Summary of Damien's Mental Health History

[UdbCrzy2]

There is something called a sociopathic or psychopathic triad. Don't believe me...look it up.
It has to do with predicting children/teens who may have this personality disorder. (most murderers have this disorder). This triad is: bedwetting, starting fires, and cruelty to animals. Like I said, don't believe me look it up. There is a BIG difference in treatable mental disorders and sociopathic/psychopathic personality disorders. The latter are not treatable with medication. Yes, prisons are full of people with these disorders...think Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson and on trial currently Martin MacNeill.

Jody Arias is one too.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Was there a police report for this. Serious question. I don't remember seeing it.

I'm surprised that you haven't seen it or been made aware of it before now. All three had a criminal past and were on probation.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

That is not what I meant. Can people with mental illness commit criminal acts? Sure, just like anyone else. Is someone more prone to committing criminal acts because they have mental illness? no, not necessarily.

This pointing at Damian's "mental illness" (which no one will name on this thread for some reason) as proof of his likelihood to have committed not only a crime but the crime of murdering 3 boys is a false premise. Just because Damian committed previous acts does not make him guilty of the one we are mostly discussing. A mental illness of course does not make him innocent of course but what I am seeing over and over again on numerous thread here is this mental illness of Damian Ehols being pointed at as if it is proof of him committing murder when it is not. Lets explore that even a bit more, the idea of a mentally ill Echols being capable of performing such a murder in such an organized way without mistake really argues against that premise.

Now, there are a number of things written in Damian's mental health records. They vary and are written in differing forms and can be attributed to different disorders or diagnoses. I'll ask again, what do those on this thread citing the significance of those records and forming that premise claim is Damian's diagnosis or diagnoses and how do they support the premise that it displays criminality and leads to the premise of him having killed these children simply cased on mental illness alone?

Hope this is worded properly as I'm falling asleep...

In my opinion the mental illness is not what convicted Echols, see the others were also convicted too. I was not present during the trial and I'm sure that anyone on this board posting about this was not either. When you are there in person, it really makes a difference seeing the testimony and if you are a juror you get to see the actual evidence which nobody but the jurors have seen in real life.

These are the facts:
All three had previous criminal records and no alibis. Echols was seen close to the scene by one of his relatives. This board is full of evidence that has been posted numerous times and I feel that re-posting is becoming very repetitive. Just check out some of the threads already discussed with links. You'll see that I've posted some of those links.

 

[Ina Cognito]

In my opinion the mental illness is not what convicted Echols, see the others were also convicted too. I was not present during the trial and I'm sure that anyone on this board posting about this was not either. When you are there in person, it really makes a difference seeing the testimony and if you are a juror you get to see the actual evidence which nobody but the jurors have seen in real life.

These are the facts:
All three had previous criminal records and no alibis. Echols was seen close to the scene by one of his relatives. This board is full of evidence that has been posted numerous times and I feel that re-posting is becoming very repetitive. Just check out some of the threads already discussed with links. You'll see that I've posted some of those links.

I said nothing about mental illness being what convicted Damian. I stated people in many posts point to his mental illness as some proof he was guilty or an "a-ha" of sorts. It speaks to other's understanding of mental illness or their impressions or biases about it.

Again, I don't want a link. I want you specifically, to tell me what you feel/understand Damian's mental illness to have been at that point in time. No doubt you will duck the question again because you cannot possibly still be not understanding what I am asking of you.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I'm going to guess you say everyday for dramatic effect so I won't hold you to it but can you show me 20 occasions (1 for each year since their arrest) in which a defendant was convicted, imprisoned and then the prosecution subsequently consents to a new trial being granted and then enters a plea that allows those defendants to walk free in a situation where there is a continued insistence by the prosecution that those defendants were guilty?

I understand what you're saying. Pleas are entered all the time at prior to trials. The situation involved here? Might be the only time I've seen it.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and google appeals or retrial. Yes, they do sometimes win an appeal for a new trial and they will plead guilty and walk out or have very little time left.

I gather you are asking me to do a whole bunch of research with links to such cases. You can do that yourself if you want to know more about that.


Here's one and there's more, but you should do that work.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...lde-lake-murder-plea-20130114,0,4825428.story


Here's another see just by using google.

http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2012/oct/04/brian-moore-pleads-guilty-before-retrial/

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I said nothing about mental illness being what convicted Damian. I stated people in many posts point to his mental illness as some proof he was guilty or an "a-ha" of sorts. It speaks to other's understanding of mental illness or their impressions or biases about it.

