SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[Cazzie]

Most of those admissions were made when he was a teenager. I claimed a lot about myself when I was a kid that was not accurate.

However, I have no doubt he huffed paint or gas and threatened to harm himself or his parents. I can see that. He had a very rough background and acted as many kids in such a situation would act. And that is why he was convicted, IMO - his background - his problems with the law, anti-social behaviors, sarcasm, dark clothing, goth style and music interests, etc.

But while kids with those behaviors need to be taken seriously and given help whether they want it or not, if they threaten harm, (think Columbine), there are millions of kids who fit such descriptions in the U.S.

So, while such characteristics could explain part of what compels a kid to murder or otherwise harm someone or himself, it doesn't prove he did it, as many have said.

The bottom line is this was a very small town with some very small-minded people in it who could not understand non-conformity and who would quickly suspect the "troubled" kid in town before ever looking elsewhere.

One of the investigators in this case essentially admitted that. Without a shred of evidence propelling him forward, he speculated that Echols was "capable" of committing the murders, stating "it looks like Damien Echols finally killed someone."

SBM.

Once that gets out, all of Damien's problems become magnified and exaggerated by those who knew him and those who didn't. Many reports about his behavior were obtained long after the crimes were committed.


I simply cannot see prosecutors agreeing to let three vicious, insane, baby killers walk right out of prison, one on death row, due to money. It simply makes zero sense, with all due respect.

Thank you so much...I could not find the words to so eloquently express my opinions.

 

[Robinez]

I suppose he means....if any one of these 3 kill anymore little boys?? Quite a chance to take. Disgusting and sick. :sick:

In my opinion, I think that the road ahead didn't bode well for any of them based on their lifestyle, psychological problems, and lack of structure. I truly believe any of them or all of them would have already served a considerable amount of time in prison even if they weren't convicted of this crime.

Without having a crystal ball, and of course it is only speculation, I wonder how many victims were spared because they were incarcerated? Folks keep shouting the word INNOCENT. Those boys weren't innocent. They may have been innocent of this particular murder(s), but they weren't innocent babes in the woods.

Before I get pounced on, I do not believe that they should have spent a min in jail for the murder of these babies if they didn't do it. I just get a hinky feeling that they were on a hwy to hell as kids and maybe ...just maybe..things happen for a reason.

Sincerely, Robin

ETA; When I said victim I was in no way indicating murder. My thought's were that there are no victimless crimes. There is always a victim. From stealing a pack of gum to armed robbery..

 

[UdbCrzy2]

The Prosecutor said that they have evidence that would convict all three. She said this in open court and it should be part of their guilty plea transcripts.

It begins at the 9:20 mark

Here is Twall's post
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7053779&postcount=1043"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August[/ame]

__________________________________________


Prosecutors written statement made in a press conference right after the guilty pleas and sentencing:
http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo...ecutors-statement-on-west-memphis-3-plea-deal

 

[Cazzie]

Think about this...even *IF* the 3 were guilty as originally charged...do we really want our justice system to convict someone (especially to death row) with so little evidence? If you answer yes, then we don't have an adequate justice system, and we can bring back lynching and other forms of vigilante justice and legalize them.

<shudder>

 

[Pensfan]

This really has nothing to do with anything, but this morning (I was away all weekend) on the Today show coverage of the release and the three at a news conference of some sort it appeared to me that DE was doing his best Johnny Depp impersonation.

I'm so glad you brought that up. I thought I was the only one and was to embarrassed to post it. :floorlaugh:

Since he already has diagnoses of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and he has the predisposing childhood history of horrific neglect for Dissociative Identity Disorder, maybe it is good if he does become Johnny Depp?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5734796/celebrities_with_dissociative_disorders.html?cat=70

http://wo-pub2.med.cornell.edu/cgi-...GPv0&parent=Other+Disorders&website=wmc+psych

 

[HRCODEPINK]

STATE OF ARKANSAS
BOARD OF CORRECTION AND COMMUNITY PUNISHMENT

SUBJECT: MERITORIOUS GOOD TIME

DEFINITIONS.
A. Meritorious Good Time - a reduction in an inmate's parole or transfer eligibility date
up to 30 days for each month incarcerated after imposition of sentence.

http://www.dcc.arkansas.gov/pdfs/policies/meritorious_ar.pdf

______________________________

A lady I know, her daughter was murdered and the guy went to prison for 1st degree murder and kidnapping and after 12 years he was granted a new trial on appeal. He plead guilty and was released due to the 'good time' sentencing provision.

