student kills self after webcam spying UPDATE: Conviction Overturned

[germaine]

http://news.spreadit.org/dharun-ravi-molly-wei-group-pushes-murder-charges-in-tyler-clementi-death/


The group alleges that because the taping was premeditated, they should face charges hat are similar to that of a drunk driving death. Conversely, other individuals are fighting for the charges to remain the way that they are. It is a case that will divide many people, and has already caused quite a bit of controversy around the nation. The question is not whether or not the two of them should be charged, but rather what they should be charged with.

I'm wondering why the blog doesn't name the group that's calling for this.

 

[Charlie09]

The difference is clear and obvious to me: it's not legal to tape and broadcast someone's sexual encounter when that someone has a reasonable expectation of privacy. There is no law that says someone can not brag about her or his sexual encounters.

Sounds like a double standard to me. We can agree to disagree, I see no meeting of the minds. take care -

 

[LinasK]

Sounds like a double standard to me. We can agree to disagree, I see no meeting of the minds. take care -

Not a double standard at all.:snooty: When a person chooses to expose themself whether it be the internet, TV, movies, or photos ala Madonna or Brittney Spears, it is their right. It is noone else's right to decide to take that privacy away from those who choose not to act that way!!!

 

[reb]

Hhmmm..... I'm a little confused. Why is this incident considered 'bullying'...? There is so evidence that Mr. Ravi 'bullied' Mr. Clementi-- he invaded his privacy by not only spying but sharing it with other people. I don't agree that this is bullying. But regardless... I really don't consider this any worse of a crime just because he was gay..... a gross invasion of privacy is just as wrong whether you're straight or gay. And someone could have killed themselves whether they were straight or gay. (In fact, I wonder if a straight person had jumped off the bridge, would it have even made the news at all..?) However... it seems the only REASON the Mr. Ravi was so interested in what his roommate was doing (which sounds a little weird if you ask me.... maybe he's curious himself..?) is that Mr. Clementi was gay. In other words,, maybe he wouldn't have done it in the first place if Mr. C was straight (& was in the room with a female). Or......... would he...??

At any rate.. this is the kind of stuff we are going to see more of, with the latest twisted generation who has not only grown up with computers.. but has also grown up with no sense of privacy, with everyone posting every second of what they do every day on the net for the world to see.. and they spend more time in a fantasy cyber-world than face to face with real people. (Not that there isn't pros & cons to both types of communication.) Maybe also, this particular kid was having a moment of youthful poor judgment where he thought he was playing a 'jackass' type prank just to 'razz' the guy... millions of other college kids do outlandish things to each other for a laugh every day, and maybe he didn't do it to be evil and abusive, but just for a laugh... obviously being utterly clueless of the enormous ramifications of his actions.
But people are getting so caught up in the emotion of it all, and making this guy out to be evil incarnate..... And those calling for 'murder charges'... that is ridiculous. They are obviously reacting to the fact that the man was gay. So,, if a straight person jumped off the bridge, would they still be calling it murder? I highly doubt it. Just because Mr. Clementi was not 'out' to his friends yet, does not mean the other 2 should go to jail for murder. Obviously if he was that destroyed to where he jumped off a bridge, there was much more going on in his life to drive him to that point. It's a complicated case and kind of uncharted territory.. but still. Let's have some level-headed thinking here.

 

[Charlie09]

Not a double standard at all.:snooty: When a person chooses to expose themself whether it be the internet, TV, movies, or photos ala Madonna or Brittney Spears, it is their right. It is noone else's right to decide to take that privacy away from those who choose not to act that way!!!

The men that the woman posted about on Jezebel.com did not consent to be talked about - it is the same thing.

 

[LinasK]

College for me was dial up BBS era...

When I went to college, the internet was not in widespread existence, it was in its infancy. People were just beginning to figure out e-mail! Yeah, I know, the stone age... but seriously I use the internet daily now- several times/day. I'm well aware that things that are posted are open for the world to see and may stay there permanently, and yes I use Facebook and have familiarity with MySpace and Twitter too, imagine that!!!

 

[jjenny]

The men that the woman posted about on Jezebel.com did not consent to be talked about - it is the same thing.

It's not the same thing to the law. There are no laws stating she has to get their consent before talking about them. She also has not made any videotapes of them, as far as I know.

 

[jjenny]

Hhmmm..... I'm a little confused. Why is this incident considered 'bullying'...? There is so evidence that Mr. Ravi 'bullied' Mr. Clementi-- he invaded his privacy by not only spying but sharing it with other people. I don't agree that this is bullying. But regardless... I really don't consider this any worse of a crime just because he was gay..... a gross invasion of privacy is just as wrong whether you're straight or gay. And someone could have killed themselves whether they were straight or gay. (In fact, I wonder if a straight person had jumped off the bridge, would it have even made the news at all..?) However... it seems the only REASON the Mr. Ravi was so interested in what his roommate was doing (which sounds a little weird if you ask me.... maybe he's curious himself..?) is that Mr. Clementi was gay. In other words,, maybe he wouldn't have done it in the first place if Mr. C was straight (& was in the room with a female). Or......... would he...??

