Summary of Damien's Mental Health History

[Mary456]

I don't want to offend anyone by getting back on topic, i.e., Damien's mental health history.

However, just to let you know, I will be making some revisions soon and will update his mental health history.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Has he been retested? If not, I don't see anything to update.

 

[Mary456]

Has he been retested? If not, I don't see anything to update.

Oh, but there's so much more in the 500. I've barely scratched the surface!

 

[claudicici]

There is not a single thing in the "500" that connects Damien to the crime scene or the victims

 

[claudicici]

I wished we had access to a summary of Terry Hobbs mental health.


I have no doubt that this man is a sexual sadist and a possible sociopath.

Damien on the other hand is full of teen angst.IMO Angst is something deep within you ,it's very different from anger,as a matter of fact ,it's an anger you can't express.
Let's say it's true Damien killed the dog.
I think that would give us so much insight in how the little boys would have been killed if in fact Damien could be linked to it.It would be gory and bloody.The killing would be directed at oneself not against the victim (eg the dog)Like cutting yourself to get rid of the pain inside of you.
It would be an outlet of a deep seated anxiety and depression Damien undoubtedly had.


IMO on the other hand this crime was motivated by anger against the boys ( or at least one of the boys) and TH's uses sexual sadism against people he is angry about (Mildred French) I don't believe the castration of Christopher was done by animals.
I think this crime was far more brutal than a parental beating.
Too many sexual undertones.There's no way Damien or the other two can be linked to that.

There is no logical or reasonable motive for Damien,Jessie and Jason.
there is for TH.
There is no reasonable circumstantial or physical evidence linking Damien,Jessie or Jason to the crime.
There is for TH.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

cl,

I'd like to comment on two things in your previous post.

1) Damien was filled with teen angst; he's over it now and is filled with child-like wonder about this world and the changes it has undergone while he was unjustly imprisoned.

2) I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I believe the degloving was done by animals. Although I believe TH is capable of it (and it looks like an action done in anger so I can easily understand your belief), I trust the plethora of experts that, although disagreeing about some aspects of the crime, all agree that the degloving was caused by postmortem animal predation.

BTW, OT here. IMO, it appears that Damien's mental health is much improved from the teen angst and depression from which he suffered back in the 90's. It seems that his main problems now are in learning to deal with the technology of the 21st century!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/magazine/a-death-row-love-story.html?_r=2

 

[I Must Break You]

There is not a single thing in the "500" that connects Damien to the crime scene or the victims

This is the most important aspect of the "500", no evidence which supports Damiens guilt. Now I never really bought into just the rebellious teen aspect many supporters have in regards to Damien. I really believe he was a very troubled teen and could have used some long term counseling. He also really was a, how to say, starts with an a and ends with a hole as a teen and probably needed a really good slap upside the head. So no I don't buy him a choir boy as some have painted him as, but I also am able to separate what is apparently proof of a deeply troubled teen from that of a child murderer.

 

[Paige SC]

I have read extensively about this case, and the majority of the information that I have read about the supposed incident referred to dismisses it as unreliable. The person making the statement was not called to testify at either the trial or the penalty phase of the trial. Damien has said that he never killed a dog as described. So, in that way, the statement has been discredited. IMO, it has never been proven to be true because the witness was not called to testify at the trial. Also, no Great Dane owner has come forward to claim than his dog was killed, and it's highly unlikely that a Great Dane would be a stray.

IMO, that means one of two things: the prosecution didn't think the witness was credible or the prosecution didn't think his statement was important. In a case about a Satanic killing, I would think someone making a statement about Damien killing a dog (which would back up some of Jessie's ramblings) would be important. Therefore, I must conclude that the prosecution didn't see the witness and/or his information as credible or reliable.

FYI, the person who made that statement was Jason Baldwin's cousin.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

FYI, the person who made that statement was Jason Baldwin's cousin.

I know who made the statement. It still doesn't make it the truth.

 

[Paige SC]

i know who made the statement. It still doesn't make it the truth.

nor does it make it a lie.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I guess the point here is that one such incident (if it happened) doesn't prove that Damien was usually a cruel person. It certainly doesn't prove that he is a murderer. If one such incident of cruelty could prove that someone was a murderer, I can cite several people who have stated that TH was cruel to his step son on numerous occasions.

 

[Paige SC]

I guess the point here is that one such incident (if it happened) doesn't prove that Damien was usually a cruel person. It certainly doesn't prove that he is a murderer. If one such incident of cruelty could prove that someone was a murderer, I can cite several people who have stated that TH was cruel to his step son on numerous occasions.

I'm inclined to believe no matter what the evidence, no matter how cruel one is to helpless animals, no matter if you change your name to that of a demon child, no matter what psychosis you've suffered from, no matter how violent or how many times you've been institutionalized, no matter if you threaten to murder your parents and eat them alive, or claw your classmates eyeballs out, regardless if pompus Damien confessed today, there are groupies out there who will never entertain the idea the WM3 killed 3 little boys.