Again, I don't want a link. I want you specifically, to tell me what you feel/understand Damian's mental illness to have been at that point in time. No doubt you will duck the question again because you cannot possibly still be not understanding what I am asking of you.

BBM

Not because I'm ducking, but just because it's so repetitive.

 

[Cherry]

I know what a sociopath is and do not believe that Ehols is one at all.

We often agree. Echols was singled out strictly due to his appearance and at that time in the deep south; Goth was associated w Satanism in the same ways Black Sabbath and Ozzy were in the 70s. He was a likely target that stuck out like a sore thumb in that community. At That Particular Time.:seeya:

 

[sloane7777]

We often agree. Echols was singled out strictly due to his appearance and at that time in the deep south; Goth was associated w Satanism in the same ways Black Sabbath and Ozzy were in the 70s. He was a likely target that stuck out like a sore thumb in that community. At That Particular Time.:seeya:

That is Correct , My hubby and I were at mom in laws a few days after in WM just blocks away and all anyone could talk about were there were devil worshpers in town( who by the way looked just like all the goth kids up in Fayetteville) and Everyone we talked to (even Family) were convenced it "had " to be them because of the way they were dressed, I remember saying "NEVER NEVER MAKE ME MOVE TO THIS TOWN EVER!!!!!!!!!!

 

[UdbCrzy2]

We often agree. Echols was singled out strictly due to his appearance and at that time in the deep south; Goth was associated w Satanism in the same ways Black Sabbath and Ozzy were in the 70s. He was a likely target that stuck out like a sore thumb in that community. At That Particular Time.:seeya:

Killers comparable to the WM3 include: Natasha Cornett; Rod Ferrell; Christa Pike; Ricky Kasso; Sandy Charles; the Chicago Ripper Crew; Royce Casey, Jacob Delashmutt and Joseph Fiorella; Frans du Toit and Theuns Kruger; Jason Brumwell, Daniel Rabago, Johl Brock and Michael Hayward. You might want to use google to research more about them.

 

[Ina Cognito]

BBM

Not because I'm ducking, but just because it's so repetitive.

Well, if you would actually answer my question then I could stop asking the question. Makes sense right?

 

[sloane7777]

Killers comparable to the WM3 include: Natasha Cornett; Rod Ferrell; Christa Pike; Ricky Kasso; Sandy Charles; the Chicago Ripper Crew; Royce Casey, Jacob Delashmutt and Joseph Fiorella; Frans du Toit and Theuns Kruger; Jason Brumwell, Daniel Rabago, Johl Brock and Michael Hayward. You might want to use google to research more about them.

Thats just the point ! just because they were "Goth" and obvously rebelious. not much of a Family strutcure either, and they dressed and acted goth like the peeps above, yes they MUST be Murderers! small town mentallity got them convicted IMO

 

[NCSleuth]

It matters not who started the conversation. Bottom line, and it's not debatable, is that the prosecution would NEVER allow 3 individuals, who they were convinced were guilty AND for whom they already had convictions over and were sitting in jail, to go free. It doesn't matter who approached who, if they thought there was any evidence of guilt, they would NEVER allow them to walk free.

It happens all the time. People get new trials, they have already served a long time so they plead to something lesser to get out with time served. IIRC they served 17 years and are on 10 years probation.

It is unusual for a person on death row to get out, but for the other two it is not that uncommon.

do a good search killer release time served

you will be amazed.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Describes himself as a homicidal, suicidal, schizophrenic, manic depressive, sociopath. The handwriting is his own on this document. (which I do agree with)

http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/1/125.jpg


Please note that these documents were submitted by his own defense team and we only have what they have submitted.


If you want to do some reading go to Callahan and look at the exhibt 500 files. http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/exh500.html

Use the numbers below as your guide.

186-189 Admission Psychiatric Evaluation 6/2/92 - CHoLR
-suicidal ideation, "history of extreme physical aggression toward others"
-"Supposedly, Damien chased a younger child with an ax and attempted to set a house on fire. He denies this behavior."

190-191 History and Physical - CHoLR 6/2/92

192-198 Psychological Report 6/8/92 by Lewis Bracy

199-209 MMPI report 6/92

210-217 MAPI report 6/92
"characterized by impulsive hostility, an apprehensive mistrust of others and an edgy defensiveness against criticism. Fearing that others will dominate and possibly brutalize him, he puts forward a socially blunt and aggressive public posture. He fantasizes being all powerful so as to block others from possessing the means to be belittling and harmful. He believes that only alert vigilance and vigorous counter=action can prevent the malice of others. ... The desire to gain power and demean others springs from animosity and a wish to vindicate past grievances. Although frequently unsuccessful in these aims, this teenager believes that past degradations may be undone by provoking fear and intimidation in others."

