Summary of Damien's Mental Health History

[PeteJ]

BTW antipsychiatry.org is hardly a reliable informant on the state of psychiatry or mental health. They talk about various job disciplines who report thousands of inappropriate admissions but they never mention who, where, when or how. Its easy to find hate mongering material on a variety of subjects, against a variety of persons but that doesn't make it true.

 

[SheBoss]

Where did you read this? Please cite a reference.

Here is the SWORN affidavit which describes very frightening things about Damien's behavior.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/gwoods.html

Damien Echol's medical records did not state that he was always passive, pleasant and didn't cause trouble. This was what Dr. Wood's recorded about Damien's behavior during his interview with Damien.

Sure! I'd be happy to. It's actually from the above link that you posted in your reply to me (right up here where I quoted you). I'll copy here to make it easier:

Charter Hospital, June 1 - 25, 1992

39. Mr. Echols was provisionally diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder, single episode and medicated with Imipramine, an anti depressant drug. Admission notes recorded that Mr. Echols was “a very confused child” who felt as if there was “no one he can trust.” The staff psychiatrist who conducted a mental status exam upon admission described the 17-year old as “cooperative and polite” with “an odd stare,” and flat affect.

41. Mr. Echols exhibited “a bizarre and unusual manner” of adjustment to the psychiatric unit that was also reflected in his “bizarre and unusual thinking pattern.” He was “preoccupied with witchcraft” but consistently denied any involvement with satanic worship. He was observed “meditating in his room in a bizarre and unusual fashion,” “wrote some very unusual poems,” and remained on “the peripheral of the group throughout” his hospitalization. He made unusual and bizarre sounds “with his mouth that sound[ed] like a cat purr.” He had “trouble making eye contact” and was “quite paranoid.” He told staff there were “survelance [sic] cameras behind his mirror and under his desk” and cautioned other adolescent patients that staff were “constantly watching them.” Staff observed him sitting and “rocking methodically back and forth,” daydreaming, and staring into space. When interrupted, he appeared startled. He wanted to “calm down” and said he “was feeling ‘jittery’ internally.” Hospital staff noted he showed “no aggressive behavior” in the hospital.

St. Vincent Hospital, Oregon, September 2 - 4, 1992

45. As had staff members at Charter Hospital, those at St. Vincent consistently described Mr. Echols as quiet, compliant and noncombative. The admitting diagnoses were psychotic disorder, not otherwise specified, dysthymia, depression, and suicidal ideation. However, within 48 hours these diagnoses were changed to adjustment disorder of adolescence with disturbance of conduct, whereupon Mr. Echols was discharged to his parents with instructions to continue taking daily doses of 150 mg. of Imipramine.

Charter Hospital, Little Rock, September 14 - 28, 1992

51. Like all other staff who observed Mr. Echols over time, he was described by Charter mental health staff as “calm,” “compliant and cooperative.” A psychiatrist noted that even though Mr. Echols had “difficulty with reality testing” he related in “a very quiet and withdrawn fashion” and “was actually quite pleasant.”

53. There is an abundance of evidence to show that Mr. Echols’ serious mental illness required long term hospitalization and more aggressive treatment than he received in prior hospitalizations. In January of 1993 Mr. Echols again sought help at East Arkansas Mental Health Center where mental health professionals described Mr. Echols’ elaborate history of delusions, psychosis, and severe problems with mood and memory. His delusions often were grandiose. He told staff he was “going to influence the world.” He also reported he obtained power by “drinking blood.” His mood oscillated between euphoria and severe depression. Most of the time his affect was flat and his face “expressionless.” Other times he reported he could “do anything.” During his worst periods Mr. Echols became psychotic. He felt a “spirit [was] living within him” that was “put inside him last year.” The spirit “decided to become part of him” and was the spirit of a woman who was killed by her husband. Despite his pronounced history of multiple forms of trauma, there is only one reference in the records about how traumatic experiences affected Mr. Echols. The symptoms associated with trauma are described as substantial periods of impaired memory consistent with “a dissociative response to trauma.” Though profoundly mental ill, Mr. Echols has always responded well to the structure of a therapeutic setting. He has never been a management problem and staff members uniformly describe him as passive, compliant and likeable.

