Chuck called Steven on that Friday night and Steven and Bobby went and investigated it. Unless Bobby was in on it and lying to?

 

[missy1974]

Thanks for your reply. I admit to not having nearly the knowledge of the case that most here have, I’m reading interview transcripts at the moment of SA and BD. I will read all I can on the case though. I also find the initial lying about being alone, when it truly innocent BD being there too would have provided the perfect alibi. Also lying about having a fire that night, and on his news interview (before TH car or remains were found) he was asked along the lines of “how do you think TH family must be feeling?” And he replied “they must be going through hell, they just lost somebody.... or whatever” it seemed so much like he’d realised what he’d said and added “or whatever” I know many will say well she was missing=lost but it seemed more like he’d been caught admitting she was gone.

Welcome to the forum @MummyRatcliffe

Sounds like you may have found the website that has all of the documents, but just in case... www.stevenaverycase.org has all of the court documents available, photo's, audio/video, etc. There is no bias there, just documents Some of us have been able to read or listen to things as they were released, going to that website now must feel overwhelming (and it is LOL).

If you get the chance, listen to the interviews that are available, unfortunately the reports don't always match up If you are looking for something that you can't find, just holler!

 

[missy1974]

Missy you rock, you vile truther hehe . The "smelled smoke" statement is at 1:16

Also at 1:15:45 Fassbender (not seen in video) pipes up "your own family basically indicated that" TH was in your house, sounds like Bobby's story.
I heard late on Nov 7th a Judge ordered DNA samples from Bobby, I'm sure he was worried and needed to implicate SA.

A significant amount of Bobby's story changes and statements from others about Bobby change, that's a dead giveaway the truth is being suppressed by him and those he influenced

You just reminded me... around Christmas, the audio of an interview with Barb was released from the day they took her DNA/prints. They were having a hard time finding Bobby, Barb had to call him and tell him to come to the hospital, I am not sure how long they had to wait. I will see if I can find the link to the audio, I just checked the www.stevenavery.org site and it wasn't added there, at least not under interviews. I only listened to a portion of it because it was really hard to hear and I had company at the time and totally forgot about it until now.

ETA: found the link Copy of Barb's Interview November 9, 2005 - Noise Reduction - Copy.mp3

the sound quality is horrible

 

[Sustained]

Also at 1:15:45 Fassbender (not seen in video) pipes up "your own family basically indicated that" TH was in your house, sounds like Bobby's story.
I heard late on Nov 7th a Judge ordered DNA samples from Bobby, I'm sure he was worried and needed to implicate SA.

Why would Bobby be worried ? He didn't do anything. And I asked you before ... if Bobby was the sick vile sexual predator you claim him to be, why has he never been accused of molesting or hurting a woman his entire life ? Why is his criminal record clean ? Certainly, someone would have come forward.

 

[Sustained]

So now Chuck knew about it all along and was helping Steven with a cover story? helping him make up stuff that would look like that RAV4 was planted there? Chuck didn't just mention the lights AFTER they found the RAV4, Bobby's early interview confirms that Chuck called Steven on that Friday night and Steven and Bobby went and investigated it. Unless Bobby was in on it and lying to?

I do think Chuck knew about what Stevie did via the 5:57pm call on 10/31 - it is certainly not a stretch to believe Stevie told Chuck about what he did. He told Joe Evans in prison. I do not think Chuck participated in any fashion in the murder other than the bogus headlight/taillight stories.

Bobby did not see the lights - all he confirmed was going with Steven to investigate it.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

Welcome to the forum @MummyRatcliffe

Sounds like you may have found the website that has all of the documents, but just in case... www.stevenaverycase.org has all of the court documents available, photo's, audio/video, etc. There is no bias there, just documents Some of us have been able to read or listen to things as they were released, going to that website now must feel overwhelming (and it is LOL).

If you get the chance, listen to the interviews that are available, unfortunately the reports don't always match up If you are looking for something that you can't find, just holler!

Hi @missy1974

Thanks so much for the welcome, yes I have looked at the stevenaverycase.org website, it is overwhelming! I started with then easy parts, watching the early interviews lol. This case is the most confusing of all lol. I couldn’t say 100% either way. It seems every piece of evidence can be refuted on both sides and both explanations seem plausible to me lol. I am slightly swayed more towards guilty simply as I’m finding it hard to believe that BoD observed SA actively bleeding, went into his trailer to retrieve the blood and drive to where TH car was hidden to deposit the blood. It just seems like a stretch to me. I find RH highly suspicious, lied under oath, never told LE he was an ex, directed the finding of the rav etc. I do feel regardless of the truth LE botched this case from the start and if every possible suspect had been thoroughly investigated we’d all be in a position of more certainty.

 

[Karinna]

Why would Bobby be worried ? He didn't do anything. And I asked you before ... if Bobby was the sick vile sexual predator you claim him to be, why has he never been accused of molesting or hurting a woman his entire life ? Why is his criminal record clean ? Certainly, someone would have come forward.

