Support Thread: Jurors

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Thank you everyone for posting all of your thoughts. I am also grateful for this thread. <modsnip> that I got carried away with my own responses -- and found myself on a 24 TO (which I am totally okay with!!!). It helped me cool down and I am able to debate now again without making things personal. Cheers to all.

<modsnip>
I need to reiterate my respect and my thanks to these people. I hope their lives aren't negatively impacted forever simply because they did their duty the way they, and I, understood it.

I'd also like to thank the posters here - it's good to know the whole world hasn't gone nuts.
 
I become distressed every time I read a post or hear someone on TV hurling insults at the jurors on this trial. After witnessing this lynch mob mentality, how many among us are making a mental note to themselves to avoid ever serving on a jury lest they meet the same fate? No one on a jury should ever feel that they must deliver a certain verdict in order to satisfy public opinion, nor should a citizen be concerned that they might be subject to harassment & death threats or bodily harm as a result of their jury service. I thank every last one of these jurors/alternates who gave up nearly 2 months of time with their friends & loved ones in order to serve, and I trust that they took their duties very seriously.
 
I become distressed every time I read a post or hear someone on TV hurling insults at the jurors on this trial. After witnessing this lynch mob mentality, how many among us are making a mental note to themselves to avoid ever serving on a jury lest they meet the same fate? No one on a jury should ever feel that they must deliver a certain verdict in order to satisfy public opinion, nor should a citizen be concerned that they might be subject to harassment & death threats or bodily harm as a result of their jury service. I thank every last one of these jurors/alternates who gave up nearly 2 months of time with their friends & loved ones in order to serve, and I trust that they took their duties very seriously.

This x a million!

I mentioned this last week but could this have possible legal complications in the future?

If I were called for a high profile case I would certainly look at this trial. Jurors CAN NOT worry that serving will put their lives or their families in danger or that the VERDICT they come to could result in this. This isn't just wrong but I think this could reach further then you realize. Could an appeal from the defense on some future case with high profile conviction not claim, well, the jury was scared they would come to harm if they acquitted. Just look at the Casey Anthony jury.
I can see Mark Geragos rubbing his hands in glee. I'll ask this is in the legal thread as I am wondering if this could have bad fall out,

This verdict wasn't justice for Caylee. Attacking the players for doing their job isn't just. How is the simmering rage and possible lynch mob doing right for that little girl.

I do wonder if it is okay the Scott Perterson jury wrote aductio book since tabhey came up with the "right" verdict. Just from the reviews, that was an interesting deliberation. I'm ordering a used copy of the book as parts sound very familiar and I think a comparison between the juries is appropriate.

Anyway thanks all again. Will look into seeing if we can have a media discussion thread. It really is wrong when child abductions and murder is entertainment:banghead:
 
It's sad when our own media distorts factual information or outright lies which I've noticed in some of the media reports on the jury.

The new meme is that the jury never took notes. That is FALSE.

For five weeks we heard the talking heads commenting on all the jury note taking and that they took more notes for the prosecution (except juror #4). People in the courtroom tweeted constantly about jurors taking notes during the prosecution case, yet now, it's been decided by the same media who reported all the copious note taking (that's right, I mean you, Jean Caseras!) that the jurors 'never took notes' or didn't take notes. Huh, I spent weeks reading about their diligence to their job as jurors and how they were so involved including all their notebooks (the foreman stated that he wrote 400 pages of notes during the trial) and now we're being fed a different story.

I'm not saddened by our jury system. I'm saddened, disappointed and flabbergasted by the outright untruths spread by the media in hopes of I'm not sure what? More mob frenzy?

I hope the jury has thick skin. I also want them to know that many of us were paying attention when pundits and tweeters spoke of the jury solemnity, seriousness and engagement in the court process. The current untruths and actual slander spoken as to their behavior in court speaks to something rotten, not in our jury system but in how supposed 'reporters' treat 'the truth'.
 
