SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[HRCODEPINK]

All of the nastiest of the vilest of accusations hurled still does NOT a murderer it make.. And definitely it does not make one the murderer of Stevie, Michael, and Christopher.. That has been twice over found to be Damien, Jason, Jessie with 7 counts 1st degree and 2 counts of second degree murder of those three little boys..

Respectfully snipped and BBM

I could not possibly agree more with this bolded part and believe that it works both ways. And keep in mind that in at least one of those trials there was juror misconduct on the part of the foreman by bringing up a confession that was unreliable and obtained illegally through misconduct on the part of LE.

 

[Cappuccino]

The case against Terry Hobbs involves a heck of a lot more than one hair. I'm not saying the case against him is enough to convict, nor even to accuse him on a mere Internet forum. But I will state this as a recorded fact, (and I can give links to back it up if necessary)...

The case against Terry Hobbs has more evidence - both direct and circumstantial - than was ever mustered by the case for the prosecution in the original two trials.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Thanks little blue button just wasn't enough, Pensfan!!

Over the course of this case being now 18 long years many of us have watched it unfold and read many times over ALL MATERIALS of this case.. So too often is the misrepresentation of who Damien Echols is and his deep illness and drastic disturbances.. The real Damien(whose name was not even Damien, but only changed by himself) and the documentation that is very much relevant that clearly shows who the real Damien is, not the misunderstood choir boy that history has been rewritten to portray him falsely.. The real life Damien that yes, was institutionalized on 3 separate occasions just in the year's time leading up to his killing Stevie, Michael, and Christopher..

Thank you for posting some of that relevant material that is not often seen as it does not accuraty represent this falsely, rewritten history of a misunderstood choir boy type image..

Posting only via mobile these days makes it damn near impossible to be able to truly search and locate specific information.. But no mistaking it is ALL THERE.. ALL THE RELEVANT, TRUE, AND ACCURATE ACCOUNTS OF THE REAL DAMIEN..

Thanks for posting Pensfan!! :blowskisses:

 

[Cappuccino]

To say that people who are rightly skeptical of the prosecution's dodgy, lame donkey of a case against the WM3 think Damien was "a misunderstood choirboy", is to erect a strawman of epic proportions.

I think you'll find that the real argument from supporters is that Damien having psychological problems does not equal guilt of this crime, not even for Damien himself, let alone for Jason or Jessie.

 

[~n/t~]

The case against Terry Hobbs involves a heck of a lot more than one hair. I'm not saying the case against him is enough to convict, nor even to accuse him on a mere Internet forum. But I will state this as a recorded fact, (and I can give links to back it up if necessary)...

The case against Terry Hobbs has more evidence - both direct and circumstantial - than was ever mustered by the case for the prosecution in the original two trials.

I'd like links to the physical direct evidence putting Hobbs at the scene of the crime besides the one hair. If possible. TIA

 

[SmoothOperator]

I understand and respect your opinion HRCODEPINK, as well as I understand that just as there are many that think there was possible juror misconduct(plenty of it discussed in CA forum) there is still a verdict that stands of Not Guilty for Casey murdering Caylee.. So, too do the 3 verdicts stand of Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelley of GUILTY of murdering the three victims..

 

[HRCODEPINK]

To say that people who are rightly skeptical of the prosecution's dodgy, lame donkey of a case against the WM3 think Damien was "a misunderstood choirboy", is to erect a strawman of epic proportions.

I think you'll find that the real argument from supporters is that Damien having psychological problems does not equal guilt of this crime, not even for Damien himself, let alone for Jason or Jessie.

:goodpost:

Just as the claims against TH prove nothing the information about DE being mentally ill proves nothing as far as this crime is concerned. And I have never labeled DE as a choir boy. Perhaps what is even more disturbing is that it would seem to some, DE's metal illness would seem to convict not only himself, but Jessie and Jason as well....I guess via guilt by association????

If the country made decisions in court cases based solely on mental illness or retardation, we would lock up everyone with any mental illness or retardation before they could "have the chance" to commit a crime and to me, that seems very...1692.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I have personally seen it posted in this thread more than once where Damien was described as just a puppy in need of just a little TLC is all.. Which it's my opinion only that is even more of a sympathetic, pure as driven snow description than that of mine as a misunderstood choir boy..MOO and obviously greatly different and have zero problem agreeing to disagree with if not all, a great majority of the details, areas, evidence, defendants, etc of this case..