Aren't there a few missing women in that area? How would anyone know if BoD was guilt of any previous crimes? It's not as if he would broadcast it to everyone.
How many cases of men who appear happily married with a family have been SK's in previous cases? Do you know?
Here are some for you to read on if you wish
10 Baffling Wives of Serial Killers
When we hear about serial killers, one of the most difficult things to mentally grasp (other than the inhuman acts committed by the killers) is that many of the murderer’s wives were oblivious to their husband’s evil doings.
https://listverse.com/2013/03/19/10-baffling-wives-of-serial-killers/

 

[Sustained]

Aren't there a few missing women in that area? How would anyone know if BoD was guilt of any previous crimes? It's not as if he would broadcast it to everyone.
How many cases of men who appear happily married with a family have been SK's in previous cases? Do you know?

So now Bobby is a master criminal who is responsible for missing women in northeastern Wisconsin ?
Does Zellner know that there are missing women up there ? She might be able to put Bobby within 100 square miles of one of them.

And do we really have to rehash the accusations against Stevie now ? No one has ever even accused Bobby of anything or you can be sure you would have heard about it. No criminal record unlike his Boy Scout uncle Stevie. You are grasping at straws trying to find anything that back the truther side of things.

 

[Karinna]

So now Bobby is a master criminal who is responsible for missing women in northeastern Wisconsin ?
Does Zellner know that there are missing women up there ? She might be able to put Bobby within 100 square miles of one of them.

And do we really have to rehash the accusations against Stevie now ? No one has ever even accused Bobby of anything or you can be sure you would have heard about it. No criminal record unlike his Boy Scout uncle Stevie. You are grasping at straws trying to find anything that back the truther side of things.

From the evidence of the sick obsessive viewings of BoD on the internet evidence he is one very sick person. And CP as well.
And that's not just my grasping at straws either, it is all in evidence.
Do you think a normal person would look at such sick content hundreds of times?

 

[RANCH]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's suggested that Bobby hasn't been arrested and charged with crimes he has committed because LE is covering up for him in a furtherance of their vast conspiracy in this case. JMO

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
Police procedure expert Gregg McCrary submitted a supplemental affidavit wherein he describes his opinion that the violent, underage, and child *advertiser censored*, combined with the images of and searches for dead bodies, “reflects a co-morbidity of sexual paraphilias.”

McCrary’s opinion is that “Bobby Dassey was becoming obsessively deviant in his viewing of violent *advertiser censored*” in the weeks “before Ms. Halbach’s October 31, 2005 appointment at the Avery Salvage yard property,” the defense motion alleges.
https://heavy.com/entertainment/2018/10/bobby-dassey-cd/

 

[Karinna]

Mr. G. McCrary's background
Mr. McCrary entered on duty as a Special Agent with the FBI on December 1, 1969. As an FBI Agent, he served in various investigative capacities throughout the United States. He has been associated with the National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC) since its inception in 1985. At the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia, Agent McCrary analyzed crimes and crime scenes, constructed behavioral profiles of unknown offenders and provided threat analysis and dangerousness assessments. He conducted research regarding violent offenders and their crimes and continues to provide training in these matters throughout the world.
Behavioral Criminology International: About Us - Gregg O. McCrary

 

[Sustained]

(quote)
Police procedure expert Gregg McCrary submitted a supplemental affidavit wherein he describes his opinion that the violent, underage, and child *advertiser censored*, combined with the images of and searches for dead bodies, “reflects a co-morbidity of sexual paraphilias.”

McCrary’s opinion is that “Bobby Dassey was becoming obsessively deviant in his viewing of violent *advertiser censored*” in the weeks “before Ms. Halbach’s October 31, 2005 appointment at the Avery Salvage yard property,” the defense motion alleges.
https://heavy.com/entertainment/2018/10/bobby-dassey-cd/

Where is the proof and any sexually violent images being looked at BEFORE Halbach was murdered by Avery & Halbach ? And once again, there are zero recorded accusations against Bobby. If Bobby was becoming obsessively deviant as McCrary says, common sense would tell you there would be something in the past 13+ years to corroborate that. How much was McCrary paid by Zellner for that affidavit ? Did Zellner ask McCrary about Stevie's background ?

But we have Stevie who was accused of rape by Marie Avery & a former baby sitter, masturbating by the road, grabbing Kayla's breasts, grabbing Brendan's crotch ... but crickets on Bobby. I'm sure all of those accusations against Stevie are just fabrications because Stevie is a stand up guy.

 

[Karinna]

Where is the proof and any sexually violent images being looked at BEFORE Halbach was murdered by Avery & Halbach ? And once again, there are zero recorded accusations against Bobby. If Bobby was becoming obsessively deviant as McCrary says, common sense would tell you there would be something in the past 13+ years to corroborate that. How much was McCrary paid by Zellner for that affidavit ? Did Zellner ask McCrary about Stevie's background ?

But we have Stevie who was accused of rape by Marie Avery & a former baby sitter, masturbating by the road, grabbing Kayla's breasts, grabbing Brendan's crotch ... but crickets on Bobby. I'm sure all of those accusations against Stevie are just fabrications because Stevie is a stand up guy.

The evidence is from the Dassey computer, that computer experts retrieved.
The discussion i was referencing was in regard to Bobby Dassey with the computer evidence which i provided a link for.
You also need to provide links if stating things as fact. I take it that what you say is just your opinion otherwise.