Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[LifeCitizen]

Well, we certainly can't figure out the truth about this case--but if that isn't one of the most true statements---I don't know what is.

Thanks for making my morning! :laugh:

....and Welcome LifeCitizen :welcome4::welcome4: to the :rollercoaster::rollercoaster:

Whoops totally missed this. Thank you BCA~!

 

[Murtagh21]

HELPINGHAND: I would argue that you could apply that thought process (e.g., It doesn't add up) to most high profile murder cases, but there should be a time when you allow the evidence to guide you. The reality of the Avery case is that you could have convicted 5 perps on the evidence presented at the 2007 trial. The victim's body burned in a fire pit in Avery's yard. The victim's cell phone, palm pilot, and digitial camera burned in a barrel 20 feet from Avery's front door. Avery's DNA found in 8 locations on 3 separate evidentiary items.

A bloody transfer stain found inside the victim's vehicle and DNA on a bullet fragment are both sourced to the victim. The victim was shot twice in the head and the bullet fragment was sourced to Avery's .22 rifle. There is evidence that Avery cleaned his garage with bleach on the day of the murders. The victim's vehicle is found on Avery's property, locked, and obscured with yard debris. IMO, to ignore all of this evidence indicates a disregard for critical thought, and the attempts to explain it away are a study in speculation.

 

[Acidtear]

MOTIVE: After Avery was placed in jail, two women came forward stating that Avery had raped them in 2004. The women did not know one another, yet both women stated that he threatened to kill their entire family if they reported the assault to the police. What motivates a sexual sadist to act upon his fantasies? Individuals who commit these heinous crimes are motivated by self-gratification.

Do you have a link or supporting documentation for this? I truly believe he's guilty from what I've researched so far but I'm trying to take in EVERY bit of evidence.

 

[HelpingHeart]

HELPINGHAND: I would argue that you could apply that thought process (e.g., It doesn't add up) to most high profile murder cases, but there should be a time when you allow the evidence to guide you. The reality of the Avery case is that you could have convicted 5 perps on the evidence presented at the 2007 trial. The victim's body burned in a fire pit in Avery's yard. The victim's cell phone, palm pilot, and digitial camera burned in a barrel 20 feet from Avery's front door. Avery's DNA found in 8 locations on 3 separate evidentiary items.

A bloody transfer stain found inside the victim's vehicle and DNA on a bullet fragment are both sourced to the victim. The victim was shot twice in the head and the bullet fragment was sourced to Avery's .22 rifle. There is evidence that Avery cleaned his garage with bleach on the day of the murders. The victim's vehicle is found on Avery's property, locked, and obscured with yard debris. IMO, to ignore all of this evidence indicates a disregard for critical thought, and the attempts to explain it away are a study in speculation.

I'm HelpingHeart, not Hand

The items found in the burn barrel don't add anymore evidence to what the documentary shows. The main evidence matters more - her car & body. They were both found on his property. However, no reason more of his DNA wasn't all over her car & her DNA in the garage. You cannot clean all that up with not one trace of DNA found. If he took her off property to shoot & killer her, why would he bring her back to his own property?

I also thought I read about the garage bleach being from cleaning up deer blood. I can't remember where I read that though. But there would be something of hers in the garage. And how could he have done it when the trucker saw her leave and the bus driver saw her too?

 

[HelpingHeart]

We can argue our points till we're blue in the face, he still needs a new trial - even if found guilty all over again.

 

[Jasper52]

Ex-detective says Steven Avery was framed, serial killer responsible for Teresa Halbach death

 

[Murtagh21]

ACIDTEAR: Here ya go.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/evidence-s-missing-making-murderer-article-1.2485213

 

[LifeCitizen]

Ex-detective says Steven Avery was framed, serial killer responsible for Teresa Halbach death

I don't believe this guy was responsible for this case, for the Laci Peterson case or the Jonbenet Ramsey case. That's bollocks. What murder didn't this guy commit, lol.

 

[Murtagh21]

DEXTER: I provided a link as requested by ACIDTEAR to the accusations by two women that Avery raped them in 2004. There are several other links both in print and on Youtube that mention these accusations. It is unclear whether any police reports were filed for both women claimed that Avery threatened to kill them if they went to the police.