218-229 Nursing Assessment 6/1/92

230-231 Adolescent Developmental History - CHoLR

232-238 Psychological Assessment - CHoLR 6/2/92
- "I have no feelings about suicide. I know that I can be reincarnated. I'm not afraid."
- burning himself with lighters
- Damien set fire to classroom twice; threatened to put "hexes" on teachers
- Sniffing air, cutting eyes, possibly responding to hallucinations
- During arrest, "Damien states that he was able to work his fingers loose, moved over and was able to slip the safety off of the police officer's gun which had been left in the police vehicle. Damien freely admitted that he had plans to shoot the girlfriend's father if he acted in an aggressive manner toward the girl."

239-240 Family questionnaire - CHoLR - Pam Echols

241-256 CHoLR forms

257-275 Treatment plan 6/92
- Trying to suck blood off peers who have scratched themselves.
- flat affect, sullen, withdrawn
- possibley responding to hallucinations

276-277 Nursing Discharge - CHoLR 6/25/92

278-288 Physician's Progress Notes (daily notes) 6/92
"his affect is inappropriate. He has trouble making eye contact. He is quite paranoid. He has been drawing symbols."

289-309 Physician's Progress Notes (diff handwriting) 6/92
- believes surveillance cameras behind his mirror and under his desk in his room, cautioned peers that staff are constantly watching them.
- Flat, monotone, glassy look. Continues to look away, may be responding to voices heard within.
- drawing witchcraft symbols, making cat purr noise
- Pam Echols concerned about son "not learning to deal w anger and rages", worried her son responding to outside stimulation. Voiced fear "son may be crazy."
- extremely flat affect mentioned repeatedly

310-312 Physician's Orders CHoLR

313-318 Routine Medication CHoLR

319-320 Therapeutic Leave notes CHoLR 6/19-21/92

321-339 CHoLR forms

=====
June CHoLR stay done // Sep stay begins
=====

340 Inquisitor Inc cover sheet

341-342 TRIMS Hospital Form 9/10/92
-Presenting problems: "Homicidal" and "Psychoses" checked off
-Notes: "??ed him down to the ground, sucked the blood from the arm, rubbed it over his face and body, and say he is a blood sucking vampire."
- "past 72 hours { says he is going to eat father and that he needs to be locked up or he will hurt someone. Also grabbed another person and tried to suck their blood.
- Jerry Driver listed as Referral

343 Info form

344 AK Dept of Human Services - Medicaid
-blood sucking & smearing, threatening to eat father

345 Adjudication Order - 9/14/92
- violation of probation by threatening the life of his mother and father and refusing to obey their lawful commands

346-348 Change in Custody Order 9/14/92
Damien custody transferred to Patricia Ann Liggett (aunt)

349-356 Admission forms for CHoLR 9/14/92

357-367 Assessment CHoLR 9/16/92
"Presently in detention in Jonesboro, picked up for violation of probation, threatened to slit parents' throat and eat them alive. Transferred to Crittenden, one of the kids at the detention hall cut his wrists, Damien grabbed his arm and began to the suck the blood, smeared it over his body and said he's a devil worshipping vampire. Says he's not a vampire but a witch. He is in isolation and suicide watch."
-Delusions: says he's going to be married in 3 days but doesn't know who he will
-Violence in family: was staying w Mom & Dad in Oregon; Dad threatened to hit him & he threatened to kill dad
-Inpatient history - St. Vincent Hospital in Oregon weekend of Aug 12, early Sept
-sexual history
-more on threats to slash both parents throats, eat them alive
-runaway incident: threats to kill officer, threat to kill gf dad
-"could be a danger to others"

368-371 Psych Eval 9/15/92

372-373 History and Physical 9/14/92

374-75 Psychosocial Assessment Update 9/15/92
- white witch, devil worshipping
- threats to kill police officer and girlfriend's father
- "Damien's behavoirs have become frightening to some of the community members in the Jonesboro area."
- in Oregon "at several times had threatened to kill his father"; "Damien returned to the home and made advances on the father. The father felt threatened and was concerned for his welfare as well as his wife's and other child in the home. Damien was moved to the detention center in the Oregon area. While in the detention center, Damien witnessed a co-patient slashing his wrist. Damien is reported to have knocked the co-patient to the ground and began to suck the young man's blood."
-"Damien has made several statements indicating that he has a desire to harm others. Primary targets of his aggression to include authority figures."
- During this assessment, Damien "readily answered questions concerning his religious beliefs and the fact that he believes that he is a vampire and does worship the devil. It was the social worker's opinion that Damien was not disclosing information for the purposes of schock, that he was simply disclosing what he currently is believing. ... However, his behaviors could best be described as odd and bizzare. Damien smiled at inappropriate times. He cut his eyes back and forth as if he was responding to external stimulation. He seemed to be giggling at something that he was saying or a private joke that was unknown to this social worker."

