"Stun Gun" marks

[IrishMist]

Camper--I think the flashlight was left out to "suggest" an intruder placed it there and to "account" for its earlier use (neighbor observed strange lights in kitchen area). The fingerprints were wiped from the flashlight body because those prints would indicate who handled it last. The fingerprints were wiped from the batteries because those prints would indicate who owned the flashlight. The Ramseys couldn't put it back in the drawer wiped clean because that would point right to them. They didn't hide it or dispose of it because they needed to "show" that an intruder was in the home and used it. They didn't point it out as being odd or out-of-place on Dec. 26 because that would seem too suspicious. They just kept quiet about it and let the police take it from there. They certainly drew suspicion to themselves by wiping the batteries, but that was their way of distancing themselves from it while at the same time using it to their advantage.

This makes sense to me.

 

[Jayelles]

Our Maglite is at least 7 years old and we keep it on our boat. I'm pretty certain that we either bought it at the marina's chandlery or that it was my father in law's (which means it could be a lot older than 7 years). The sailing season doesn't begin till mid april so I can't check until then. I know my handbag torch is definitely a maglite (I looked it up on their website - the model is called Solitaire) but I am less confident that the boat torch is a maglite now. I was sure it was, but I wouldn't swear to it right at this moment.

The torch on the boat has the same feel as the binoculors - the coating gives you a good grip.

 

[Camper]

Camper,

It was the neighbor directly to the south, Diane Brumfit, who noticed the Ramsey security light located at the southeast corner of the sun room, was turned off that night. She remembered it because it was odd for the light not to be burning since it had been on every night for years.

The next door neighbor to the north, Scott Gibbons, reported the late-night movement of people in the Ramsey kitchen. Gibbons said they appeared to be creeping around quietly so as not to be heard by others in the house. He also mentioned seeing a light in the butler kitchen around midnight, the first time he had ever seen that light on. Gibbons said he observed these unusual late-night activities from the window of his kitchen.

BlueCrab

--->>>Thanks BC, I should not have used the collective term 'WE' don't know, I should have said, 'I' don't know. Since you did know.

Wonder IF these two neighbors still live in the same houses? Wonder how Gibbons knew what 'window' he was looking into, IF he had been a visitor in the home, or? If I am remembering correctly wasn't that portion of the home with the butlers kitchen, part of the remodeling process, and was an added feature?

.

 

[Solace]

Tober,


Why not, who is to know it ever left the drawer?

I reckon the maglite was present either at JonBenet's original location of her death , or/and was also used in the wine-cellar.

The Ransom Note was intended to flag up an intruder and they had no problem telling everyone about that!

imo the best guess is that the maglite played a part in a prior staging which when revised meant the maglite was redundant but as part of the alleged crime-scene was still wiped clean. I would speculate that JonBenet was whacked on the head with that maglite, which was then left by her side, say in her bedroom?


.

Sounds right.

 

[Tober]

imo the best guess is that the maglite played a part in a prior staging which when revised meant the maglite was redundant but as part of the alleged crime-scene was still wiped clean. I would speculate that JonBenet was whacked on the head with that maglite, which was then left by her side, say in her bedroom?

UKGuy--What are some supporting factors that there may have been a prior staging which was then revised?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy--What are some supporting factors that there may have been a prior staging which was then revised?

Tober,
I have enumerated these extensively, particularly for those that think JonBenet was killed in the wine-cellar, BlueCrab also has alternative theories that support prior staging.

In no particular order of importance:

1. JonBenet's upper torso represents her day-clothes, the lower half her night-clothes

2. JonBenet's hair has asymmetric ponytails, and different colored hair-ties.

3. JonBenet has been wiped down, but her face left covered in mucous.

4. The ransom note implies a dumping scenario.

5. The severe head fracture may represent post-mortem staging.

6. She may have been sexually assaulted with the painbrush and posed indecently

7. JonBenet is wearing fresh size-12 underwear.

8. Her body was relocated to the basement.

9. She was wrapped in blankets e.g. for dumping outdoors?

10. JonBenet is wearing no socks.

11. The stun-gun marks may be post-mortem contusions.


Since some aspects are inconsistent with an kidnapping for money scenario e.g. asphyxiation, sexual assault, change of underwear, hair restyled etc, then it appears JonBenet may have been killed in one location, then been staged in another e.g. her bedroom complete with her hair restyled, but then this was all revised down to the wine-cellar, where a bedtime abduction was intended to be presented, this is why her barbie-nitegown is down there, and if she had been redressed in that, with her urine-soaked clothing removed then Lou Smit's intruder theory may have looked pretty good?

