student kills self after webcam spying UPDATE: Conviction Overturned

[Tuffy]

It's pretty clear that he had no idea originally that it was broadcast over the internet. He posted that to his knowledge he did not think it was recorded. So if he wasn't that upset originally I'd guess it because he believed only his roommate saw it and not who knows how many more people through the internet. And regarding him being comfortable or not with his sexuality, even if he was comfortable, doesn't mean he would be o'key with the invasion of privacy.

So true, jjenny. I am a happily married woman, completely comfortable with my sexuality. No one would judge me for having a heterosexual relationship with my husband. I would, however, be completely devastated to find out that someone had recorded and broadcast me and my husband having sex.

I can totally see how whether gay or straight, this guy would take this horribly. It doesn't make suicide the answer though. But I could understand something like this pushing someone over the edge.

 

[Belinda]

Especially when you add in being at a new school less than a month.

 

[KIT777]

Hi.Long time lurker,first time poster. Anyways,I have not been able to stop thinking about Tyler.It really tugs at a place in my heart.When I began high school,my long time best friend decided that I wasn't cool enough to hang out with.Instead of saying so,she used all the secrets I had told her against me.Even worse,she took my diary and showed it around our school.Boy,did I feel like I was under a microscope!This may have been how Tyler felt.He no longer felt safe in his room and there was no where on campus he may have felt safe either.The thought in my mind whenever we switched classes was who read my diary.For Tyler,he may have wondered who saw the video.In his postings,he may have tried to make light of the situation or showed that he had things under control.Inside,he may have been scared,depressed,and humiliated.And nowhere in the freshman handbook,does it describe how to handle a situation like this.

I have been reading on other websites that Tyler had a choice and I agree.However,Ravi also had a choice.Did he really need to go to Molly's room and watch what was going on?Moreso,did Ravi have to post about it too?Once,Ravi made those choices,he then accepted any culpability that was to follow.Ravi made the choice to humiliate his room mate.His alternative could have been just to give Tyler privacy.Or if he felt uncomfortable with his room mate,he had a choice of talking to an RA.

Another thought I have is for not knowing Tyler all that long,Ravi should never have pulled a stunt such a this.It has been my philosophy to treat everyone with respect because you don't know what battles the other person has faced in life.

Even if Ravi had known Tyler for years this stunt is unacceptable on any level.This is not a prank.Speaking of Ellen,she has a monologue in which she talks about the phrase "just kidding".She uses it in various ways and at the end she says that if it's a joke then they should both be laughing.In this case,if it was a prank,then it would be funny to everyone.
A prank or a joke does not make someone fear for their safety.

I agree with Ellen that bullying is an epidemic and that no one is immune from it.To me,this is not an issue because Tyler may have been gay.It is an issue because Tyler was someone in this world.He was a person that had feelings and let those feelings over whelm him.I do not think he was weak for choosing suicide.I think it was the feelings and thoughts that overwhelmed him.He may have felt he did not have had a way out.

Dan Savage's project is brilliant because it does get better.He may be directing those messages at teens who are gay but it is a message for anyone that is being bullied.It does get better.

Sorry so long...thanks for letting me share.

 

[believe09]

Here is the clip to the Ellen Degeneres video..it has been making the rounds on Facebook today.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=592846987806&ref=mf

Warning, it made me cry.

 

[daisy7]

Here is the clip to the Ellen Degeneres video..it has been making the rounds on Facebook today.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=592846987806&ref=mf

Warning, it made me cry.

Thanks, Believe, for posting. I shared it on FB also.

 

[Jacobi]

Anything that is live-streamed can easily be recorded. I can assure you that someone in the circle of people who were watching the stream recorded the video.

I thought the second streaming attempt was a bust, i.e. that Clementi turned off the computer, and that the first stream was only accessed by the group in Wei's room. As far as I know, using iChat, the stream can only be recorded if both parties click to accept being recorded. It could have been scripted, remotely administered or third party software could have been used, but by the comments on his twitter, I doubt that to be the case. What evidence do you have that someone recorded the stream? I maintain there is a difference between streaming and recording/uploading a video. They may result in the same thing, but there is a chance it doesn't. The difference is between supposition and absolute certainty, especially in the mind of Clementi.