377-383 reprint of June assessment

384-402 medical, nutrition, educational, etc
-growling noises to scare the other students
-Objective = "patient will be able to distinguish reality as demonstrated by ability to appropriately respond to environment stimuli"

403-416 Treatment plan 9/92 various forms
412: "could be danger to others"

417-424 Physician's Progress Notes (9/15-9/28)

425-436 Progress Notes (9/15-9/28)
- stated he had attempted suicide before and 'was not worried about trying again because I know I can come back."
- peers complaining of Damien making growling sounds at them
- continuing to make bizarre sounds around peers; continuous talk of Satanism to peers
- continues laughing strangely and getting peers to feed into his satanism
-lots more references to flat affect, withdrawn, daydreaming & staring off

437 Physicians Orders
- "Axis I Psychotic Disorder NOS" ["Not Otherwise Specified"]

440-444 Routine Medication
- all five pages list "Diagnosis: Psychotic Disorder"

445-455 various CHoLR 9/92 forms
453: staff goodbye notes - "Let people like you for you!"

456-461 Discharge forms 9/28/92
457 blood sucking
During stay: "He did bite a male peer; however, this was in a fight type manner."
457-58 "At the time of discharge, it was felt that Damien's behavior had stabilized to the point to where he no longer needed to remain in an acute care setting. He was not considered a danger to others at the time of his discharge. ... Damien has contracted that he will not attempt to harm anyone after the time of discharge."

462-463 Inquisitor Inc forms

464 Craighead County Juvenile Detention Center report by Joyce Cureton
regarding Damien grabbing boy's arm and sucking blood. "The boys all stated he had been saying he had not taken his medication the night before, and he was about to 'go off on them'."He also told staff he had threatened to kill his father and eat him.

465 memorandum on home study

466-470 Intake Summary 8/17/92 Oregon
467: Jerry Driver's belief that "Damien and several others of his associates are involved in a satanic cult. / Damien and his girlfriend were planning to have a child, so that they could offer it as a sacrifice to Satan. / The authorities in Arkansas suspect that Damien's parents are involved in this satanic belief system."
469: "Damien denies any involvement in satanic cult or beliefs in Satanism. He expressed considerable displaeaure with Mr. Driver in making such assertions. Damien did acknowledge a suicide pact that he and his girlfriend has made"

471 Juvenile Compact Form (Oregon 8/13/92)

472 Referral Communicatin Log 9/14/92
Jerry Driver gives name of someone at Oregon hospital for consult

473-483 forms, info releases

484-85 Notebook pages, drawing and poems

486-487 personal written statement

488-493 questionaires from hospital w handwritten responses
-long term goal: "to own a new age shop"
-people i'd like to meet: Anton Levay, Stephen King

494-498 drawings, poems, stories

499-500 CHoLR questionaire 6/92

501-507 info requests, release forms

508-509 legal paperwork

 

[Ina Cognito]

UbD, never mind. Either you personally have no understanding or thought as to what his diagnoses was or you're playing games. It was a simple question to answer and if you don't want to answer it or don't know how to that's fine. I really am over it...

 

[UdbCrzy2]

UbD, never mind. Either you personally have no understanding or thought as to what his diagnoses was or you're playing games. It was a simple question to answer and if you don't want to answer it or don't know how to that's fine. I really am over it...

Sorry, I'm not a shrink. We only have mental health documents that were submitted by his defense team. If there is one that has a diagnosis on it that was submitted by anyone qualified, then please bring it forth. I don't have that document.


As far as the goth and satanic thing, if you look at my previous post you will see where this came from - him and his family. The truth is that his family was scared to death of him and for good cause.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Just one minor point of clarification. Damien, Jason and Jessie are not on probation. They do not have a probation officer. They do not have to periodically "check in" with someone in the ADC (although the ADC could check on them, if they wished, but since their lives are so "public" it's kind of unnecessary). They received a ten-year suspended imposition of sentence. That is not probation or parole. Additionally, as has been pointed out before, once those ten years are up, unless Arkansas is still in the Stone Age, the crime goes away - no record, etc. Now, if these three young men are truly the murderers some are professing they are, how can the State of Arkansas justify this situation? The simplest answer is often the truth. The State knows that Damien, Jason and Jessie are innocent and were extremely glad to accept Alford pleas that allowed them to save face and money in this case.