If these allegations are true, they speak to a pattern of behavior that escalated to the point where Steven Avery murdered Teresa Halbach. It's a documented FACT that Avery killed a cat by setting it on fire. It's a documented FACT that in 1985, Avery ran a woman off the road and pointed a gun at her. It's a documented FACT that in jailhouse letters, he threatened to kill his wife. You can ignore these FACTS until the cows come home, but I choose to find these FACTS relevant to this case.

Your interpretation of Avery's response (e.g., ashamed) to killing the cat flies in the face of documented fact. In police reports and in a phone call with the filmmakers of the Netflix documentary, Avery minimizes this horrific act by defining it as the trappings of youth. Please.

Is Steven Avery a killer? IMO, the physical evidence demonstrates beyond ALL doubt that he shot Teresa Halbach in the head with his .22 rifle; he placed her in the back of her vehicle; he later threw her body and her clothing in his fire pit; he used tires as an accelerant to burn her body/clothing; he used a tire as an accelerant to burn her digital camera/palm pilot/cell phone in a barrel 20 feet from his front door; he drove her car to another part of the family compound; he locked the vehicle; he removed the license plates; he opened the hood to disable the vehicle; he covered the vehicle in yard debris; he placed the license plates in another vehicle on the compound; his nephew assisted him in using bleach to clean a 3-4 area in his garage; he broke up Teresa's bones with a shovel after the fire had died down; and he placed 3 larger bones in a barrel on his sister's property. Case closed.

 

[LifeCitizen]

DEXTER: I provided a link as requested by ACIDTEAR to the accusations by two women that Avery raped them in 2004. There are several other links both in print and on Youtube that mention these accusations. It is unclear whether any police reports were filed for both women claimed that Avery threatened to kill them if they went to the police.

If these allegations are true, they speak to a pattern of behavior that escalated to the point where Steven Avery murdered Teresa Halbach. It's a documented FACT that Avery killed a cat by setting it on fire. It's a documented FACT that in 1985, Avery ran a woman off the road and pointed a gun at her. It's a documented FACT that in jailhouse letters, he threatened to kill his wife. You can ignore these FACTS until the cows come home, but I choose to find these FACTS relevant to this case.

Your interpretation of Avery's response (e.g., ashamed) to killing the cat flies in the face of documented fact. In police reports and in a phone call with the filmmakers of the Netflix documentary, Avery minimizes this horrific act by defining it as the trappings of youth. Please.

Is Steven Avery a killer? IMO, the physical evidence demonstrates beyond ALL doubt that he shot Teresa Halbach in the head with his .22 rifle; he placed her in the back of her vehicle; he later threw her body and her clothing in his fire pit; he used tires as an accelerant to burn her body/clothing; he used a tire as an accelerant to burn her digital camera/palm pilot/cell phone in a barrel 20 feet from his front door; he drove her car to another part of the family compound; he locked the vehicle; he removed the license plates; he opened the hood to disable the vehicle; he covered the vehicle in yard debris; he placed the license plates in another vehicle on the compound; his nephew assisted him in using bleach to clean a 3-4 area in his garage; he broke up Teresa's bones with a shovel after the fire had died down; and he placed 3 larger bones in a barrel on his sister's property. Case closed.

The cat bothers me.

And him running his cousin off the road. That the gun wasn't loaded isn't the point for me.

The letters, I think she was threatening him before he threatened her, she had written to him saying she was giving the kids up I think, or something to that effect. So I kinda give him a pass on that, in that he was in jail for a crime he didnt commit and he was understandably angry. But I agree it doesn't look good.

If the allegations of prior rapes are true, it could change my mind and I would be off the fence, but its not clear if they were even reported. If they had been reported it would carry more weight for me.

I don't know who killed poor Teresa, I feel so sorry for her family, as a mother that would have killed me if I were her. That poor woman having to hear Kratz's bs and hear that her daughter was shovelled out of the burn pit. Very sad for everyone involved in her life.