 

[Paintr]

Hi.Long time lurker,first time poster. Anyways,I have not been able to stop thinking about Tyler.It really tugs at a place in my heart.When I began high school,my long time best friend decided that I wasn't cool enough to hang out with.Instead of saying so,she used all the secrets I had told her against me.Even worse,she took my diary and showed it around our school.Boy,did I feel like I was under a microscope!This may have been how Tyler felt.He no longer felt safe in his room and there was no where on campus he may have felt safe either.The thought in my mind whenever we switched classes was who read my diary.For Tyler,he may have wondered who saw the video.In his postings,he may have tried to make light of the situation or showed that he had things under control.Inside,he may have been scared,depressed,and humiliated.And nowhere in the freshman handbook,does it describe how to handle a situation like this.

I have been reading on other websites that Tyler had a choice and I agree.However,Ravi also had a choice.Did he really need to go to Molly's room and watch what was going on?Moreso,did Ravi have to post about it too?Once,Ravi made those choices,he then accepted any culpability that was to follow.Ravi made the choice to humiliate his room mate.His alternative could have been just to give Tyler privacy.Or if he felt uncomfortable with his room mate,he had a choice of talking to an RA.

Another thought I have is for not knowing Tyler all that long,Ravi should never have pulled a stunt such a this.It has been my philosophy to treat everyone with respect because you don't know what battles the other person has faced in life.

Even if Ravi had known Tyler for years this stunt is unacceptable on any level.This is not a prank.Speaking of Ellen,she has a monologue in which she talks about the phrase "just kidding".She uses it in various ways and at the end she says that if it's a joke then they should both be laughing.In this case,if it was a prank,then it would be funny to everyone.
A prank or a joke does not make someone fear for their safety.

I agree with Ellen that bullying is an epidemic and that no one is immune from it.To me,this is not an issue because Tyler may have been gay.It is an issue because Tyler was someone in this world.He was a person that had feelings and let those feelings over whelm him.I do not think he was weak for choosing suicide.I think it was the feelings and thoughts that overwhelmed him.He may have felt he did not have had a way out.

Dan Savage's project is brilliant because it does get better.He may be directing those messages at teens who are gay but it is a message for anyone that is being bullied.It does get better.

Sorry so long...thanks for letting me share.

:Welcome-12-june: to WS! Great first post!

 

[Paintr]

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/10/02/rutgers-remembers-student-who-killed-self-after-video-of-affair/

Rutgers Holds Pregame Moment of Silence for Tyler Clementi

Prior to the start of Saturday's homecoming game against Tulane in Piscataway, N.J., Rutgers' public address announcer asked game participants and attendees for a moment of silence for 18-year-old freshman Tyler Clementi.

 

[Paintr]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/01/todd-starnes-george-washington-bridge-ridgewood-rutgers-university/

How Has Destroying Lives Become a Spectator Sport?

The officer explained to the couple that their son had parked his car on the New Jersey side of the Hudson River. They said he posted a final message on his Facebook page and then began the long walk over the George Washington Bridge.

“Jumping off the gw bridge sorry,” he wrote.

And so it happened that the soft-spoken boy with sandy hair stopped and climbed over the railing. A witness said the anguished young man paused for a moment -- and then Tyler Clementi plunged into eternity.

Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei will answer for their alleged crimes -- but the damage that’s been caused is irreversible.

 

[gitana1]

not trying to blame this child at all. I am heartsick for him and his parents, and don't in any way condone what the roommate did. BUT, he was on the internet himself in flagrante. Not on a live web chat, but on the permanent, we know what you're doing forever, internet, doing very private things publicly. I know that was his choice, and not others to take away, but still. Posting yourself in that way kind of diminishes the *my privacy* argument.

Frankly, I can see the outing of *that* being more likely to have led to his death than the roommate's ichat stream. jmoo.

Where are you getting this info?I have seen no proof that Tyler was publishing video of himself engaged in sexual activity of any kind.

But people who feel that it is truly immoral should have the right to feel so. They don't have the right to act on that in their own immoral fashion i.e. posting sex things on the internet. But they have the right to their belief that it is immoral.

Tyler put himself out there recording himself - he may not be "out" with his family - but he certainly wasn't hiding himself. See the gawker link I posted above.....if a straight girl did that at 18, we'd be saying "geez, what was wrong with her parents not teaching her that once it's out there it's out there forever? "

I feel like there's a double standard here, and that there is more to his suicide than what is indicated so far - but we may never know. I don't think he gets a pass for what else was out there, neither do I believe the idiot who posted it gets a pass. Did his Ravi know Tyler had stuff online?
Again, I just think there's more to it.