BTW, just wanted to bring a reminder that on July 5 one of the commentators on In Session stated that they thought juror #11 was a good candidate for foreman. That commentator said that if it was him 'deliberations will be quicker and pretty efficient.'

We now learn that Juror 11 was the foreman. So why are there complaints that the deliberations were 'quick' when it was stated that they would be quick with him on board since he was efficient, organized and involved?

Interesting that the qualities that was percieved to be a positive prior to the outcome has now become a negative with the same commentators.

Things which we should all remember when we think of this jury.
 
I've read the "We, The Jury" book by the Scott Peterson jury. It is well worth reading.
 
While I don't agree with their decision, I really think it's tragic that these jurors have to fear for their safety and that they will never feel comfortable sitting on a jury again. I have never been summoned for jury duty. I have no idea why since about everyone else I know has been. I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for these people to be forced away from their families and forced to view and hear horrible things.

It was like they were in jail themselves. And I wonder if that made them psychologically identify with KC.
 
I am concerned greatly at your inability to allow an intelligent debate.
Our system is public so we can learn from mistakes and from good deeds.
In college they teach in logic class and interpersonal communications that failure to listen to constructive criticism is a sign of immaturity, defensiveness, and the obvious to only want to hear from like minded individuals. If you value the jurors and their verdict why the need to not hear all opinions, provided they are respectful in nature? I'm not one to ever personally attack. I am surprised that to value and support one group and exclude another can ve a recipe for disaster. Communication is the solution. Learning is too.
Most respectfully
Oh for the love of Pete.
This is a support thread for the jury. There are support threads for JA,LDB,GA,CA,LA,and Tim Miller off the top of my head and bashing of those people on those particular threads is not allowed and off topic. The entire forum is peppered with discussion about the pros and cons of the jurors verdict and their quality of duty. Every possible position is being discussed,debated and analyzed.To insinuate that we are shutting down opinions on this topic by limiting discussion on THIS thread is an unreasonable conclusion at best.

So, the instructions are simple. 48 hour TO's per Salem for anyone that posts a non support post on this thread. She has given ample warnings, been patient and given leeway, until the final warning and TO's have been given.


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Sorry to come off so harsh but this is really craziness,imo.
 
I have a couple of things to add.
First of all, they were worked over by professional spin doctors. I am always amazed how even pretty intelligent people can fall for professional scam artists. Near the end of the trial, they were mentally tired and their working days were sometimes too long IMO which could have effected their attention span/decision making.
I do not think they had personal enrichment in mind during the trial.
These were not wealthy folks and probably live from paycheck to paycheck. Wealthy folks get out of jury duty. Most folks under those economic conditions will not turn down easy money for just a simple interview when approached by the media.
They were average folks who probably for the first in their life were made to feel like VIP's which could have had a psychological impact on them. The interviews continued that VIP feeling. I did not like the verdict but I accept it, however did not respect it due to multiple reasons, not restricted to the jurors only.
There has been no evidence to date of any jury misconduct.
I find it incredible sad and very troublesome that the jurors are now afraid of any vigilante actions. They did not commit any crime, they only made an unpopular decision.
They were not running in a popularity contest.
And I worry that in future similar cases, a jury could feel compelled to find a defendant guilty/not guilty because of possible public backlash/vilifying. That would be the real tragedy.
 
These guys deserve a bump.

BTW, Ohio church has a mock retrial and their verdict is...hung jury http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/07/18/cleveland-church-holds-mock-retrial-of-casey-anthony/ No, no idea how staged it was to teach a parable but I would imagine that was the case. Just kept seeing the story pop up all over.

I might add that the jury is rather quiet for people just cashing in. We have heard from Juror 2, #3, #12 and #11 the foreperson. Plus the one alternate who did all the day of the verdict press. #6 was shopping for a payday but as far as I know, didn't get it.

I miss anyone? That's 3 out of out 8 or 4 out of 16 depending how you want to count
 
Another excellent point of view!