I honestly don't see where he "recorded about Damien's behavior during his interview with Damien" as you say. This looks to me like he has interviewed the staff members of the hospitals who told him this. If you see something different, please let me know. But it looks to me like while disturbed, all the hospitals described him as not much of a problem.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Sure! I'd be happy to. It's actually from the above link that you posted in your reply to me (right up here where I quoted you). I'll copy here to make it easier:

Charter Hospital, June 1 - 25, 1992


I honestly don't see where he "recorded about Damien's behavior during his interview with Damien" as you say. This looks to me like he has interviewed the staff members of the hospitals who told him this. If you see something different, please let me know. But it looks to me like while disturbed, all the hospitals described him as not much of a problem.

Respectfully snipped for space...

Good stuff! I saw this one that I had posted on another thread:

"He's alert and cooperative, he seems friendly."

http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/051.jpg

 

[Mountain_Kat]

...speaking of jivepuppi maybe Damien's demons need to be reviewed....
even though like Cappuccino said it doesn't matter how insane Damien was if there is NO evidence that he was anywhere near the boys May 5th,1993....
....still an interesting read though IMO

http://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_2.html

<snip>

Echols seemed to believe there were more charges than this, telling his psychiatrist he was also charged with disorderly conduct and terroristic threatening, charges which he denied. Although not charged with making threats, he described his thoughts to his therapist


. . . while he was waiting in the police car to be taken to juvenile detention or jail following having been arrested, that he witnessed his girlfriend's father coming toward her as she waited with police offers in an aggressive manner. Damien states that he was able to work his fingers loose, moved over and was able to slip the safety off of the police officer's gun which had been left in the police vehicle. Damien freely admitted he had plans to shoot the girlfriend's father if he acted in an aggressive manner toward the girl. (p. 383, Exhibit 500. Page references below are also Exhibit 500 unless otherwise noted.)

</snip>

Okay...police officer for some reason leaves his gun in a patrol car with a transport IN the vehicle. And Damien is Harry Houdini.

Nope, this wasn't a kid who told tales and/or embellished the truth. Not at all.

And he drank blood too...honest. :giggle:

 

[*~Aimee~*]

I never said anything about any other profession. I have much respect for teachers and feel that they are not paid enough for their very difficult job.
Still the psychiatric professional job (RN, psychiatrist etc) is different than yours in that they are under constant observation by many, many government entities..Board of Nursing or Medical Board,CMS, etc as well as peers who would report unethical behavior in a heartbeat. CMS does routine chart and records audits. Yes there are nurses or psychiatrists who do things that are unethical, however, it usually doesn't have anything to do with falsely imprisoning patients. There are so many patients who present themselves for admission that are very sick but still get turned away because the criteria for admission is so strict. Check it out for yourself, call a medical board and ask how many complaints they get against psychiatrists for falsely imprisoning patients and after investigation was the complaint valid? Every state has a medical board. Because ultimately, falsely imprisoning a patient falls on the psychiatrist who accepted the admission.

In case you don't know it, teachers are professionals, too. We have to have at least a Bachelor's degree, and we have to constantly update our training. If we do something unethical or illegal, we risk losing our certification, which means losing our livelihood - for life! Yet, teachers on occasion do unethical and illegal things. You can only speak for yourself and what you know. I've never personally known a teacher who did something unethical or illegal, but I would never presume to speak for the entire profession. You seem to think that, because you know of no one in the mental health profession who has falsified a statement to get a patient admitted, for whatever reason, that such things don't happen. Evidence to refute your position has previously been posted.

I am a RN and I agree - all profesions around children/pysch pt are needed. I would never say anyone is more important than the other. Teachers are just like nurses in that they are required to report anything to the proper athorities. If they do not then they are in trouble. I am thankful for all professions esp if they do their job correctly.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

<snip>

Echols seemed to believe there were more charges than this, telling his psychiatrist he was also charged with disorderly conduct and terroristic threatening, charges which he denied. Although not charged with making threats, he described his thoughts to his therapist


. . . while he was waiting in the police car to be taken to juvenile detention or jail following having been arrested, that he witnessed his girlfriend's father coming toward her as she waited with police offers in an aggressive manner. Damien states that he was able to work his fingers loose, moved over and was able to slip the safety off of the police officer's gun which had been left in the police vehicle. Damien freely admitted he had plans to shoot the girlfriend's father if he acted in an aggressive manner toward the girl. (p. 383, Exhibit 500. Page references below are also Exhibit 500 unless otherwise noted.)

</snip>

Okay...police officer for some reason leaves his gun in a patrol car with a transport IN the vehicle. And Damien is Harry Houdini.

Nope, this wasn't a kid who told tales and/or embellished the truth. Not at all.