So don't say it doesn't happen because it does.

Most people don't know that they only serve a portion of their sentences depending on the crime. In Missouri a life sentence is considered 30-years, if it's 2nd degree murder then they only have to serve 85%. If it's a lesser murder then it's even less.

So don't say it does not happen because it really does, you just never hear about it...

______________________________________________

Since this whole thing is about the death penalty (that's why antis celebs are involved), I will say this that right now there is only 40 people on death row and the last one to be executed was in 2005.

Death Row Arkansas
http://adc.arkansas.gov/inmates/Pages/deathRow.aspx

Executions
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/vie...xec_date&sort=desc&exec_name_1=&sex=All&state[0]=AR&sex_1=All&federal=All&foreigner=All&juvenile=All&volunteer=All

How would good time be calculated on a death sentence?

Jessie and Jason were under the age of 18, so they couldn't be sentenced to death.


I would be interested in looking into the details (*after finding the darn candle wax) of the decision to grant a new trial to the individual in the case you stated that was only locked up for 12 years? Could you give me his name, so that I might look that case up? Not that I don't believe what you are saying at all! I just would like to see the details and procedures that were gone through in order to get to that point and if lesser charges were involved and what reason the new trial was granted. This is the first time that I have ever seen anyone given a new trial for the specific purpose of allowing them to give a plea deal and leave on a first degree murder case and on a capital case for certain and also noting that the deal allowed them to maintain their innocence. I am sure some sort of legal Cha Cha wa at play, but I am curious about the reason for it, because new trials in murder cases are not given lightly in the first place.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

How would good time be calculated on a death sentence?

Jessie and Jason were under the age of 18, so they couldn't be sentenced to death.


I would be interested in looking into the details (*after finding the darn candle wax) of the decision to grant a new trial to the individual in the case you stated that was only locked up for 12 years? Could you give me his name, so that I might look that case up? Not that I don't believe what you are saying at all! I just would like to see the details and procedures that were gone through in order to get to that point and if lesser charges were involved and what reason the new trial was granted. This is the first time that I have ever seen anyone given a new trial for the specific purpose of allowing them to give a plea deal and leave on a first degree murder case and on a capital case for certain and also noting that the deal allowed them to maintain their innocence. I am sure some sort of legal Cha Cha wa at play, but I am curious about the reason for it, because new trials in murder cases are not given lightly in the first place.

Let us know what you find. I know this sounds unreal, but it does happen and most of the time nobody hears about it. Tougher sentencing laws are in order

Charles Riesinger (Illinois)

Plea deals: A system of bargaining justice?
http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/illinois/article_a297695f-c70a-5d3f-914d-62ba0dfedd14.html

No More Victims Victim Interview
It begins around the 3:00 mark
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27PvlsWTxe0"]No More Victims Victim Interview - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Nana46]

Let us know what you find. I know this sounds unreal, but it does happen and most of the time nobody hears about it. Tougher sentencing laws are in order

Charles Riesinger (Illinois)

Plea deals: A system of bargaining justice?
http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/illinois/article_a297695f-c70a-5d3f-914d-62ba0dfedd14.html

No More Victims Victim Interview
It begins around the 3:00 mark
No More Victims Victim Interview - YouTube

What a sad video. Bless this mother's heart.

 

[my2sense]

Let us know what you find. I know this sounds unreal, but it does happen and most of the time nobody hears about it. Tougher sentencing laws are in order

Charles Riesinger (Illinois)

Plea deals: A system of bargaining justice?
http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/illinois/article_a297695f-c70a-5d3f-914d-62ba0dfedd14.html

No More Victims Victim Interview
It begins around the 3:00 mark
No More Victims Victim Interview - YouTube

My heart goes out to that poor woman. Those prosecutors should have explained to her how that 25 years would play out. They left it up to her (the victim's family) whether or not to take the deal. I'm sure she would not have agreed if she'd known how it would turn out.