For further clarification:

Here is the Arkansas law discussing SIS. This site discusses sentencing in Arkansas. Finally, this site, which is general in nature but discusses Arkansas in particular, supports my statement that the conviction will be erased once the SIS term is over. It includes the following interesting information:

It's important to note that "suspended imposition of sentence" is a term used by some states -- Arkansas, Alaska, South Dakota and Missouri to name a few. Other states may have similar programs that attempt to reduce the impact of convictions on offenders' future economic fortunes. In many cases, these programs are available for drug offenders as "diversion" programs. In other states, these programs may be known as "set-asides." In states that do not have specific processes to set aside a conviction prior to completion of probation, convicts may seek a sealing order that closes a record to the public.

Although I could be wrong, the way I'm understand this information is that, after the SIS term is over, the conviction is wiped off - "set aside," if you will, and the former convict is free, totally and unconditionally.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Just one minor point of clarification. Damien, Jason and Jessie are not on probation. They do not have a probation officer. They do not have to periodically "check in" with someone in the ADC (although the ADC could check on them, if they wished, but since their lives are so "public" it's kind of unnecessary). They received a ten-year suspended imposition of sentence. That is not probation or parole. Additionally, as has been pointed out before, once those ten years are up, unless Arkansas is still in the Stone Age, the crime goes away - no record, etc. Now, if these three young men are truly the murderers some are professing they are, how can the State of Arkansas justify this situation? The simplest answer is often the truth. The State knows that Damien, Jason and Jessie are innocent and were extremely glad to accept Alford pleas that allowed them to save face and money in this case.

For further clarification:

Here is the Arkansas law discussing SIS. This site discusses sentencing in Arkansas. Finally, this site, which is general in nature but discusses Arkansas in particular, supports my statement that the conviction will be erased once the SIS term is over. It includes the following interesting information:

It's important to note that "suspended imposition of sentence" is a term used by some states -- Arkansas, Alaska, South Dakota and Missouri to name a few. Other states may have similar programs that attempt to reduce the impact of convictions on offenders' future economic fortunes. In many cases, these programs are available for drug offenders as "diversion" programs. In other states, these programs may be known as "set-asides." In states that do not have specific processes to set aside a conviction prior to completion of probation, convicts may seek a sealing order that closes a record to the public.

Although I could be wrong, the way I'm understand this information is that, after the SIS term is over, the conviction is wiped off - "set aside," if you will, and the former convict is free, totally and unconditionally.

:floorlaugh:

That's a pretty good story with a lot of fantasy. I don't think they are going to 'wipe off' a triple 1st degree murder conviction from someone's record. I know you are just wishful thinking and I don't know if it's possible, but that doesn't sound right to me. I got a kick out of that one.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

:floorlaugh:

That's a pretty good story with a lot of fantasy. I don't think they are going to 'wipe off' a triple 1st degree murder conviction from someone's record. I know you are just wishful thinking and I don't know if it's possible, but that doesn't sound right to me. I got a kick out of that one.

Read the Arkansas law. Read the links I provided. I'm glad that I was able to provide you with a laugh, but I doubt that you will be laughing when everything comes out. The convictions of Damien, Jason and Jessie will be overturned if everything comes out before the SIS is complete. If not, they will be free of all problems when the SIS is complete. That is a fact, and then I'll be the one laughing!

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Read the Arkansas law. Read the links I provided. I'm glad that I was able to provide you with a laugh, but I doubt that you will be laughing when everything comes out. The convictions of Damien, Jason and Jessie will be overturned if everything comes out before the SIS is complete. If not, they will be free of all problems when the SIS is complete. That is a fact, and then I'll be the one laughing!

I did read it and I didn't see where it said what you are claiming. The charges are very serious felony charges and it's not just murder, it's aggravated murder X3. I just don't want you to get your hopes up.

So far they haven't came through with their 'evidence that's going to prove we're innocent' and it's been awhile since they said that.

Just don't hold your breath. I know you have time invested in this - look at all of your posts and they have been only on this subject WM3. I know many of the supporters have been duped, they had a good campaign running with a bundle of cash behind it.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

The only people who are being duped are the nons! You'll see. There's more evidence out there that hasn't been made public - and it's pretty compelling! I can be patient, and I'll try not to say "I told you so" when it comes out.