And he drank blood too...honest. :giggle:

"He seemed to enjoy people being concerned about him"

http://callahan.8k.com/cgi-bin/i/images/500/061.jpg

Imagine that...

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I guess there's a lot of positive information about Damien in the psych info, too. Maybe he was misdiagnosed? Maybe he was intelligent enough to fake symptoms and make outrageous statements to support the faked symptoms? Before you discount this notion, I refer you to the Rosenhan experiment. Look it up. It's highly enlightening.

 

[claudicici]

BTW antipsychiatry.org is hardly a reliable informant on the state of psychiatry or mental health. They talk about various job disciplines who report thousands of inappropriate admissions but they never mention who, where, when or how. Its easy to find hate mongering material on a variety of subjects, against a variety of persons but that doesn't make it true.

The article was based on a hearing U.S. Representative Patricia Schroeder of Colorado held in 1992.She had a committee that investigated the practices of psychiatric hospitals in the United States. That is how she summarized her committee's findings.
....among many other sources that are clearly listed

 

[claudicici]

I guess there's a lot of positive information about Damien in the psych info, too. Maybe he was misdiagnosed? Maybe he was intelligent enough to fake symptoms and make outrageous statements to support the faked symptoms? Before you discount this notion, I refer you to the Rosenhan experiment. Look it up. It's highly enlightening.

That's an awesome example.Not one of the professionals noticed.
I completely respect Psychiatry and its services.I think it is incredible how far it has come and how people that need it can be treated.
But I think its ridiculous to claim that this is the only profession where no mistakes are made.
I think we probably all have at least one example in our own families where someone was misdiagnosed or received prescriptions they did not need.
I have quite a few examples.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't think Echols "faked" illness. I think, rather, that he was simply a very bright, very troubled kid who created a persona for himself out of neccesity and was too young to understand that there might be repercussions that sprang from that. What I do find surprising is that very few adults seemed to have ever questioned anything Echols said. On the other hand, I live in a small rural town the heart of Appallachia, so in some ways, that really doesn't surprise me at all. Just last week, a friend who is the president of a local company (so certainly not a stupid man), told me that if you go outside in the dark with a flashlight, turn the flashlight on and put the butt end on your forehead with the light shining out in the darkness, you can see millions of spider eyes shining in the trees. I laughed and asked him if that made any sense to him. His response? "I don't know if it makes sense, but tonight I'm going to try it." When I saw him a few days later, I asked him how his "spider eyes experiment" went, and do you know that he was actually surprised that he saw nothing. LOL. Critical thinking is not exactly something that is prized and cultivated here.

 

[SheBoss]

What I was trying to show (and I still believe this), is that while Damien was/is deeply troubled, he sounds more to me like a kid who like to "show out" and talk big talk. I feel like he was a bs artist (I know many of these, it's hardly worth calling them out as it won't change anything) and did lots of things for show. I see plenty of examples where he threatened to hurt people, but I don't find anywhere that he actually did it. Yes, maybe he drank the blood of a kid who cut his arm, but did he hurt him? Nope. He filed his nails to sharp points, but did he scratch anyone's eyes out? No.

Again, all I see is proof of a disturbed kid who like to talk big and tell stories. If anything, this makes me think that maybe he did tell people he killed those kids, but it was another one of his stories of grandeur. Hopefully, he learned his lesson after 18 years in prison.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I think it's safe to assume that he "learned his lesson" after 18 years on Death Row, ten in solitary confinement. Most teenagers act out. Fortunately for the large majority, they don't live in a city like West Memphis, Arkansas, where you can be jailed for acting out, sometimes put on Death Row!

 

[Pensfan]

Sure! I'd be happy to. It's actually from the above link that you posted in your reply to me (right up here where I quoted you). I'll copy here to make it easier:

Charter Hospital, June 1 - 25, 1992

39. Mr. Echols was provisionally diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder, single episode and medicated with Imipramine, an anti depressant drug. Admission notes recorded that Mr. Echols was &#8220;a very confused child&#8221; who felt as if there was &#8220;no one he can trust.&#8221; The staff psychiatrist who conducted a mental status exam upon admission described the 17-year old as &#8220;cooperative and polite&#8221; with &#8220;an odd stare,&#8221; and flat affect.

