student kills self after webcam spying UPDATE: Conviction Overturned

[MoonFlwr]

I don't in any way excuse Ravi - NO EXCUSE, it was wrong. There was no indication that this would result in Tyler's death.

Another thought that goes through my mind this is deplorable but these kids have grown up watching shows like Punked - where things are taped secretly, and then later revealed - and it's always hilarious, no matter how embarrassing it is.

It does matter that Tyler posted on other sites....it does not mean it gives Ravi a pass on any level - but it matters.

respectfully snipped for space...

I don't see how it matters that he posted on other sites.

 

[Charlie09]

respectfully snipped for space...

I don't see how it matters that he posted on other sites.

Do you really know for sure if it was the roommate situation or another situation because those videos are online or something completely unrelated that caused him to jump off the bridge?

 

[jjenny]

Do you really know for sure if it was the roommate situation or another situation because those videos are online or something completely unrelated that caused him to jump off the bridge?

I don't see how anyone can know "for sure" unless he left a detailed suicide note. Somehow I doubt that his suicide was completely unrelated to this situation which happened so close in time prior to suicide and by all appearances bothered and upset him. In addition, what his roommate is accused of doing is a crime regardless of why exactly the victim committed suicide.

 

[jjenny]

What I keep thinking is that what if my kid was away at college and didn't know how to respond to overt sexuality from a roommate - gay or straight.
Would she call me for advice? If she called her RA would her RA take her seriously? Would she be afraid of saying something? (No, she would not post pictures of the encounter) but how would she respond? How do I teach her as she's growing up - people have a right to their sexuality, and guess what? They can post on any website they want to, and a stranger is allowed in your room when you aren't there, your roommate has the right to ask you to be out of your room that I have paid for, but it's ok, because sex rights trump any safety concerns or consequences. What if she wasn't comfortable giving up their dorm room till midnight? Really, this is something we have to teach our kids before they go away to school?



I don't in any way excuse Ravi - NO EXCUSE, it was wrong. There was no indication that this would result in Tyler's death.

Another thought that goes through my mind this is deplorable but these kids have grown up watching shows like Punked - where things are taped secretly, and then later revealed - and it's always hilarious, no matter how embarrassing it is.

It does matter that Tyler posted on other sites....it does not mean it gives Ravi a pass on any level - but it matters.

What if a kid was in college and the roommate used a webcam on her while she believed that what she was doing was going to be private? I am trying to understand as to why it seems to bother some people so much more whether their kid would be able to deal with her roommate's sexuality than the idea that what their kid was doing in private could end up on the internet without her consent?

 

[the seeker]

Something that I have been thinking about regarding this...maybe the boyfriend was upset about the taping more than Tyler himself, and there was a falling out because of it, that Tyler was so upset about. Whatever the reason, what those two "kids" did was inexcusable and cruel to the point of being evil. What if Tyler hadnt been secure about his sexuality? What if he was the type of person that this type of thing could devestate (and perhaps that IS the reason he took his life), none of that matters. What Ravi did was wrong no matter who he did it to, and he should be punished. It shows a real lack of compassion and respect for others in him, which is pretty scary, frankly.

 

[Charlie09]

I don't see how anyone can know "for sure" unless he left a detailed suicide note. Somehow I doubt that his suicide was completely unrelated to this situation which happened so close in time prior to suicide and by all appearances bothered and upset him. In addition, what his roommate is accused of doing is a crime regardless of why exactly the victim committed suicide.

What a perfect revenge that would be.

 

[Charlie09]

What if a kid was in college and the roommate used a webcam on her while she believed that what she was doing was going to be private? I am trying to understand as to why it seems to bother some people so much more whether their kid would be able to deal with her roommate's sexuality than the idea that what their kid was doing in private could end up on the internet without her consent?

They are both issues...If Ravi knew how to handle his roommate's sexuality - would that have prevented the posting of the tape?

That's right we don't know...we don't know the entire motivation of the posting - only that it happened.

And there was a suicide later.....

 

[daisy7]

(CNN) -- Rutgers University will hold a vigil Sunday as the campus grapples with the suicide of a student whose sexual encounter with another man was broadcast online.