MOO..

 

[SyraKelly]

I just read TH Depo and never knew the police found a gun at the scene and it was one of a caliber that TH said that maybe Pam's family might stolen-the lawyer asked him if he was carrying a gun that night looking for the children...was this gun ever proven to be his?I am off to read part 2-sorry about edit several times!

 

[~n/t~]

How valuable would 1 hair with a root on it belonging to Casey Anthony have been wrapped in that duct tape? How valuable would it have been for the death band hair to have had Caylee's root on it? For what reason should a hair of both TH and his friend, that he was with that evening be at the crime scene?

And most importantly, there isn't even one hair belonging to the WM3 there. If a hair is not enough, what evidence was there that was enough for you to find the originally convicted people guilty?

Not being snarky whatsoever. I am genuinely curious, because I do want to see this from all sides and I haven't followed closely for about 5 years and I am totally open to all possibilities.

Caylee's one hair was found in the trunk of the car with root banding consistant to decomposition and it wasn't enough to convict. I seriously doubt one single hair belonging to TH would have convicted him of 3 counts of first degree murder.

We have a detailed confession and:

Fibers found on the victims’ clothes matched clothes seized from Echols’ and Baldwin’s homes. The prosecution presented this fiber evidence at both trials. Supporters argue that those fibers came from common material found in many homes and that the fiber matches don’t really connect Echols and Baldwin to the crime scene. Frankly, I side with supporters on this one. The fiber evidence was weak.

* Blue candle wax on one victim’s shirt was similar to blue candle wax found in Damien Echols’ bedroom.

* Police took a necklace from Echols when he was arrested. An outside crime lab later found blood from two distinct DNA sources on the necklace. One source was consistent with Echols himself. The second source was consistent with both victim Steven Branch and co-defendant Jason Baldwin.

So it’s not true that there was “no physical evidence tying the defendants to the crime”. The physical evidence just wasn’t overwhelming. Just as importantly, there was no physical evidence tying any other suspects to the crime.


http://wm3truth.com/the-west-memphis-three-were-guilty/physical-evidence-and-lack-thereof/

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I understand and respect your opinion HRCODEPINK, as well as I understand that just as there are many that think there was possible juror misconduct(plenty of it discussed in CA forum) there is still a verdict that stands of Not Guilty for Casey murdering Caylee.. So, too do the 3 verdicts stand of Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelley of GUILTY of murdering the three victims..

Sadly, you are correct, in both instances. I sincerely hope that the WM3 continue to try to prove their innocence and will be allowed to do so if they truly have evidence that points to someone specific. Not accusations by previous wives or family or friends, but concrete evidence that points to someone specific committing this crime.

ETA:

I have personally seen it posted in this thread more than once where Damien was described as just a puppy in need of just a little TLC is all.. Which it's my opinion only that is even more of a sympathetic, pure as driven snow description than that of mine as a misunderstood choir boy..MOO and obviously greatly different and have zero problem agreeing to disagree with if not all, a great majority of the details, areas, evidence, defendants, etc of this case..

MOO..

I was not part of these postings. I certainly don't see him as just a puppy.

 

[~n/t~]

in this case, an entourage was good for 18 years of unjust confinement.

it's truly laughable that people are bent on claiming these 3 got one over on the justice system bc of the help of some high-profile individuals.

as much as i'd love to have a reason to attach myself to johnny depp, 18 years behind bars is not a price i'd be willing to pay for it.

The fact remains ....they plead guilty to the crimes. Let's see if they will prove their innocence. Like I said in an earlier post, I won't hold my breath. I believe we'll probably see one or more in prison again before I believe they will prove innocence.

 

[claudicici]

I'd like links to the physical direct evidence putting Hobbs at the scene of the crime besides the one hair. If possible. TIA

...a hair tied inside the shoelace that bound Michael Moore.I'm having a hard time thinking of a way this could have been innocent transfer,especially since Hobbs maintains he did not see any of the children at all that day.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Caylee's one hair was found in the trunk of the car with root banding consistant to decomposition and it wasn't enough to convict. I seriously doubt one single hair belonging to TH would have convicted him of 3 counts of first degree murder.

We have a detailed confession and:

Fibers found on the victims’ clothes matched clothes seized from Echols’ and Baldwin’s homes. The prosecution presented this fiber evidence at both trials. Supporters argue that those fibers came from common material found in many homes and that the fiber matches don’t really connect Echols and Baldwin to the crime scene. Frankly, I side with supporters on this one. The fiber evidence was weak.