41. Mr. Echols exhibited &#8220;a bizarre and unusual manner&#8221; of adjustment to the psychiatric unit that was also reflected in his &#8220;bizarre and unusual thinking pattern.&#8221; He was &#8220;preoccupied with witchcraft&#8221; but consistently denied any involvement with satanic worship. He was observed &#8220;meditating in his room in a bizarre and unusual fashion,&#8221; &#8220;wrote some very unusual poems,&#8221; and remained on &#8220;the peripheral of the group throughout&#8221; his hospitalization. He made unusual and bizarre sounds &#8220;with his mouth that sound[ed] like a cat purr.&#8221; He had &#8220;trouble making eye contact&#8221; and was &#8220;quite paranoid.&#8221; He told staff there were &#8220;survelance [sic] cameras behind his mirror and under his desk&#8221; and cautioned other adolescent patients that staff were &#8220;constantly watching them.&#8221; Staff observed him sitting and &#8220;rocking methodically back and forth,&#8221; daydreaming, and staring into space. When interrupted, he appeared startled. He wanted to &#8220;calm down&#8221; and said he &#8220;was feeling &#8216;jittery&#8217; internally.&#8221; Hospital staff noted he showed &#8220;no aggressive behavior&#8221; in the hospital.

St. Vincent Hospital, Oregon, September 2 - 4, 1992

45. As had staff members at Charter Hospital, those at St. Vincent consistently described Mr. Echols as quiet, compliant and noncombative. The admitting diagnoses were psychotic disorder, not otherwise specified, dysthymia, depression, and suicidal ideation. However, within 48 hours these diagnoses were changed to adjustment disorder of adolescence with disturbance of conduct, whereupon Mr. Echols was discharged to his parents with instructions to continue taking daily doses of 150 mg. of Imipramine.

Charter Hospital, Little Rock, September 14 - 28, 1992

51. Like all other staff who observed Mr. Echols over time, he was described by Charter mental health staff as &#8220;calm,&#8221; &#8220;compliant and cooperative.&#8221; A psychiatrist noted that even though Mr. Echols had &#8220;difficulty with reality testing&#8221; he related in &#8220;a very quiet and withdrawn fashion&#8221; and &#8220;was actually quite pleasant.&#8221;

53. There is an abundance of evidence to show that Mr. Echols&#8217; serious mental illness required long term hospitalization and more aggressive treatment than he received in prior hospitalizations. In January of 1993 Mr. Echols again sought help at East Arkansas Mental Health Center where mental health professionals described Mr. Echols&#8217; elaborate history of delusions, psychosis, and severe problems with mood and memory. His delusions often were grandiose. He told staff he was &#8220;going to influence the world.&#8221; He also reported he obtained power by &#8220;drinking blood.&#8221; His mood oscillated between euphoria and severe depression. Most of the time his affect was flat and his face &#8220;expressionless.&#8221; Other times he reported he could &#8220;do anything.&#8221; During his worst periods Mr. Echols became psychotic. He felt a &#8220;spirit [was] living within him&#8221; that was &#8220;put inside him last year.&#8221; The spirit &#8220;decided to become part of him&#8221; and was the spirit of a woman who was killed by her husband. Despite his pronounced history of multiple forms of trauma, there is only one reference in the records about how traumatic experiences affected Mr. Echols. The symptoms associated with trauma are described as substantial periods of impaired memory consistent with &#8220;a dissociative response to trauma.&#8221; Though profoundly mental ill, Mr. Echols has always responded well to the structure of a therapeutic setting. He has never been a management problem and staff members uniformly describe him as passive, compliant and likeable.

I honestly don't see where he "recorded about Damien's behavior during his interview with Damien" as you say. This looks to me like he has interviewed the staff members of the hospitals who told him this. If you see something different, please let me know. But it looks to me like while disturbed, all the hospitals described him as not much of a problem.

Weird Eddie" Gein was considered by many at the psychiatric hospital to be a model patient, mild mannered, and always helpful.
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial killers/Gein, Ed.pdf

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Weird Eddie" Gein was considered by many at the psychiatric hospital to be a model patient, mild mannered, and always helpful.
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial killers/Gein, Ed.pdf

Is there any records anywhere of his behavior near the times of the crimes? The only place where I can see that this behavior was exhibited was after becoming senile and after a long bout with cancer, which was dated some 40 years after the start of his killing.

It also said: "The psychologist and psychiatrist who interview Ed asserted that
he was schizophrenic and a &#8220;sexual psychopath.&#8221; and that Ed was insane and should be permanently committed to the hospital.

If Damien were so crazy, why did they keep sending him home? Why wouldn't he be kept? If he was hospitalized 3 times in the year before the murders, maybe the mental health professionals should take some responsibility for letting him go repeatedly when he and his mother were at least trying to get him some help. What was Damien officially diagnosed with anyway? I am only about 100 pages in to the 500. They are difficult for me to read.