The body of Tyler Clementi, 18, was recovered from the Hudson River on Thursday, more than a week after he jumped from the George Washington Bridge, which spans the river between New York and New Jersey.

Two other Rutgers students -- Clementi's roommate, Dharun Ravi, 18, and Molly Wei, 18 -- have been charged with invasion of privacy. The pair allegedly placed a camera in Clementi's dorm room without his knowledge and then streamed his sexual encounter online, according to the Middlesex County, New Jersey, prosecutor's office.

The vigil will unite student organizations, campus offices and LGBT communities "as an opportunity for the members of the community and our allies to stand together united in peace, healing and social justice," a statement from the university said.

(snip)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/03/new.jersey.student.suicide/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[jjenny]

They are both issues...If Ravi knew how to handle his roommate's sexuality - would that have prevented the posting of the tape?

That's right we don't know...we don't know the entire motivation of the posting - only that it happened.

And there was a suicide later.....

The motivation of what Ravi is accused of doing is irrelevant unless he is charged with the bias crime (and he hasn't been so far).
For invasion of privacy charges Ravi's motivation does not matter. If Tyler was a straight boy who had a girlfriend over it would still be wrong and illegal to broadcast a video of his sexual encounter on-line without his consent.

 

[KIT777]

:Welcome-12-june: to WS! Great first post!

Thanks for the welcome!

I am not sure if I am understanding correctly...it appears that there may be information regarding Tyler's membership at certain websites.I agree with many others here that regardless of Tyler's online persona,it still does not make what Ravi did acceptable.Tyler may have done some questionable activities online but that was his choice.

This may be a stretch of a metaphor but it's the only one I can think of right now.If a woman is raped,we don't question what she was wearing at the time.Even if a woman is wearing a short skirt,it still does not give her rapist the right to sexually violate her.In Tyler's case,his membership to certain websites did not give Ravi the right to violate Tyler's privacy either.That's JMHO.

Tyler probably had many sides to his personality.We've been hearing about how shy and quiet he was.But he may have had another side too which was exploring his sexuality in various ways.We all are complex individuals.For instance,using a personal example,I am very quiet at my job because I feel I do not have much in common with the people I work with.However,when I am with my friends from grad school,I love to laugh and make corny jokes.I can be different personas depending on who I am with.Tyler may have had a persona that everyone knew and another one that he was using to figure things out.

Tyler may have struggled with his sexuality for awhile or it may have been something he figured he would try out being away from home for the first time.Either way,we can't assume anything.The one thing we do know is that he was hurt and in pain.

From the bottom of my heart,I hope Tyler's family is able to find solace and strength to continue the difficult journey of coming to terms with the circumstances surrounding their son's sudden death.

RIP Tyler ♥

 

[pugglesworth]

I don't see how spying on someone and remotely watching them have sex would somehow be a way to cope with being overwhelmed by having to deal with someone's sexuality. What?? If you were that icked out by your roommate having sex, you'd think you'd try to get as far away as possible, not watch it like a peep show.

 

[Paintr]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/friends_of_dharun_ravi_molly_w.html

Friends of Dharun Ravi, Molly Wei support pair charged in Rutgers sex video case



Most of the internet musings run from "Guilty!" to "Here’s hoping they both go to jail for a long time," to "Two pieces of scum."

Few of the postings reflect the picture friends paint of Ravi and Wei: smart, well-liked, on the threshold of promising futures.

"A lot of the online news sources, what I’ve read, have kind of hinted that he’s a prankster. That he’s kind of homophobic," said Michael Zhuang, 17, a friend of Ravi’s. "He’s really not. He’s very, very open-minded."

 

[jjenny]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/friends_of_dharun_ravi_molly_w.html

Friends of Dharun Ravi, Molly Wei support pair charged in Rutgers sex video case



Most of the internet musings run from "Guilty!" to "Here’s hoping they both go to jail for a long time," to "Two pieces of scum."

Few of the postings reflect the picture friends paint of Ravi and Wei: smart, well-liked, on the threshold of promising futures.