 

[Dru]

UKGuy, just wanted to address the hair-tie point. (#2 on your list)

I've watched several JBR tribute videos on YouTube, and there are lots of pics of JBR where she is, in fact, wearing hair ties that do not match. Not in any of the pageant pics, of course: just normal little girl pics, where she's running around in the yard, playing etc. I don't think PR was putting JBR in matching ponytails all the time.

Just FYI.

 

[JMO8778]

I don't know what to make of her hairstyle in the artist's drawing of her body...do you think it was layered to try to cover the head wound? any thoughts on that? thx.

...of course we know there was no outer swelling or laceration,I was thinking someone wasn't in their proper frame of mind at the moment and was afraid it might swell,or thinking if the ligature is the obv. cause of death,maybe an autopsy wouldn't be necessary?I mean you never know what someone could be thinking,that's why I think it's very possible looking up the word 'incest' might not be staging..perhaps someone was looking for a more narrow definition of it,in terms of what a legal one might be,according to what the autopsy shows(or doesn't show,rather).

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Don't tell me you want me to track down the Atlanta and Boulder jewelry stores!

Yes, please oh please will you??? We know you can do it...I have great faith in your super abilities.

Here is the link (yes, again) to my photos:

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

All you have to do is get the attention of a jeweler who will recall, "Yep. I remember setting a cluster ring for John Ramsey in 1993...Hang on a minute. I think I have the diagram of the setting in my files..."

Go on.

We will wait right here, ok?

:angel:

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Oh, and for anyone who missed the ring theory I posted the first 800 times (sorry about that - I just think the more people who I get to listen to me, the better ), lol, here it is again:


I have a theory about the "stun gun" marks. First of
all, does anyone know if Patsy wore any rings on a
regular basis, or if she had any on at the White's
party? I'll get back to that thought in a moment.

Anyway, as peculiar as this sounds, I had a dream last
night about JB. Ok, so I am doped up on cold medicine,
so give me a little bit of room here, lol.

Basically, in the dream, I was holding JB, in a way I
often hold my own little girl. It was just a flash of
a second in my dream, but the whole thing even made
sense in the morning.

So, I tried the 'dream hold' on my daughter today.
Yes, she thinks I am nutty, lol, but I figured that a
good hug between us is welcomed at any time, no matter
what my motive.

I sat on the floor with my child in my lap, with her
legs both hanging over my left leg. She was kind of
sitting up, laying her weight on her left hip, facing
me. I held her head in my right hand and the fingers
on my right hand ended up on her right cheek and/or or
on her neck. So, I gave her a kiss on the nose, lol...

My left arm was over her right side and my left hand
ended up, quite naturally, on the lower, left side of
her back.

This is typically how I hold her when I 'rock' my
great-big baby girl, or when I carry her quickly in a
rain-storm (when walking would be too slow), or any
other time I have to move her in a hurry and I want to
get a good grip on her and hold her close at the same
time.

Try it with your own child. Make sure his or her face
is close to your face (and don't forget the kiss on
the nose.) This hug kind of looks like holding a
guitar.

Now, back to Patsy's rings (or not). Now, if PR
accidentally killed (or thought she killed) JB, there
would have been a lot of squeezing and rocking with
mother and child in this exact position. If PR was
wearing two or more rings on each hand AND she held,
and squeezed JB in this manner, (a little too hard out
of grief and overwhelming anguish) would those rings
leave marks similar to the "stun gun" marks? I think
so.