The families of the 3 little boys didn't get a say in the WM3 plea deal -- so that does make a difference between the resentencing of the above case and the WM3 case. But thank you for sharing this story. That should never have happened -- she should have been told.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

My heart goes out to that poor woman. Those prosecutors should have explained to her how that 25 years would play out. They left it up to her (the victim's family) whether or not to take the deal. I'm sure she would not have agreed if she'd known how it would turn out.

The families of the 3 little boys didn't get a say in the WM3 plea deal -- so that does make a difference between the resentencing of the above case and the WM3 case. But thank you for sharing this story. That should never have happened -- she should have been told.

Well it's not up to the victim's family. It's the State, the Defense and the Judge. We don't even get to find out ANYTHING about the case until trial. Bet you didn't know that either. It's not like on TV.

It's a club (Parents of Murdered Children) and you never want to belong to it.

To add:

Charles Reisinger's son - jr. murdered his wife not long ago (strangled her), just thought that was weird.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Let us know what you find. I know this sounds unreal, but it does happen and most of the time nobody hears about it. Tougher sentencing laws are in order

Charles Riesinger (Illinois)

Plea deals: A system of bargaining justice?
http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/illinois/article_a297695f-c70a-5d3f-914d-62ba0dfedd14.html

No More Victims Victim Interview
It begins around the 3:00 mark
No More Victims Victim Interview - YouTube

I will! Thank you! I am looking up something else at the moment, on the wax and the necklace and I have finals this week, but I have saved your post so I can go check it out! I live in Virginia. We don't let people off death row here without good reason. It happens very infrequently and in the history of our state we have only ever let one of those few leave the prison still breathing. I live in a very tough on crime state and we (myself and others excluded) are very proud of our death penalty and we protect it as if the world depended on it. We set up barriers to justice that even the Supreme Court can't seem to get over. I believe that whenever there is something that is overwhelming it should be looked at, regardless of how much money it costs when the ultimate punishment is being doled out. But I also believe that when someone is guilty there are an awful lot of technicalities that I don't agree with that sometimes happen and there are lots of people who would anger me if they walked...CFCA is a very good example. As long as the person's Constitutional rights have not been violated I see no reason for a lot of the things that I see happen.

 

[my2sense]

Well it's not up to the victim's family. It's the State, the Defense and the Judge. We don't even get to find out ANYTHING about the case until trial. Bet you didn't know that either. It's not like on TV.

It's a club (Parents of Murdered Children) and you never want to belong to it.

To add:

Charles Reisinger's son - jr. murdered his wife not long ago (strangled her), just thought that was weird.

You're right. I don't. And I am very sorry for anyone who has gone through it. I really can't imagine.
In the video, the woman said they asked her if it was acceptable, so I was only making the comparison between her story and the WM3. Again, I can't imagine the horror of losing a child, and then to be blocked from any input must be like being victimized all over again.
As to your P.S. That IS very strange (and scary)

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Sorry this is off topic, but another guy 2nd degree murder and got probation. True story. Makes me not surprised at anything anymore.

Here are the links to several of the stories about it. Johnny Pulley

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_8147b7e0-6a23-5cf9-ad89-92b16de29b45.html

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_3588322e-10c7-53eb-9b21-89a2128e5429.html

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_f058478e-9c09-5790-bae9-6c9c99caa32d.html

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_36ab1a15-46db-53dc-930c-30afd9d87046.html

 

[SmoothOperator]

Honestly there is no debunking to be done.. They all 3 were found guilty of the heinous murders
And those verdicts were upheld on Friday.. They will always be guilty because they are guilty..

As I originally stated my posts were not to change anyone's mind..Nor do I want to.. It is what it is..

 

[tambo]

Honestly there is no debunking to be done.. They all 3 were found guilty of the heinous murders
And those verdicts were upheld on Friday.. They will always be guilty because they are guilty..

As I originally stated my posts were not to change anyone's mind..Nor do I want to.. It is what it is..