I looked at the link you posted. Seems he was chatting about issues dealing with homosexuality and may have been looking for dates. Nothing on your link showed he published himself engaged in sexual activity or doing anything immoral, unless you think it's immoral to post online looking for dates. I don't like internet dating sites much but what I think you may be inferring he was doing is something different and I see no proof of that.

Also, I'm not sure why the right for people to feel being homosexual is immoral is relevant to what the peeping toms did to Tyler, with the exception that historically, people feel less sympathy for victims who they think are leading an immoral life, and less disgust towards criminals who harm such victims. Kind of how some rape victims used to be looked at: "Well she was wearing a short skirt and making out with a guy. She was asking for it."

 

[jjenny]

So true, jjenny. I am a happily married woman, completely comfortable with my sexuality. No one would judge me for having a heterosexual relationship with my husband. I would, however, be completely devastated to find out that someone had recorded and broadcast me and my husband having sex.

I can totally see how whether gay or straight, this guy would take this horribly. It doesn't make suicide the answer though. But I could understand something like this pushing someone over the edge.

It doesn't even have to be anything to do with sexual activity. When someone has a reasonable expectation of privacy (like being in ones home, bathroom, or a in this case a dorm room) that someone doesn't expect that what he or she is doing might end up on the internet for everybody to see. I do not understand the mindset of some people that broadcasting someone's private behavior is a joke. I believe that the message needs to be send that it's not o'key to broadcast someone's private behavior on the internet without consent.

 

[germaine]

Where are you getting this info?I have seen no proof that Tyler was publishing video of himself engaged in sexual activity of any kind.

the gawker link should include his cam4.com profile info and a pic (not sure if it's the whole pic or not). Google cam4.com and you'll see what I mean. But don't click on the link unless you want an eye full, and probably a nasty virus. Let's just say it's not for posting your graduation vid! :::yikes:::

eta: here's another link talking about the cam4 account

http://www.slate.com/id/2269301/

 

[Missizzy]

Excellent post, Gitana. I didn't see any evidence, either, that Tyler had ever done something like posting streaming video of his private dates on the internet. He was a young man looking for a date. And how many adults do the exact same thing and have a reasonable expectation of privacy and decency? Bless his heart.

As sweet as the moment of silence for Tyler at the Rutger's game was, Tyler probably would have been embarrassed by it. He seemed like a shy young man. I do wish, though, that Ravi and Wei could see how many students see their behavior reprehensible. Maybe, just maybe, the lesson will sink in with a few kids.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101003...lYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDcnV0Z2Vyc2hvbm9y

 

[jjenny]

the gawker link should include his cam4.com profile info and a pic (not sure if it's the whole pic or not). Google cam4.com and you'll see what I mean. But don't click on the link unless you want an eye full, and probably a nasty virus. Let's just say it's not for posting your graduation vid! :::yikes:::

eta: here's another link talking about the cam4 account

http://www.slate.com/id/2269301/

That profile has been deleted. By the way whether he did or did not post photos of himself on line doesn't give someone permission to then secretly webcam him and broadcast videos of him.
Do you believe that it would be o'key to rape someone who is sexually active? Because suggesting that if he posted something of him on-line gives others green light to broadcast what is intended to be private on the internet sounds a lot to me like suggesting that it's o'key to rape someone because that someone is already sexually active.

 

[Hucklepie]

To me, the sites Tyler posted on - by choice - are irrelevant to whether or not the video was devastating to him. Whatever he posted on the cam sites or anywhere else was by choice, and he was in control of the material and the level of anonymity. His roommate took all of that into his own hands in publicly posting the video.

It's not the same, but I think back to when I was in college and posted on an Internet board about some sensitive issues that very few people knew (and still know) about me. This particular Internet bulletin board is long since defunct, I don't still use the screen name or have the e-mail address associated with that screen name, and to the best of my knowledge, there's no way to connect me to those posts from more than a decade ago even if the board still existed. I have no problem with having posted about it anonymously on an Internet site of my choice, but if I were to wake up tomorrow and find that someone had leaked those posts, with my identifying information attached, to my parents, my coworkers, and my students, I would be HORRIFIED, and my situation is certainly not as significant as Tyler's. I can see him being humiliated enough to take extreme measures in his situation.

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

I feel so deeply sad for this young man. I heard(on HLN)that the person who was responsible for the "prank", did not mean it to lead to the death of his fellow schoolmate. It does not make it any better nor excuse such cruel and thoughtless behavior by any stretch, of course.