The positioning of where a grown-up's fingers would
land on a child of JB's size match up perfectly to
where the marks were found on her body. AND, the
distance between the marks (within each set of marks)
is just about the distance between two adult fingers.

Of course, the rings would most likely have been on
backwards. That is the only problem I have with this
theory. However, as I am typing, two of my rings are
reversed and they swing around constantly.

I even thought about trying this trick with four
smiley-faced-stamper rings. But, since I don't want my
poor little girl to be too severely emotionally
scarred by my obsessive sleuthing, lol, I didn't
conduct this further experiment.
+++++

I did conduct an additional 'experiment.' I am
posting a link to marks I made on the smooth part of
my right hand. I squeezed my right hand with my left
hand. I had two, round-cut rings on my left hand.
Both rings are mounted with four-prongs.

Please see the link below:

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

With very little effort, I was able to reproduce the
exact markings I see on the autopsy photos of Jonbenet
Ramsey.

In addition, the marks fell approximately 3.5
centimeters apart.

As I outlined in my original post, the angle of the marks
on Jonbenet (from the autopsy photos) line up in an
identical pattern and angle to where an adult's
fingers would rest if that adult was holding a child
as I described. It is crucial to note that this is a
very common position for a parent (typically a mom) to
hold and/or rock their small child.

The positions are the same. The markings made by me
are nearly identical to the marks on Jonbenet's body.

Once again:
*The positions of the marks can be explained, within a
fraction of an inch.
*The distance between two marks of either pair of
marks can be explained.
*The angle of the marks (extremely important!) can be
explained.
*The 'weapon' or cause of the marks can be explained.
* If Patsy's rings made the marks, then evidence, or
at least witnesses can testify to their existence.
*Both the occurence of the marks and the location of
the marks can be easily re-created in any court room.
* This theory explains why 'stun gun' marks are NOT
equidistant (as they would be expected to be) on the
body of Jonbenet....

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I find your ring theory to be very plausible, WolfmarsGirl. I hope you don't mind, but I've mentioned your theory on other boards and linked people to posts of yours here.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy, just wanted to address the hair-tie point. (#2 on your list)

I've watched several JBR tribute videos on YouTube, and there are lots of pics of JBR where she is, in fact, wearing hair ties that do not match. Not in any of the pageant pics, of course: just normal little girl pics, where she's running around in the yard, playing etc. I don't think PR was putting JBR in matching ponytails all the time.

Just FYI.

Dru,

Thanks for the information. Its not a smoking gun feature, but I reckon for a xmas party at the White's, she would have had matching hair-ties. Bear in mind Patsy herself said she checked over what JonBenet was wanting to wear. Did you notice on any of the videos that her ponytails were asymmetric?


.

 

[Ames]

Dru,

Thanks for the information. Its not a smoking gun feature, but I reckon for a xmas party at the White's, she would have had matching hair-ties. Bear in mind Patsy herself said she checked over what JonBenet was wanting to wear. Did you notice on any of the videos that her ponytails were asymmetric?


.

UKGuy....I have to agree with you on this...I do not for one second believe that Patsy would have put JB's hair into two ponytails for the Christmas party, much less used hair ties that did not match. (HEAVEN FORBID ) Patsy did say in one of her interviews though, that she always put JB's hair in a ponytail (she didn't say how many), before she went to bed every night. I am PDI, and John helped stage.....my question to Patsy would be....if JB was "zonked out" when she arrived from the Whites, and had to be carried up to bed, and she never woke up.....then how did those ponytails get onto her head??

 

[Solace]

UKGuy....I have to agree with you on this...I do not for one second believe that Patsy would have put JB's hair into two ponytails for the Christmas party, much less used hair ties that did not match. (HEAVEN FORBID ) Patsy did say in one of her interviews though, that she always put JB's hair in a ponytail (she didn't say how many), before she went to bed every night. I am PDI, and John helped stage.....my question to Patsy would be....if JB was "zonked out" when she arrived from the Whites, and had to be carried up to bed, and she never woke up.....then how did those ponytails get onto her head??