At any rate.. this is the kind of stuff we are going to see more of, with the latest twisted generation who has not only grown up with computers.. but has also grown up with no sense of privacy, with everyone posting every second of what they do every day on the net for the world to see.. and they spend more time in a fantasy cyber-world than face to face with real people. (Not that there isn't pros & cons to both types of communication.) Maybe also, this particular kid was having a moment of youthful poor judgment where he thought he was playing a 'jackass' type prank just to 'razz' the guy... millions of other college kids do outlandish things to each other for a laugh every day, and maybe he didn't do it to be evil and abusive, but just for a laugh... obviously being utterly clueless of the enormous ramifications of his actions.
But people are getting so caught up in the emotion of it all, and making this guy out to be evil incarnate..... And those calling for 'murder charges'... that is ridiculous. They are obviously reacting to the fact that the man was gay. So,, if a straight person jumped off the bridge, would they still be calling it murder? I highly doubt it. Just because Mr. Clementi was not 'out' to his friends yet, does not mean the other 2 should go to jail for murder. Obviously if he was that destroyed to where he jumped off a bridge, there was much more going on in his life to drive him to that point. It's a complicated case and kind of uncharted territory.. but still. Let's have some level-headed thinking here.

The two aren't charged with his suicide, or because he was gay, they are charged with invasion of privacy. There are laws making it illegal to videotape someone engaged in a sexual conduct if that someone has a reasonable expectation of privacy, and laws against distributing such videos without the person's consent.

 

[Lucid]

Hhmmm..... I'm a little confused. Why is this incident considered 'bullying'...? There is so evidence that Mr. Ravi 'bullied' Mr. Clementi-- he invaded his privacy by not only spying but sharing it with other people. I don't agree that this is bullying.

This is MOO:

I think Ravi intentionally set out to make a fool out of Tyler. He strikes me as the type who will put others down to boost his own popularity. By doing this to Tyler, he attempted to make himself look funnier, cooler, better, and be the center of attention with god only knows how many people attempting to connect to his webstream. When everyone laughs and jokes about it later, he will get high fives and slaps on the back while Tyler blushes in the corner, too embarrassed and ashamed to show his face again. I'd bet nobody knew about his sexuality - his roommate certainly seemed unaware when he first posted about it on twitter.

This is what immediately struck me upon reading his twitter page. "My roommate kissing another guy. Yay." (not an exact quote) He thinks a lot of himself, and attempts to be funny.

Making a fool out of Tyler in front of his peers IS bullying. Just because he didn't punch him or knock him down or shove him in the hall doesn't make it any less than what it is - embarrassing somebody to make his own self feel better.

Again, its just my opinion, and what I immediately thought after reading words written by Ravi himself. Also, if I have said something wrong, mods, I'm sorry. I'm not sure if I should be posting a link to the twitter screenshot or if we are even allowed to talk about it anymore. As you can see by my lame post count, I don't say a whole lot and mostly just read, so I'm still a little confused from time to time on what can and can't be talked about.

 

[LCoastMom]

This is MOO:

I think Ravi intentionally set out to make a fool out of Tyler. He strikes me as the type who will put others down to boost his own popularity. By doing this to Tyler, he attempted to make himself look funnier, cooler, better, and be the center of attention with god only knows how many people attempting to connect to his webstream. When everyone laughs and jokes about it later, he will get high fives and slaps on the back while Tyler blushes in the corner, too embarrassed and ashamed to show his face again. I'd bet nobody knew about his sexuality - his roommate certainly seemed unaware when he first posted about it on twitter.

This is what immediately struck me upon reading his twitter page. "My roommate kissing another guy. Yay." (not an exact quote) He thinks a lot of himself, and attempts to be funny.

Making a fool out of Tyler in front of his peers IS bullying. Just because he didn't punch him or knock him down or shove him in the hall doesn't make it any less than what it is - embarrassing somebody to make his own self feel better.

Again, its just my opinion, and what I immediately thought after reading words written by Ravi himself. Also, if I have said something wrong, mods, I'm sorry. I'm not sure if I should be posting a link to the twitter screenshot or if we are even allowed to talk about it anymore. As you can see by my lame post count, I don't say a whole lot and mostly just read, so I'm still a little confused from time to time on what can and can't be talked about.

BBM - This is what jumped out at me too - he was fully aware of what he was doing.

 

[tlcya]

I was so saddened by this case. My genuine heartfelt thoughts and prayers to this young man's friends and family.

I sincerely hope that this family finds justice.

 

[Charlie09]

I was so saddened by this case. My genuine heartfelt thoughts and prayers to this young man's friends and family.