I'm just curious, why do you think they let them go? I don't think it's money, or the courts time...that would be insane,, they are not just going to let people that they really think commited these horrible crimes out so easily,, you don't just get off of death row like that...it has to be something major that gets you off death row...there is no good behavior time etc....and i keep thinking back to what the judge says during the last 10 minutes. IMO they found something or this could not have happened...

eta, it was just strange how the judge was thanking the defense and the supporters for all of the time and effort and money they put into this...and yet he didn't really thank the prosecution..and said it was a tragedy for everyone...something happened, it had to have...i just hope that some day we will find out exactly what they found that led the defense to ask for this, and get them out within 4 day's...4DAYS wow...thats pretty quick to make such a huge, huge decision...

JMO

 

[porkchop]

This is important for people not understanding that the state had proof of guilt. Here is the plea video that Twall posted earlier. It's a 30 minute video, but you can bump it up to 9:20 and listen to the State's statement. The Prosecutor said that they have evidence that would convict all three.

Here is Twall's post
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August


In my opinion I think the State is running low on money. All three got new trials and were awaiting DNA evidence (yet to be announced). If the State had to do all three trials again (of course you know they are paying for both sides X3). One is a death penalty case to boot. Once they are convicted then all the appeals begin all over again and they have to pay for that too.

I believe that when the defense came to the Prosecutor with a plea offer they took it because of the money/time involved and with them already serving 18+ years (Arkansas has time off for good behavior) that they just let it go.

Now that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard regarding this. So what you are saying is that the State of Arkansas is so low on money that if people win their appeals for new trials they are just going to start releasing with time served instead of going to trial even though they are murders?

I think that sounds almost as ridiculous as saying that these three are guilty of this crime in the first place. After all if you say they are guilty you would have to believe that 3 teenaged boys, one of which was borderline retarded and had mental issues, managed to commit this crime and not only avoided leaving behind any of their own DNA, but somehow managed to leave other people's DNA behind.

 

[twall]

Here are a few links to articles on how the deal came to fruitation for those still wondering about the issue. HTH

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlaw...awyer-helped-free-the-west-memphis-three.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/20/earlyshow/saturday/main20094938.shtml

http://www.katv.com/story/15303501/wm3-defense-attorney-how-deal-happened

 

[SmoothOperator]

Sorry am via mobile but I have posted more than one post in this specific thread of what issues there are they led to Friday.. LE inexperience and bungling is the main reason and yes that's enough to have led to this plea.. But LE errors, bungling, bs does not in any way make guilty murders suddenly innocent.. That is not possible.. They are guilty of 9counts of murder of 3 8yo little boys..

 

[maxicut]

Has Echols even had access to Johnny Depp films for the past 18 years? How would he have learned to imitate Depp?

Nova, I'd like to know the answer to that. I don't get the feel Echols had movie night in solitary confinement.

 

[maxicut]

STATE OF ARKANSAS
BOARD OF CORRECTION AND COMMUNITY PUNISHMENT

SUBJECT: MERITORIOUS GOOD TIME

DEFINITIONS.
A. Meritorious Good Time - a reduction in an inmate's parole or transfer eligibility date
up to 30 days for each month incarcerated after imposition of sentence.

http://www.dcc.arkansas.gov/pdfs/policies/meritorious_ar.pdf

______________________________

A lady I know, her daughter was murdered and the guy went to prison for 1st degree murder and kidnapping and after 12 years he was granted a new trial on appeal. He plead guilty and was released due to the 'good time' sentencing provision.

So don't say it doesn't happen because it does.

Most people don't know that they only serve a portion of their sentences depending on the crime. In Missouri a life sentence is considered 30-years, if it's 2nd degree murder then they only have to serve 85%. If it's a lesser murder then it's even less.

So don't say it does not happen because it really does, you just never hear about it...

______________________________________________

Since this whole thing is about the death penalty (that's why antis celebs are involved), I will say this that right now there is only 40 people on death row and the last one to be executed was in 2005.

Death Row Arkansas
http://adc.arkansas.gov/inmates/Pages/deathRow.aspx

Executions
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/vie...xec_date&sort=desc&exec_name_1=&sex=All&state[0]=AR&sex_1=All&federal=All&foreigner=All&juvenile=All&volunteer=All

Your point is?
The West Memphis 3 were not released because of good time.
Release status was because of the Alford Plea if I'm reading correctly.

40 people on death row? Maybe in Ca. but only 40 in the US imo doesn't sound right.
mo