Here's what I know for FACT, TWO juries convicted them. they are former felons for which the crime was triple homicide and they plead guilty to murder via the alford plea.

 

[Cappuccino]

They're also free to get on with their lives, thankfully. No amount of obsessing about how someone changed their name to something you associate with a fictional character, or whatever, is going to put them back in prison either.

At least one part of the injustice of this case is undone. Hopefully the person who did murder those three children will receive the justice they deserve, not only for the murders but also for allowing three innocent people to suffer for their crime.

 

[Cappuccino]

no matter if you change your name to that of a demon child,

I still can't get over the way people use the name change to Damien as if it was incriminating though. It just makes me laugh, its one of those red flags in this case, which signals that the prosecution has no evidence. The naivete of anybody who thinks changing your name to Damien means you're a Satanist, or otherwise evil, is pretty breathtaking.

Here's the news - Damien is not a "demon child", he is a fictional character in a made up film. Which is not real - do you get that? The film was not factual. The Omen was not a documentary, and btw nor were any of the books Jerry Driver was reading at the time.* The name Damien has no more significance to Satanists than the name Nigel.

If Michael Wayne Echols had changed his name to Anton or Aleister, then you might have a point, but he didn't. To use the name Damien as evidence against him is just pathetic. It reveals the whole sorry mixture of superstitious fear, naivete, religious hatred and pure ignorance which was always the basis for the case against the West Memphis Three.

*Driver was steeped in Satanic Panic literature, telling all about how Satanists breed babies for sacrifice, and urinate in victims stomachs, and all kinds of sick nonsense. Gary Gitchell was a weak enough leader to allow this delusional prat to project his sick fantasies onto something as serious as a murder investigation.

And the rest is history.

 

[Paige SC]

I still can't get over the way people use the name change to Damien as if it was incriminating though. It just makes me laugh, its one of those red flags in this case, which signals that the prosecution has no evidence. The naivete of anybody who thinks changing your name to Damien means you're a Satanist, or otherwise evil, is pretty breathtaking.

Here's the news - Damien is not a "demon child", he is a fictional character in a made up film. Which is not real - do you get that? The film was not factual. The Omen was not a documentary, and btw nor were any of the books Jerry Driver was reading at the time.* The name Damien has no more significance to Satanists than the name Nigel.

If Michael Wayne Echols had changed his name to Anton or Aleister, then you might have a point, but he didn't. To use the name Damien as evidence against him is just pathetic. It reveals the whole sorry mixture of superstitious fear, naivete, religious hatred and pure ignorance which was always the basis for the case against the West Memphis Three.

*Driver was steeped in Satanic Panic literature, telling all about how Satanists breed babies for sacrifice, and urinate in victims stomachs, and all kinds of sick nonsense. Gary Gitchell was a weak enough leader to allow this delusional prat to project his sick fantasies onto something as serious as a murder investigation.

And the rest is history.

The name Damien is synonymous with evil based on the 80's fictional character (like pea soup is to being possessed by a demon) Echols, for lack of a more sophisticated term, was "simple", limited in resources.. he could even pass for "trailer trash". Don't romanticize him as if he was some brilliant scholar or a SERIOUS study of Wicca or whatever it is he dabbled in. He was a punk who lived in a trailer and bullied everyone around him. It's MY opinion that he was probably a HUGE fan of the Omen, as were MANY punks back in the day. Is it evidence? NO, but that doesn't mean it should be disregarded as being indicative of his overall character at the time he committed the murders.

IMOIMOIMOIMOIMOIMO

 

[Cappuccino]

The name Damien is synonymous with evil based on the 80's fictional character (like pea soup is to being possessed by a demon) Echols, for lack of a more sophisticated term, was "simple", limited in resources.. he could even pass for "trailer trash". Don't romanticize him as if he was some brilliant scholar or a SERIOUS study of Wicca or whatever it is he dabbled in. He was a punk who lived in a trailer and bullied everyone around him. It's MY opinion that he was probably a HUGE fan of the Omen, as were MANY punks back in the day. Is it evidence? NO, but that doesn't mean it should be disregarded as being indicative of his overall character at the time he committed the murders.

IMOIMOIMOIMOIMOIMO

Yes, it should be disregarded, and here's why. Firstly, you are projecting the fact that YOU find the name Damien synonymous with evil onto Echols. You really don't know what he associated the name with, so your judgement on his character is based on an unfounded assumption.

Secondly, there is nothing about this crime which points to any occult influence at all, whether "serious Satanism", or mere teenage punk Omen fan. Which means that even if your assumption that Echols was a huge fan of a particular 1980s film was correct, it is still an irrelevant character assassination which has no bearing on the murders which took place.

Btw, what's with all the concentration on Damien living in a trailer? IMO, the guilt or innocence of any individual should be judged on the evidence, regardless of whether they live in a trailer or a mansion.

 

[Paige SC]

Yes, it should be disregarded, and here's why. Firstly, you are projecting the fact that YOU find the name Damien synonymous with evil onto Echols. You really don't know what he associated the name with, so your judgement on his character is based on an unfounded assumption.