 

[pseudo_hum]

Yep, he definitely did it.

 

[hoshizora]

I voted for Some other guy did it, Not guilty based on evidence I've seen thus far and Undecided, but believe new trial is in order.

If I were to be honest, I don't really know but more so lean towards him being not guilty. There are things on both sides that don't really make sense in some regards but some things, like no DNA from anyone being found on the bed/mattress makes me lean more towards the not guilty side but I really don't know.

Regardless of my opinion however, I do not believe that the evidence brought forth by the prosecution proved that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and a new trial should happen. However, now that this series has aired I think it would result in an even more tainted jury pool.

 

[hoshizora]

I don't know who killed poor Teresa, I feel so sorry for her family, as a mother that would have killed me if I were her. That poor woman having to hear Kratz's bs and hear that her daughter was shovelled out of the burn pit. Very sad for everyone involved in her life.

I know. I cannot imagine what her poor family went through and I felt terrible when the prosecution said at the trial of SA (I think it was the introduction) something like, "This was Teresa Halbach. And now this is all that remains" and shows a box of her bones. I know they were trying to get across the point that this was a terrible crime and it was, but my heart broke for her family seeing all that remained of their beautiful Teresa was a box of bones. So sad.

 

[hoshizora]

I don't believe this guy was responsible for this case, for the Laci Peterson case or the Jonbenet Ramsey case. That's bollocks. What murder didn't this guy commit, lol.

I'm surprised Israel Keyes hasn't been brought up in regards to this case. He usually is.

 

[Sustained]

A little humor for everyone ...

[video=youtube;Xtlu123dg0I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtlu123dg0I[/video]

 

[LifeCitizen]

lol Sustained. Funny.

 

[hoshizora]

A little humor for everyone ...

[video=youtube;Xtlu123dg0I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtlu123dg0I[/video]

Haha! Good find. I love how they mention Lionel Hutz

 

[Murtagh21]

Taking pot shots at Kratz is fair game, but stop with the disingenuous platitudes regarding the perceived emotional reactions by the Halbach family. The Halbach's publicly praised the prosecutors/investigators for the manner in which they collected and presented their "bs." That "bs" includes a laundry list of inculpatory evidence that was strong enough to convict Steven Avery of 1st degree murder. This evidence has stood the test of time as evidenced by the recent statements by Avery's new attorney.

Zellner has a penchant for talking trash and she fashions herself as a modern day Clarence Darrow. The problem she faces is that the burden of proof is on her and that burden is a daunting one. In order for her client to obtain relief or a new trial, she has to present new evidence that would result in no reasonable fact finder or juror finding her client guilty of murder. Her initial strategy doesn't appear to come close to meeting that burden. Rather than seeking new EDTA testing, she is seeking new Luminal testing for Avery's trailer and garage.

In 2006, Luminal tests in Avery's garage resulted in a 3-4 foot area glowing brightly due to a reaction to bleach. The relevance of this test result has been presented several times on this thread. Considering that the prosecution has already admitted that Luminal testing didn't find any of Halbach's blood in the Avery's garage/residence, how is new Luminal testing going to result in Avery receiving a new trial? At best, new Luminal testing is merely going to confirm the prosecution's position at trial. If this testing is to take place, it could backfire on Zellner, for it could detect the presence of Halbach's blood in Avery's garage and/or trailer.

 

[Miranda]

Guilty as sin but deserves a new trial (not trial by NETFLIX). We're fortunate enough to live in a society where everyone has the right to a fair trial. I certainly hope that happens sooner than later and Miss Halbach's family will live with the peace that they so deserve.

 

[Murtagh21]

MIRANDA: Why does Avery deserve a new trial? The appellate courts concluded that he received a fair trial. The Halbach's were completely satisfied with the verdict, so I would argue that they are currently at peace. The only way to disrupt this peace would be for Avery to receive a new trial. Fortunately, claims/hyperbole/accusations/speculation put forth by the Avery Camp will not sway appellate court judges. As I mentioned in my prior post, Zellner has to present new evidence that would result in no reasonable fact finder or juror finding Avery guilty of murder.