SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[Pensfan]

since you quoted me, i have to ask what the intent of your post was? maybe i'm missing something (cleaning with the kids in between posts so totally possible) but i do not see the link between the two.

Your previous post discussed how you would express your anger to an "unjust" incarceration and I posted an example of how DE expressed his anger, i.g., he blew a kiss to the victims' families.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/damien1.html

 

[~n/t~]

imo, those who continue to claim that the 3 pled guilty yesterday are choosing to engage in libel. they did not plead guilty and this has been explained dozens of times on this board alone during the last 24 hours.

libel is a crime.

Today’s proceeding allows the defendants the freedom of speech to SAY they are innocent, but the FACT is, they just plead GUILTY. I strongly believe that the interests of justice have been served today.

On behalf of the State I have preserved the verdicts of those juries and averted more prolonged and costly trials and appeals in this case.

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog...is-3-plea-deal


Echols and Baldwin pleaded to three counts of first-degree murder; Miskelley to one count of first-degree murder and two counts of second-degree murder.Punishment was set at 18 years in prison -- time they had already served. In addition, each will serve 10-year suspended sentences, although they won't be required to report to parole officers and won't have any travel restrictions.

Each entered an Alford Plea, a legal maneuver that allows a defendant to plead guilty -- even if he maintains his innocence -- because it is in his best interest to do so. Although an Alford Plea allows a defendant to profess innocence, and each did in brief statements to the court, the plea carries the same legal weight as a regular guilty plea.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/aug/19/west-memphis-three-free/

 

[Steely Dan]

I didn't know you can outgrow mental illness? :waitasec:

Not being snarky but that is a strong statement you made. IMO and I'm not a psychologist nor a psychiatrist, if someone is diagnosed with mental illness especially psychosis and/or bi-polar, they should be on medication for life.

bbm...What does a mentally ill person look like?

BBM

Me. I have bi-polar disorder and I've never once thought about hurting another person for something they did to me. There are varying degrees of bi-polar disorder and some turn the depressive stage inward and others outward. I wasn't on medication for it for approx. 40 years and since I've been on it my manic levels have pretty much evened out, except that I still get very depressed at times. The manic phases have been curbed more than the depressive phases.

Just because Damien is bi-polar it doesn't make him a murderer. It P.O.'s me to no end when jerks try to use it as an excuse for crimes. Bi-polar disorder doesn't stop you from knowing right from wrong. The fact that so many try to use it makes it seem like it might be true. Repeat a lie enough and it becomes truth. JMO

I am not 100% sure who supported the release. IIRR, The 3 boys families included step and biological parents, so off top of my head, I wouldn't like to say. Perhaps more information will be forthcoming, but obviously Steve Branch and the Moore family did not support the release. At one time I did hear that Rick Murray, Pamela Hobbs and J M Byers had doubts about the convictions, but whether or not they supported the actual releases, I do not know. I am afraid I cannot help you there more than that.




Yes. The case and yesterday's events certainly seem to provoke a strong reaction in people.

In the 48 Hours I linked Pamela Hobbs says she believes her ex husband could have done it. He has some holes in his story that are interesting. In Pamela Hobbs interview she says that Terry would whip the kids with a belt and make them hold their hands above their heads while he did it.

Then while interviewing Terry he denies he ever did that but in two seconds says that if he did do it he would have them hold their hands above their heads so their hands wouldn't get hurt.

They did not admit guilt and I'm sure you know that.I think you keep repeating it to convince yourself and others that they did.They did not.

Technically, they did. That's what keeps them from being able to sue the state. Verbally they never admitted guilt but as far as state records go they did.

Three weeks ago defense attorneys approached prosecutors seeking the Alford plea option, Prosecutor Scott Ellington of Jonesboro said.

“At no time did we make an offer,” Ellington said. “The offer was made to us.”


Arkansas Attorney General Dustin McDaniel was contacted by defense council, and a meeting was arranged, Ellington said.

http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2011/08/20/top_story/doc4e4fd25dc7d29058784712.txt



____________________________

In light of these circumstances I decided to entertain plea offers that were being proposed by the defense. I NEVER considered ANY arrangement that would negate the verdicts of those two juries. Guilt or Innocence was NEVER ON THE TABLE.

Today’s proceeding allows the defendants the freedom of speech to SAY they are innocent, but the FACT is, they just plead GUILTY. I strongly believe that the interests of justice have been served today.

On behalf of the State I have preserved the verdicts of those juries and averted more prolonged and costly trials and appeals in this case.

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo...ecutors-statement-on-west-memphis-3-plea-deal

What difference does that make? The state accepted it.

Since the state "lost" the evidence of blood and mud taken from the fast food restaurant I'd be concerned about more "lost" evidence in any new trial coming up.

If the state truly wants to destroy the evidence that sounds a bit fishy to me.