Secondly, there is nothing about this crime which points to any occult influence at all, whether "serious Satanism", or mere teenage punk Omen fan. Which means that even if your assumption that Echols was a huge fan of a particular 1980s film was correct, it is still an irrelevant character assassination which has no bearing on the murders which took place.

Btw, what's with all the concentration on Damien living in a trailer? IMO, the guilt or innocence of any individual should be judged on the evidence, regardless of whether they live in a trailer or a mansion.

The guy owned books on the occult. The name Damien is (not just for ME) synonymous with evil based on the movie 'the omen'. I bet if you took a poll of strangers on the street and asked them what was the first thing that comes to their minds when you mention ''Damien'', they would reply 'evil' or 'demonic'. As for where he lived, I don't give a rats behind if he lived in a mansion, I am meerly pointing out that he wasn't some intellectual scholar at the time he committed these crimes. He was a disturbed teen who threatened to eat his parents, reportedly abused animals, he was filled with rage and never acted in a way that would lead me to believe he DIDN'T commit the murders. <modsnip>

 

[Cappuccino]

The guy owned books on the occult. The name Damien is (not just for ME) synonymous with evil based on the movie 'the omen'. I bet if you took a poll of strangers on the street and asked them what was the first thing that comes to their minds when you mention ''Damien'', they would reply 'evil' or 'demonic'. As for where he lived, I don't give a rats behind if he lived in a mansion, I am meerly pointing out that he wasn't some intellectual scholar at the time he committed these crimes. He was a disturbed teen who threatened to eat his parents, reportedly abused animals, he was filled with rage and never acted in a way that would lead me to believe he DIDN'T commit the murders.

Yes, he owned books on the occult - which means, unlike many in the pool of random strangers on the street, he would have known full well that the name Damien is no more significant to Satanists than Nigel. Therefore, there's no guarantee at all that the first thing which would come to his mind when you mention "Damien" would be as ill-informed as theirs.

There is no need to point out that he wasn't "some intellectual scholar", because I have never said that he was. That's what is known as a strawman argument. What supporters have always said is that Damien was a troubled teen, but that the contents of Exhibit 500 are exaggerated, and should not be taken as gospel truth.

As for expecting Damien to act in a way that would lead you to believe he DIDN'T commit the murders, that's demanding proof of a negative, and like your strawman, that is a logical fallacy. At least half the population of West Memphis could be convicted if we all started from a presumption of guilt and demanded that they act in a way that makes us believe they DIDN'T do it. You're supposed to do it the other way around - start from the presumption of innocence, and look for proof positive that he DID do it.

So let's do it that way round - the victims were not Damien's parents, they were not eaten, and there were absolutely no occult trappings present at the crime scene, or inherent to the crime itself. There is one unsubstantiated story in Exhibit 500 about Damien killing a Great Dane. Apart from the story itself being dubious, even if true, you should still bear this in mind - while many murderers do start off by killing animals, most people who kill animals never graduate to killing people. In short, none of the things you have quoted in your post implicate Damien in this crime.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

In short, none of the things you have quoted in your post implicate Damien in this crime.

<respectfully snipped>

This is the crux of the issue here. None of the information contained in Exhibit 500, and none of the other things mentioned above, prove that Damien (or Jason or Jessie, either) was anywhere near the Robinhood Hills Woods (or the Blue Beacon Woods, either) on May 5, 1993. None of the evidence collected at the discovery ditch can be conclusively linked to Damien. In fact, there is no evidence that Damien, Jason or Jessie committed these murders.

IMO, the fact that they were all released indicates that the State knew that a mistake was made, but they were too sorry to admit it, primarily (IMO) as a result of the near-bankrupt status of the State of Arkansas and the multimillion dollar lawsuit that the three would win if error was admitted, the State was looking for an out. The defense gave it to them with the Alford Plea, and they grabbed it like a drowning man grabs a life line. End of story.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Who are "most people" and was this statement ever discredited? I wouldn't expect "people closest to Damien (especially a mother or a father) to implicate him with a statement such as this but what do I know? And just because it only was witnessed by one person doesn't mean it didn't happen. 2 wks after the arrests seems like the normal time frame for someone to come forward with a story like this, IMHO.. it's not like it was 6 months or a year later? And I don't see what this person stood to gain by telling a lie about someone he knew who was under arrest for triple homicide. That's basically calling him a liar who wanted to help an "innocent" person go to jail for.. what exactly?

I can tell you with certainty that sometimes "people closest" to someone can help railroad them straight to death row with negative statements, including specifically, someone's mother. I know that it can happen because I have seen it myself in another case that I am very close to. In fact, she went so far as the solicit statements from her friends and "business partners" and when she could not get them to write them willingly, she crafted, and forged them herself. There are lots of people in the world who aren't the greatest parents and who are concerned with no one but themselves.

See Fraud re: Pre-Sentence Report, page 27 - 32
http://www.joegcampaign.org/JG Petition Supplement.pdf