* Blue candle wax on one victim’s shirt was similar to blue candle wax found in Damien Echols’ bedroom.

* Police took a necklace from Echols when he was arrested. An outside crime lab later found blood from two distinct DNA sources on the necklace. One source was consistent with Echols himself. The second source was consistent with both victim Steven Branch and co-defendant Jason Baldwin.

So it’s not true that there was “no physical evidence tying the defendants to the crime”. The physical evidence just wasn’t overwhelming. Just as importantly, there was no physical evidence tying any other suspects to the crime.


http://wm3truth.com/the-west-memphis-three-were-guilty/physical-evidence-and-lack-thereof/

Thank you so much for this!! I really appreciate it when someone on the opposite side chooses not to ignore my questions and responds with a reasonable argument on their reasoning.

I will say that the confession will never mean anything at all to me. Not only because I personally know people who were the victims of their own false confessions, but the facts aren't completely correct, only 20 minutes of the interrogations was recorded, but most importantly to me, it was obtained illegally (more than once). I agree that the fiber evidence is weak.

That said: I thought that the blood on the necklace was only typed and DNA was not performed because the evidence was destroyed in the initial testing, before DNA was available. And I know nothing about the candle wax.

I need to go take 2 tests before midnight and then I am going to go look this information up and I will be back! Thank you again for taking the time to respond to me and not ignore me or be snarky. Like I said I am totally open to all possibilities here and want to see all sides and I appreciate your dialog on this.

 

[Cappuccino]

I'd like links to the physical direct evidence putting Hobbs at the scene of the crime besides the one hair. If possible. TIA

I'd like links to the physical, direct evidence putting Damien, Jason and Jessie at the scene of the crime, yes even if it was one hair.

I'd also be very interested in any physical evidence from any friends or associates of the WM3 which was found at the crime scene. Even if it was only one hair.

Or any witness statements from anybody at all who saw them in the company of the victims on the night of the murders.

Or any possessions of the victims being found in the possession of any of these three men after the murders.

If possible. TIA.

 

[gitana1]

Hey guys, I made a new thread on life for the three after release from prison. This one's getting a bit long! [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7052367#post7052367"]Life for the West Memphis Three - Free After the Alford Plea - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[~n/t~]

...a hair tied inside the shoelace that bound Michael Moore.I'm having a hard time thinking of a way this could have been innocent transfer,especially since Hobbs maintains he did not see any of the children at all that day.

If I was on a jury, I'd explain it away as Hobbs being the stepdad of one of the boys. I'm sure the kids were in and out of the home all the time.

I would use the same argument as Casey Anthony's hair being found in the trunk of the car (or even the grandparents hair). Even if Casey's hair was found on Caylee's clothing. It means nothing. Not enough to convict or say TH is a murderer. I would need more.

 

[~n/t~]

I'd like links to the physical, direct evidence putting Damien, Jason and Jessie at the scene of the crime, yes even if it was one hair.

I'd also be very interested in any physical evidence from any friends or associates of the WM3 which was found at the crime scene. Even if it was only one hair.

Or any witness statements from anybody at all who saw them in the company of the victims on the night of the murders.

Or any possessions of the victims being found in the possession of any of these three men after the murders.

If possible. TIA.

I'm guessing you have no links? I posted mine up above.

ETA: Perhaps I misunderstood your post. You said you had links.

 

[~n/t~]

The case against Terry Hobbs involves a heck of a lot more than one hair. I'm not saying the case against him is enough to convict, nor even to accuse him on a mere Internet forum. But I will state this as a recorded fact, (and I can give links to back it up if necessary)...

The case against Terry Hobbs has more evidence - both direct and circumstantial - than was ever mustered by the case for the prosecution in the original two trials.

This is the post where you claim you had links. bbm

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm guessing you have no links? I posted mine up above.

You're guessing wrong. You really need links to the Jacoby hair, the Ballards affidavits, the testimony of Pam Hobbs about the knife Stevie carried, the testimony of other family members about the bad blood between stepfather and stepson, the downright impossible claims which Terry Hobbs makes when he gives his "alibi" for the night of May 5th 1993, or his admission of regular beatings of Stevie and making him hold his hands over his head?

I can and will give them, but its nearly 1 am here, and I am going to bed. I'll look them up and post them for you in the morning.