I can believe this person could not have known this tragic outcome(unless there is information in which I am unaware). Having said that, this "prank" goes waay beyond what I think is acceptable behavior. At no age would I have thought something like that was okay to do to anyone, even my worst enemy(if I had one of those, which I never have I don't think like that).

For some, being rejected by society leads them to be criminals, they act out their rejection/take it out on society. Others, turn this pain inward and become depressed. Society gives the message that some people are not acceptable. IMHO, The guilt and shame for some is too much to bear. I cannot be a part of giving people those feelings, when I would not want to be judged in that way.

What is really wrong is what happened to the young man who felt so shamed he thought the only way out was to take his life, and the other student who will have to live with the choice to do something so cruel with such a tragic outcome. A message that a group of people don't belong due to some people's beliefs or opinions, gives license(in some people's minds obviously) to make those who are shunned their victims, the message is it is okay to think of some people as being less or flawed-somehow deserving less respect or rights. This kind of thinking/policy had led only to disaster in the past, as it has now.

A very sad story. He was so worried about what everyone would think. It's like being a part of some awful high school, being a part of humanity sometimes. Pranks are stupid, I have always thought so, I hate :furious: hate the show "Punked" and any shows like it. It takes no brains to fool a person when they are unsuspecting, that takes evil intent. It has NEVER been funny to me to make someone a joke or afraid, I find it repulsive and always have.

I am sorry this happened. My sympathies to everyone involved.

...jmo...

 

[feddup]

Sorry that both Ravi & Wei's parents for paying college tuition and find out they got trouble by their recent actions. That's tough way to start out by sending them there & might lose them to prison due to broke the law.

I would be HORRIFIED if I was them if my son acted in such a mean way and caused such pain and embarrassment for another young man.
They didnt know that this would embarass the young man? I think theyre mean and hope they get the book thrown at them.
This meaness needs to stop. It is so sad that this happened
I hope its a lesson to other kids as to what meaness can do to another persons psyche.

 

[jjenny]

I didn't link to the profile, I linked to blogs about the profile which are already here.

I don't think compaing rape to invasion of privacy is valid, and posting yourself on gay *advertiser censored* sites is not just being *sexually active*, imo

My point was, he's not some shy, insecure, unassuming kid who was ashamed of his gayness. He personally put himself out there on the internet on gay *advertiser censored* sites with streaming live webcam feeds. That is the ONLY purpose of cam4. If my kid had TC as a roommate I would have been PLENTY upset. And not just because he was gay.

Doesn't mean he deserved what happened. Like I also said, I'm heartsick for him and his parents. But I can still feel that way while knowing the truth about the situation.

I see. What if your kid had Ravi as a roommate? Would that make you happy?
Again, what somebody posts of themselves on line is their business.
It doesn't give anybody else permission for others to post what is expected to be private on-line without consent.

 

[jjenny]

I would be HORRIFIED if I was them if my son acted in such a mean way and caused such pain and embarrassment for another young man.
They didnt know that this would embarass the young man? I think theyre mean and hope they get the book thrown at them.
This meaness needs to stop. It is so sad that this happened
I hope its a lesson to other kids as to what meaness can do to another persons psyche.

And never mind what was allegedly done is against the school's code of conduct and can result in expulsion. I'd think just that alone should have stopped any student think of doing that.

 

[Charlie09]

I see. What if your kid had Ravi as a roommate? Would that make you happy?
Again, what somebody posts of themselves on line is their business.
It doesn't give anybody else permission for others to post what is expected to be private on-line without consent.

What I keep thinking is that what if my kid was away at college and didn't know how to respond to overt sexuality from a roommate - gay or straight.
Would she call me for advice? If she called her RA would her RA take her seriously? Would she be afraid of saying something? (No, she would not post pictures of the encounter) but how would she respond? How do I teach her as she's growing up - people have a right to their sexuality, and guess what? They can post on any website they want to, and a stranger is allowed in your room when you aren't there, your roommate has the right to ask you to be out of your room that I have paid for, but it's ok, because sex rights trump any safety concerns or consequences. What if she wasn't comfortable giving up their dorm room till midnight? Really, this is something we have to teach our kids before they go away to school?



I don't in any way excuse Ravi - NO EXCUSE, it was wrong. There was no indication that this would result in Tyler's death.

Another thought that goes through my mind this is deplorable but these kids have grown up watching shows like Punked - where things are taped secretly, and then later revealed - and it's always hilarious, no matter how embarrassing it is.

It does matter that Tyler posted on other sites....it does not mean it gives Ravi a pass on any level - but it matters.