Probably sometime after she "WALKED" into the house as originally stated by everyone in that family.

 

[Camper]

The collective WE meaning Websleuth posters have NEVER seen photos from the Whites Christmas party, that I know of.

So singularly I have NEVER seen photos that were taken at the Whites Christmas party to verify how JonBenets hair was done for the party.

The one photo that I have seen of Burke and JonBenet 'that' Christmas morning at home, her hair was toussled and did not look like to me anyway that it had been in pony tails from the night of the 24th.

So wonderment crosses my mind that 'perhaps' JonBenets hair was never put into pony tails on any night prior, unless JonBenet did it herself. That might explain the two different colors.

.

 

[UKGuy]

The collective WE meaning Websleuth posters have NEVER seen photos from the Whites Christmas party, that I know of.

So singularly I have NEVER seen photos that were taken at the Whites Christmas party to verify how JonBenets hair was done for the party.

The one photo that I have seen of Burke and JonBenet 'that' Christmas morning at home, her hair was toussled and did not look like to me anyway that it had been in pony tails from the night of the 24th.

So wonderment crosses my mind that 'perhaps' JonBenets hair was never put into pony tails on any night prior, unless JonBenet did it herself. That might explain the two different colors.

.

Camper,

I agree, but in the absence of any other explanation I'm assuming she may have worn them to the White's say symmetrically, but when she was whacked on the head, followed by a quick staging, leaving her ponytails asymmetric.

Otherwise as you suggest she may have done the ponytails herself, and also possibly wore the red turtleneck too e.g. dressing up, which is part of another theory of mine, and plays into a prior staging.

The big question is could JonBenet do her own ponytails or did Patsy always do them, same as did she habitually wear underwear to bed? Both of these questions relate to JonBenet's bedtime attire.


.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy....I have to agree with you on this...I do not for one second believe that Patsy would have put JB's hair into two ponytails for the Christmas party, much less used hair ties that did not match. (HEAVEN FORBID ) Patsy did say in one of her interviews though, that she always put JB's hair in a ponytail (she didn't say how many), before she went to bed every night. I am PDI, and John helped stage.....my question to Patsy would be....if JB was "zonked out" when she arrived from the Whites, and had to be carried up to bed, and she never woke up.....then how did those ponytails get onto her head??

Ames,

I tend to agree with you, those ponytails if she never had them at the White's xmas-party then someone more than likely staged them, imo to fake a bedtime scenario, e.g. barbie-nitegown.

I reckon that was the purpose of the wine-cellar staging a bedtime abduction and a revision from some prior staging, but on this I may be wrong, as JonBenet may have changed her clothes on arriving home, but it was never completed!

Of course:

Patsy did say in one of her interviews though, that she always put JB's hair in a ponytail (she didn't say how many), before she went to bed every night.

if this is meant to be factually correct e.g. Patsy's version, and you are asking:

then how did those ponytails get onto her head??

This indirectly confirms one of two things, Patsy is lying about JonBenet being placed straight into bed, because either JonBenet was readied for bed complete with ponytails, or someone else who also knew that Jonbenet's hair was put up in ponytails, so would match a bedtime abduction scenario, and it looks in both cases as if Patsy is the prime candidate?

.

.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

I find your ring theory to be very plausible, WolfmarsGirl. I hope you don't mind, but I've mentioned your theory on other boards and linked people to posts of yours here.

Absolutely! No problem. I want everyone to hear about this possibility and the more posts the better! Thanks bunches

 

[Solace]

Absolutely! No problem. I want everyone to hear about this possibility and the more posts the better! Thanks bunches

WolfmarsGirl. I agree with your ring theory. It should definitely be looked into.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

WolfmarsGirl. I agree with your ring theory. It should definitely be looked into.

Thanks Solace . I don't know how to advance this theory further. Until or, more exactly, unless anyone actually involved in the investigation listens to me (to us), then the theory is just a theory.

I have written letters and emails to everyone I can think of over the years and no one seems to give much credence to my theory. Maybe I am way out there, lol, and completely wrong about this idea.

The problem is that I don't think I am...