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/62925

I have served on two juries, a case of second-degree murder and one of involuntary manslaughter. In the second-degree murder case, my fellow jurors and I found the man not guilty. My gut instinct was that the defendant, a cuckold with a violent temper and a sneering persona, was guilty, but the prosecutor did not prove his case "beyond a reasonable doubt." The manslaughter case ended with a guilty verdict because the prosecution was flawless.
 
I've been seeing and hearing so many opinions about what constitutes reasonable doubt. In listening to the jurors who have spoken, I think they did have reasonable doubt, at least in their own minds. If I doubt someone did something, and it hasn't been proven to me that they did it, then that is reasonable doubt. If someone is charged with a crime, then I have to have definitive proof that they did the crime, or that it could not have happened any other way, before I can say someone is guilty.

The jurors didn't follow the case for 3 years or have the Casey-is-guilty theme drilled into them all this time by the likes of Nancy Grace, so all they saw was what was presented in the trial. What they saw was the defense poking holes in the state's case, and the prosecution not proving that it was Casey and ONLY Casey who could have done this, or that it was premeditated murder rather than an accident.

I don't think they bought into the drowning theory, but they didn't buy the prosecution's theory that she killed Caylee so she could party, either. In short, they did not have enough evidence to say Casey was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There was doubt, and it was reasonable, to them.

I also see and hear a lot of talk about them not looking at the evidence or not asking questions or reading testimony during deliberations. If your mind is made up by the time the closing arguments are done, you don't need to do any of that. I'm sure their memory of who said what is pretty clear.

And, one last thought.... if I had not followed this case at all, and I had heard the defense's theory that George had disposed of the body to protect Casey, and hearing that he drove that car home and did not report it to LE about the smell of decomp, and if I sat there and watched him be belligerent and angry towards the defense attorney, and believed that he was lying about the affair, and had such selective memory... I would have definitely started having suspicions about him myself. I would wonder why he sat on the stand and said he put 2 and 2 together and came up with 4, that his daughter was the last one to see his granddaughter alive and that he now believes she killed her daughter. My mouth would have been hanging open by then, because I cannot believe a father would say something like that on the witness stand about his own daughter. My own dad would have just chosen to say nothing. He would never tell the world his child was a killer, even if he believed it.

FWIW, I think these jurors were given an extremely difficult task and it's my opinion that they did the best they could. I feel terrible that they have been villified by the public and even the media. I feel terrible that they are called horrible names and threatened to the point of fearing for their safety, and I hope that people will try to be more understanding towards them. This is not the first time a person has been acquitted when the world believed them to be guilty. Innocent people have been convicted as well, so Justice is not always fair. We can't change the system, so we have to accept it as it is. I support their decision, even if I can't 100% agree with it.
 
My prayers are with the jurors. I guess it is just great that the SP jurors can cash in on a book because of their service and still make appearances. Oh the hypocrisy is rich. jmo
 
I know we are few and far between in our support of the jury, but I wanted to post this very lovely article of support. Cheers!

http://www.cleveland.com/brett/blog/index.ssf/2011/07/jurors_should_be_commended_not.html

Nice article. :)

There are still quite a few people that are angry at the jury, but there has been a lot of cooling down. I would hope that the immediate danger for these jurors has passed. The emotions the day of the verdict were extremely high, but most of those who were outraged have calmed down. Not that there isn't still a lot of anger and bewilderment over the verdict, its just now that people have had time to calm down they are being more rational. Most of the danger from the angry fringe is now directed at KC, and will be for quite some time.

If more jurors speak out, it may cause a few flare ups, but most people have now accepted the verdict as what is done is done, and double jeopardy will not allow this to be retried. These jurors have been caught in a very unfair catch 22 situation. Regardless of what they say, those who don't understand the verdict and strongly disagree with it, will never understand how the jury reached that verdict. I would like to hear more from the other jurors, because I'm nosy LOL, but I almost hope they don't speak out anymore, because nothing they say will put them in a good light with those who don't understand the verdict.