"A lot of the online news sources, what I’ve read, have kind of hinted that he’s a prankster. That he’s kind of homophobic," said Michael Zhuang, 17, a friend of Ravi’s. "He’s really not. He’s very, very open-minded."

The same friend of Ravi's is quoted in another article saying it would have been no different if it were a girl in the room. Really? Is that supposed to make us feel good? Would posting video of unsuspecting roommate having a private moment with a girl be all that much better?

 

[germaine]

The same friend of Ravi's is quoted in another article saying it would have been no different if it were a girl in the room. Really? Is that supposed to make us feel good? Would posting video of unsuspecting roommate having a private moment with a girl be all that much better?

I think it's supposed to address the msm's rabid agenda to portray this as a hate crime. jmoo

 

[Charlie09]

The same friend of Ravi's is quoted in another article saying it would have been no different if it were a girl in the room. Really? Is that supposed to make us feel good? Would posting video of unsuspecting roommate having a private moment with a girl be all that much better?

I don't think how any bystander "feels" is what is important here. It's not any better or worse if it would have been recorded regardless of gay or straight, but I do think it's something parents close their eyes to in preparing kids about going away to school for the first time.

I still feel the underlying issue is the juvenile response to sex in general. It's an emotionally immature reaction that had potentially deadly results.

We have to do better in teaching our kids what is on the net is there forever, and private acts are to be private.

Yes it is Ravi that is responsible for this posting, but there are probably hundreds if not more of these that happen daily that don't end up as front page news.

 

[Paintr]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/04/earlyshow/main6925226.shtml

What Could Accused Face in Tyler Clementi Case?
Legal Analyst Jack Ford Discusses How Hate Crime Charges May Enhance Penalties Toward Dharun Ravi, Molly Wei, If Convicted

video of the discussion...

 

[jjenny]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/04/earlyshow/main6925226.shtml

What Could Accused Face in Tyler Clementi Case?
Legal Analyst Jack Ford Discusses How Hate Crime Charges May Enhance Penalties Toward Dharun Ravi, Molly Wei, If Convicted

video of the discussion...

To be honest I am quite surprised that what they are accused here likely will not result in any jail time whatsoever even if they are convicted since they are first time offenders. What exactly is to stop other people from doing it to somebody else?

 

[Charlie09]

To be honest I am quite surprised that what they are accused here likely will not result in any jail time whatsoever even if they are convicted since they are first time offenders. What exactly is to stop other people from doing it to somebody else?

Knowing the ramifications of actions.
Parents being horrified and taking the time to talk to their kids about it.

There's a final tipping point for people that commit suicide, but it's not usually over one isolated incident. To blame Ravi and Molly completely, and to have them take the complete consequences for Tyler's actions is just as immoral as their actions.

 

[passionflower]

IMO, where is respect? love your neighbor? courtesy? privacy?
I ask bullies out there, would you want someone to do this to you even if you are
a straight person???

 

[LCoastMom]

I didn't link to the profile, I linked to blogs about the profile which are already here.

I don't think compaing rape to invasion of privacy is valid, and posting yourself on gay *advertiser censored* sites is not just being *sexually active*, imo

My point was, he's not some shy, insecure, unassuming kid who was ashamed of his gayness. He personally put himself out there on the internet on gay *advertiser censored* sites with streaming live webcam feeds. That is the ONLY purpose of cam4. If my kid had TC as a roommate I would have been PLENTY upset. And not just because he was gay.

Doesn't mean he deserved what happened. Like I also said, I'm heartsick for him and his parents. But I can still feel that way while knowing the truth about the situation.

BBM Really? If I had a choice (which we do not) I would choose Tyler over Ravi in a hot minute. I hope my kids left home knowing how to handle situations, like a room mate who asks you to make yourself scarce - on the other hand, finding out after the fact that you've been viewed in a private act - broadcast to anyone who cares to watch! I sure as hell never warned them about anything like this!

What anyone choses to put out there her/him - self does not give ANYONE else permission to invade their privacy!! I don't care if Tyler was turning tricks, for a quarter on the street corner (not suggesting he was) - he had a right to expect privacy in his room.

If Ravi didn't feel like being out of the room, he had every right to say so - He did not have a right to broadcast anything Tyler did while behind closed doors.