Here's a good site I stumbled across yesterday. I've only read two pages, the first page and one page of evidence, and it's really interesting.

http://www.jivepuppi.com/jivepuppi_home.html

The testimony of officer Meek is particularly interesting. It's the first page of evidence I've read.

http://www.jivepuppi.com/meek.html

There is a lot of contradictions in her reports from that night versus her testimony in the two trials. In fact in the two trials her testimony varies a lot.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I know so many believe that this is justice and that these men are innocent.. While law enforcement was overwhelmEd with this case and definitely should have accepted outside agencies assistance who Had experience with this type case and it's my opinion that their choice not do so is what has led to the decision to let these 3 go free.. Without a doubt Damien Echols murdered those 3 little boys and after doing so he literally taunted the families and laughed at their devastation and pain.. It was only when he got to prison where he began enduring extreme sexual abuses by other inmates that he finally changed his tune of proud, arrogant, and taunting.. Sadly Damien Echols will go home with his beautiful wife, Lorri who he has been her entire life's mission for much of her entire life(what will eventually become of their relationship.. I have serious doubts.. But time will tell).. But he goes home with his beautiful wife while 3 liitle boys who themselves would have been grown adult men(26 yoa) likely married with children of their own, but instead are nothing more than gravesites with cold, hard gravestones.. Never the chance to go home to wives or children.. Never the chance to even live life.. All at the hands of a man that is "overwhelmed" with his new found freedom that escaped justice for the cold blooded murder of three baby boys.. I was there and watched it unfold before my eyes, along with seeing the undeniable markers of Damien's guilt throughout that process..THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY AND HAS BEEN FOR 18 yrs AND I AM NOT EXPRESSING MY OPINION ATTEMPTING TO SWAY OR CHANGE ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION OR VIEW, NOR TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE IN ANY WAY..

I am someone who has followed this case from right over the bridge from where it occurred and have read all available material many times over.. While as I stated at the beginning of my post I fully realize that LE involved were for no good reason refusing outside assistance which IMO led to their being released within the last 24 hours.. While I fully realize that and recognize it as being present in this case is one thing for it to technically get them set free.. But it is something totally different for LE errors made to make a person(s) who is/are guilty of murdering those 3 little boys for them to be innocent of those murders.. IMO it does not, nor will it ever make those guilty in any way innocent of the brutal murders that were committed..

Again this is MOO and is not being expressed to be argumentative with anyone.. It is my personal view and opinion and I do know the case inside and out.. I fully realize the high emotional charge of this case and it is why in all these years I have chosen to stay out of line of argument in discussing an opposing view from many..*

IMO our justice system can be manipulated to work in anyone's favor when worked at long enough, hard enough, enough financial backing and strong celebrity involvement which creates an a different media light all together..

These are MOO.. Please don't flame me for them.. I understand and respect that many do not share my view and that is ok..

 

[2goldfish]

Your previous post discussed how you would express your anger to an "unjust" incarceration and I posted an example of how DE expressed his anger, i.g., he blew a kiss to the victims' families.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/damien1.html

respectfully, I dont see your example as being something awful. rather christian in fact, to be so angry and yet do something kind instead of something awful?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I want to clear up a misconception. The three are not on parole. They were given ten year suspended sentences. They do not have to meet with a parole officer on a regular basis. There are conditions to the releases, separate for each of the freed men. I have not yet seen those conditions posted, but I'm hoping that callahan's will have them up soon.

Pensfan, how is blowing kisses violent? It's just teenaged antics, which he regrets now. I don't see how that supports your theory of psychotic behavior still being evident in Damien.

Finally, let me add my voice to the chorus that the Alford plea is not admitting responsibility. It's simply pleading guilty while maintaining innocence. And, I renew the question: Why would the State release three men who were already in prison (unjustly IMO) simply because they pleaded guilty? They had already been found guilty (in error), so accepting a plea is highly unusual at this stage.

It's obvious to me (and Ellington confirmed it) that the State knew they had no case and had never had a case, except for the lame "Satanic panic" BS. Ellington was trying to save face for the State of Arkansas and save his (and McDaniel's) career(s). IMO, he failed. I hope the good people of the State of Arkansas don't elect either of these two men because they appear dishonest and interested only in their careers and not in justice.

Also, I hope the good people of the region keep the pressure on to find the real killer of Chris, Michael and Stevie. THat person needs to be in prison. Then the boys can truly rest in peace.

 

[Steely Dan]

I know so many believe that this is justice and that these men are innocent.. While law enforcement was overwhelmEd with this case and definitely should have accepted outside agencies assistance who Had experience with this type case and it's my opinion that their choice not do so is what has led to the decision to let these 3 go free.. Without a doubt Damien Echols murdered those 3 little boys and after doing so he literally taunted the families and laughed at their devastation and pain.. It was only when he got to prison where he began enduring extreme sexual abuses by other inmates that he finally changed his tune of proud, arrogant, and taunting.. Sadly Damien Echols will go home with his beautiful wife, Lorri who he has been her entire life's mission for much of her entire life(what will eventually become of their relationship.. I have serious doubts.. But time will tell).. But he goes home with his beautiful wife while 3 liitle boys who themselves would have been grown adult men(26 yoa) likely married with children of their own, but instead are nothing more than gravesites with cold, hard gravestones.. Never the chance to go home to wives or children.. Never the chance to even live life.. All at the hands of a man that is "overwhelmed" with his new found freedom that escaped justice for the cold blooded murder of three baby boys.. I was there and watched it unfold before my eyes, along with seeing the undeniable markers of Damien's guilt throughout that process..THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY AND HAS BEEN FOR 18 yrs AND I AM NOT EXPRESSING MY OPINION ATTEMPTING TO SWAY OR CHANGE ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION OR VIEW, NOR TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE IN ANY WAY..

I am someone who has followed this case from right over the bridge from where it occurred and have read all available material many times over.. While as I stated at the beginning of my post I fully realize that LE involved were for no good reason refusing outside assistance which IMO led to their being released within the last 24 hours.. While I fully realize that and recognize it as being present in this case is one thing for it to technically get them set free.. But it is something totally different for LE errors made to make a person(s) who is/are guilty of murdering those 3 little boys for them to be innocent of those murders.. IMO it does not, nor will it ever make those guilty in any way innocent of the brutal murders that were committed..

Again this is MOO and is not being expressed to be argumentative with anyone.. It is my personal view and opinion and I do know the case inside and out.. I fully realize the high emotional charge of this case and it is why in all these years I have chosen to stay out of line of argument in discussing an opposing view from many..*

IMO our justice system can be manipulated to work in anyone's favor when worked at long enough, hard enough, enough financial backing and strong celebrity involvement which creates an a different media light all together..

These are MOO.. Please don't flame me for them.. I understand and respect that many do not share my view and that is ok..

BBM

Echols was on Death Row and so abuse by other inmates would be impossible.

 

[my2sense]

I feel it all comes down to the money. If they would have been released based on they never committed the crime and spent all those years in prison they could turn around and sue the state of Arkansas. It has happened here in IL many of times. They put them in a catch 22. Do you want your freedom? Do you want to get off death row today? Then here is the key to unlock that cell door BUT you need to claim your guilty and stay out of trouble or back to prison you go! I know it sounds crazy but unfortunately the State of Arkansas had them right where they wanted them. This way the State still has not admitted they falsely imprisoned 3 men for 1/2 of their adult life, but being the DNA showed they did not commit the crime they did the right thing and let them go but made them admit to guilty instead of the State of Arkansas. This is my opinion. I think it is a travesty. They are either innocent or not, they should be in prison or not. These word games the State played to cover their butts is so wrong.

your right on!!!-I call this BRIBERY the legal way!!JMO

Technically, it's extortion. I know the feeling on a much smaller scale. My DD (who is bi-polar and has been extremely violent in the past, but no more...) had an SSI hearing. It took 3 years of denials to get to the hearing stage. The day of the hearing, the Judge told her (newly acquired) lawyer that he would offer a deal. He could grant the SSI without a hearing if she would wave 2 years of backpayments/benefits. If she didn't agree, she would have to "take her chances" with a hearing, and no guarantee it would go her way.

My DD was already a wreck (she has a lot of mental health issues, so "testifying" was a terrifying prospect for her) -- so what was she going to do? She took the deal. After 3 years, why take the chance with a Judge who was offering the deal? That's extortion.

Same thing for the WM3 -- but magnified a thousand fold. I'd take the deal, too.

 

[my2sense]

The Byers interview is quite explosive. Be warned - there's some strong language involved!

do you have a link?

 

[Pensfan]

respectfully, I dont see your example as being something awful. rather christian in fact, to be so angry and yet do something kind instead of something awful?

Damien stated that he blew the victims' families a kiss out of anger.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/damien1.html
This means he was taunting the families. Google the words "taunted the family" and "killer taunted the family". This behavior is not rare.

 

[Pensfan]

BBM

Echols was on Death Row and so abuse by other inmates would be impossible.

He was in a cell by himself. He admitted that he read thousands (many) of books in prison. His supporters had sent him so many that somewhere a storage area had to be created for the books.

If he could read all these books with "supposed" verbal abuse occurring around him, he could contemplate many other things.

 

[Steely Dan]

He was in a cell by himself. He admitted that he read thousands (many) of books in prison. His supporters had sent him so many that somewhere a storage area had to be created for the books.

If he could read all these books with "supposed" verbal abuse occurring around him, he could contemplate many other things.

The books would have been brought to his cell by guards.

 

[Pensfan]

I want to clear up a misconception. The three are not on parole. They were given ten year suspended sentences. They do not have to meet with a parole officer on a regular basis. There are conditions to the releases, separate for each of the freed men. I have not yet seen those conditions posted, but I'm hoping that callahan's will have them up soon.

"The three were credited with time served, and Echols is being freed from Arkansas' death row. They were placed on 10 years' probation and if they re-offend they could be sent back to prison for 21 years, Prosecutor Scott Ellington said."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...30-504083.html

Pensfan, how is blowing kisses violent? It's just teenaged antics, which he regrets now. I don't see how that supports your theory of psychotic behavior still being evident in Damien.

I never posted that "psychotic behavior is still evident".

I explained my opinion about the "blowing of a kiss in anger" on this page. It is a taunting behavior.

Finally, let me add my voice to the chorus that the Alford plea is not admitting responsibility. It's simply pleading guilty while maintaining innocence. And, I renew the question: Why would the State release three men who were already in prison (unjustly IMO) simply because they pleaded guilty? They had already been found guilty (in error), so accepting a plea is highly unusual at this stage.

It's obvious to me (and Ellington confirmed it) that the State knew they had no case and had never had a case, except for the lame "Satanic panic" BS. Ellington was trying to save face for the State of Arkansas and save his (and McDaniel's) career(s). IMO, he failed. I hope the good people of the State of Arkansas don't elect either of these two men because they appear dishonest and interested only in their careers and not in justice.

Also, I hope the good people of the region keep the pressure on to find the real killer of Chris, Michael and Stevie. THat person needs to be in prison. Then the boys can truly rest in peace.

 

[Melanie]

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-west-memphis-3-leave-for-seclusion-20110820,0,2367428.story

Two of WM3 leave swanky hotel to board luxury buses
Celebs perform at private party
Headed to seclusion

 

[SmoothOperator]

Steely Dan, DE was at one time not incarcerated on death row.. I will search to find the link, but as I said I have followed this case from day one and he infact an emergency hearing called by his attorney for the courts to intervene on DE being sexually assaulted while incarcerated and that nothing was being done to help him.. It did happen and I remember it clear as day when DE appeared for this specific hearing asking for intervention to stop the sexual assaults that he was enduring..

ETA: actually he filed a lawsuit against the state of Arkansas for the repeated rapes that he was enduring.. I assumed the rapes were a well known fact.. Again ATLEAST a fact that DE claimed this in a court of law in 1996

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Steely Dan, DE was at one time not incarcerated on death row.. I will search to find the link, but as I said I have followed this case from day one and he infact an emergency hearing called by his attorney for the courts to intervene on DE being sexually assaulted while incarcerated and that nothing was being done to help him.. It did happen and I remember it clear as day when DE appeared for this specific hearing asking for intervention to stop the sexual assaults that he was enduring..

I have never in my life (before this case, but I generally only work cases in Virginia) heard of a person on death row not being in segregation status. However, in this case, DE, for some reason was not in segregation and was raped in prison and sued the state in 1996 because of it. I don't have a link at the moment and can find one later, but I did hear that the above is correct.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Here is where it's stated that he was repeatedly raped before filing for intervention.. Someone who may know better how to find specific court docs could actually post the actual info from the hearing.. But as I said I remember the hearing as clear as day and it was when he'd let his grow really long and had long nails as well.. Some may remember the televised interview from around this time as well where it shows him with the long hair and nails.. In the interview he looks really out of it, eyes rolling back in his head..

The repeated rape is at fact ATLEAST the fact that this is what DE claimed and actually filed action in a court of law due to it..

himself. Footage from 1996, after Damien was repeatedly raped in prison before he filed a lawsuit against the state, shows the once-stocky teen to be reed-thin, pale, exhausted. This was also before Paradise Lost was widely shown.http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usma&c=wm3&id=2719

 

[SmoothOperator]

DE clear as day stated as recently as yesterday in the PC that it was only the last decade that he spent in solitary.. I know the facts and it can be argued.. My intention was not to be argumentative but rather only to make my point that it was not until his repeated rapes that DE had his change of tone from the arrogant, taunting individual even to the victim's families to a much different.. less arrogant individual.. That was my only point in bringing it up.. Those who have followed the case and know the ends and outs know that this infact was claimed in a court of law by Damien/ATTY around 1996..

 

[SmoothOperator]

Seclusion.. Wonder if they'll go to Ohio and all don Ohio State gear shopping in Old Navy?? And have pix and video emerge for monetary gain??

 

[Melanie]

Seclusion.. Wonder if they'll go to Ohio and all don Ohio State gear shopping in Old Navy?? And have pix and video emerge for monetary gain??

Well they can't go far -- I believe they have to stay in the State (or get permission to leave).

MOO

Mel