I do hope these jurors will soon be able to live in peace, and go on with their lives. They did their duty, and they deserve to be safe and left alone.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
 
Opinion article from a very successful and highly respected attorney:

http://www.kansas.com/2011/07/14/1932818/casey-anthony-verdict-affirmed.html

"There was a time when the journalism profession was honorable. But the rush to tell the story first and the desire to heighten ratings on electronic media have changed that. Talking heads have replaced thinking, ethical reporters of news on some networks.
Our system is based on a presumption of innocence and the government bearing the burden of proving what it charges. The standard of proof is based not on suspicion of guilt but on proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The talking heads would substitute a system of polling the public &#8212; but only after constantly informing us what a bad person Anthony is.

The jury heard the evidence and considered the law as given by the trial judge. The verdict was not that Casey was innocent of anything. The verdict was "not guilty" &#8212; which translates to "the government failed to prove her guilty under the law and the evidence presented."
I don't know about the rest of the American people, but I want to enjoy the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution and not have to worry about the opinion of the uninformed.




much more in full article
 
Consider the fact if we had a guilty verdict there would be a strong likelyhood or at least grounds for it to be tossed or appealed based the info about the internet searches. I am glad the jurors gave that as much weight as it deserved, (answer, very little)

I definitely get aggravated by the not guilty = innocent. Like DCS being asked if she would let Casey nanny her kids.

The general tone has calmed and vitrol is mostly focused on Casey right now and playing Where In The World is Casey Anthony.
 
I've been seeing and hearing so many opinions about what constitutes reasonable doubt. In listening to the jurors who have spoken, I think they did have reasonable doubt, at least in their own minds. If I doubt someone did something, and it hasn't been proven to me that they did it, then that is reasonable doubt. If someone is charged with a crime, then I have to have definitive proof that they did the crime, or that it could not have happened any other way, before I can say someone is guilty.

The jurors didn't follow the case for 3 years or have the Casey-is-guilty theme drilled into them all this time by the likes of Nancy Grace, so all they saw was what was presented in the trial. What they saw was the defense poking holes in the state's case, and the prosecution not proving that it was Casey and ONLY Casey who could have done this, or that it was premeditated murder rather than an accident.

I don't think they bought into the drowning theory, but they didn't buy the prosecution's theory that she killed Caylee so she could party, either. In short, they did not have enough evidence to say Casey was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There was doubt, and it was reasonable, to them.

I also see and hear a lot of talk about them not looking at the evidence or not asking questions or reading testimony during deliberations. If your mind is made up by the time the closing arguments are done, you don't need to do any of that. I'm sure their memory of who said what is pretty clear.

And, one last thought.... if I had not followed this case at all, and I had heard the defense's theory that George had disposed of the body to protect Casey, and hearing that he drove that car home and did not report it to LE about the smell of decomp, and if I sat there and watched him be belligerent and angry towards the defense attorney, and believed that he was lying about the affair, and had such selective memory... I would have definitely started having suspicions about him myself. I would wonder why he sat on the stand and said he put 2 and 2 together and came up with 4, that his daughter was the last one to see his granddaughter alive and that he now believes she killed her daughter. My mouth would have been hanging open by then, because I cannot believe a father would say something like that on the witness stand about his own daughter. My own dad would have just chosen to say nothing. He would never tell the world his child was a killer, even if he believed it.

FWIW, I think these jurors were given an extremely difficult task and it's my opinion that they did the best they could. I feel terrible that they have been villified by the public and even the media. I feel terrible that they are called horrible names and threatened to the point of fearing for their safety, and I hope that people will try to be more understanding towards them. This is not the first time a person has been acquitted when the world believed them to be guilty. Innocent people have been convicted as well, so Justice is not always fair. We can't change the system, so we have to accept it as it is. I support their decision, even if I can't 100% agree with it.

Has it occurred to you that George, unlike Cindy, has enough personal integrity that he could respect the oath that he took to tell the truth on the stand, and that his desire to stand by and support his daughter at all costs is trumped by his belief that she killed another human being - specifically his granddaughter - and therefore she is no longer worthy of his unconditional support?
 

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