ETA: Not being snarky. Sincerely asking, as I am not a mental health professional and I have no idea why they would continue to release someone who is such an apparent danger to himself and others, according to your opinion as a mental health professional.

 

[askfornina]

What I was trying to show (and I still believe this), is that while Damien was/is deeply troubled, he sounds more to me like a kid who like to "show out" and talk big talk. I feel like he was a bs artist (I know many of these, it's hardly worth calling them out as it won't change anything) and did lots of things for show. I see plenty of examples where he threatened to hurt people, but I don't find anywhere that he actually did it. Yes, maybe he drank the blood of a kid who cut his arm, but did he hurt him? Nope. He filed his nails to sharp points, but did he scratch anyone's eyes out? No.

Again, all I see is proof of a disturbed kid who like to talk big and tell stories. If anything, this makes me think that maybe he did tell people he killed those kids, but it was another one of his stories of grandeur. Hopefully, he learned his lesson after 18 years in prison.

i can't comment on Damien specifically because i have not read enough, but as a teenager i can say i know many kids like this.. i was one in my early teenage years to some extent. it's all about shock value. making people believe you are "crazy" or "weird" for attention.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

i can't comment on Damien specifically because i have not read enough, but as a teenager i can say i know many kids like this.. i was one in my early teenage years to some extent. it's all about shock value. making people believe you are "crazy" or "weird" for attention.

Although I don't think that I personally was that way, I know that I saw hundreds of students who said and did things for shock value during my teaching career. It seems to be indicative of being a teenager, especially a poor teenager. Sometimes the "acting out" was merely for attention, and sometimes, unfortunately, it was for money from the state.

(For anyone who doesn't know, Section 501 of the Americans with Disabilities Act [ADA] allows the government to pay money to those with proven mental disabilities. Social Security Disability Insurance has a similar provision, but it's much harder to get. The 501 money could be granted if the student exhibited bizarre behavior at school. It was often joked about in educational circles and called their "crazy check." It wasn't really funny, but there was nothing educational professionals could do about it. If a social worker or some mental health professional was willing to note that a student had "mental health issues" or was "emotionally disturbed" [what teenager isn't?], then they were entitled to 501 relief. Sad, I know, but that's what's going on right now in education, and not because the educational professionals want it that way but because education is being used by some governmental agencies as a way to give additional financial assistance to needy families, that is in addition to the regular aid to dependent children and food stamps.)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

i can't comment on Damien specifically because i have not read enough, but as a teenager i can say i know many kids like this.. i was one in my early teenage years to some extent. it's all about shock value. making people believe you are "crazy" or "weird" for attention.

For me it was a conbination of several things...a means of not being invisible in a neglectful environment (mother), a way of fighting back in a violent environment (father), and a way of being something special and powerful in the eyes of my peers. I was a troubled kid, no doubt about that, but I also embellished and lied if it suited my needs. And I took GREAT satisfaction in the fact that no-one, parents, counselors or peers, really knew anything true about me unless I wanted them to know it. In my eyes, that gave me control in a world which, before, I had always been completely helpless and powerless. Was I crazy? Absolutely not. If you believed every single thing I told you would you have thought I might have been crazy, even dangerous? You bet.

 

[SheBoss]

Weird Eddie" Gein was considered by many at the psychiatric hospital to be a model patient, mild mannered, and always helpful.
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial killers/Gein, Ed.pdf

Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, I'm not really concerned with Ed Gein's mental health records. Just Damien's and the rest of the WM3. I would think comparing Damien and Ed Gein would be a type of stereotyping and I try to avoid that. Thanks Again!

 

[claudicici]

"Ed witnesses his parents slaughter a hog in the shed behind the
family store. Ed experienced an ejaculation upon viewing this. "
Thanks Pensfan,I'm sure after reading this you must be on board suspecting TH since he has witnessed many hog slaughters and has done so himself....

 

[PeteJ]

The article was based on a hearing U.S. Representative Patricia Schroeder of Colorado held in 1992.She had a committee that investigated the practices of psychiatric hospitals in the United States. That is how she summarized her committee's findings.
....among many other sources that are clearly listed

I respect your opinion, but no one mentions that a particular MD or hospital does ?????you know why? Its illegal to accuse a person who earns his living by a particular profession of doing illegal activities..actually it is something one can sue for, to the accusing individual. That is whether that person is a teacher or a mental health professional. I would never accuse a profession of anything, because I don't know it if I didn't see it.