I sincerely hope that this family finds justice.

How does one find justice for a suicide?

 

[daisy7]

I (think) this is from AC 360 last night

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/10/05/ac.kaye.rutgers.bullying.suicide.cnn?iref=allsearch

 

[LinasK]

It would seem like voyeurism is just part of college? (Which is absurd, unless no one had ever thought to say what the consequences could be)

And should universities make sites unaccessible? http://techcrunch.com/2008/11/19/juicycampus-gets-banned-from-tsu-cries-foul/

To those of us who were in college pre-Internet days, honestly would we have thought of saying "alright, don't record anyone having sex and for crying out loud don't post anything that you wouldn't want posted about yourself"

When I went to college, the internet was not in widespread existence, it was in its infancy. People were just beginning to figure out e-mail! Yeah, I know, the stone age... but seriously I use the internet daily now- several times/day. I'm well aware that things that are posted are open for the world to see and may stay there permanently, and yes I use Facebook and have familiarity with MySpace and Twitter too, imagine that!!!

Yes, because pre-internet college days, cameras and cam-corders were still in existence and so was e-mail beginning! It was originally through a Navy system called Arpanet, I believe ( would know better, my college was using UNIX- based programming). Prodigy- as a Browser has been around since at least 1991 and I learned how to post my first website in 1998! Facebook has also been around for at least a couple of years, not brand-new technology! These "kids" Ravi & Molly clearly knew it was wrong!!!

 

[Paintr]

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/tyler-clementi-police-report-20101005

Lawyers for Molly Wei, a Rutgers first-year student accused of secretly video streaming classmate Tyler Clementi's sexual encounter with a man, say their client is innocent. They say she is "a wonderful, caring and talented young woman with a bright future

snip...


The Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office in New Jersey has not ruled anything out and that there is still a possibility that bias crime charges could be filed against the two students -- Dharun Ravi and Wei -- who are accused of violating Clementi's privacy.

 

[Paintr]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20018636-504083.html

Tyler Clementi: Molly Wei's Lawyers Say She's Innocent

"I'm unaware of any case in New Jersey where the homicide statutes have been used to hold somebody responsible for somebody else who chose to commit suicide," Middlesex Prosecutor Bruce Kaplan said. Kaplan said he would rather be "right" than "expedient" when asked whether there would be a specific timeline for bringing additional charges.

 

[Paintr]

http://diverseeducation.com/article/14214/


Perspectives: It’s About Common Sense and Decency



The news reports have rightly highlighted the anger most people are feeling at the loss of a young promising life. We all should be disgusted when learning of a dumb, senseless, immature, unreasonable act results in the death of a human being. We should also be troubled when college freshmen seemingly cannot distinguish between right and wrong, between what is private and what is public, and when the desire or ability to find out something about someone that really is none of their concern trumps the law, decency, ethical behavior, and all that is right.

 

[Lucid]

http://diverseeducation.com/article/14214/


Perspectives: It’s About Common Sense and Decency



The news reports have rightly highlighted the anger most people are feeling at the loss of a young promising life. We all should be disgusted when learning of a dumb, senseless, immature, unreasonable act results in the death of a human being. We should also be troubled when college freshmen seemingly cannot distinguish between right and wrong, between what is private and what is public, and when the desire or ability to find out something about someone that really is none of their concern trumps the law, decency, ethical behavior, and all that is right.

This is a fantastic quote, and I thank you for it. I really do hope the people involved are punished, if only to teach them (and others) this lesson that nobody apparently seems to know anymore.

 

[Paintr]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-suspect-dhuran-ravi-breaks-silence-tyler-clementi/story?id=11812453

Dhuran Ravi and Molly Wei Deny They Had Any Bias Against Tyler Clementi

Ravi's lawyer...


"In regards to statements made by the prosecuting agencies of their continuing investigation and whether to file bias charges against Dharun Ravi, I am heartened to hear that they are taking their time to learn all the facts before rushing to judgment. I can only hope that the public will do the same," wrote Altman. "I am confident that nothing will be learned to justify, warrant or support the filing of any bias criminal complaint."

snip...

Wei's attorney released a statement insisting on his client's innocence.

"This is a tragic situation. But this tragedy has also unfairly led to rampant speculation and misinformation, which threaten to overwhelm the actual facts of the matter," said attorney William Fisher. "Those true facts will reveal that Molly Wei is innocent. Molly committed no crime. Her remarkable reputation is being unjustly tarnished by uninformed and incorrect assumptions."

Fisher added that Wei is a "wonderful, caring and talented young woman with a bright future" who has been "maligned by unfounded attacks on her character."

 

[Paintr]

So....according to their lawyers...Ravi is a potential victim of 'rush to judgment' and Molly is 'maligned by unfounded attacks on her character.' So they are the victims now? Where does that leave Tyler? :waitasec: