SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[LunaticFringe]

I think JMB once stated in one of the Paradise Lost tapes that he had his teeth lost to due to fighting.Someone can correct me if I am incorrect.He has said a few different things concerning the loss of his teeth.You have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.

I don't know if Terry Hobbs sexually abused Stevie but I do believe he was an abusive bully.I do not know why anyone suppoorts that low life in the first place...yet people feel sorry for him.So what if people accuse him of being the murderer...he isn't in jail.He was a sorry *advertiser censored* excuse for a husband and stepfather.

 

[Soulmagent]

Does anyone have a link to a video of that? TIA...

I suppose there has to be a video somewhere,but it was in the live few minutes before the presser actualy started.

The camera guy had the camera set up and they had not got the mics set up so the WM3 were sitting there waiting.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

LE was driving the train, and West Memphis was already in the early stages of a fit of Satanic Panic before these murders happened. When something horrible happened in their midst just as rumours of Satanic ritual murderers began to circulate, the rumour panic went wild. Against such a backdrop, the WM police stood little chance of getting accurate statements off the locals, instead they got teenagers coming forward to claim that Damien Echols was reading their mind during gym class, and the like.

They didn't have a clue how to solve this crime, the populace was on the verge of mass panic, so they resorted to the age old tactic of pull in the nearest weak link and lean on him till he confesses. It was only after the local press published Misskelley's confession that the parents hopped on board.

:goodpost: I completely agree!! That confession was the only thing that they ever had against these boys that "connected" them to the crime. It was not only recanted, but obtained illegally through misconduct (both times). I don't think that the parents understood (and still might not, like much of the public) how illegal and unreliable that confession was. If I were them and didn't know the things that I know about law and the justice system, I would have believed it and wanted justice. Those boys went in to prison on (and apparently walked out to) the judges from the Salem witch trials working in conjunction with the Ministry of Truth and the Thought Police.

 

[deelytful1]

Kinda OT:
How can these 3 guys be sent to prison for 18 years over nothing but hearsay, a coerced confession and a blatant fear of the occult and people being "different" in that town YET Casey Anthony be set free?? Sigh.. sorry. Just ran thru my head after reading all the posts about these poor kids.
I know we have the greatest legal system but OMG it is SO flawed!!

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Kinda OT:
How can these 3 guys be sent to prison for 18 years over nothing but hearsay, a coerced confession and a blatant fear of the occult and people being "different" in that town YET Casey Anthony be set free?? Sigh.. sorry. Just ran thru my head after reading all the posts about these poor kids.
I know we have the greatest legal system but OMG it is SO flawed!!

Because juries don't always get it right.

 

[Nefriahaia]

Because juries don't always get it right.

:highfive: :grouphug:

 

[JBean]

I think JMB once stated in one of the Paradise Lost tapes that he had his teeth lost to due to fighting.Someone can correct me if I am incorrect.He has said a few different things concerning the loss of his teeth.You have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.

I don't know if Terry Hobbs sexually abused Stevie but I do believe he was an abusive bully.I do not know why anyone suppoorts that low life in the first place...yet people feel sorry for him.So what if people accuse him of being the murderer...he isn't in jail.He was a sorry *advertiser censored* excuse for a husband and stepfather.

Ok so am I safe in assuming that the removal of his teeth to avoid LE taking an impression is opinion held by some and not a documented fact?
This an important distinction for me and I am not trying to be nitpicky or overly link crazy.

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes, you are safe to assume that. LE never did go looking for dental impressions in the first place, it was defense expert, Brent Turvey, who touted the idea of bite marks. As Turvey is a criminal profiler, he was way outside of his field of expertise in diagnosing any marks on the bodies as human bite marks anyway.

The stepfathers' teeth are a red herring.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Ok so am I safe in assuming that the removal of his teeth to avoid LE taking an impression is opinion held by some and not a documented fact?
This an important distinction for me and I am not trying to be nitpicky or overly link crazy.

From my recollection, without going back and sorting through thousands of pages and hours of footage, I have never seem anyone admit that they had their teeth pulled to avoid detection of LE. The only thing that I have seen that even suggests that anything regarding teeth evidence being hidden was that Terry Hobbs had his old partial locked in a box.

ETA: I would feel safe in your assumption.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Why isn't TH in prison for shooting his BIL in the gut and causing his death? :waitasec: Did he ever face charges on that?

Jackie Hicks, Jr. didn't die until some years later of complications from the gut shot. Hobbs, IIRC, pleaded to aggravated assault and got 11 months' probation and a ten year suspended sentence. In the Pasdar deposition I believe, he skirts the issue saying such gems as "I don't 'member" or "It's all a bunch o' garbage" and other idiocies. I highly recommend you watch/read this deposition. You'll find out a lot about Hobbs.

 

[SyraKelly]

I also think the Probation Officer Jerry E (I think that was his name ) had a big influence with LE about the boys and they took that and ran with!!JMO

 

[JBean]

Yes, you are safe to assume that. LE never did go looking for dental impressions in the first place, it was defense expert, Brent Turvey, who touted the idea of bite marks. As Turvey is a criminal profiler, he was way outside of his field of expertise in diagnosing any marks on the bodies as human bite marks anyway.

The stepfathers' teeth are a red herring.

OK that makes sense to me. thanks to those that helped me here.

General request to members:
Since there are so many new members and lurkers that have become interested in this case, let's be particularly careful about differentiating fact from opinion.
Feel free to state what and why things were said or done, just make sure that we all clarify what we or others have deduced from surrounding information and what may have been proven or corroborated in trial,statements or other sources.
I hope that helps and that what I am saying makes sense.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

yes,he was charged with assault ,I think also with assault of his wife .

He was also charged with assault and criminal trespassing in the early eighties when he broke into a neighbors house and sexually assaulted her.He did this because she complained about him beating up his former wife and his son.
He also supposedly sexually abuse this son.

That neighbor would be Mildred French. Her declaration is available on the Blackboard: http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=1878.0

I'm not really sure how/why TH can get away with so much. I tend to call him Teflon Terry.

 

[LisRho]

I was alerted to and became interested in this case many months ago by a coworker.

After having researched and read about as much as one could, I honestly believe that at the absolute minimum the WM3 deserved a new and truthful trial, but my actual personal opinion is they are not guilty of these horrific murders. And at this point the killer(s) will go free and these 3 beautiful children will never have justice for their memories.

What is putting me off is the argumentative and condescending tone of those who believe them to be guilty. There is one poster about 3 pages back (sorry but I forget your name) whom while they believe the WM3 to be guilty, stated their opinion in a factual and tolerant tone to those who believe different.

What I truly want to say, because I am seeing this over and over again, they did indeed never plead guilty.

The Alford Plea allowed them to claim their innocence, which they did, and verbally enter a plea of nolo, or no contest, which is then entered by the court as guilty.

I have no issue with anyone who feels they are guilty, you are by all means entitled to that, but using the argument that they plead guilty really is a non-started. At no time did they use the word guilt(y). They plead no contest.

 

[Steely Dan]

LE was driving the train, and West Memphis was already in the early stages of a fit of Satanic Panic before these murders happened. When something horrible happened in their midst just as rumours of Satanic ritual murderers began to circulate, the rumour panic went wild. Against such a backdrop, the WM police stood little chance of getting accurate statements off the locals, instead they got teenagers coming forward to claim that Damien Echols was reading their mind during gym class, and the like.

They didn't have a clue how to solve this crime, the populace was on the verge of mass panic, so they resorted to the age old tactic of pull in the nearest weak link and lean on him till he confesses. It was only after the local press published Misskelley's confession that the parents hopped on board.

I think the police wanted a conviction more than the real perpetrator.

From my recollection, without going back and sorting through thousands of pages and hours of footage, I have never seem anyone admit that they had their teeth pulled to avoid detection of LE. The only thing that I have seen that even suggests that anything regarding teeth evidence being hidden was that Terry Hobbs had his old partial locked in a box.

ETA: I would feel safe in your assumption.

I am reposting a former post of mine because the link does have that both Hobbs and Byers had their teeth pulled. I guess Byers was for medical reasons but they never say why Hobbs had them pulled.

I was wrong. It was Byers who had a wife who died. This site makes a strong case for Hobbs being one of the killers it also compares him to Byers. It has a lot more information than I've excerpted here;

http://www.jivepuppi.com/Terry_Hobbs.html

...Hobbs vs. The Dixie Chicks

Like fellow country singer Cheryl Crow, Natalie Maines Pasdar, a member of the popular band, The Dixie Chicks, could lay claim to the verse, "I was born in the South / sometimes I have a big mouth / when I see something that I don't like."

A vocal supporter of the West Memphis 3, during a rally in Little Rock, Pasdar reiterated some of the recent findings presented by the lawyers and reasons why Terry Hobbs should be considered a suspect. Months later, on November 25, 2008 Terry Hobbs, declaring he had been defamed and publicly accused of murder, filed suit against Pasdar. For Terry Hobbs, it was a disaster.

Allegations became sworn depositions and Terry Hobbs was required to defend his past behavior, his criminal record and his actions the night the children went missing. Under scrutiny, Hobbs stories became inconsistent and incoherent.

Close associates and several members of Pamela Hobbs family gave sworn depositions with devastating accusations.

* Jo Lynn McAughey, Stevie's aunt, stated that Terry Hobbs repeated sexually molested his daughter, Amanda. She stated that he used cocaine, crystal meth and marijuana. She stated she was at the Hobbs house on May 6, 1993 and saw "Terry wash clothes, bed linens and curtains at an odd hour. [snip] ...he was not just washing the dirty laundry, but he was also taking clothes out of the dresser drawers and washing those, too." She stated she found Stevie's prized pocketknife, one he always kept with him, among Terry Hobbs belongings. Pam declared she was surprised that the knife was not found on his body. Jo Lynn said that Terry Hobbs had told her that his experience as a butcher gave him the skill to make the cut on Chris Byers' genitals. She stated she discovered Terry had a large cache of knives. In response, Terry Hobbs admitted to the drug use, gave contradictory stories about Stevie's knife, denied washing items on May 6th, denied discussing the murders with Jo Lynn and denied the molestation charges.
* Judy Sadler, Stevie's aunt, stated Stevie told her Terry Hobbs locked Stevie in the closet and beat him. She said he forced Stevie and his sister Amanda to watch *advertiser censored*, and threatened to kill members of the Hicks family if Stevie told. She said Terry forced Stevie to sexually molest his sister and he made Stevie watch him masturbate. Terry Hobbs denied these accusations.
* Sheila Hicks, Stevie's aunt, stated that Terry Hobbs whipped Stevie Branch leaving welts. She stated he forced Stevie to play "dead cockroach," lying on his back with his arms and legs raised and, when his limbs grew tired and he tried to lower them, Terry would "whoop" him. She also stated that Stevie talked about fights that Terry and Pam had and Stevie saw Terry strangling Pam. Finally, she stated in 1997 that she saw Terry Hobbs simulating sex with his then nine year old daughter, Amanda.
* Marie Hicks, Stevie's grandmother, claimed that Terry Hobbs was physically and sexually abusive, used drugs and was alcoholic. She said that when Amanda Hobbs was young, she confided in her that Terry Hobbs stuck his finger in her "booty." Terry Hobbs denied all of this.
* Amanda Hobbs, Terry's daughter, gave a devastating plea regarding her father's abuse. Terry denied the abuse and said he couldn't remember if he ever discussed this subject with her.
* Sharon Nelson, Hobbs girlfriend, said that Hobbs claimed that he found the bodies before the police but left them there, undiscovered. Hobbs denied this.
* David Jacoby, Hobbs friend, said that he only searched with Terry Hobbs briefly before dark. He also stated that when Terry Hobbs came to his house, he saw the three victims in the street behind him. Hobbs denied ever having seen the victims that evening and described repeated trips searching with Jacoby.
* Mildred French, an elderly neighbor of his during the 1980s, said that she was sexually attacked by Terry Hobbs. She also stated that he claimed to have killed her cat. Charges were filed. Without actually denying the attack, Terry dismissed this as being ancient history. He admitted to being sentenced to counselling at the time. He denied saying he killed her cat....

_____________________________________________

...On December 1, 2009 a judge granted a summary judgment in favor of Pasdar and the case was dismissed. The judge ruled that Hobbs should pay Pasdar $17,590.27 for legal expenses. The amount of the settlement wasn't revealed publicly for several months, at which time, Terry Hobbs responded, "I don't give a damn what that judge says, I’m not paying the Dixie Chicks a thing." [Jonesboro Sun, April 21, 2010]...

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I always figured Byers lost his teeth because of meth.

Byers lost his teeth as a result of medication (I want to say Tergoril) that he took to treat a brain tumor.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

From what I remember in PL 2, DE did say that sexual abuse by other prisoners had occured. IIRR he was bringing some charge regarding it back then, but I have not been able to find any documentation of it yet.

I have heard of sexual abuse happening on another DR before. I recall someone who was exonerated from DR in Texas (can't remember his name of the top of my head) but he was allegedly raped when the DR prisonsers were allowed to exercise in the yard together, that I believe was in the 80's/early 90's. I will try and look out who this ex-prisoner was.

I believe that now prisoners excercise on their own in Texas DR, so perhaps this could be what happened in DE's case. But I am just suggesting a possible scenarion here.

IIRC, the assault occurred because there was a hole in the wall that allowed the other prisoner access to Damien's cell. When he told the guards, they did nothing to help him. He discusses it in Almost Home, and it's been a while since I read it.

ETA: Sorry, I just looked back at Almost Home. It doesn't discuss the rapes only the abuse by prison guards. I guess it was in one of his many interviews that he discussed the rapes.

 

[21merc7]

Byers lost his teeth as a result of medication (I want to say Tergoril) that he took to treat a brain tumor.

Has that ever been confirmed? I know during the filming of Paradise Lost 2 he gave 3 different reasons, one was the medication, one was a bar fight, the other was surgical removal. He also said he had his teeth removed before the murders, but the dental records showed April 1997.

 

[21merc7]

I've also never understood the fire in the woods scene either, unless there was some evidence undiscovered and needed to be rid of. He knew it was being filmed, how bizarre is this action from an adult?

About 5 minutes in:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djc4PUiNoI4&feature=related"]Paradise Lost II: Revelations - part 6/9 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[SmoothOperator]

Just a few thoughts regarding Jason Baldwin's tear jerking kindness of "biting the gun" to save Damien's life, as "they were trying to kill Damien!".. Look around at the team of legal Attys that were just seen on cam in the PC.. As we all are aware this is just a mere fraction of the amount of manpower that was at work on this case..(over the course of years literal hundreds have been on this case and later moved on..). Just as in Casey Anthony's defense team(which is only a teeny sliver in comparison to WM3 legal team and not to mention the celebrity element involved). But just as we've seen occur with Casey Anthony that DT also has a very real component that handles the major of importance issue of PR.. Especially important to defendants who are widely regarded as truly guilty of murder(as is the case with CA)..

One would be naive to believe this was not a massive component of the defense team of the WM3, considering they've had eighteen years of many feeling strongly of their guilt, not to mention their twice over being found guilty of those 3 little boys murders.. Well.. Can you imagine the extreme measures that would be taken to do damage control on eighteen years and those that believe the verdicts being upheld as guilty was the only justice that was served August 19..*

It is nothing unusual whatsoever, nor is it illegal in anyway whatsoever to manipulate the media and the public's perception of a defendant or defendants.. I'm certain this issue has had much manpower and many long hours deliberating how to manipulate this perception to not make seem as tho it really was.. And that is that the defense after many long hard years of work finally worked one of our many loop holes , combined with their having been close to 2 decades of time having passed since the murders.. Obviously any prosecutor worth his salt knowing it not possible to put on a solid murder trial given the many deteriorating aspects that a case (any case even of high integrity) would lose over the course of two decades.. So the defense having more than earned their pro Bono pay for working the loop holes of our system and finally able to make a plea deal for their clients.. Who without a doubt the minute they were told of the plea deal it was immediately jumped on just as DE and JM admit.. MOO so did JB.. So how does the legal team make it appear to look different.. For the public not to have the perception that indeed is accurate IMO of the gettin, while the gettin's good, didn't give a damn about being Alford plead guilty(cause they are IMO).. So they had zero issue with it and knew they'd finally manipulated the system to work in their favor.. IMO there is no explosive DNA tying Hobbs and Jacoby to being the "real" killers of the three young boys that was going to in any way clear these three or prove them innocent nor found innocent in a new jury trial.. That explosive DNA plain and simple does not exist.. Because plain and simple if it did then these three would not have been taking an Alford plea but rather been exonerated at the very least with even possibly two others tried for the murders(Hobbs/Jacoby) tho as I explained 2 decades later damn near impossible to try any murder case even of new defendants.. Point is they would have been exonerated not taking an Alford plea, period and end of the story.. These three will never be exonerated nor will there be attempts at clearing their names because they are guilty of murder(7counts 1st degree and 2 counts of 2nd degree)..

And it's due to all of this and so much more that is encompassed in this case dubbed the WM3 that the legal team came with a way of attempting damage control and of manipulating the media and public, even tugging at heartstrings of many.. Just as in Casey Anthony's case there are intentional manipulations by her DT in attempts to repair an extremely negative reputation.. That too was seen here in the WM3 case with their playing the heartstrings card of "see Jason wanted to hold out cause he is innocent"..(and if he is they all are) and wanted to go all the way with the explosive DNA against Hobbs/Jacoby who really "murdered those little boys" and be fully exonerated.. But his loyalty to his pal Damien, "who they're trying to kill" outweighed his longing for true and real justice when he had "to bite the gun" for Damien..
And on and on the PR damage and reputation control plays out with Damien thanking him publicly and an embrace..

Not difficult one iota when seeing they'd just won new found freedom along with the fact that just as was witnessed it did affect many by their hearing that he was supposedly last minute not to accept and only did so to save DE..

Again I bring up Casey because HER'S is still being manipulated to attempt to repair an IMO irreparable rep.. And so too is the same with what was/is being exactly attempted in the wm3 case and their reputations.. It is naive to believe that this is NOT occurring in a case the magnitude of what is the WM3.. and would easily be agreed to by all parties, again, my God new found freedom as well as some much needed repair done to reputations that are not that of innocence IMO.. Slam dunk deal and just another proof positive of the ingenious legal experts at work here in this case *in using manipulation to manipulate the media as well as much of the public's emotions, feelings, opinions.. It happens everday and it happened in this past week, culminating on Friday, the 19th with the PC of the WM3..

As always jmo, tho!!